Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > TV Serieseseseses

TV Serieseseseses (Page 5)
Thread Tools
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 9, 2014, 03:25 PM
 
It's the series Saul Goode, coming to A&E this winter.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 9, 2014, 10:06 PM
 
I'm always unexcited about spinoff shows. Almost none of them pan out. Saul was great in small doses and I have no desire for a full-on dose. I suppose we'll see.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 10, 2014, 03:30 AM
 

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Face Ache
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 10, 2014, 06:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
There will not be a third series of Utopia
Well that's slightly annoying.
     
boy8cookie
Mac Elite
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll let you know when I get there...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 10, 2014, 04:22 PM
 
Has anyone else watched Gotham? It's pretty good. My only gripe is the obviousness of the support characters so early on in the series. I guess it's for wider appeal.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 11, 2014, 05:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Has anyone else watched Gotham? It's pretty good. My only gripe is the obviousness of the support characters so early on in the series. I guess it's for wider appeal.
I've been watching but it pisses me off that they introduced about 90% of all Batman characters within the first episode. The only franchise worse than this is Star Wars which apparently CANNOT tell a story anywhere or any time in that universe without R2-D2 in it. And C-3PO, Chewbacca, Bobo Fett (or his relatives) and anyone else they can manage to make excuses enough to squeeze into the "plot".

When will people realise that the point of spin offs is to expand a universe that people love and want to see more of? Not yet another f****** rehash of everything we've all seen two dozen times already!
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
boy8cookie
Mac Elite
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll let you know when I get there...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 12, 2014, 04:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I've been watching but it pisses me off that they introduced about 90% of all Batman characters within the first episode. The only franchise worse than this is Star Wars which apparently CANNOT tell a story anywhere or any time in that universe without R2-D2 in it. And C-3PO, Chewbacca, Bobo Fett (or his relatives) and anyone else they can manage to make excuses enough to squeeze into the "plot".

When will people realise that the point of spin offs is to expand a universe that people love and want to see more of? Not yet another f****** rehash of everything we've all seen two dozen times already!
Pretty much what I was getting at, with slightly more rage.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 12, 2014, 09:23 AM
 
I've been working my way through The Practice on Hulu. Highly annoying that they decide to just leave out odd episodes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2014, 08:49 PM
 
Oh, The Practice, that was fun.

Season 8 is most fun. Alan Shore is a great character.

-t
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 16, 2014, 09:25 PM
 
I'm enjoying Gotham, but you're right, there's a little too many stories in the fire at once. I do like that it's more Jim Gordon's story than young Bruce, who frankly, would be boring if we focussed too much on his mopey self.

Donal Logue, guy playing Gordon's sleazy partner is awesome, I like him in everything, so it's odd to see him as a kind of bad guy. Well, not good guy. We shall see.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 17, 2014, 04:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Oh, The Practice, that was fun.

Season 8 is most fun. Alan Shore is a great character.

-t
Thats essentially why I'm watching it. Boston Legal is an all time favourite.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2014, 02:54 AM
 
Finished watching Breaking Bad. It really was a great show, and for me the ending was perfect. I'll watch something... shorter, next. Rather than another multi series marathon. Probably True Detective.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2014, 05:42 AM
 
True Detective was fantastic
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 26, 2014, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
True Detective was fantastic
Agreed. Matthew McConaughey's acting was great.

-t
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2014, 12:30 PM
 
Waded through the first two seasons of Sons of Anarchy over the past couple months, and likely will not go further. It's okay - many enjoyable moments. But it leans far too heavily on highly contrived plot situations and plot twists, and annoying episode-to-episode plot devices.

It really tries to straddle the line between the traditional episode-based TV show (where almost every episode has its own little stand-alone arc and there's a New Event, Characters React, Plot Twist, Solution, Ending), and the new long-form style where the overall plot and character arc blends pretty seamlessly between episodes. Because of this there's lots of seemingly pointless introduction and then disappearance of events or characters, just to create a bit of plot tension for one particular episode. And (at least by the end of S2) no one has yet to provide a decent explanation for why gangs seem to be interested in fighting over the shitty little town of Charming specifically.

Overall it got pretty tiring (exhausting, almost) by the end of the second season. I asked around and friends said that my complaints aren't really addressed in later seasons, and so I figured I would do what I didn't have the sense to do with Dexter, and drop it before I got too far in.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 27, 2014, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Agreed. Matthew McConaughey's acting was great.

-t
It seems like they want to make it their signature move to get an unexpected performance out of an underrated actor by throwing them in an unlikely role. I hear Colin Farrell is next up. Should be interesting.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2014, 08:55 AM
 
I don't know about that. Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Michelle Monaghan...? That's about as All-Star a cast as any TV show could hope for. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago McConaughey's performance might have been a surprise, but we found out a while ago that he actually has this range.

Well, Boardwalk Empire is finally over. See: my above comment about getting out while I still have the chance. What a beautiful but thoroughly mediocre show; it amazes me that to the last, the showrunners somehow thought that Nucky Thompson was actually why anyone was watching Boardwalk Empire. The least interesting character in the entire cast, and from beginning to end they refused to let any of the infinitely better supporting characters get some well-deserved attention. So puzzling...such a waste of time.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2014, 01:01 PM
 
Matthew McConaughey was excellent, especially the scenes where he's smoking and playing with beer cans.

Have to say that Mads Mikkelsen as Hannibal just blows me away as well.
     
Waragainstsleep
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2014, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I don't know about that. Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Michelle Monaghan...? That's about as All-Star a cast as any TV show could hope for. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago McConaughey's performance might have been a surprise, but we found out a while ago that he actually has this range.
I think I saw True Detective before Dallas Buyers Club. Until recently has had a somewhat lightweight reputation.

This is pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3eN9u5N2Q4
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 28, 2014, 02:47 PM
 
Naw, he got rightfully pigeonholed during his terrible aughts run, but it's like he flicked a switch as soon as the decade ended. Since 2010 everything he's done has been really solid.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2014, 12:35 PM
 
Netflix news - Black Mirror is on Netflix for all you Americans, all 6 of them. http://www.theverge.com/tldr/2014/12...eaming-netflix

It's been mentioned before, but it is good, very good. Go watch them Watch Black Mirror Online | Netflix

PS. They are also dark, very dark.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 03:35 AM
 
Finally on board with Breaking Bad (way late to the party, I know) and holy shit, what an amazing thing. :blink:
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 02:29 PM
 
Check out Black Mirror Christmas special too.....it was pretty good albeit a little derivative to an earlier episode I thought
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 02:32 PM
 
Does anybody watch Hell on Wheels? I'm on season 2, but since the pilot episode all I've felt is this is AMC's trying to create it's own Deadwood and failing miserably to have any of the things that made Deadwood great.
     
osiris
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Isle of Manhattan
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Finally on board with Breaking Bad (way late to the party, I know) and holy shit, what an amazing thing. :blink:
Did you watch the whole series yet? It's an amazing series imo
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
design219
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 05:15 PM
 
I really enjoyed Marco Polo on Netflix.

Watch Marco Polo Online | Netflix
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 8, 2015, 06:13 PM
 
The problem with Marco Polo is there's too little Marco Polo in it.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2015, 02:25 AM
 
I just tried the search for this and nothing came up, so I'm going to add Broadchurch to the list. I finished on the first series lastnight so that I could start on series 2 which started here this week. Murder investigation into a boy at a seaside town, David Tennant and Olivia Colman are in it. It's on US Netflix.

I haven't seen it but there is an American remake version called Gracepoint, with Tennant as the same character but with an American accent. Apparently its not as good as the original.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2015, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
I really enjoyed Marco Polo on Netflix.

Watch Marco Polo Online | Netflix
I...I...I can only say that in my humble opinion, Marco Polo is an utter mess of a thoroughly mediocre TV show.

But I'm really glad that you liked it!

Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
design219
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2015, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Marco Polo is an utter mess of a thoroughly mediocre TV show.
Are we talking about the same show? I guess it's a matter of opinion, to each their own.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2015, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by design219 View Post
Are we talking about the same show? I guess it's a matter of opinion, to each their own.
Hah - exactly. I personally found the show to be fairly polarizing - as in very critical viewers didn't like it at all, whereas friends who were casual viewers seemed to enjoy it. (As might be obvious from this thread, I`m in the former camp. )

That became particularly obvious after I looked up online reviews. Marco Polo was excoriated by "critics", but Joe Public seems to have enjoyed it. In fact on the Rotten Tomatoes page, I see that it has a brutal 27% critics score but a 93% audience rating.

I really think it was a terrible show - at least from the 5 or 6 episodes I watched before I couldn`t take it any longer. But obviously many people must have liked it.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
design219
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2015, 05:47 PM
 
I feel lesser now.
__________________________________________________

My stupid iPhone game: Nesen Probe, it's rather old, annoying and pointless, but it's free.
Was free. Now it's gone. Never to be seen again.
Off to join its brother and sister apps that could not
keep up with the ever updating iOS. RIP Nesen Probe.
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 17, 2015, 02:44 PM
 
How to Get Away With Murder
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 17, 2015, 06:14 PM
 
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Sense8! I was very skeptical at first, because the idea behind the serious sounded a bit odd, but after watching it, I think it's genius — pure, unadulterated genius. I watched it before I knew that the Wachoskys banded together with JMS, and after finding out JMS was involved, I was extremely happy. Especially for Netflix and its worldwide audience, the series is just such a great fit.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 17, 2015, 09:54 PM
 
Teen Wolf, because I can't help myself.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 17, 2015, 10:47 PM
 
True Detective season 2 was a hot disaster mess

I was completely wrong about Better Call Saul - it was really really good, although the last episode threw me for a bit of a loop

Mr. Robot! Yes so far!

Sense8.......I can't do it, I just can't give the Wachowskis another chance. They don't deserve it.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Sense8.......I can't do it, I just can't give the Wachowskis another chance. They don't deserve it.
The praise is coming from someone who loathed their last movie, Jupiter Ascending. Hated that thing. According to what I have read, JMS has prepared a 5-season story arc, and that's what is leaving me hopeful about the prospects of the series beyond season 1.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 07:12 AM
 
I mean.....there is no recorded history of anyone on earth actually liking Jupiter Ascending, so you're hardly unique there.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 07:28 AM
 
Is it salvageable if you go into it knowing its really garbage?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 07:55 AM
 
I mean.....every reviewer that I would trust seems to think that Sense8 is utterly and brilliantly insane in its ambition, and also utterly, completely terrible.

There are people who really like their approach to filmmaking. I personally think the original Matrix is the only movie they have ever made that could be characterized as something better than "good" (and it was truly great, however damaged by what came later); I consider every other project they have made to be "bad". So you may want to add salt appropriately given my objectively hater status.

Everything I have heard about Sense8 suggests it's their standard M.O, but even more insane. I fold!
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Doc HM
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 07:59 AM
 
Recently went back and re watched Dead Like Me on Netflix. My 16 year old daughter also loved it.
Have a go. Recommended.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I mean.....every reviewer that I would trust seems to think that Sense8 is utterly and brilliantly insane in its ambition, and also utterly, completely terrible.
Their Rotten Tomatoes score is 70 % with an audience score of 92 %, that's quite good I think (although I don't claim Rotten Tomatoes is the only meaningful measure of quality). The series takes 2-3 episodes until you can keep track of all the main characters (there are 10~12 of them, so that makes things harder on the audience initially), but I can tell you that I enjoy the series on multiple levels: Just the atmosphere and the conflicts (such as HIV and fake medication in Africa, being transgender, dealing with the loss of loved ones, alcoholism, violence, lavish Indian weddings, the role of women in South Korea) are worth it by themselves IMHO. Some tiny pieces which decorate the plot are just amazing, e. g. when one of the male characters experiences the period of another (female) character. It's still too early to tell whether the overarching story that delves into the background will make sense or not. The first season just focuses on the characters coming to grips with each others presences.
( Last edited by reader50; Aug 18, 2015 at 01:39 PM. Reason: fixed link close tag)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 01:42 PM
 
Another vote for Sense8. It's been renewed for a 2nd season, so we'll find out more next year.
     
Stogieman
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 04:28 PM
 
I'm really looking forward to this series. Halloween cannot come soon enough.



Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
abbaZaba
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 18, 2015, 06:54 PM
 
I am excited to see what Show Me A Hero will turn out to be. I've got the first two episodes to watch.

I've also been enjoying Mr Robot and Halt and Catch Fire.

The Brink is pretty good so far. The Strain is actually getting better; the first season, in fact the first couple episodes, it was pretty boilerplate but it has started to grow a bit.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 20, 2015, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Recently went back and re watched Dead Like Me on Netflix. My 16 year old daughter also loved it.
Have a go. Recommended.
I really think it would have been a better show if they had left Bryan Fuller in charge.
     
Doc HM
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 26, 2015, 04:00 AM
 
Possibly the single most un trendy, un nerdy. Un fashionable show in Netflix. BUT... just love Miss Fishers Murder Mysteries. Australian show set in 1920s Melbourne. Straightforward murder of the week but the characters are so brilliantly written and played by a cast that is just spot on. So not brain food but glorious TV.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
Stogieman
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2015, 04:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
I'm really looking forward to this series. Halloween cannot come soon enough.


First episode was ****ing awesome! Definitely good to have Ash back. Had some great laughs and some genuine creepy moments. Seems like they may be ignoring Army of Darkness, though, as Ash didn't mention the events from that movie when he was talking about his past.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2015, 08:21 AM
 
Just finished the 3rd season of Hannibal. Great series, great acting, and IMHO a great ending.

My wife described it to a friend the other night : Artistic Serial Killing.
     
ajprice
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2015, 09:57 AM
 
'The Man In The High Castle' on Amazon Prime. Based on a Philip K Dick book, set in 1960s America if Germany/Japan won WW2. 2 episodes so far, the rest of the series is released later this month. Good stuff so far.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,