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Many believe the 9/11 terrorists were Iraqi
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Nonsuch
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:16 PM
 
A poll conducted a month ago for Knight-Ridder was mentioned in a Salon article today. I went looking for it, to see for myself. Here it is:

"As far as you know, how many of the September 11th terrorist hijackers were Iraqi citizens: most of them, some of them, just one, or none?"

Most of them: 21%
Some of them: 23%
Just one: 6%
None: 17%
Don't know: 33%


The correct answer, in case anyone has forgotten, is "None."

Link here (scroll down almost to the end of the page).

They must be slapping high-fives in the White House over this.
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.

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Lerkfish
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Nonsuch:
A poll conducted a month ago for Knight-Ridder was mentioned in a Salon article today. I went looking for it, to see for myself. Here it is:

"As far as you know, how many of the September 11th terrorist hijackers were Iraqi citizens: most of them, some of them, just one, or none?"

Most of them: 21%
Some of them: 23%
Just one: 6%
None: 17%
Don't know: 33%


The correct answer, in case anyone has forgotten, is "None."

Link here (scroll down almost to the end of the page).

They must be slapping high-fives in the White House over this.
IIRC, most were Saudi...can someone get the actual breakdown?
     
Eug
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:20 PM
 
Many believe the 9/11 terrorists were Iraqi
Many people are also stoopid.

That said, at least a third were honest as said they didn't know, which is quite a reasonable answer.
     
Zimphire
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:22 PM
 
Did they take this poll in Florida?
     
thunderous_funker
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:24 PM
 
Originally posted by Nonsuch:
They must be slapping high-fives in the White House over this.
Yep. If you keep shouting the same thing over and over and over on TV, eventually it becomes the Truth.

Politics in America is nothing more than a shallow marketing exercise these days.

Interesting enough, Terry Gilliam said something in an interview with The Onion that caught my eye and relates to this phenomenon.

The Onion: When The Onion A.V. Club last spoke to you, just as Fear And Loathing was coming out, you were asked how a book written in 1971 related to contemporary society. You said it brought perspective on a period when things were much simpler�when there were criminals in the White House and we were immersed in an unjust war. Does the current political situation make the film more or less relevant than it was five years ago?

Terry Gilliam: Well, the times have caught up with what I was talking about. It's very simple now. I don't know why people try to complicate it. There are criminals in the White House and there's possibly an unjust war about to be fought, so there you go. It's cyclical, you do begin to feel at a certain point. We were in the war [when Fear And Loathing was written], so it wasn't something that was being talked about, or that people were trying to find an excuse for going into. All that was past, and everybody had gotten wind of what was going on and began to realize how wrong it was. I'm not sure if enough people in America have gotten wind of what's about to happen now�and, if it does happen, whether it's right or wrong. That may be the only difference. But we certainly have criminals in the White House. These are even more successful than the last time. I mean, Nixon and company were kind of petty in their ambitions. These guys are ruthless beyond belief, and boy, are they pocketing a lot of money.
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Nonsuch  (op)
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Lerkfish:
IIRC, most were Saudi...can someone get the actual breakdown?
15 Saudi
2 from the United Arab Emirates
1 Egyptian
1 Lebanese
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.

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thunderous_funker
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Feb 6, 2003, 05:26 PM
 
double post and wrong data
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Millennium
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Feb 6, 2003, 08:42 PM
 
What's particularly interesting is that no one in the media has said anything about them being Iraqi. Even the Bush Administration, who could be seizing this opportunity to lie and build support among the gullible, has repeatedly said that they don't believe Iraq had any ties to the 9/11 incident.

So where the hell is this coming from, anyway? I mean, seriously. The media says they weren't Iraqi. The government says they weren't Iraqi. So who the hell is saying they were Iraqi?
( Last edited by Millennium; Feb 6, 2003 at 09:40 PM. )
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Feb 6, 2003, 08:51 PM
 
never underestimate the stupidity of the public
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finboy
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Feb 6, 2003, 09:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Did they take this poll in Florida?
Boo-yah.
     
thunderous_funker
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:05 PM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
What's particularly interesting is that no one in the media has said anything about them being Iraqi. Even the Bush Administration, who could be seizing this opportunity to lie and build support among the gullible, has repeatedly said that they don't believe Iraq had any ties to the 9/11 incident.

So where the hell is this coming from, anyway? I mean, seriously. The media says they weren't Iraqi. The government says they weren't Iraqi. So who the hell is saying they were Iraqi?
To quote Dale Gribble from King of the Hill: "I blame the media blamers."


I think it's a natural result of a sound byte culture. Americans are historically uninterested in foreign affairs and apathetic of politics. It's something that we do as an after thought and don't put much effort in.

That is why TV news has been so successful. The idea that everything you need to know about what's happening can be summed up in about 18 minutes (after commercials) of programming.

The facts get all muddled and obscured because it's just a series of flashy graphics, headlines and sound bytes.

9/11-->Osama Bin Laden-->Al'Queda-->Taliban-->Anthrax-->WMD-->Saddam Hussein-->Iraq and so and and so on

The facts become something we hear in passing or while channel surfing in between sitcoms.

So, it's not really the media (after all, they're just in the boredom killing business).
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
rampant
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:10 PM
 
Wow, horray for people who say retarded things.
     
voodoo
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:14 PM
 
I see it like this: most of the time the news mentioned that the terrorists were arabic or from the middle east. Naturally that could mean that some of them were Iraqi, right? If you are not paying much attention (and this happened almost 2 years ago... )
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
thunderous_funker
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:21 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
I see it like this: most of the time the news mentioned that the terrorists were arabic or from the middle east. Naturally that could mean that some of them were Iraqi, right? If you are not paying much attention (and this happened almost 2 years ago... )
Yeah, it all just gets muddled together in the minds of people that aren't really paying much attention to it in the first place.

Consider the last election. Most people were aware that it would probably determine whether or not we'd go to war with Iraq. It was on all the major media outlets. It was widely speculated that this would be a kind of referendum for the nation to speak on the topic of War.

Important, right? Serious stuff, right?

Less than 40% participation.

Lots of Americans really don't pay attention to this stuff. Sadly, this is the same demographic most likely to respond to polls.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
AKcrab
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:25 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Important, right? Serious stuff, right?

Less than 40% participation.
If 0% turnout occurred, we would still have George Bush. The problem is not the people, the problem is the system.
     
Millennium
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Feb 6, 2003, 11:38 PM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:
If 0% turnout occurred, we would still have George Bush. The problem is not the people, the problem is the system.
No, I'd say the problem is the people. As a nation, we're a pretty apathetic bunch. That's a cultural problem, not one with "the system" per se.
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zigzag
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Feb 7, 2003, 12:09 AM
 
It's just ignorance. I'm not aware of any campaign on the part of the administration to convince people that the terrorists were Iraqis. Nor do I blame the media - these people would probably be even more ignorant if they didn't see an occasional bit of news on TV. If the poll had asked about "Iranians" instead of Iraqis, you probably would've gotten the same results.

Watch Jay Leno's "Streetwalking" bit - the average person can't name the Vice President, much less identify the nationality of a bunch of Middle Eastern terrorists.
     
voodoo
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Feb 7, 2003, 12:10 AM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
It's just ignorance. I'm not aware of any campaign on the part of the administration to convince people that the terrorists were Iraqis. Nor do I blame the media - these people would probably be even more ignorant if they didn't see an occasional bit of news on TV. If the poll had asked about "Iranians" instead of Iraqis, you probably would've gotten the same results.

Watch Jay Leno's "Streetwalking" bit - the average person can't name the Vice President, much less identify the nationality of a bunch of Middle Eastern terrorists.
Yep. Zatt izzz vot vee agrreeee on.
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Feb 7, 2003, 12:46 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
What's particularly interesting is that no one in the media has said anything about them being Iraqi. Even the Bush Administration, who could be seizing this opportunity to lie and build support among the gullible, has repeatedly said that they don't believe Iraq had any ties to the 9/11 incident.

So where the hell is this coming from, anyway? I mean, seriously. The media says they weren't Iraqi. The government says they weren't Iraqi. So who the hell is saying they were Iraqi?
I have seen this recently:
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
voodoo
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Feb 7, 2003, 12:56 AM
 
Is Abu a common arabic name or what?
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undotwa
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Feb 7, 2003, 02:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
No, I'd say the problem is the people. As a nation, we're a pretty apathetic bunch. That's a cultural problem, not one with "the system" per se.
Compulsary voting is a good way to get people to give a damn.

It is also needed to get a TRUE representation of the population.
In vino veritas.
     
AKcrab
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Feb 7, 2003, 03:39 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
No, I'd say the problem is the people. As a nation, we're a pretty apathetic bunch. That's a cultural problem, not one with "the system" per se.
Not when we're talking about a presidential election. Might as well vote for Mickey Mouse.
I do take other votes seriously, but agree that the turnout for non-presidential elections is dismal. We are indeed an apathetic bunch, but I maintain it's significantly due to the system that's in place.
How exactly do we enact change again?
     
olePigeon
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Feb 7, 2003, 04:28 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
No, I'd say the problem is the people. As a nation, we're a pretty apathetic bunch. That's a cultural problem, not one with "the system" per se.
I'd say it's both. The general public is retarded for believing the crap that comes out of politician's asses, and the Electoral College has no f*cking business handling presidential campaigns. It's fine for electorates to congress, but not the damn president. Absolutely retarded system.
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thunderous_funker
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Feb 7, 2003, 02:30 PM
 
While I think it's a pretty natural phenomenon of ignorant culture that people get this confused about facts, I do think it's naive to consider that powerful interests aren't fully aware of this phenomenon and are all to willing to use it to their advantage.

I think the Bush PR team has been absolutely masterful at continuing to move the targets so that the general public (who make no effort) stops focusing on any one aspect of the War on Terror, but just have a general sense of things moving along, even if they are unresolved or utterly chaotic.

I was watching some C-SPAN coverage of town hall sessions and panel groups. I keep hearing people talk about getting Saddam before "he comes after us again"??????????

People respond to the beat, but pay no attention to the lyrics.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
xtal
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Feb 7, 2003, 04:08 PM
 
I'm disappointed in all of you. The connection is simple:



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SimeyTheLimey
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Feb 7, 2003, 04:11 PM
 
Originally posted by xtal:
I'm disappointed in all of you. The connection is simple:
Oh oh. Look out Quebec!
     
spacefreak
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Feb 7, 2003, 06:17 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Yep. If you keep shouting the same thing over and over and over on TV, eventually it becomes the Truth. Interesting enough, Terry Gilliam said something in an interview with The Onion that caught my eye and relates to this phenomenon.

To quote Dale Gribble from King of the Hill: "I blame the media blamers."
Anyone else here use 'The Onion' and 'King of the Hill' to support their positions?
     
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Feb 7, 2003, 06:17 PM
 
dp due to database problems
( Last edited by spacefreak; Feb 7, 2003 at 06:23 PM. )
     
spacefreak
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Feb 7, 2003, 06:18 PM
 
Originally posted by xtal:
I'm disappointed in all of you. The connection is simple:

That is hilarious!
     
thunderous_funker
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Feb 7, 2003, 06:19 PM
 
BWAAAAHAAAHAAAA!!

That is really priceless! Thanks for posting that!
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
derien
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Feb 7, 2003, 06:36 PM
 
Originally posted by xtal:
I'm disappointed in all of you. The connection is simple:
No wonder the Frogs are skeptical! Iraq is spelled "Irak" in French!
     
xtal
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Feb 7, 2003, 09:02 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
BWAAAAHAAAHAAAA!!

That is really priceless! Thanks for posting that!
No problem. I can't be the only one to wet myself over that one...


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Mulattabianca
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Feb 8, 2003, 02:07 PM
 
Before that was used as an excuse to start a war to Afghanistan. None of the terrorists were Afghans either.
::1 ::2 ::3 ::
     
NeoMac
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Feb 8, 2003, 02:33 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
Is Abu a common arabic name or what?
'Abu' means 'father of...'. It's a common prefix to surnames, which are often just first names. So, 'Abu Nidal' is just 'father of Nidal'.

BTW, if I remember correctly, the one 'Lebanese' terrorist is not Lebanese. He's a POS Palestenian from Southern Lebanon. They're not actually Lebanese.
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