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timmerk · Oct 17, 2005, 09:37 PM

I'm growing tired of BBEdit 8's slowness and oldness. I think they should use a Cocoa UI, even if they keep their Carbon backend. I am really hoping for a complete rewrite. BBEdit used to be the de facto for coding back in the OS 9 and before days.

Although SubEthaEdit bugs me in many ways, I think I am switching tonight until BBEdit 9 comes out (if it's even any good.)

As for SEEdit, the main thing that bugs me is how the file gets syntax colored *after* the file is open. Very unprofessional looking when they do that. I understand that they could do it before, but then the file would take longer to open. That's fine. I am not going to code before the syntax colorer has colored anyways.

Anyways, this is not a flame post, just posting my opinions in case Bare Bones is listening. I've emailed a lot of feedback, but it never gets me anywhere. Maybe if other users had the same thoughts on the subject as I did, Bare Bones would listen.

Mithras · Oct 17, 2005, 11:10 PM

TextMate. Never looked back.

CharlesS · Oct 18, 2005, 12:51 AM

BBEdit is seriously one of the best Carbon apps out there. It implements more Cocoa features than any other Carbon app I've seen.

timmerk · Oct 18, 2005, 02:24 AM

Mithras: Thanks! I am trying it out, and it looks great, except I keep getting UI artifacts on the doc when I resize the window horz. Do you get that as well?

CharlesS: It maybe be one of the best Carbon apps out there, but I guess that just doesn't cut it anymore. Who knows, I think Carbon is fine, but I just think their code base is so old. Lots of BBEdit is from System 6/7 days it seems. Even a rewrite in Carbon would be fine with me.

CharlesS · Oct 18, 2005, 03:57 AM

I dunno, I only use TextWrangler rather than the full BBEdit, but I really like it. Different strokes, I guess...

I was David B. · Oct 18, 2005, 04:31 AM

I also like BBEdit. I bought a licence for version 6 and updated recently to 8.

At work I am forced to work with linux from time to time. Just do that and you will stop complaining about cosmetics. On the mac platform we still have outstanding texteditors. Some are free, so just use them and find the best for you.

For me BBEdit only has a problem with its preferences. It is very hard to find an item in the mess of pref panes.

Gee4orce · Oct 18, 2005, 04:53 AM

The function name dropdown is an absolute lifesaver in BBEdit for me, having to maintain source code with hundreds of functions in it. Until TextMate gets something like that, I'm sticking with BBEdit. I know TextMate has a function list, but it's not sorted...which makes it kind of useless.

But yeah, TextMate is looking like becoming an awesome editor.

Mac Write · Oct 18, 2005, 10:54 PM

I want to see the preferneces updated to look like the System and other app preference panes. The current looks is so OS 8. Would be nice to see a GUI over-haul to make it more OS X like. like the + and - for adding FTP sites and stuff.

DeathMan · Oct 19, 2005, 11:53 PM

I'm a long time BBEdit user, but I'm being won over by TextMate. It is freaking awesome. I would like a function dropdown, though. I can't even find the function list.

OreoCookie · Oct 20, 2005, 04:15 AM

How about SubEthaEdit as an alternative?

I'll give TextMate a try, if it is any good for thousands of line of LaTeX … I might actually be interested in buying. If not, I'll stick to TeXShop.

deuce868 · Oct 20, 2005, 07:35 AM

I currently use Zend for php editing and I was wondering if any of these will add functions and classes you create to the auto-completion list like Zend?

osxrules · Oct 20, 2005, 04:53 PM

I use a mixture of BBedit, Smultron ( http://smultron.sourceforge.net/ ), textedit and XCode.

BBedit I use for web pages, Smultron I use for Python and Renderman files, textedit for quick editing of plain text files and XCode for C, C++, Java, Objective-C coding.

tooki · Oct 20, 2005, 06:33 PM

I feel the TextWrangler love! Barebones just makes awesome text editors. (No performance problems here.)

tooki

madmacgames · Oct 20, 2005, 07:57 PM

TextMate has some cool gimicks and tricks, but it quickly becomes annoying for any long term use.

If BBEdit is slow for you, perhaps you have bigger issues and bigger fish to fry than finding a "fast" code editor.

timmerk · Oct 21, 2005, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by madmacgames

TextMate has some cool gimicks and tricks, but it quickly becomes annoying for any long term use.

If BBEdit is slow for you, perhaps you have bigger issues and bigger fish to fry than finding a "fast" code editor.

I have a 1Ghz G4 Powerbook with 1 GB of RAM, running 10.4. Even after a restart, with no apps, BBEdit still is very slow. I have no system hacks or other running things in the background. All other apps that do way more are faster. So I don't know what's going on.

DeathMan · Oct 21, 2005, 09:35 PM

I'm pretty sure BBEdit is known as the fastest Bi-atch out there. Textwranger too since its probably the same engine.

I don't work with huge files, and since Ruby on Rails is my new addiction, Textmate is my new honey.

jmiddel · Oct 22, 2005, 05:16 PM

I use BBEdit 7.1.4 with OS 3.9 and it is fast, more than Word or even InDesign. I heard that v8 had some problems, but you can always use v7, awesome.

timmerk · Oct 23, 2005, 02:12 AM

Well, I found a better Carbon app then BBEdit (not same type of app though) - Interarchy. It is must more OS X like then BBEdit.

Anyways, I hope TextMate has some quick development, because I am liking it!

Bwa · Oct 24, 2005, 12:40 AM

Things missing in BBEdit (as far as I can tell, please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. No preference to always keep line numbers on.

2. Poor XCode integration. No way to set a breakpoint from the editor. I use GDB manually.

3. Poor colorization compared to vim or CodeWarrior (the king of colored code).

These are all very important to me, but with CodeWarrior going away, BBEdit is as close as I can get to the old CW UI.

Bwa · Oct 24, 2005, 12:54 AM

TextMate is *very* interesting.

It doesn't highlight enough of the C/C++ syntax, though it looks like it exposes the grammar in 'Edit languages...'. The 'Find' command seems a bit buggy.

As someone else mentioned, I couldn't find a function drop down menu either. Ideally it would sit at the top of the window. Other wish list items:

1. A preference to show the full path of a file.

2. Perforce integration.

3. XCode integration.

These problems aside, I'm going to spend the next few days playing with this. Thanks for the link folks.

hyperizer · Oct 25, 2005, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bwa

Things missing in BBEdit (as far as I can tell, please correct me if I'm wrong):

1. No preference to always keep line numbers on.

2. Poor XCode integration. No way to set a breakpoint from the editor. I use GDB manually.

3. Poor colorization compared to vim or CodeWarrior (the king of colored code).

These are all very important to me, but with CodeWarrior going away, BBEdit is as close as I can get to the old CW UI.

1. Preferences: Text Status Display: Show Line Numbers.
2. Dunno. Maybe AppleScript? Try Bare Bones support or the mailing list!
3. It's all customizable with Language Modules.

hyperizer · Oct 25, 2005, 04:17 PM

No performance problems here with BBEdit 8.2.3 on a 1.25 Ghz Tibook running Panther. I did disable Plug-Ins, the Text Factories menu, the Documents Drawer, Coding Tools, and some other stuff I don't use, though.

inkhead · Oct 26, 2005, 12:30 AM

textmate is way to beta, it can't even wrap text properly.

Isn't their anything that intergrates with SFTP properly? I mean all files i edit are on the server, skedit is slow.. textmate = slow, and hackish.

jocker · Oct 26, 2005, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by inkhead

Isn't their anything that intergrates with SFTP properly?

I use a combination of Interarchy (SFTP client) and BBEdit... With Interarchy, you can specify which editor you'd like to use. So its a simple matter of finding the file on the server using Interarchy (very fast for browsing SFTP/FTP shares etc), double clicking it, it opens in BBEdit automatically, and when you save in BBEdit, it automatically saves it back to the server.

You can use any editor with Interarchy, I've tested it with SubEthaEdit, Textedit, BBEdit, Textmate (I don't know why but I really find this app too 'busy').

MYself, I'd only ever use BBEdit or SubEthaEdit. If SubEthaEdit had decent document handling abilities (Tabs or a Document Drawer) I'd use it over BBEdit. Oh and the BBEdit Search and Replace.

Ah who am I kidding. BBEdit is king!! Shame about the syntax colourisation though, two colours - (not including black or white) - what gives!!

Paco Loco · Oct 26, 2005, 11:32 AM

Has anyone had any experience using Tag yet?

www.talacia.com/products/tag

CharlesS · Oct 26, 2005, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by jocker

I use a combination of Interarchy (SFTP client) and BBEdit... With Interarchy, you can specify which editor you'd like to use. So its a simple matter of finding the file on the server using Interarchy (very fast for browsing SFTP/FTP shares etc), double clicking it, it opens in BBEdit automatically, and when you save in BBEdit, it automatically saves it back to the server.

You can use any editor with Interarchy, I've tested it with SubEthaEdit, Textedit, BBEdit, Textmate (I don't know why but I really find this app too 'busy').

Why would you need to do this, though? BBEdit (as well as TextWrangler) has an "Open from FTP/SFTP Server" option that works quite well.

Millennium · Oct 26, 2005, 11:53 AM

BBEdit of all apps would gain no benefits from being Cocoa. It is, in every meaningful aspect, an exemplar of what a good Carbon app can be.

mdc · Oct 26, 2005, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Paco Loco

Has anyone had any experience using Tag yet?

www.talacia.com/products/tag

the creator of tag posts here sometimes.
a few months ago he posted asking about tag 1.5 (or 2, can't remember) and he had some very nice feature ideas that would go into tag.

haven't heard anything since then.

my 2c for this thread is that i use smultron

inkhead · Oct 26, 2005, 12:59 PM

I'll try tag out this morning.

Here are features I want in a texteditor:
Tag collapsing (As seen in textmate)
SFTP/Online Editing (As seen in macromedia homesite)
Preview (using webkit)
TidyHTML (cleanup engine, as seen hardly working anywhere, skedit has it but buggy)

inkhead · Oct 26, 2005, 01:02 PM

Tag, isn't as polished but it's snippets are better than the other editors, also it doesn't include any SFTP or anything like that which sucks.

DeathMan · Oct 26, 2005, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by inkhead

I'll try tag out this morning.

Here are features I want in a texteditor:
Tag collapsing (As seen in textmate)

Textmate has it (doy)

SFTP/Online Editing (As seen in macromedia homesite)

Textmate + Transmit or Interachy (why build an ftp client into an text editor when you have a company that specializes in ftp and you'll get better features)

Preview (using webkit)

Textmate has this , but in BBEdit I think it will parse PHP for you. (Either native, or a 3rd party Applescript, I can't remember).

TidyHTML (cleanup engine, as seen hardly working anywhere, skedit has it but buggy)

Textmate has this. Its really configurable too. Look in the bundle editor. I made mine so it doesn't wrap, and converted the spaces to tabs.

tie · Oct 26, 2005, 05:57 PM

Is there a text editor with easy macros? I'd like to be able to go to the menu, select record new macro, then type arbitrary keystrokes (regular characters as well as delete, arrow keys, home, end, etc.), stop recording the macro, then run it with something like command-1 (or whatever number I assigned it to). TextWrangler records scripts, but does not seem to record my keystrokes.

I'd also like tabbed editing (basically I liked CrimsonEditor on Windows).

Mithras · Oct 26, 2005, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by tie

Is there a text editor with easy macros? I'd like to be able to go to the menu, select record new macro, then type arbitrary keystrokes (regular characters as well as delete, arrow keys, home, end, etc.), stop recording the macro, then run it with something like command-1 (or whatever number I assigned it to). TextWrangler records scripts, but does not seem to record my keystrokes.

I'd also like tabbed editing (basically I liked CrimsonEditor on Windows).

There are probably many with easy macros, but TextMate does exactly that. If you watch this Ruby on Rails movie, you can see TextMate in action. The guy uses lots of keystroke macros to type function definitions and HTML tags instantly.

It also has tabs.