[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Really? You want me to go through this again?

Because then I can have it sitting in a menu on my AppleTV where I can pull it up any time I want without having to mess with an optical disk. That's the simplest explanation, but if you really want I can give you more reasons.

So you'd rather trade quality for convenience? I'd rather just pop in the DVD itself. A few seconds on the menu system doesn't warrant bitching about the file meant for your iPod.

[starman]

``Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,''

That could mean the next 10 minutes.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

So you'd rather trade quality for convenience? I'd rather just pop in the DVD itself. A few seconds on the menu system doesn't warrant bitching about the file meant for your iPod.

Um, I don't want to trade anything for convenience. Which is why I'm not impressed by Fox's sub-DVD quality iTunes files. I can get 720p files from XBox Live. I'm hoping Apple upgrades iTunes for 720p... I'm not expecting a 720p iTunes file on a DVD, but I'd at least like it to be the same quality as the DVD itself.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Um, I don't want to trade anything for convenience. Which is why I'm not impressed by Fox's sub-DVD quality iTunes files. I can get 720p files from XBox Live. I'm hoping Apple upgrades iTunes for 720p... I'm not expecting a 720p iTunes file on a DVD, but I'd at least like it to be the same quality as the DVD itself.

AppleTV is a very lacklustre performer... at least compared to the iPod. It would make little sense to target AppleTV at this point over the iPod.

Furthermore, we're talking DVD here. A second copy with 720p video isn't going to be viable on DVD. On Blu-ray maybe, but so far this rumour is a DVD rumour.

[starman]

You don't get it. This isn't meant for you and you alone. Sure, you could get 720p from Xbox Live, but not everyone has Xbox Live. And, last time I checked, you can't transfer from XBL to your iPod anyway.

It's not a bad move and prevents piracy. I don't see why you have such a problem with it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

You don't get it. This isn't meant for you and you alone. Sure, you could get 720p from Xbox Live, but not everyone has Xbox Live. And, last time I checked, you can't transfer from XBL to your iPod anyway.

It's not a bad move and prevents piracy. I don't see why you have such a problem with it.

I'm not against it, but as you said, it's not for me.

It just doesn't solve the problem that managed copy did. So now I wait again for Macworld to see if Apple upgrades their video to 720p.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

AppleTV is a very lacklustre performer... at least compared to the iPod. It would make little sense to target AppleTV at this point over the iPod.

Furthermore, we're talking DVD here. A second copy with 720p video isn't going to be viable on DVD. On Blu-ray maybe, but so far this rumour is a DVD rumour.

Mac Rumors: Fox DVDs To Include iTunes Compatible Digital Copies?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

AppleTV is a very lacklustre performer... at least compared to the iPod. It would make little sense to target AppleTV at this point over the iPod.

Ideally, I'd like them to target both. iTunes files look even pretty awful on a small laptop screen.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Furthermore, we're talking DVD here. A second copy with 720p video isn't going to be viable on DVD. On Blu-ray maybe, but so far this rumour is a DVD rumour.

Right, and as I said, I'm not expected 720p on DVD, but I'd at least like the same quality as the DVD itself.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Mac Rumors: Fox DVDs To Include iTunes Compatible Digital Copies?

That's kind of what the last 20 posts have been about. Just a little.

[starman]

So you just want a second DVD-quality version specifically for your Apple TV?

That's not going to happen.

Ever.

Just rip it with Handbrake if you want.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

The Apple TV can't even do 5.1 audio properly (or DIVX without a hack) so just for that it is off the map for me.

The Xbox and Connect 360 plays divx files in 5.1 audio so it is cheaper and better.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Ideally, I'd like them to target both. iTunes files look even pretty awful on a small laptop screen.

Right, and as I said, I'm not expected 720p on DVD, but I'd at least like the same quality as the DVD itself.

That would probably take about 2.5ish Mbps, with a better H.264 profile. ie. It would be completely incompatible for the iPod, and it would take up far too much space. Not gonna happen.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

So back to Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD and not Apple downloads and DVD's...

[Eug]

HD VMD shipping soon

New Medium Enterprises used the backdrop of CES 2008 to announce that its HD VMD players would be shipping into the US market. Unlike Blu-ray and HD DVD, this format uses the old red-laser technology found in standard DVD to produce a high definition picture.

The player would be priced at $199 and would be available through Amazon, PCRush.com, and NMEStore.com. It would ship with two movies, Mother Ghost and Cutting Room.

Herein lies the problem for HD VMD. The format has no major studio support. Only SME Entertainment was listed as a partner, which said it would bring "rare and classic" films and television shows to HD VMD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

HD VMD shipping soon

New Medium Enterprises used the backdrop of CES 2008 to announce that its HD VMD players would be shipping into the US market. Unlike Blu-ray and HD DVD, this format uses the old red-laser technology found in standard DVD to produce a high definition picture..

This is going to do so ridiculously bad in the west it isn't even worth talking about.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

In 3-5 years he's right.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

When I talked about managed copy on HD-DVD I was crazy, but now that Bluray is talking about the same thing, it's the best thing since sliced bread? I see. No double standard here at all.

Actually I mentioned it because you always said BR didn't have managed copy and I said they did.

This PSP version on a BR disks is more than any HD-DVD ever did.

[starman]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

In 3-5 years he's right.

Eh. Maybe. There needs to be a major paradigm shift from physical to digital ownership and I'm not sure people are ready for that just yet.

[davidflas]

I picked up a Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player just before Christmas for $269 from Circuit City, and even on my older 720p capable Sony tube tv I noticed a huge increase in clarity and color fidelity over dvd. As for movies, I found the Blu-Ray sections of my local Circuit City and Target to be quite picked over, while there were plenty of HDDVDs on the shelves still. I rented some Blu-Rays from my local video store (Hollywood Video). A great way to enhance my movie watching so far, and it seems that I chose the correct format...

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

Eh. Maybe. There needs to be a major paradigm shift from physical to digital ownership and I'm not sure people are ready for that just yet.

I think it is going to be more about on demand renting rather than ownership.

[starman]

My problem with that is titles going out of print, or for whatever reason, the studios control what's available. No thanks.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

My problem with that is titles going out of print, or for whatever reason, the studios control what's available. No thanks.

Hey I am not big on it either but since I got my iPhone and my 360 serving Divx files to the TV I have found how fond I am of having all my TV shows in iTunes or on a hard drive that I can place on the iPhone or watch on my TV.

When I buy I DVD it takes a couple hours to rip and convert 1 movie for use on the iPhone plus I have to make different resolutions for each device.

I think Fox including encoded copies is a great idea. Saves us all a lot of time and trouble and ads value to a sinking market.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

In 3-5 years he's right.

What happens when I run out of hard drive space on my computer, DVR or Tivo? I'm already having problems with space on my DVR and can't afford the space to keep old movies if I want to record new shows. And I do like owning my movies (vs. having it on demand). I have a rather large library 200+ DVDs, 30+ Blu-rays and before digital distribution can ever hope to replace my physical library, I'll need a lot more storage than currently available.

And yes, storage is constantly gaining more capacity, but what happens to the device I already own with a lower capacity drive installed? At least with physical media, I don't have to depend on constantly upgrading hardware and only have to worry about paying for the title.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

What happens when I run out of hard drive space on my computer, DVR or Tivo? I'm already having problems with space on my DVR and can't afford the space to keep old movies if I want to record new shows. And I do like owning my movies (vs. having it on demand). I have a rather large library 200+ DVDs, 30+ Blu-rays and before digital distribution can ever hope to replace my physical library, I'll need a lot more storage than currently available.

And yes, storage is constantly gaining more capacity, but what happens to the device I already own with a lower capacity drive installed? At least with physical media, I don't have to depend on constantly upgrading hardware and only have to worry about paying for the title.

You just plug in another hard drive. At least that's how it works with my PVR. It works with external SATA drives.

The main problems for me regarding this are:

1) Crappy broadcast video.
2) Annoying commercials.
3) No extras (and definitely no PiP extras).
4) Limited selection at any one time.

[starman]

I just think that if it's going to be done digitally, it better be in the best interest of the consumer, not the studio.

It does raise an interesting point - if the studios do this, that means their ENTIRE library will be out for people. Now, let's say you're Disney. Disney notoriously puts movies in "the vault". How do they make a "vault"? Answer: the studio manages what you can and cannot watch. That scares me.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

Apparently the asylum is a popular place for people to hang out.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Actually I mentioned it because you always said BR didn't have managed copy and I said they did.

This PSP version on a BR disks is more than any HD-DVD ever did.

BR didn't have managed copy at launch, and HP managed to get it appended to the format. The issue is that if you go out and buy a disk today on Bluray, it doesn't support managed copy. You have to wait for the new 2.0 disks. This is an issue HD-DVD didn't have.

Regardless, with the competition gone, I think managed copy for BRD is dead.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

It does raise an interesting point - if the studios do this, that means their ENTIRE library will be out for people. Now, let's say you're Disney. Disney notoriously puts movies in "the vault". How do they make a "vault"? Answer: the studio manages what you can and cannot watch. That scares me.

Take a look at XBox Live. There are many "vaulted" Disney movies available in HD. You can't even get any of those vaulted movies on Bluray.

[Chongo]

Samsung Debuts Slimmed-Down Combo HD Player : Ben Patterson : Yahoo! Tech
Samsung Debuts Slimmed-Down Combo HD Player

Samsung has just announced its second-generation Blu-ray/HD DVD combo player, and it definitely has an edge on its predecessor in the style department. But here's a bigger question: How much will it cost?

The glossy, piano-black, and just 2.3 inch-high BD-UP5500 comes with most of the older UP-BD5000's features, including full support for Blu-ray and HD DVD interactive features, playback of Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD soundtracks, as well as the ability to upconvert standard DVDs to full-on 1080p. Also included is out-of-the-box support for Blu-ray profile 1.1 (which allows for picture-in-picture commentaries on newer Blu-ray discs), an Ethernet port for downloading new firmware and accessing online content, and HQV processing for enhancing HD and SD video.

Overall, not bad, but here's the spec we really want to know: how much? Unfortunately, Samsung isn't releasing pricing info just yet, but hopefully it'll be lower than the $799 sticker price for the BD-UP5000—especially given that the demand for combo HD decks may dwindle now that HD DVD appears to be on the ropes.

Look for the BD-UP5500 to arrive in stores in the second half of the year.

Update: Reports are coming in that the deck will retail for $599—still pricey, but a veritable bargain compared to the $799 BD-UP5000.

[Oversoul]

The BD-UP5500's been posted a few pages back.

It definitely is a sleek looking player, and I'd love to pick it up if we don't see some movement from Paramount or Universal by May. But with stories swirling that Paramount is looking to get out of their contract with HD DVD via a clause in their contract, and the possibility that Universal won't long follow, I'm afraid combo players are doomed to appeal only to consumers who already have a sizeable library of HD DVD titles. Even so, speculation has it that the 5500 won't have the Reon chip or 7.1 analog out -- a step down from the pricier 5000.

[ajprice]

Any report that uses the word 'veritable' is fine by me .

[goMac]

Samsung believes that HD-DVD has a long life ahead in the personal video editing market:
Interview: Samsung Says There's Life After Hollywood for HD DVD

Sounds logical to me. HD-DVD can even be burned by people with a standard DVD burner, meaning a potential wider audience in the home market.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

New Line Details Transition to Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

[Chongo]

Seagates take on the whole mess
Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

CNET.com > CES 2008
January 8, 2008 11:20 AM PST
Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war


LAS VEGAS--The winner in the Blu-ray and HD DVD war is the hard drive, according to Bill Watkins, CEO of Seagate Technology.

"People are saying Blu-ray won the war but who cares? The war is over physical distribution versus electrical distribution, and Blu-ray and HD lost that," he said during a breakfast meeting at the Consumer Electronics Show here this week. "In this, flash memory and hard drives are on the same side. The war is over and the physical guys lost."
Bill Watkins

Bill Watkins

(Credit: Seagate)

Watkins, naturally, speaks from personal interest, but he's got a point. (A former Army grunt and a decades-long Deadhead, Watkins is also one of the more entertaining CEOs in the technology industry to interview.) Consumers haven't been buying Blu-ray or HD DVD players and by the time they do, technology companies will likely be hawking sophisticated on-demand services and Internet Protocol TV. IPTV, in fact, is the dominant theme of the show. Sharp, Samsung, and Panasonic all unfurled content alliances that will let consumers look at headlines or videos from the Net on their TVs.

That's good news for Seagate, because electronic distribution means more hard drive sales. "If (data) is in the cloud I get more storage sales because you have to back up everything," he said.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Take a look at XBox Live. There are many "vaulted" Disney movies available in HD. You can't even get any of those vaulted movies on Bluray.

Seriously, dude.

Alice in Wonderland: Available until 3/31/2008

So, what were you saying?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Samsung believes that HD-DVD has a long life ahead in the personal video editing market:
Interview: Samsung Says There's Life After Hollywood for HD DVD

Sounds logical to me. HD-DVD can even be burned by people with a standard DVD burner, meaning a potential wider audience in the home market.

iDVD should have gotten this in version '08, considering that DVD Player already supports this. This must be mostly a marketing decision, because I'm thinking it wouldn't be that hard to implement it in iDVD.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Really? You want me to go through this again?

Because then I can have it sitting in a menu on my AppleTV where I can pull it up any time I want without having to mess with an optical disk. That's the simplest explanation, but if you really want I can give you more reasons.

All this talk about 'messing' with optical discs and 'fumbling' with DVDs is freaking me out. Are you like 80 or something? Putting in a disc is about the easiest thing I do all month. Maybe you just need a harder life.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

All this talk about 'messing' with optical discs and 'fumbling' with DVDs is freaking me out. Are you like 80 or something? Putting in a disc is about the easiest thing I do all month. Maybe you just need a harder life.

I suppose next you're going to call me lazy for using iTunes instead of audio cd's?

Seriously, I have a lot of tv series spanning multiple disks. On iTunes they're all there without me having to figure out which episode is on which disk. If I had bought those series on DVD (which I'd have to wait longer for), I'd have DVD's coming out of my ears.

Forgive me for just wanting technology to be convenient. :-\

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I suppose next you're going to call me lazy for using iTunes instead of audio cd's?

Seriously, I have a lot of tv series spanning multiple disks. On iTunes they're all there without me having to figure out which episode is on which disk. If I had bought those series on DVD (which I'd have to wait longer for), I'd have DVD's coming out of my ears.

Forgive me for just wanting technology to be convenient. :-\

Yeah, granted, but if I put all my DVD's on my hard drive, I'd be out of space in no time. And like I've pointed out before, you and I aren't the average users. I've got a Mac mini plugged into my TV, so I *could" watch TV shows from iTunes. Most people kind of want to watch TV from there, you know, TV and not their computer monitors. Considering the lackluster sales of Apple TV, that's not exactly going to give Apple the confidence to assume its users don't need optical drives anymore.

Honestly, how many voices have to tell you that they need discs before you'll accept that you're assuming too much from your own usage patterns? Are you just bored and looking to argue?

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Seagates take on the whole mess
Seagate CEO: Blu-ray won the battle but lost the war - CES 2008 - Consumer Electronics Show - CNET.com

I think he's right to the extent that Blu-Ray will probably never reach the market penetration of DVD's, but I'd also argue that it will be quite some time before direct downloads reach that level. I think the two will split the market until storage and bandwidth catch up to GoMac's imagination.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Take a look at XBox Live. There are many "vaulted" Disney movies available in HD. You can't even get any of those vaulted movies on Bluray.

Well, no, they're not vaulted, but I'm looking at Xbox Live so maybe you can explain something to me:

How do I know when a show is HD and what "HD" means? They've got Firefly listed in their marketplace...if they have Firefly in 1080, then I'll go buy an Xbox and sign up right now.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Yeah, granted, but if I put all my DVD's on my hard drive, I'd be out of space in no time.

It's an issue with my laptops 80 gig hard drive, but I have externals that I archive content onto. For example, all 3 seasons of BSG are currently archived on my Airport Express. I've got 3 seasons of The Office on my hard drive though.

I also sync entire shows to my iPod/iPhone. Currently again The Office seems to be the popular one. Usually I'll be at a party or something and someone will be talking about an episode of The Office, so we'll dock my iPod or iPhone to a TV and watch the episode. Much more convenient than hauling around a bunch of DVD's.

I think for your average consumer it's a problem Apple could easily solve. The AppleTV ships with 160 gig hard drive. The only problem is that Apple treats the AppleTV like an iPod. They really need to let you keep your content on just your AppleTV.

Regardless, I'll be ordering one of the new Mac Pros and filling it with drives. It won't be all for media, I'll be time machine backing up everything on the machine including all my media, and I may give Windows it's own drive.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

And like I've pointed out before, you and I aren't the average users. I've got a Mac mini plugged into my TV, so I *could" watch TV shows from iTunes. Most people kind of want to watch TV from there, you know, TV and not their computer monitors. Considering the lackluster sales of Apple TV, that's not exactly going to give Apple the confidence to assume its users don't need optical drives anymore.

The AppleTV doesn't sell because it's a crappily designed product, not because there is no interest in digital downloads. That's like saying that because no one bought the N-Gage that no one wants multimedia on their phones.

It's a bad implementation, and I'm hoping at MacWorld Apple cleans it up.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Honestly, how many voices have to tell you that they need discs before you'll accept that you're assuming too much from your own usage patterns? Are you just bored and looking to argue?

I think people think they need optical discs, but I don't think they actually do. A lot of people in this thread would insist that people also need 1080p content on discs with 7.1 (uncompressed of course) surround sound, and I don't buy that either.

Seriously, with an overwhelming majority of the U.S. on broadband, and content quickly becoming available across the web, people don't need optical discs.

[icruise]

The question isn't "do people absolutely need optical discs?" (Although I would argue that many do in fact need them.) The question is, "is there a compelling reason for getting rid of optical discs?" And I don't think there is -- not just yet. In the end you have to ask yourself if this isn't a solution in search of a problem. When Apple got rid of the floppy disk, it was clear that the floppy was an idea whose time had come and gone. It just wasn't fulfilling people's needs anymore. I don't think you can make that argument about optical discs -- especially when burning 25GB+ discs becomes commonplace.

For the record, it sounds like we do very similar things with regard to storing video content on our hard disks. I have literally thousands of movies and TV shows stored on several hard disks, and I have converted them all myself. I originally did it for viewing on the iPod, but I do stream them or watch them on my computer fairly often. I know that it's convenient to have them all available for you. But I also know there there are some pretty major hurdles that have to be overcome before that kind of thing can become mainstream. Ordinary people want something easy -- buy a disc containing a movie and put it in your player. Simple. They don't want to be having to buy extra hard disks, buy and configure streaming devices, back up their purchases (at least where iTunes is involved), or any of the other things that go along with using digital video.

And I must say that from the point of view of the consumer, movies on disc are probably the better deal. You are free to buy them anywhere you want (thus taking advantage of sales or other promotions) and you can sell them if you decide you don't like them. Neither of these things can be done with digital downloads. My big reservation about the HD formats is that there is currently no easy way to rip them for viewing on your computer or iPod, but if they adopt a solution similar to what we're seeing on that Family Guy disc, I'll be satisfied.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The question isn't "do people absolutely need optical discs?" (Although I would argue that many do in fact need them.) The question is, "is there a compelling reason for getting rid of optical discs?" And I don't think there is -- not just yet. In the end you have to ask yourself if this isn't a solution in search of a problem. When Apple got rid of the floppy disk, it was clear that the floppy was an idea whose time had come and gone.

Compelling? There wasn't exactly a compelling reason to get rid of the floppy either. I mean, it wasn't like it was hurting Apple by putting a floppy on the machine. Apple just decided that it was time to push their consumers on to the next big thing.

Originally Posted by icruise 

It just wasn't fulfilling people's needs anymore. I don't think you can make that argument about optical discs -- especially when burning 25GB+ discs becomes commonplace.

Honestly, I'm not sure burning 25 GB discs will be commonplace. Before anyone starts the 640k argument... We're in a position where image quality and video quality has become "good enough" for consumers. Is there really consumer demand for images higher than 6 megapixels? Is there really consumer demand for creating 2 hour long 1080p video clips? And for backups, I really feel like hard drives are the future. These are your average consumers we're talking about. They're not going to have much of a clue on how to find their iTunes library and burn it to an optical disk. Plugging in your hard drive and letting your computer back everything up for you? That's something a consumer can understand.

Originally Posted by icruise 

For the record, it sounds like we do very similar things with regard to storing video content on our hard disks. I have literally thousands of movies and TV shows stored on several hard disks, and I have converted them all myself. I originally did it for viewing on the iPod, but I do stream them or watch them on my computer fairly often. I know that it's convenient to have them all available for you. But I also know there there are some pretty major hurdles that have to be overcome before that kind of thing can become mainstream. Ordinary people want something easy -- buy a disc containing a movie and put it in your player. Simple. They don't want to be having to buy extra hard disks, buy and configure streaming devices, back up their purchases (at least where iTunes is involved), or any of the other things that go along with using digital video.

Right, and I don't expect a consumer to do these things. What I do see, however, is devices like TiVo and AppleTV which are dedicated media devices, and at least in the case of the AppleTV, absolutely waste their hard drive space. The AppleTV should be able to act just like a media server. It hosts the media and handles everything for the user, thus eliminating the need to add drives to your home computer and host there.

I think a device like the AppleTV that stored content locally, and could download content without relying on a computer would be very easy for your average consumer to understand. Obviously this isn't a technical hurdle, this is a implementation hurdle.

What really saddens me is Microsoft is somewhat ahead in this respect. They have the Windows Home Server, which is basically a server in a box, and the XBox 360, which is much more like what the AppleTV should be. Microsoft's problem is their devices don't talk to each other. Stuff downloaded on the 360 can't be used on your computer or your handheld. Stuff downloaded for the Zune can't be used on the 360. It would all be very confusing for your average consumer.

But yeah, I think a software update for the AppleTV could really improve the device. There's no problem with the actual hardware of the AppleTV.

Originally Posted by icruise 

And I must say that from the point of view of the consumer, movies on disc are probably the better deal. You are free to buy them anywhere you want (thus taking advantage of sales or other promotions) and you can sell them if you decide you don't like them. Neither of these things can be done with digital downloads. My big reservation about the HD formats is that there is currently no easy way to rip them for viewing on your computer or iPod, but if they adopt a solution similar to what we're seeing on that Family Guy disc, I'll be satisfied.

If the DRM issues are worked out, which I think they eventually will be, you'll have increased competition between the media stores. In addition, online distribution increases consumer choice. A brick and mortar store has limited shelf space, and can only offer a limited selection. Is Best Buy likely to stock many copies of Journeyman? Probably not. But to iTunes, there is no shelf space to worry about so they are free to make many more titles available. Despite Journeyman being cancelled and perhaps not even DVD bound, I can still download it on iTunes.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Compelling? There wasn't exactly a compelling reason to get rid of the floppy either. I mean, it wasn't like it was hurting Apple by putting a floppy on the machine. Apple just decided that it was time to push their consumers on to the next big thing.

You're kidding, right? The floppies were crap. They were unreliable, slow, and had low capacity. I hated them. EVERYONE hated them.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Ces08: Microsoft Will Consider Going Blu-Ray, If Consumers Demand

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

You're kidding, right? The floppies were crap. They were unreliable, slow, and had low capacity. I hated them. EVERYONE hated them.

And there was no compelling reason to get rid of them. In fact, there was a compelling reason to keep them. They were the only form of removable media that Apple included on machines standardly that was writable.

According to interviews with Steve Jobs, Apple never even intended to add a cd burner to the Mac either. The only reason they ended up adding a cd burner was because they decided to do an about face and go after the music industry, so they added a cd burner mostly for the purpose of burning audio cd's.

And yes, I'll pull the interviews. They're old, so I'm digging through Google for them now...

[starman]

There most definitely was a compelling reason to get rid of them. They were slow, unreliable and had low capacity.

[mrtew]

This thread has just become an excuse for the HDDVD and Blu-ray people to keep bickering over nothing now that the war is over. I motion that it be closed.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

You're kidding, right? The floppies were crap. They were unreliable, slow, and had low capacity. I hated them. EVERYONE hated them.

*GEEKS* hated them. Average consumers never even gave them a second thought. Hell, my mom used floppy discs up until about a year ago to back up her Microsoft Money file (when I forced her to use a flash drive).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Let's see, today I've used optical drives to burn photos onto a CD to take to Walgreens and to run a DVD.

To clarify this, I just saw a TV commercial for Walgreen's online photo submission/printing service. So yes, you can do this online.