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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > strange, strange, strange MBP2011 problem

strange, strange, strange MBP2011 problem
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canadave
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Jul 25, 2015, 08:01 AM
 
This is a wild one. Here goes:

I've got a 2011 MBP 17". I bought it refurbished off ebay two or three years ago from a US seller with an excellent ebay reputation score. It's always had a strange little graphics glitch--specifically, every now and then, if I would "show all open windows" in Expose, when I returned to normal view, one of the windows would display nothing but weird graphics blockiness until I clicked on it--then it would show the normal contents of the window. It was a minor enough issue that I never bothered troubleshooting it. Everything else worked fine, as I said, for about 2-3 years.

About a couple of months ago, though, I encountered something more serious. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, the entire screen would start glitching in much more "this is not normal" ways (strobing black and white lines), and then my laptop would suddenly restart seconds later. Sometimes it would try to reboot several times and then finally succeed; other times it would reboot successfully first try. This new problem was intermittent too--sometimes it would happen every few minutes, other times I could get by for hours, or even a day or two, but no more than that--eventually it would happen again.

I thought it was the dreaded 2011 MBP graphics issue that Apple has recently started an out-of-warranty replacement program for. When I took it to the Apple Store though, the tech ran all kinds of tests to indicate whether or not my laptop was subject to the "recall". Every test he ran checked out absolutely perfectly, even the battery.

Then, about a week after I brought it back from the Apple Store, with no improvement, I said, "Maybe I should just eliminate the possibility it's a software issue by reinstalling OSX Yosemite." I didn't format my drive, but I did reinstall Yosemite over top of my existing install. Suddenly everything was fine!!! For an entire month, it never rebooted. It operated absolutely perfectly. Everything was fine.

But yesterday, the problem suddenly, without warning, came back out of the blue. Same kinds of graphics glitchiness out of nowhere, randomly, followed seconds later by a reboot.

But this time, I could not get back into OSX Yosemite, no matter what I tried. It reboots, shows the grey Apple logo screen, the dark "loading" bar starts marching across the screen under the logo, gets about a third of the way, then shuts the computer down (no reboot). If I try to start the computer again, same thing happens. I tried this for about an hour with no change. I even tried holding down the Option key and selecting the Recovery disk--same thing would happen.

I decided to boot into Recovery mode (by holding down Command-R on startup) and try fsck to see what was going on--and during the fsck procedure, I saw a line that said "disk0s2 I/O error". Everything I've read indicates that this is a sign that the hard drive is failing. Could that be what's been causing all these problems?

OK. I then had another brilliant idea. I have Boot Camp installed on the same physical hard drive, different partition. I held down the Option key at boot and then selected my Windows partition. I was able to get in! No problems. In fact I caught up on some work I hadn't been able to do because of not being able to get into OSX.

One more curious data point. While in Windows, I tried to play a non-graphics intensive game. I started it, and selected a different resolution (changed to 1024x768). When the game tried to change the resolution of my MBP's screen, suddenly the same type of graphics glitchiness appeared! But this time, instead of rebooting, I got a Windows Blue Screen of Death, with an error message about the ATI driver. You would think if the graphics card or logic board really was failing, it would just reboot or shut down without a WINDOWS error, right?

Other than that, though, Windows remains fine. In fact, I'm typing this whole saga on the Boot Camp side of my ailing MBP.

So I guess TL;DR: Can the problems I've experienced really be due to a bad graphics card/logic board issue, if I'm able to work fine (mostly) on the Boot Camp side of my MBP? And, is it possible that that disk0s2 IO error truly indicates a failing hard drive that could be causing all these problems, and thus getting a new hard drive would be the ultimate solution? I know, you'd think a failing hard drive would affect Mac side and Boot Camp side equally; but I suppose it's possible, since my Boot Camp side is only 1/7th the size of my OSX partition, that maybe there's some kind of bad blocks that are only present in the OSX partition...?
( Last edited by canadave; Jul 25, 2015 at 08:13 AM. )
     
ghporter
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Jul 25, 2015, 08:33 AM
 
Read this Apple support page on the issue. It sounds like your machine is in the target group. From what I understand (and I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!) Apple doesn't really care if you're not the original owner for this kind of repair program. It seems to still be in force; I'd check it out.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Jul 25, 2015, 08:34 AM
 
TL;DR yes. Go back to the Apple store. If you can before you go, take a video of the launch process, and re-induce the BSOD in Windows, and capture that on video as well.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 25, 2015, 08:44 AM
 
Hi again Mike,

You actually helped me with the "first go-round" of this issue in a thread about a month or so ago If you recall, I took it to the Apple Store, and they refused to help me because there was a note on my MBP's "file" that said it was bought refurbished from ebay, and thus they were not allowed to give me any support whatsoever (including the 2011 MBP Graphics Replacement Program). At the time, you suggested I try calling Apple, which I was going to do, but then it started working fine again for a month, so I never wound up having to call

I don't think I'd have any luck at my local Apple Store no matter what I video or demonstrate, due to this thing they have about my MBP being an ebay refurb. I suppose I could call Apple as you suggested and go through the hassle of trying to convince them to take me in, but I'm just wondering if it really is just the hard drive going bad. The disk0s2 I/O error, plus the fact that it seems to be (mostly) fine on the WIndows side, makes me question whether it really is the graphics card or logic board. I mean, if it was the graphics card causing it to not even be able to boot to OSX, why would I be able to boot to Windows? is the question
     
ghporter
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Jul 25, 2015, 08:50 AM
 
The way graphics units operate under each OS is unique to the OS-specific drivers. The card may be doing OK under Windows (except for that annoying BSOD issue, which could easily be due to the graphics card being sketchy), but when OS X tells it to do something, the OS X drivers cause more, more frequent problems. Graphics cards are sneaky - the computer depends on them, and sometimes the OS can get by with simply having display issues, while other times (particularly in Windows) it's going to just fail completely and stop the machine dead.

Call Apple directly (see the link I posted) and see what they say. It can't hurt.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 25, 2015, 10:23 AM
 
I will indeed call them.

Just to add to this, I just finished reformatting my OS X partition. It reformatted fine, and I am now typing this on the OS X side of my hard drive. Which is why I'm really wondering if it's the graphics card/logic board. I'm not trying to be argumentative, believe me--I'm perfectly prepared to believe it IS the gfx/logic board, and I know you fellows have probably forgotten more about Macs than I'll ever know But if I wasn't able to boot into OS X at all, and I was seeing disk0s2 I/O errors, and in Disk Utility I wasn't able to even mount or repair my OS X partition (while my Boot Camp partition showed as perfectly fine), and by reformatting and reinstalling OS X I'm able to boot....then doesn't that all add up to some kind of operating system/disk problem?

Nevertheless, although things appear to be perfectly operational now, I will definitely give Apple a call if I experience any other issue from this point.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 26, 2015, 09:27 AM
 
Well, darned if the laptop didn't have a graphics glitch after having wiped the Mac OSX partition and reinstalling Yosemite. This time it didn't reboot...the screen flickered and then seconds later died, although I could still hear audio from my music player. I eventually had to reboot because I couldn't recover the screen, although the computer itself wasn't frozen.

This sucks I'm definitely going to call Apple as soon as I get through breakfast here, but I don't have any hope at all that they'll help me. Because (1) the testing they did at the Apple Store didn't show any problems relating to their Graphics Replacement Program, and (2) the issue with my laptop allegedly not being eligible for the replacement program because it was purchased refurb off ebay. Either of those issues alone I figure I could talk my way through, but both together I suspect is going to be very, very difficult Sigh....

The kicker is, in separate news, diagnostics of my hard drive seem to indicate some kind of "pre-fail" state. So that may be a separate issue, or possibly related, or.............
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jul 26, 2015, 10:17 AM
 
Regarding 2): Wait, this is a refurbished unit off eBay? So, presumably not refurbished by Apple?

That would make sense of why they rejected it — if it was a defective machine and parts were replaced by a non-authorized technician prior to sale, all bets and warranties are off.

If it's a machine purchased as refurbished from Apple and merely re-sold via eBay, there is absolutely no reason why Apple would refuse service. It's a machine like any other.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 26, 2015, 11:33 AM
 
I forget now the details of the unit I bought off ebay. I would imagine it was refurbished in some way, maybe/probably not by Apple.

But here's the thing--I agree that that should matter if I was looking to have it serviced for some regular issue. But in the case of this particular issue, where my laptop is one of those affected by this free graphics replacement program, it shouldn't make a difference.

In fact, I had this exact discussion with the Apple call centre fellow I spoke to just now. I explained what's gone on, and explained the unit was bought off ebay. He then said the same thing, that Apple doesn't know what might have happened to a machine bought off ebay. But my response was--and he agreed I had a point--that Apple has no way of knowing what *I* might've done to the laptop if I bought it from Apple directly. For all Apple knows, if I bought a laptop from them, I could've used the laptop as a hammer, or done amateur logic board surgery on it myself. So the "we don't know what might've been done to this laptop" argument equally applies whether it's from ebay or Apple.

In any case, I have good news to report! The Apple guy put me on hold and talked to his supervisor. After reading the terms of the Graphics Replacement Program, they agreed with me that it says nothing about exempting ebay-purchased Apple laptops! In fact, based on that fact, he apologized and said I should not have been turned away by my local Apple Store.

He couldn't get me all fixed though, because their case tracking system was temporarily on the fritz, but he told me to phone back in an hour (when the system should be back up) and they'll get me an appointment to get me in to an Apple Store or Authorized Service Centre to get the laptop fixed under the Graphics Replacement Program. Whew!! So I'm 90% of the way to being fixed....if they do in fact honour their word when I phone back, and I can get it replaced for free, then I'll buy an SSD hard drive and ward off any possible hard drive issues too.

Thanks for everybody's help!! I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Jul 26, 2015, 03:14 PM
 
temporarily on the fritz, huh?

Yeah, I hope you've got names.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 26, 2015, 04:05 PM
 
lol...I did I called back and spoke to someone else, explained the previous conversation an hour earlier, and she said "no problem" and created a case ID and set up an appointment to bring it to the Apple Store next weekend. I even asked her before I hung up, "So when I go to the Apple Store they'll know what's going on, right? Because they rejected me before", and she said yes.

Strangely, though, I received an email from Apple with my Case ID number, yet when I click on it to see the details of my "case", it doesn't have any notes on it at all as to what happened. There's nothing at all, just the case ID. So I think I may go call them back tomorrow and make sure things are all okay...
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 27, 2015, 05:14 PM
 
Unreal. UNREAL!

So I called Apple today to check to make sure everything relevant was noted for my visit to the Apple Store to get my laptop fixed. The tier 1 guy put me on hold while he spoke to a supervisor, and then came back and said the supervisor wanted to talk to me.

Well, this supervisor wasn't having any of it. He said my laptop wasn't covered by the repair program, because I didn't have a receipt proving date of purchase from Apple. He said the original guys I spoke to at Apple were in error when they said they would take care of me. He said Apple Call Centre wasn't able to authorize a repair overriding what the Apple Retail Store people said, because they're the ones who actually are able to physically look at my laptop.

He wouldn't see things my way in the slightest. I asked to speak to his supervisor and he told me he was at the top of the food chain and there was no one above him I could speak to, and that he was making the ruling and that was that. He was polite but firm. All he could suggest was that I speak to the manager of the Apple Retail Store and see what repair options would be available.

So basically, to sum up:

-- I have a 2011 17" Macbook Pro that is one of the models covered under Apple's Repair Extension Program for Video Issues.

-- I've just managed to make a video showing my laptop before the graphics corruption occurs, and then showing the graphics corruption occurring, followed immediately by a reboot...which is exactly the behaviour described by the Repair Extension Program as the symptoms of the problem that Apple is willing to fix for free.

-- The Apple Retail Store I went to originally will not touch my laptop because I purchased it from ebay, not Apple.

-- Apple Support will not authorize a repair because they won't override the Apple Store, and because I don't have a purchase receipt...despite the fact that no requirement of having such receipt is mentioned in the Repair Extension Program.

I am so, so, so bitterly disappointed in Apple right now. I've owned a bunch of their products for years, and have never had this kind of runaround trying to get a KNOWN ISSUE resolved satisfactorily. If nothing else, you'd think keeping a customer happy so that they make future purchases and spread good PR about Apple would be worth the $600 for them to fix the darn thing.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Jul 27, 2015, 06:47 PM
 
This is the Applecare people. You need Apple Consumer Relations.

(408) 996-1010
and
1-800-767-2275

Ask to speak to consumer relations, NOT APPLECARE, as you have a bone to pick with them. ASK POLITELY and CALMLY. These people are your last recourse.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 27, 2015, 08:29 PM
 
Thanks very much--I did not know there was such a thing as Apple Customer Relations.

Trust me, I've been speaking politely and calmly throughout all this--I worked in tech support for many years, so I've been on the other side of the phone. I'll admit that I was sorely tempted to scream a bit at the last guy I spoke to, but my sense of decorum held up

I'll post results after I phone and try to get hold of ACR.
     
canadave  (op)
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Jul 31, 2015, 03:47 PM
 
Well, that's a no-go.

Called Customer Relations and spoke with a very nice rep there who tried her hardest to help us. Again, it came down to the fact that since the laptop was purchased from ebay, Apple will not honour the extension program. She even said it was something that she cannot override, unlike other things. I thanked her for her help, and that was that.

To me, this is a totally unfair policy on Apple's part. The repair extension program covers Apple laptops that are completely out of warranty. If I brought my laptop in, they opened it up, and it had some kind of hacked Biostar motherboard on it, I could easily understand them not covering it. But if they were to open up my laptop, see nothing but Apple parts in it, see that I have a problem that is precisely covered by this out-of-warranty extension program, and then tell me that this is not covered simply because I bought it from eBay, despite there being no language in the repair extension program that prohibits that.....? I think that is totally unfair.
     
canadave  (op)
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Aug 11, 2015, 09:27 PM
 
Further clarification on this issue, since I pursued it with an Apple Customer Relations supervisor:

Apparently Apple makes certain devices available to ebay sellers and third-party resellers, and part of the terms of this agreement is that the machines in question become "no longer covered by any in-warranty or out-of-warranty service through Apple." Not only won't they cover things like the out-of-warranty repair extension program that Apple is offering to everyone else, but they won't even cover the "flat rate depot repair" option that many people in the US have been able to take advantage of to get their laptops fixed for at least a little cheaper than the "full cost" logic board repair option.

Moral of the story--think carefully before buying an Apple computer from any seller other than Apple.
     
   
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