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lexapro · Dec 23, 2009, 03:10 PM

I have a question about airport security and cops. The other day I was flying and I noticed that beside the TSA officers, there was a group of local city copy, the county cops, a few state troopers and then a group that had "DHS POLICE" on their shirts. Later in the gate area I saw armed Border and Customers Agents.

None of them seem to be on joint patrol with each other. They all seemed to be independent of each other and doing their own thing.

Why so many? Why not just have the TSA patrol the airport? I don't get it.

turtle777 · Dec 23, 2009, 03:44 PM

Maybe TSA doesn't have enough resources to cover the spike in security needs for the Christmas holidays.

-t

iMOTOR · Dec 23, 2009, 03:54 PM

They must have been having an open house. You normally would not see city, county, and state at the same place unless there was some kind of tragedy. Usually, the sworn peace officers working at an airport either belong to the city police department or the port authority police.

The Final Dakar · Dec 23, 2009, 03:56 PM

Obviously it's a bunch of undercover terrorists.

imitchellg5 · Dec 23, 2009, 08:38 PM

TSA doesn't cover security besides the checkpoints and immigration. Everything else is contracted out.

ghporter · Dec 23, 2009, 09:05 PM

Multiple jurisdictions overlap at a lot of airports. Overlapping jurisdiction does not mean that the different groups of officers patrol together, only that their organizations cooperate and cover the same physical territory.

In Austin, TX, there are Austin PD, Travis Co. Sheriff, Texas State Troopers, Texas Rangers, Border Patrol, DHS, and Federal Police, all with overlapping (though not all the same spaces) jurisdictions. Not to mention an FBI office. It gets pretty interesting when something happens that "interests" different law enforcement organizations.

But imitchellg5 is right about TSA-their whole job is manning the physical security apparatus at the gates. DHS Police are the uniformed officers for enforcement that work with TSA.

Rumor · Dec 23, 2009, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Multiple jurisdictions overlap at a lot of airports. Overlapping jurisdiction does not mean that the different groups of officers patrol together, only that their organizations cooperate and cover the same physical territory.

In Austin, TX, there are Austin PD, Travis Co. Sheriff, Texas State Troopers, Texas Rangers, Border Patrol, DHS, and Federal Police, all with overlapping (though not all the same spaces) jurisdictions. Not to mention an FBI office. It gets pretty interesting when something happens that "interests" different law enforcement organizations.

But imitchellg5 is right about TSA-their whole job is manning the physical security apparatus at the gates. DHS Police are the uniformed officers for enforcement that work with TSA.

Off topic: What is the difference between Troopers and Rangers? Aren't they both "State" police like CHP?

lexapro · Dec 24, 2009, 02:53 AM

State Trooper vs State Ranger vs State Marshall vs State <fill in blank>

ghporter · Dec 24, 2009, 10:50 AM

The Texas Rangers are a law enforcement agency that is separate from our Department of Public Safety in mission, though they fall under DPS administratively. While State Troopers act as uniformed officers statewide, the Rangers act as investigative officers. Kind of like the difference between uniformed officers and high-level detectives. The two came about from different sources-see Wikipedia-but they cooperate.

NOBODY is like CHP. Even CHP isn't like what most people think of it, given Broderick Crawford and Eric Estrada's attempts to capitalize on the organization...

Marshals are either Federal Marshals with commissions from the federal government, or state/local LEOs. In a lot of places, including Texas, most marshals manage things like courtroom security rather than daily police activities.

Yeah, it gets complicated.

lexapro · Dec 24, 2009, 07:22 PM

How can I become a Texas Ranger? Or a Federal Marshall?

ghporter · Dec 24, 2009, 07:26 PM

They both have web sites that include links for recruiting. But I do not know if either Texas DPS or Rangers still have their minimum height requirements-they seem to all be 6'4" tall...

mduell · Dec 24, 2009, 08:15 PM

TSA Agents, despite their shiny badges, aren't cops. They can't arrest you, they don't carry weapons, etc. DHS Police are actual cops with real power.

lexapro · Dec 25, 2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

TSA Agents, despite their shiny badges, aren't cops. They can't arrest you, they don't carry weapons, etc. DHS Police are actual cops with real power.

Don't their badges say "officer"? why don't they have guns?

turtle777 · Dec 25, 2009, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by lexapro

Don't their badges say "officer"? why don't they have guns?

They are the mall cops of the airports.

-t

downinflames68 · Dec 25, 2009, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by lexapro

I have a question about airport security and cops. The other day I was flying and I noticed that beside the TSA officers, there was a group of local city copy, the county cops, a few state troopers and then a group that had "DHS POLICE" on their shirts. Later in the gate area I saw armed Border and Customers Agents.

This sounds like a setup to a pretty good joke.

lexapro · Dec 25, 2009, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

They are the mall cops of the airports.

-t

Do they have the power to arrest people? What is their mandate? Under what law do they operate? What law gives them the right to search my bags and look up my skirt?

tightsocks · Dec 25, 2009, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by lexapro

What is their mandate?

To protect the economic interests of the airline industry by means of security theatre designed to make the public feel safe enough so that they will purchase airline tickets.

imitchellg5 · Dec 25, 2009, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by tightsocks

To protect the economic interests of the airline industry by means of security theatre designed to make the public feel safe enough so that they will purchase airline tickets.

Really? How did you arrive at this? I'm sorry, but that is not the way that it works. Do you seriously believe that the security measures currently in place HELP the airline industry out economically? Because you are COMPLETELY wrong and off-base. Since September 2001, the airline industry has constantly been degraded due partly to security; more security measures complicate this immensely, almost as much as high fuel prices. I really REALLY hope you were being sarcastic.

RAILhead · Dec 26, 2009, 02:13 AM

It's a vast, right-wing conspiracy and they are taking away your rights and freedoms. That's why they're there.

iMOTOR · Dec 26, 2009, 02:55 AM

I believe it is security theatre, but I also know there are enough people out there that feel safer because they have to take their shoes off.

turtle777 · Dec 26, 2009, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by iMOTOR

but I also know there are enough people out there that feel safer because they have to take their shoes off.

-t

Dork. · Dec 26, 2009, 06:02 PM

It's about to get a lot worse, thanks to that dude who tried to blow up a plane going to Detroit.

turtle777 · Dec 26, 2009, 06:19 PM

I know, it's depressing to go to Detroit, but damn...

-t

ghporter · Dec 26, 2009, 10:51 PM

Only in...Oh wait, he boarded/changed planes in Amsterdam... Hmmmm...

Anyway, I generally like going to DTW, though I seldom actually go to Detroit. I grew up Downriver and still have family there.

imitchellg5 · Dec 27, 2009, 01:28 AM

Amsterdam's immigration control is a joke.

colourfastt · Dec 29, 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

They are the mall cops of the airports.

-t

The really are the mall cops of the airports. Until the creation of Thousands Standing Around and the Department of Fatherland Insecurity they were minimum wage workers. Once they were hired by TSA (TSA just took these minimum workers and bought out the contracts from the private companies) they went from minimum wage to 13 to 16 dollars per hour.

lexapro · Dec 30, 2009, 03:31 AM

16/hr for standing around doing nothing? sign me up!

what is the upward mobility in the TSA? do people make a career out of it?

ghporter · Dec 30, 2009, 08:44 AM

I would hardly call what TSA gate people do "doing nothing." They do some serious crowd control, they have a number of (obviously extremely bizarre and inscrutable) protocols to implement, such as selecting individuals for more advanced screening (TSA rules, not the agents, decide that it's the granny ahead of you, or the Sikh guy behind you that get the extra attention), and so on. Plus, if there actually IS a whacko in the line, they're the first responders-and targets. Not worth $16/hr to me! I'd rather be an armed security guard and be able to shoot back, thanks so much.

The Final Dakar · Dec 30, 2009, 10:34 AM

They should at least get to carry tazers.

Big Mac · Jan 1, 2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by lexapro

what is the upward mobility in the TSA? do people make a career out of it?

I don't think anyone makes a long term career out of it. A friend of mine from college started working at LAX around 2005, I think, and transitioned not long after that to a position at ICE.

finboy · Jan 1, 2010, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I don't think anyone makes a long term career out of it.

Oh but they do. That's the trouble. It's gone from being retired LEOs and ex-military to being a bunch of "professional" transportation cops -- they've got specialized training, and certifications, and special degrees (even MASTERS degrees) and continuing professional ed, all of it these days. And they can hire whoever they want to, and define competence however they want to, because the ex-cops and retirees have been disgusted out of it.

SCARY, because there's NOTHING THERE. It's not a profession, with it's own knowledge-base other than what LEOs already study, or not much of one at least. This is a pseudoprofessionalization like the Federal & state "corrections officers" went through back in the 70s. Has efficacy changed with all of this? Nope, that's how we know it's bogus.

The "mall cop" or "rentacop" analogy isn't lost here.

Laminar · Jan 1, 2010, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

They should at least get to carry tazers.

Giving tasers to bored people with too much power? YouTube wishes.

Laminar · Jan 1, 2010, 10:52 PM

Mouseover text:

A laptop battery contains roughly the stored energy of a hand grenade, and if I shorted it ... hey! You can't arrest me if I prove your rules inconsistent.

maxx9photo · 10:11 AM

My wife works at the airport, so pretty much the airport is run by the city. The city delegates their local police officers/county sheriffs and city public safety officers (non Cops) to secure the entire area/vicinity. The TSA, Border/custom patrol is under DHS (federal), they usually work everything related with the passengers/visitors of the airport.

ctt1wbw · Jan 7, 2010, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

TSA doesn't cover security besides the checkpoints and immigration. Everything else is contracted out.

TSA needs to contract out intelligence and competence, that's for sure. Cuz they gots neither.

andi*pandi · Jan 7, 2010, 03:03 PM

The bees are terrorists:

Honey leaves travelers stuck at airport for hours - CNN.com

Note that this was in checked baggage not a carryon.