[Tenacious Dyl]

I have a Dual 2.5 GhZ G5 which I ordered not too long after last Christmas. It has 2.5 GBS of ram, the 250 GB Maxtor Drive, and an Nvidia 6800 GT.

Every once and a while it freezes, mostly while playing World of Warcraft, but it was infrequent enough not to cause concern. I repair permissions often, and reset the PRAM when needed.

Last night, while playing World of Warcraft, it froze, again. Only this time, after holding the power button to turn it off, it didn't want to boot. I reset the PRAM a few times, and still, I get the gray apple screen, the loading circle, then instead of a log-in screen, I just get a blank blue screen. Over and over.

I put in the apple hardware test, which it actually did load, I ran the extended test, and it PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS...

I'm thinking ok, somethign happened to my harddrive maybe, so I pop in the OS X disk that came with my G5, which says all over it, that you can boot from it, and reset, select to boot from disk, and I get the blue screen of death once more. Tried this a few more times and gave up.

It has been more than 90 days since I bought the PM, but it still obviously has warrentee.

Here are my questions....

1) Has anyone had this problem, and have advice? Hints? Etc...

2) It passes the hardware test fine, and if I take it to the apple store, they will probably acknowledge that, and ignore me. They did this when I brought in my powerbook when it was having trouble, because it passed their hardware test, they didn't do anything but return it to me.

3) I have to pay for phone service... I can't afford to call them, to have them charge me, to tell me "ok sir... now hold down apple, option, p, and r"...

So.. does anyone have any advice? My 3,600 dollar machine is ... useless right now :-\
Thanks!!

[seanc]

It does sound like a hard drive problem, until you tell us that the cd won't boot either.

Try removing all ram except the one that came with the Mac. I'm sure it will look different from the others and have an Apple logo on it.

Then try to boot.

Otherwise it could be a processor problem or logic board.

I don't have a PM G5, so don't demand a new processor or logic board from Apple just because I said so. I'm no genius.

If you've got files you need, then try putting it into target disk mode and copying files since it doesn't sound like a hard drive issue.

Just as an experiement to try and rule out the hard drive, disconnect all the cables from the hard drive(s) and see if you can boot from CD.

You could also try downloading a live linux distro to see if that willl boot. Make sure it's for PPC and is a LIVE distro CD or DVD. You don't want to go and accidentally erase your hard disk and destroy your files.

Also try disconnecting all external devices except monitor keyboard and mouse

Good luck,

Sean

[GSixZero]

Take it to the apple store. I've never had a genius use the fact that a machine passes AHT to say that it's not broken.

Take it to the Apple Store, I'm sure they'll fix you right up.

[Tenacious Dyl]

thanks.. and update:

I put it in target disk mode, and from my powerbook, i ran more disk tests on it, and the hard-drive appears fine. I backed up my data, and erased and formatted the G5 drive.. and it still won't boot on the G5 disks from apple.

Probably going to drop it off at an apple store, or have a box sent to send it to apple to be fixed. Really hope they can fix it, and not just kick me around only to do nothing.

Any more info / ideas are appreciated.. thanks

[seanc]

Did you try the ram? Ram seems to be the most common cause of problems on Mac's, whether you think it's faulty or not.

Try taking out all non Apple ram or test 1 piece of ram at a time and see what happens. It could save you a lot of time, and Apple.

How did you erase your hard drive?

[Tenacious Dyl]

I tested the ram with various applications (apple hardware, and the tech tool deluxe). I don't know why it would just stop like this... as no new updates to the system / etc were performed. But I don't suppose it could hurt.

I put it in target disk mode, connected the g5 to my powerbook via Firewire, and then opened Disk Utility, from there I re-formatted the g5's drive, and now it is currently writing 0's, which takes FOREVER on a 250 GB drive, hehe.

I will try the ram later tonight, and if that doesn't work, to apple it goes :-(

[seanc]

Yeah memory is a tricky thing to test.

If it's very faulty then it will show up, but just slightly you may not notice it and it may not be picked up in tests.

You can put the Apple Hardware test in Loop mode, but i can't remember how.

All you need to do when your drive is finished is put in 1 stick of ram at a time and try to boot the mac. If it works add another stick. If it doesn't thet try another single stick.
If no sticks work then you have a bigger problem.

If changing ram makes no difference then just try disconnecting the hdd and booting to cd.
I know it makes no sense that the hdd would stop the cd booting, but i've seen hardware do funnier things than that.

Good luck

[jamil5454]

I'm not sure if you can only do one stick at a time since RAM for G5s must be installed in pairs.

[seanc]

Oh. Now there's my lack of G5 experience showing.

Try installing in pairs then and alternating between pairs.

If you have a pair with a&d c&d b&d and you always get the error with d in a pair then you now that d is the problem.

[Tenacious Dyl]

more "updates"

The drive finished zero-ing out, and still no install.

I tried different combinations of ram (in pairs of course) to no good result. I would still load the cd, select it to boot from (by holding down option during boot or the c key) and still, after the gray loading screen, be left with either a blank white screen or a blank blue screen (random color?)

Next I tried all of the ram combinations (in pairs) with the hard-drive unplugged, and again, all of these problems occured. Still couldn't boot, even on apple's cd.

I suppose my only choice is to take it to the nearest apple store in Novi, and hope they will fix or replace this thing...

EDIT: Also reset the PMU (small button on motherboard located at S1 (behind double fans that remove) Still no effect...

EDIT 2: Another note, during all of these tests, the only item plugged into the G5 was my Apple Cinema Display (20 inches, aluminum) and my keyboard. Note that the keyboard was directly plugged into the G5, the diplay's hubs were NOT plugged into the G5 and nothing was plugged into them.

Will be packing everything up and taking it to the store over the next 7 days, will update in a week.

[Crusoe]

I'll bet it's the video controller or video memory. I have a powerbook that did the exact same thing, playing WoW none the less. It quickly deteriorated to what yours is doing now but I could, after many forced restarts, get it to boot on rare occasion. I ran the AHT in loop mode for ~4 hours and it passed everything. Applecare replace my logic board free of charge.

Since it's under warranty I'd just take it in but if you have another Mac video card, swap it out and see what happens.

[Al G]

Since you've already tested the RAM in different combinations, you know it's not the RAM (unless every stick you have is bad). Just remove the extra RAM you added before you take it to the Apple Store, so that only the stock "Apple" RAM remains. Apple loves to blame problems on third-party RAM, even though they don't actually make their own RAM or even put an "Apple" sticker on it.

[Tenacious Dyl]

Hey all!
Dropped it off at apple (after removing the non-apple ram, heh). They tried to boot it up, and told me that it was booting in another method (that it shouldn't be) it was some " ___ mode " boot.. and I know it wasn't Safe, but i forget the terminology.

Anyway, they say that they "think" it is the logic board and the processors. So, they gave me an ETA of 7-10 days (or "earlier") and I will go pick it up then!

The video card seems more probable. As you would think hardware test would acknowledge a logic board or processor problem, where it probably WOULDNT detect a video card problem, aside from checking the ram on the card itself.

Odd coincidence about the World of Warcraft... we will see what happens here.

[Todd Madson]

Here's hoping your dual 2.5 gets better quickly. Scary stuff though.

[westrock]

Originally Posted by Tenacious Dyl

The video card seems more probable. As you would think hardware test would acknowledge a logic board or processor problem, where it probably WOULDNT detect a video card problem, aside from checking the ram on the card itself.

I've only had video cards go out one of two ways. Either it the computer displays nothing at all, or the computer loads but the picture is jacked up.

I've never seen one load "a little"

Good luck to you though, hope they fix you up just right Luckily most electronics that are faulty usually go bad rather quickly before a warranty is out. You hear alot about I've had it for a month and its dead, but not so many I had it for 3 years and it just died.

[jamil5454]

If the heatsink isn't properly mounted on the video card, then in a few seconds after you turn it on, the GPU will heat up past meltdown temperature and everything will go to hell. Some video cards can run with a scorchingly hot GPU, but when you try to do anything 3d (graphics-intensive), the card self-destructs.

Exaggerating is fun.

[a2daj]

Originally Posted by Tenacious Dyl

Hey all!
Odd coincidence about the World of Warcraft... we will see what happens here.

One thing to keep in mind is that WoW, as well as other games, tend to push the system much more than any hardware test utility, so faults in hardware tend to show up more often while playing games or other system stressing apps. So playing WoW probably pushed something over the limit that the test utilities can't detect.

Hope everything ends up fine. We all know what happens when a WoW addict can't play WoW for extend periods of time...

[Tenacious Dyl]

a2daj: Hehe, you are right! I need my WoW. Instead, I went up north for some time on the lake w/ some friends.. It was quite a nice break from work and other things here!

About the G5.. Apple called, they replaced the motherboard and the two processors, but still had "issues" (i didn't take the message, so couldn't ask what they were) and they replaced the graphics card as well. I will be able to go pick it up in Novi at the Apple Store tomorrow (Monday).

So.. good news I suppose, I'm glad they replaced the video card right now, otherwise I would have constant fear of further problems! They also loaded up OS X for me, because of the problems re-installing (earlier mentioned in this post) so that my HD isn't empty. Was quite nice of them.

Will update again when I receive it (also wonder,.. did they replace my 6800 GT with a 6800 Ultra? As they no longer sell GT.. maaaaybe )

[Tenacious Dyl]

For anyone interested...

Got my G5 back today. Like Apple said, the motherboard, both processors, and video card were replaced. They unfortunately still have 6800 GT's despite not selling them, so they just gave me a replacement GT (not the Ultra).

As far as other differences, the hard-drive had 10.3.5 installed on it, so I quickly put tiger back on it once I booted it up. It also has two decent scratches on it, near the top, on the side that the g5 opens on. Was disapointed at apple's mishandling of it. Also, as I saved a few bucks, and didn't choose to have a normal phone modem installed, my g5 originally had a little plastic plug over the phone modem port. It no longer has that plug, which made me wonder if I have a phone modem, but under System Profiler, it says there is no modem detected.

So.. in the end, everything works, and the bad parts were replaced, and I got a few nasty scratches. Oh well.. I'm glad I can go back to everyday use of it, and of course, World of Warcraft

[andretan]

I experienced something like this a couple of weeks ago, when I "cold" rebooted as I thought the system had gone down, but I hit the keys too early, and my iBook would just boot up to the blue screen and beachball there, going no further.

I tried to boot from my Tiger DVD, but it wouldn't work. Was feeling quite desperate already since I didn't have any backup at all. :-[

Luckily, I remembered about the single-user mode and fsck.... which saved the day.

[hpence]

I wish i had gotten to this thread earlier - I have experianced this problem several times in the past. The culpret was the graphics card. Or rather, the graphics cards was the direct cause of the problem, which in turn *could* be caused by inproper power being fed to it (motherboard problem or PSU, though it wouldnt boot at all if it were the PSU).

Just out of curiosity - did you ever try to boot up in safe mode while the machine was still problematic? If so, what was the effect?

[Tenacious Dyl]

I tried single user mode, safe mode, booting from disk, verbose mode, etc, etc.... nothing worked. The ONLY WAY I could boot was using the Hardware Disk, which it passed. All other modes, as well as apple disks, failed miserably.

[hpence]

from my experianes (all with ATI cards) the machine would act exactly how you describe except safe mode would fully boot.

The problem would be caused by the power being fed to a picky card. during startup, the graphics card is in a very generic "gimp" type mode - no 2d or 3d accelleration is being used and much of the card is sitting idle. When the screen switches from that grey spinning apple to the login screen, the graphics card tuns on its full capability. If the card doesnt quite have the right power being fed to it at the time - this will result in a hanging blue screen, or the card completely turning off.
When booting in the safe mode, the card stays in the gimped, no acceleration mode so it will boot up fine (at least with the few ATI cards ive had this problem with).

I know it was a card + motherboard combination since a problematic card in one machine would work fine in another, and swapping the power supplies had no effect.

cant say if this was the cause with your nividia card, but it sounds very similar.