[analogika]

Originally Posted by james9490

I won't, since I've already answered at least twice yet you refuse to listen until I say what you want to hear.

You've replied lots, yes, but you've yet to answer the second and third question.

So let me repeat them:



2) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DISABLED SECOND BUTTON *NOT* PROVIDING ACCESS TO AN UNNECESSARY (BY DESIGN) HIDDEN INTERFACE FEATURE IS "BAD INTERFACE.


3) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW CONTEXTUAL MENUS ARE *NOT* HIDDEN INTERFACE.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You have yet to even prove a likelihood that Mighty Mouse will be made standard gear...

Actually, the fact that the "standard" mouse is no longer available anywhere is a pretty good clue.

However, the mighty mouse becoming standard-issue doesn't mean squat, since, in standard configuration, it is STILL A ONE-BUTTON MOUSE.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by james9490

What you don't realize, though, is that you can perform "gradual upgrade" with consumer grade PCs. Check this out:

1) iMac
You buy it, and it becomes obsolete the moment you buy it. 6 months later there is a new CPU chip and you want to upgrade the machine with it, but you are stuck with it because it's impossible to install a new CPU chip on iMac's motherboard. You are stuck until you save up enough money to buy a new one. Since there is no way of keeping up with the latest and the greatest unless you have so much cash to burn, you are forever stuck with obsolete machine.

Just because it's not The Latest And Greatest (tm) does not mean it's incapable of running the latest software at acceptable speeds. I'm typing this entry on OSX 10.4 Tiger on a five-year-old PowerBook G4/400. It's no PowerMac G5 (of which I also have one), but it's acceptable for the things I do with it: e-mail, Web browsing, taking notes at work, and some basic 3-D rendering and script development. The only thing I've ever upgraded is the RAM, of which it currently has 384MB: a paltry sum by modern standards

It is said that the average useful life of a Mac is between four and six years. Would you even use equipment that old? Probably not, and for good reason: it wouldn't run any of your software in any remotely satisfactory way, because frankly the quality of most of your software only gets worse year after year because your userbase has grown complacent when it comes to tolerating crap. Yet here I am, working along just fine, and while no one has called my machine fast in a long time, I've yet to hear anyone call it slow.

2) PC
You buy it, and it becomes obsolete the moment you buy it. 6 months later there is a new CPU from both Intel and AMD, and you get to choose which one you prefer depending on your needs. You do a search in the PriceWatch web site to get a super-discount deal for those new chips, spend the absolute minimum, install it on an existing motherboard and viola! Your PC keeps up with the latest and the greatest.

You keep doing that, spend a little at a time, and your consumer-grade PC will eventually be transformed into a high-end workstation. And all this without having to spend a lot of cash up front.

...but spending far more just to keep it "useful" over the course of five years than you would have spent on just one, or in some cases even two Macs. Of course, if you want to pay less up front, Apple also offers some very attractive financing.

How can you beat that with your Mac?

By buying a machine which is going to stay useful over that same period of time.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by james9490

Why do you think other technologies are better than ASP and .NET?

Better backend technologies, better standard class libraries, better support for Web standards, better interoperability on the server side, better security... need I go on? ASP/.NET is an improvement over the Win32 API, not that this is saying much, but as a Web development technology there are very few things it can honestly claim to be better than.

Please explain. I guess you are referring to something like PHP.

I don't think so. I used to like PHP very much, but there are better technologies, and even ASP/.NET beats it in most ways. But there are many things even better than that.

Granted, PHP is widely used in the web development market, but when it comes to serious corporate grade computing ASP is the true winner. Just look through major corporate sites, and you will find more ASP than PHP.

Um, actually you won't. You'll also find several technologies in the corporate world with an even greater market share than ASP or PHP, such as J2EE and even WebObjects. Of course, you can't just go by filename extensions on pages to figure this out, because many corporations completely hide their backend technologies from their users; they consider this some kind of "competitive advantage". I can think of far better reasons than that to hide the structure of apps from the user -such as presenting more usable URLS- but whatever works, I guess.

Open source, to them, is a major security threat because it is "open." Corporations can't afford such major risk.

Open source is not considered a security threat by most corporations, and for good reason: aside from being able to inspect and verify the security of the source -as many corporations do- the open-source community has a proven track record for responding to vulnerabilities when they are found, with a turnaround time that would cause most proprietary developers to faint.

I don't expect that many people here will change for better, but the truth needs to be heard.

Yes, the truth needs to be heard. So why don't you listen to it?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by analogika

Actually, the fact that the "standard" mouse is no longer available anywhere is a pretty good clue.

Except they don't have a BT Mighty Mouse, so while I think such a situation is outside the realm of possibility, I'm not that sure. That could be going all-Mighty Mouse or they could be going all-BlueTooth. At any rate, the point is that he refused to address the matter when it was brought up on page 1 and here he is complaining about us not "discussing"?

I thought there was a decent chance it would be made standard sometime (and it still doesn't come with computers, so it hasn't happened yet), and now it seems quite likely. I would've been happy to address the "It would be the same interface we have now except with a scroll wheel and the ability to configure more behaviors" point once he got that out of the way, but the point is that he has never shown any interest in doing anything except insulting Apple and its users. Hence, I cry troll.

[alphasubzero949]

Macs aren't upgradable? Funny, I just had a DVD burner put into my 2-year-old PowerBook. Hmmm...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Macs aren't upgradable? Funny, I just had a DVD burner put into my 2-year-old PowerBook. Hmmm...

iMacs' components aren't all upgradable (which is as advertised), and in James' world, that proves that Macs aren't upgradable.

Oh, but we're the ones who aren't interested in honest discussion.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Macs aren't upgradable? Funny, I just had a DVD burner put into my 2-year-old PowerBook. Hmmm...

Yeah funny, I really dunno how my Pioneer DVR-109, 80 gig IBM drive, or extra gig of RAM got in my case

BTW, ALL of those componets were sold as mainly PC upgrades. Only the Pioneer mentioned Mac compatibility, but who cares, the Mac has no trouble dealing with the PC world.

[brjohn]

Originally Posted by james9490

I am an expert in computer usability,

I'm sure your points are valid, though I can't verify them (don't have a mighty mouse here to test), buy your mistake was to post this on a site full of zealot Apple apologists.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by brjohn

I'm sure your points are valid, though I can't verify them (don't have a mighty mouse here to test), buy your mistake was to post this on a site full of zealot Apple apologists.

That was a mistake, but I think the bigger mistake is coming across as arrogant and pompous and wanting to "tell us all how it is" rather than actually being interested in having a conversation.

[[email protected]]

I like the little luv nub of a scoller. The two buttons were immedialy understandable. The side buttons where placed too far forward for my wee little hands. I never use those buttons on other mice anyhoo. not bad, but for a lot less you can be happy with an Icemouse from Macally.

And, oh yeah, wring forum!

I still would like a clickless mouse (silent)

[budster101]

James.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by brjohn

I'm sure your points are valid, though I can't verify them (don't have a mighty mouse here to test), buy your mistake was to post this on a site full of zealot Apple apologists.

Yeah, Millennium, who recently announced his intention to switch to Linux soon because he doesn't like Apple's description of its new computers, is such a zealot Apple apologist.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by brjohn

I'm sure your points are valid, though I can't verify them (don't have a mighty mouse here to test), buy your mistake was to post this on a site full of zealot Apple apologists.

No, it was no mistake. He's just ****ing around to get a response. He posted on exactly the right site.

[Stephen1]

My goodness

I've read most of ummm James "expert" postings.
Most are either beyone hilarious or factually inaccurate.
His last forum rants regarding the "superior" qaulity of Wma
over AAC should pretty much point out his actual qualifications.
He has none.
What an idiot.
Entertaining though

[Stephen1]

I'm sure your points are valid, though I can't verify them (don't have a mighty mouse here to test), buy your mistake was to post this on a site full of zealot Apple apologists.

Oh come on..
It certainly wasn't a mistake.
He planned it that way cause he likes a pissing match.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 0
Status: Offline

Posts: 0?!? Wtf? Then what's that up there?

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Posts: 0?!? Wtf? Then what's that up there?

He's also joined Amorya in the Lack of Stars Land™. Interesting.

[james9490]

Originally Posted by Millennium

I don't think so. I used to like PHP very much, but there are better technologies, and even ASP/.NET beats it in most ways. But there are many things even better than that.

Such as?

[james9490]

ZDNet UK reviews Mighty Mouse:
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/...9215755,00.htm

Rating --> 6.6 out of 10

"......However, Windows users and Mac users who haven't upgraded should stick with a more comfortable, less expensive mouse, such as the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse."

".......Although attractive, the Mighty Mouse is less comfortable to use than other mice we've tested, such as the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse, which offers better support for your hand."

".......When we used the Mighty Mouse with our Windows XP notebook, we could use the scroll ball only to scroll vertically, and the side buttons, which aren't programmable with Windows, defaulted to back buttons."

Enough said.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by james9490

Enough said.

It got a 6.6 out of 10. That is quite a long way from the MM being, as you stated in your very first post, “THE worst mouse I have ever seen in my entire life”.

No one here (okay, maybe a few, I don't know, and I'm not about to read through this whole mess of a thread just to find out; but at least only few at the most) claimed that the MM was perfect.

[james9490]

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=11558

"Many reviews of Apple's new Mighty Mouse have already appeared on the web, and most of them were quite negative. Walter Mossberg even concluded: "Microsoft has beaten Apple on hardware design, at least in this one case." Are these findings correct? To find out, we put the Mighty Mouse to the test..."

"Is the mighty mouse worth the €59,- I payed for it? It's difficult to say. The three major design flaws (scrollball placed too far south, squeeze buttons too difficult to use, touch-sensor technology not advanced enough) make this a difficult buy to justify. If you already have a decent mouse, I really cannot come up with a reason to buy this mouse, other than "It's Apple."

"The gist: For true Apple fans only. The other reviews were right: this mouse could have been a lot better."

And guess what, I didn't write these. It's the Mac users refusing to listen to the truth.

[james9490]

Here is yet another review that agrees with me:

http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com...-mighty-mouse/

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by james9490

And guess what, I didn't write these. It's the Mac users refusing to listen to the truth.

You seem to have, firstly a very selective reading ability, and secondly some issues regarding the meaning of the word 'truth'.

Your truth != the absolute, universal truth.

A lot of people agreed with you that the Mighty Mouse could have been a lot better. It was your uninformed, factually incorrect, and more than occasionally ignorant statements (in this thread and others) about pretty much anything Mac-related that we disagree with.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by james9490

And guess what, I didn't write these. It's the Mac users refusing to listen to the truth.

Most of the Mac users in this thread are disagreeing with you about topics other than the Mighty Mouse. I don't know of anyone here that is disillusioned into thinking the MM is the best mouse of all time. I have one, and it's an OK mouse... not perfect but not crap, either.

You're anti-Apple everything and that's where you're understandably getting the most feedback, which is, of course, your goal.

[kikkoman]

Well i've had my mighty mouse for a few days now and I would disagree that was user interface nightmare. It certainly is usable as a two button mouse with a scroll wheel. I would like to see simplified version of the product without the squeeze buttons or horizontal scrolling. Maybe get rid of the center click. I think such a product would still meet the needs of most users who want something beyond the single button mouse. It would also be less expensive.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by analogika

You've replied lots, yes, but you've yet to answer the second and third question.

So let me repeat them:



2) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DISABLED SECOND BUTTON *NOT* PROVIDING ACCESS TO AN UNNECESSARY (BY DESIGN) HIDDEN INTERFACE FEATURE IS "BAD INTERFACE.


3) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW CONTEXTUAL MENUS ARE *NOT* HIDDEN INTERFACE.

rinse, lather, repeat.

[davesimondotcom]

Well -

I bought myself a MM yesterday. Loving it so far. The scroll ball is awesome.

As far as the whole thing about something being "obsolete" - my circa January 2000 G4 still runs Tiger and all of the latest software.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by james9490

ZDNet UK reviews Mighty Mouse:
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/...9215755,00.htm

Rating --> 6.6 out of 10

"......However, Windows users and Mac users who haven't upgraded should stick with a more comfortable, less expensive mouse, such as the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse."

".......Although attractive, the Mighty Mouse is less comfortable to use than other mice we've tested, such as the Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse, which offers better support for your hand."

".......When we used the Mighty Mouse with our Windows XP notebook, we could use the scroll ball only to scroll vertically, and the side buttons, which aren't programmable with Windows, defaulted to back buttons."

Enough said.

Except they're saying a different thing than you. They say it's uncomfortable and doesn't work as well with Windows as it does with the Mac (which is pretty much as expected). You said it's a hidden interface that people will not be able to figure out and the scroll ball will confuse people into not realizing it's like a scroll wheel. You also said the side buttons are too easy to hit, which is directly contradicted by another review that you later quote as saying the buttons are too hard to hit.

Few of us have argued that Mighty Mouse is perfect. We just say your arguments are retarded.

[budster101]

I think it's safe to say that James has changed from Troll to Sociopathic Mac Hater.

This thread never had anything to do with the MM, but was an excellent way for this psychopathic megalomaniac to gain an audience and feed his sickness. He has succeeded because it's obvious this is not his first time doing such a thing in a forum. It's rather amusing, sick, sad, and pathetic all at once.

We know our choice of computing environment is the best for us, and probably the rest of the world. We wouldn't be here discussing it on a board if we all didn't know that.

One must be quite pathetic to have to go into a forum like this person and continually act like an idiot to get one's jollies. I wonder if he is only typing with one hand...

[loki74]

Seriously, the Logitech MX series is probably the best in the world, although I am considering Razer PRO. *shrug*

Listen, James...
MM is not a perfect design. It is not a mouse I would consider using. It does not meet my needs as a graphic designer/3D animator. Does that make it the single worst mouse in the world?? No.

I, and pretty much everyone else on the NN, am willing to concede and admit to the flaws that Apple and its products have. Like I said, MM is not something I would want. But it is not a terrible design, and frankly would serve me better than a one-button device.

So here's what I see happening: MS fanboys like yourself use the fact that the Mac mice do not have a right click feature. It's a card I've seen played many many times by types like you as a reason why the Macistosh platform sucks. So finally, Apple creates a mouse with two button funtionality. If you were being objective and consistent, you would recognize that this is at least an attempt to move in the right direction, even though it has X, Y and Z wrong with it. (Good intention, bad delivery)

But no. Objective, informative discussion is not and never was your intention. You want to have a pissing contest. You want to annoy people. Okay, sure, fine, whatever, I can see where this would be entertaining to an immature person. But do you leave it well be after that? Nope. You're just not satisfied. After trying and succeeding to piss us off, you go and try to act like Mr. Righteous and act all offended and astonished because we express the frustration you worked not-so-hard to elicit. It is dispicable.

I am very open to discussion regarding Apple's flaws. There are ups and there are downs, just like any system. I would welcome an earnest, serious skeptic who had honest questions regarding Mighty Mouse. A person who saw something, had an impression, and wanted a second opinion. But this is not you. From the start you were inflamatory and insulting, claiming that you had experience you could not prove. Respect is something one must earn. You demanded it without earning it, and delivered this demand with an insult and sarcasm to boot. Your nefarious intentions became rapidly clear as the thread progressed. You disgust me. Please leave; you have long outstayed your welcome.

[just a poster]

It's amazing that a company with Apple's industrial design talent doesn't "get" the mouse, the most basic user interface device in computing.

Everybody at Apple needs to get a Logitech MX1000, MX900, and the last-generation Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer (not the current generation one, MS really screwed up the center button when the made the side-to-side scroll wheel action). IMO, that is the state of the art in mouse design today.

It is truly a sad state of affairs when I purchase all-Apple equipment (even my AMD boxes are hooked up to Apple displays) yet I've replaced every Apple mouse I have ever purchased since they switched to USB.

[lavar78]

I just tried the Mighty Mouse yesterday for the first time. The scroll ball is fantastic! It's better than any scroll wheel I've used. I could right-click easily, but I'd probably keep it as a one-button mouse anyway. I personally spend much more time cmd-clicking than ctrl-clicking. The side buttons were the only disappointment. They're awkward.

[budster101]

Just a poser < fixed.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by budster101

Just a poser < fixed.

Huh?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by just a poster

It's amazing that a company with Apple's industrial design talent doesn't "get" the mouse, the most basic user interface device in computing.

Everybody at Apple needs to get a Logitech MX1000, MX900, and the last-generation Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer (not the current generation one, MS really screwed up the center button when the made the side-to-side scroll wheel action). IMO, that is the state of the art in mouse design today.

It is truly a sad state of affairs when I purchase all-Apple equipment (even my AMD boxes are hooked up to Apple displays) yet I've replaced every Apple mouse I have ever purchased since they switched to USB.

I've found that people who don't use computers a lot and don't right-click extensively (i.e. aren't geeks) often actually prefer Apple's mouse. I can't really figure out why, since I am a geek and prefer Logitech, but the common folk do seem to like Apple's mouse design.

[brokenjago]

Okay, I must admit, I joined this forum simply because I love this james guy.

James, please accept my sincere gratitude for cheering me up today. I am not going through the best chapter of my life right now, and your illogical, hypocritical statements have made me laugh so incredibly hard, that i find it almost hard to breathe. I haven't laughed this much since.. I dunno, the last time I visited bash.org or something.

Please also note that I do not own any macs (although that's going to change in the very near future... just need a liiitttllleee more money ). I have used Windows for over 14 years, from 3.1 all the way through XP pro. I have gotten maybe 2 viruses in that entire span of time. I'm still getting a Mac, because Mac OS X > Windows in my opinion, period. But enough of that.

Thank You James. Please continue to post. I will always look to you when I'm feeling down.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Please also note that I do not own any macs (although that's going to change in the very near future... just need a liiitttllleee more money ). I have used Windows for over 14 years, from 3.1 all the way through XP pro. I have gotten maybe 2 viruses in that entire span of time. I'm still getting a Mac, because Mac OS X > Windows in my opinion, period. But enough of that.

Wtf?

What are you, me? Or rather, an incarnation of me about a year ago?

Spooky.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I've found that people who don't use computers a lot and don't right-click extensively (i.e. aren't geeks) often actually prefer Apple's mouse. I can't really figure out why, since I am a geek and prefer Logitech, but the common folk do seem to like Apple's mouse design.

I'm a geek and I prefer Apple's mouse. It's so much easier on my hand. I also have a Logitech MX518 (an excellent mouse), but the Apple Pro Mouse is much more comfortable for me. Again, I think right-clicking is overrated. I don't mind using Ctrl since I Opt-click almost as much and Cmd-click even more. Besides, I use Quicksilver, so my hand is already on/near the keyboard.

[Thade]

Didn't bother to read the whole thread... sorry... but why do people buy a product knowing full well what all the features/limitations are then complain after the fact? Being the expert that james is, I'm sure he knew that this mouse had right click, side click and a scroll ball BEFORE he bought it. If these features don't interest you, why buy it? The ball is the same size after you buy it as it was before....

[brokenjago]

Wtf?

What are you, me? Or rather, an incarnation of me about a year ago?

Spooky.

Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm me...

[tobyas]

I must admit. I too joined the forums because of this extremely entertaining "discussion".

It's funny to see how someone can be so utterly biased and off-track of the subject they originally started. How the same person blantly keeps ignoring valid counter-arguments and holds one controversial item as a measure for one of the consumer electronics-design industry's pioneering companies.

This guy has got to be a troll. Anyway, I've had a nice few hours reading this and laughing. Good to see that there are people that would be ready for a serious debate if that were the case though.

Oh and james, good luck on your (most probably made up) design career, I hope your (imaginary) customers never stumble upon this discussion (unless ofcourse they're as ignorant as you) and find yout who's behing your alias, might be the end of that career, byebye credibility and so on..

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm me...

Hmm... are you quite sure you don't just think you're you, when in fact you're me?



Anyway, there must be a bug somewhere in this server (apart from all the server errors). We've now gotten two new members in the last two days who stay at zero posts even after posting, and therefore don't receive their complimentary stars. Most inhospitable of us.

[Mister Elf]

He has credibility? Hmm...

[brokenjago]

*looks*

I seem to have stars....

And where is james to call us all Trolls? I want to see him reply to me! I love you James!

[james9490]

Originally Posted by brokenjago

*looks*

I seem to have stars....

And where is james to call us all Trolls? I want to see him reply to me! I love you James!

Yeah, I love you too.

[james9490]

Originally Posted by Mister Elf

He has credibility? Hmm...

Yes, I do have credibility. Just look at how immature most of people are in their responses. All they do is to call me names, label me as troll and paste those offensive graphics. It seems like they call someone troll so long as he/she doesn't agree with the rest of Macintosh crowd. And right, that's called credible response.......

[analogika]

[analogika]

Oh, and while I'm here:

Originally Posted by analogika

2) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW A DISABLED SECOND BUTTON *NOT* PROVIDING ACCESS TO AN UNNECESSARY (BY DESIGN) HIDDEN INTERFACE FEATURE IS "BAD INTERFACE.


3) PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW CONTEXTUAL MENUS ARE *NOT* HIDDEN INTERFACE.

[james9490]

Originally Posted by tobyas

It's funny to see how someone can be so utterly biased and off-track of the subject they originally started. How the same person blantly keeps ignoring valid counter-arguments and holds one controversial item as a measure for one of the consumer electronics-design industry's pioneering companies.

By the way Apple is not considered as "one of the consumer electronics-design industry's pioneering companies." It is actually Microsoft, SONY, and Samsung.

Originally Posted by tobyas

This guy has got to be a troll. Anyway, I've had a nice few hours reading this and laughing. Good to see that there are people that would be ready for a serious debate if that were the case though.

I am NOT a troll although I've been labeled as one. People even disregard all my response and call me names. One guy even sent me a very rude private message. The manner of the Mac community is all time low.

Originally Posted by tobyas

Oh and james, good luck on your (most probably made up) design career, I hope your (imaginary) customers never stumble upon this discussion (unless ofcourse they're as ignorant as you) and find yout who's behing your alias, might be the end of that career, byebye credibility and so on..

(Laughing) Who said that I was a graphic designer? I am an expert engineer, not a "designer."