Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Reasons Why McCain Deserves the Republican Nomination

Reasons Why McCain Deserves the Republican Nomination (Page 10)
Thread Tools
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Paper has its place.

It is a human-readable format that can be preserved for centuries, and it requires no fancy mechanisms to be preserved in order to maintain that preservation.

Where will your websites, podcasts, radio, and television shows be in 500 years?

Currently, you've got to maintain spinning magnetic storage media to store anything of volume.
The life of a hard drive is about 3-5 years. The life of a recordable optical disc is about 10 years. The life of a pressed disc is about 20. Even flash drives can suffer bit rot where the data will dissipate if not regularly supplied voltage.

Yet, we've got Lorenzo de Medici's library after all this time.

Maybe the quality of news you get via radio, phone, and podcast are better. I'll grant you that when it comes to the NYT.

But in terms of being a medium that provides a record we can consult centuries into the future, paper is it.

I have 8" floppy diskettes. Where can I read them today? I have a collection of 5.25" drives solely for reading from that media and moving forward to newer media.

Jim's Computer Garage (museum) - Services available from The Computer Garage has set up a small computer museum and offers data recovery services off of antiquated media, like punchcards and punchtape.

Newspaper is simply the superior delivery medium.
Why can't we just keep an archive copy on paper or microfiche? (As opposed to canvasing the country with largely unread papers.)
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I don't figure I have to name one — you just named three for me.

Phone: What? Even people who care about the news are not going to read a full story on a freakin' RAZR.
Radio: Audio-based and strictly linear access starting at a random point.
Podcast: Audio-based and more or less linear access.

Also, two of these use only "pull" distribution models — you have to actively seek them out. None of these are a suitable replacement for a newspaper. Some other things that are not currently suitable replacements for a newspaper: weblogs, television (if you've ever seen TV news, you know this) and email.

I wish there were a good replacement for newspaper, because newspapers are dying, but there isn't any.
We'll have to disagree on a number of things here.
Also: Newspapers are still a "pull" model. You have to go and get them from the street and then find an interesting article in it. That's actively seeking them. Same with TV news such as CNN, you still need to turn on the set. Many people DO read the news on their phones, blackberry's, kindles, etc.

In the end though you've helped me prove my point: As you said: Newspapers ARE dying. Why? Because many people find them obsolete.
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 01:32 PM
 
Kindle?

You named Kindle?

Seriously?

Kindle is never going to succeed in its current form.

Kindle requires DRM. DRM destroys value - it makes things do less and cost more, and means they will break suddenly without warning when the service inevitably goes bust.

When someone buys a book, they are also buying the right to resell that book, to loan it out, or to even give it away if they want. Everyone understands this.

Jeff Bezos, Open letter to Author’s Guild, 2002

You may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.

Amazon, Kindle Terms of Service, 2007

As you may have read in the newspapers over the past few days, we’ve been criticized by the leadership of a small, but vocal organization because we sell used books on our website. This group (which, by the way, is the same organization that from time to time has advocated charging public libraries royalties on books they loan out) claims that we’re damaging the book industry and authors by offering used books to our customers.

Jeff Bezos, Open letter to Author’s Guild

Libraries, though, have developed lending procedures for previous versions of e-books — like the tape in “Mission: Impossible,” they evaporate after the loan period — and Bezos says that he’s open to the idea of eventually doing that with the Kindle.

Newsweek, The Future of Reading

Act V: The act of remembering

Another possible change: with connected books, the tether between the author and the book is still active after purchase. Errata can be corrected instantly. Updates, no problem.

Newsweek, The Future of Reading

Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. In this way every prediction made by the Party could be shown by documentary evidence to have been correct; nor was any item of news, or any expression of opinion, which conflicted with the needs of the moment, ever allowed to remain on record. All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary.

George Orwell, “1984″, Book One, Chapter 3

Act VI: The act of learning

If they can somehow strike a deal with textbook publishers, I could see a lot of college students switching to this. Get rid of all your text books and have this single electronic device.

Ankit Gupta

School policy was that any interference with their means of monitoring students’ computer use was grounds for disciplinary action. It didn’t matter whether you did anything harmful — the offense was making it hard for the administrators to check on you. They assumed this meant you were doing something else forbidden, and they did not need to know what it was.

Students were not usually expelled for this — not directly. Instead they were banned from the school computer systems, and would inevitably fail all their classes.

Richard Stallman, The Right to Read

Your rights under this Agreement will automatically terminate without notice from Amazon if you fail to comply with any term of this Agreement. In case of such termination, you must cease all use of the Software and Amazon may immediately revoke your access to the Service or to Digital Content without notice to you and without refund of any fees.

Amazon, Kindle Terms of Service

-----

from Mark Pilgrim's The Future of Reading (A Play in Six Acts) [dive into mark]

All of these illustrate why paper is so good - it can't be altered after the fact, it doesn't have terms of service about who may and may not read, it can be sold and resold, lent, borrowed, and stored without evaporating against the owner's will.

Oh, and CRASH, when you move a medium out of its original context, including store it on a different medium than it originally shipped on, especially a read-writeable format, you destroy it's archeological value in part, because you're damaging the authenticity and verifiability.
     
jokell82
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 02:11 PM
 
This is a very interesting discussion on McCain's Republican nomination.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Also: Newspapers are still a "pull" model. You have to go and get them from the street and then find an interesting article in it.
Not exactly. You can see a newspaper sitting there on a rack as you walk by without any effort on your part. If I put a big "NINE PAGES OF 'HEROES' coverage inside!" in the corner and you're a fan of Heroes, you'll know that this paper is relevant to your interests without ever touching it. I often give newspapers a hard time for having such terrible covers, because they're totally failing to take advantage of their "push" distribution model. This is why tabloids and magazines are hit less hard than newspapers.

Originally Posted by driven View Post
Many people DO read the news on their phones, blackberry's, kindles, etc.
I haven't seen any numbers to back this up. As far as I can tell, a few people read the news on these devices, and few even own Kindles.

Originally Posted by driven View Post
In the end though you've helped me prove my point: As you said: Newspapers ARE dying. Why? Because many people find them obsolete.
If your point is that people aren't generally interested in newspapers anymore, I agree. I thought you were trying to say there's an actual replacement for newspapers out there, rather than that people are just abandoning them in favor of nothing.

Like I said, I wish there were a suitable replacement. It sucks to be part of a dying industry. If I could say, "Well, X is obviously the modern version of a newspaper," I would jump ship to X in a heartbeat. But I haven't found any such thing.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 02:32 PM
 
Not a replacement for newspapers per se ... but different ways of getting the news.

Kindle - Not for books, but as a portable web-browser .. just meant it as another device.

Books (paper ones) aren't going away ...
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 24, 2008, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Kindle is never going to succeed in its current form.

Kindle requires DRM. DRM destroys value - it makes things do less and cost more, and means they will break suddenly without warning when the service inevitably goes bust.
You can transfer non-DRM material to Kindle, it'll read anything copied to it in Mobipocket, HTML, Word, or plain text formats. Plus, converting just about anything (including PDFs) to Mobipocket is pretty easy, and the software is free. I wish Kindle had native support for PDF, but other than that it seems like a decent product.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
 
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:19 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,