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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > upgrade a G4 or buy G5

upgrade a G4 or buy G5
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superfula
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Sep 9, 2005, 06:09 PM
 
After selling my Powerbook, I am looking at a choice.

One option is to pick up an older G4 Powermac, upgrade the processor, ram, hd, sata card, video card, etc. Looking at a price of just over 1100 for the whole deal. Or do I look for a used dual 1.8 G5, which would come in around 1500ish and no need to upgrade. Price, of course, plays a role here. Add in how fun it would be to tear up the G4 and upgrade the hell out of it.

I'd probably put in a dual 1.8 G4, so the performance difference between the G4 and G5 would be negligible unless I start running some pro apps. To me the G4 choice is pretty obvious, but I thought I'd find out which option you would choose. Perhaps I've missed something in comparison
     
Lateralus
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Sep 9, 2005, 07:32 PM
 
I was in a similar position myself. I had a Dual 1.8GHz G5, got pretty bored with it since I'm more into tweaking my hardward than I am into actually doing anything productive with my machine, so I sold it and threw together the G4 in my signature.

Through some swapping and running around, I managed to get a barebones Digital Audio for about $50 in great shape. Found somebody selling three PC-133 512MB Crucial DIMMs for a total of $80. Picked up a 128MB FX 5200 Ultra card on a mail list for $40. Added a Pioneer DVR-109 for $40. Added two 250GB/16MB S-ATA Maxtors for $250 and a 4-port SIIG S-ATA card for $80. And crowing it all off I've got a Giga Dual 1.8GHz G4, which I got when they went to $499.

Not bad for $1,000~
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CanadaRAM
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:04 PM
 
Get the G5. No question.
Your G4 upgrades will be expensive, and unless you are purely in this for the amusement value, a tricked out dual G4 will never compete with the G5.

Just look at the memory peak bandwidth.
Graphite/Quicksilver G4: Single-channel PC133 1.06 GB per second.
MDD G4: Single channel PC2700 2.7 GBps
G5: Dual Channel PC3200 6.4 GBps
     
Lateralus
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:08 PM
 
There's almost no difference in performance between G4 and G5 systems of comparable clock speed. Memory bandwidth is nice and all, but your point is moot since the G4 is low latency and doesn't need the bandwidth as much as the G5 does to reach peak.

Going from the G5 to the G4, I can name just as many things that are faster on the G4 as I can things that were faster on the G5.

It isn't as cut and dry as most people seem to think.
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superfula  (op)
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:13 PM
 
The only reason I have this 'dilemma' is because the G4 will almost keep up with a G5, clock for clock. As Lateralus said, the memory bandwidth doesn't mean a whole lot here. If I were going to be running some of the high-end apps quite a bit...Logic Pro, Shake, Final Cut...the G5 would be the smarter choice.

Lat...how loud are the G4 upgrades you put in?
     
Lateralus
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:21 PM
 
This is my second 1.8MP upgrade from Giga. My first had been ordered for another system when they first started shipping them, back in January or February. It was an absolute screamer. Very loud. But it was as Revision 1 as a product can be.

Between then and the time I ordered my second 1.8MP Giga seems to have gone through a few revisions, as the product packing, instructions and even the card itself are a little different. The original 1.8MPs required hooking up a molex power cable to the card from the power supply for more juice, the newer ones do not. And the fans are much, much quieter.

The loudest thing about this system is the power supply now, which is next on my list of things to fix I think.
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superfula  (op)
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:36 PM
 
What about getting a Digital Audio vs a Gigabit Ethernet? Would the fsb and agp speed increase of the DA over a GE be worth it?
     
Lateralus
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Sep 9, 2005, 09:52 PM
 
Eh, from what I've seen the 33MHz increments did little to nothing as far as speed boosts for the G4s. So I'm guessing not.

But beyond performance there is something else you need to consider when looking at the FSB; The clock multiplier support of your processor upgrade. The G4 supports a 20x clock multiplier, meaning the max you could run one in a 100MHz system would be 2GHz. But 20x 133MHz is 2.66GHz. And considering we're already at 2GHz with the G4 upgrades, I wouldn't limit your future upgrade capabilities any more than you have to. The 7448 G4 is set to debut this fall and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Giga & friends shipped them in excess of 2.13GHz, overclocked.

But beyond the bus there's also the AGP 2x vs 4x issue. There really isn't a whole lot available for 2x slots, the 9800 is as good as it would get. With a 4x slot, you at least have the option of upgrading to 'unofficial' cards like hardware modified G5 Radeon 9600 cards or FireGL cards modified to X800 spec.

There's also the PCI slots. I just don't feel comfortable with three slots.

There really isn't a whole lotta difference in price between the GE and DA machine since most people seem to assume that since the case is the same, so are the innards. So the DAs don't fetch as much on eBay as the QuickSilvers do, which they probably should.
( Last edited by Lateralus; Sep 10, 2005 at 02:57 PM. )
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superfula  (op)
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Sep 10, 2005, 04:02 AM
 
I wasn't aware of the 20x clock multiplier. That and the extra pci slot would make the DA Mac a lot more desireable
     
DrBoar
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:34 AM
 
Even if you get a G4 for free you it will lack in compared to a G5
1. No DVDburner=>Buy DVD burner
2. Way to small HD perhaps also 128 GB size limit. Buy Sata card buy sata drives
3. RAM???
4. The graphic card is a joke, buy a new card
5. CPUs some serious money for dual CPUs

If you only need some few of these things for DVDburning or other stuff, a partial upgrade is not a bad idea but if you need the whole 1-5, just the upgrades will cost you as much if not more than the complete G5
     
Halfloaf
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Sep 12, 2005, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by DrBoar

If you only need some few of these things for DVDburning or other stuff, a partial upgrade is not a bad idea but if you need the whole 1-5, just the upgrades will cost you as much if not more than the complete G5
Granted, but if money isn't the issue (when isn't it though?) I'd do the G4 upgrade...MUCH MORE FUN!!!
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superfula  (op)
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Sep 12, 2005, 11:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by DrBoar
Even if you get a G4 for free you it will lack in compared to a G5
1. No DVDburner=>Buy DVD burner
2. Way to small HD perhaps also 128 GB size limit. Buy Sata card buy sata drives
3. RAM???
4. The graphic card is a joke, buy a new card
5. CPUs some serious money for dual CPUs

If you only need some few of these things for DVDburning or other stuff, a partial upgrade is not a bad idea but if you need the whole 1-5, just the upgrades will cost you as much if not more than the complete G5
I've already priced everything out. I'll be spending around 1100-1200, including the price of the Mac. No need for a dvd burner though. Versus 1600 for anything with a dual 1.8 G5 in it.
     
hotani
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Sep 13, 2005, 01:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by DrBoar
Even if you get a G4 for free you it will lack in compared to a G5
1. No DVDburner=>Buy DVD burner
2. Way to small HD perhaps also 128 GB size limit. Buy Sata card buy sata drives
3. RAM???
4. The graphic card is a joke, buy a new card
5. CPUs some serious money for dual CPUs
Having done just about everything on your list (all but #5, too much sweet moolah) I'll comment on the costs:

1- Lite-On dvd +-R burner/48x CD RW blah blah... $50
2- No SATA cards. there are 4 HD slots in my box and I have 2 120s (maxtor) mirrored for my primary and a 300GB (westy) for media - no problems. Got the 300GB drive recently for $150
3- added RAM when I bought the box, paid about $100 or something for an additional 512MB, but that was almost 3 years ago.
4- Went from gforce MX (stock) to Ti. bought used for $200, about 2 years ago
5- looks like $500+ for this one so i'm holding off. My dual 867s do the trick nicely for just about everything. I'd like to have some more juice for gaming but don't really need it. A good example is Halo which is very playable on my machine.

To comment on your original question: if it were me, I'd get the G5 in spite of my love of hardware hackin just because its all set out of the box. I guess it depends on how bad you want to 'build' something vs just buy and use (see Lateralus' post above about his new G5).
( Last edited by hotani; Sep 13, 2005 at 01:46 PM. )
// hōtani
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