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It is. Conservatives have been bitching about Hillary for nearly 30 years. Its utterly tedious at this point. Amusingly its probably the reason they can't convict her for anything, because even their own assume they are making it up or over-exaggerating it.
It's more tedious than complaints about discussing politics on a political sub-forum?
They can't convict her because she's American "royalty", it's similar to trying to charge a Kennedy for rape or murder.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
That can't be true, the Dem convention was a Triumph of Unity™.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
The only possible difference is that while I see Hillary as a career politician and all the things Laminar said, I also see her as smart and capable of doing the job and keeping the status quo afloat, whereas I literally see Trump as a crazy person with terrible ideas. I have to take status quo unenthusiasticly over the Trump.
I would add to that that I honestly find enthusiastic Hillary bashing without explicit approval of Trump, at the very least, a complete waste of time. You get one or the other. Johnson is still sub 10%. If you want him to win, why not promote him and his ideas?
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Aug 5, 2016, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by Snow-i
If quoting him and insulting him in a thread that he's active in isn't engagement, what is?
Responding to points made, expecting that those points will be thoughtfully considered.
I'm hoping that as the internet becomes ever more prevalent and all sorts of voices can gain steam, we'll not want to rely on big money MSM telling us what to care about. Right now, the MSM picks up on something juicy and we all react. I hope to see the day that the "something juicy" gets replaced with "something relevant" and doesn't come from an oligarchy that makes money on the reaction. This process, though, I believe will be long and painful.
Doubtful. With the rise of astroturfing and propaganda groups like Correct the Record, the line between independent thought and secret agenda continually blurs.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Can I ask your thoughts on Trump in the same light? I'm betting we'll find as much agreement between us but I promise you this is going somewhere.
Trump was born into money and privilege. He is not a brilliant businessman. He is not a self made man. I do not know what part of his character is authentic and what is an act, but either way his persona and the things that he says are terrifying. I do not believe it's worthwhile responding to his policy points because I do not know what is an actual belief and what is an outrageous statement to garner media attention. I have yet to see a policy expert that is not terrified by what Trump says and does. I believe he will look out for himself first and that he does not care for any average American for any reason other than what he can gain from them, whether it's tuition to Trump University or a vote toward becoming president. I believe his career has left a wake of failed businesses and ruined lives. I believe one cannot run a country in the same manner. I believe if he becomes president, whatever domestic policy he pushes will be to the detriment of the common American and will only benefit him, his image, or other billionaires. I believe whatever foreign policy he pushes will be to the detriment of the rest of the world and also to the world's perception of and relations with the US.
I don't believe he's honest. I don't believe he's just a guy who shoots from the hip and tells it like it is. I believe he would be in far over his head.
Doubtful. With the rise of astroturfing and propaganda groups like Correct the Record, the line between independent thought and secret agenda continually blurs.
Ah yes, however, I would counter that the citizens at large can & have exposed such efforts in the past. All of them? Definitely not, but the modern internet is still in it's infancy & society at large is still working out just what to do with it.
Smaller, independent internet-based publications are continually gaining mind-share, albeit at a snail's pace.
It's harder today than it was 30 years ago to fool the masses, as with the internet the message cannot be completely controlled. Snowden is a prime example of the grassroots will of the people overcoming the government's spin/obfuscation.
Trump was born into money and privilege. He is not a brilliant businessman. He is not a self made man. I do not know what part of his character is authentic and what is an act, but either way his persona and the things that he says are terrifying. I do not believe it's worthwhile responding to his policy points because I do not know what is an actual belief and what is an outrageous statement to garner media attention. I have yet to see a policy expert that is not terrified by what Trump says and does. I believe he will look out for himself first and that he does not care for any average American for any reason other than what he can gain from them, whether it's tuition to Trump University or a vote toward becoming president. I believe his career has left a wake of failed businesses and ruined lives. I believe one cannot run a country in the same manner. I believe if he becomes president, whatever domestic policy he pushes will be to the detriment of the common American and will only benefit him, his image, or other billionaires. I believe whatever foreign policy he pushes will be to the detriment of the rest of the world and also to the world's perception of and relations with the US.
I don't believe he's honest. I don't believe he's just a guy who shoots from the hip and tells it like it is. I believe he would be in far over his head.
We're in agreement once again here, damn close to 100%. So come November, do you vote Trump, HRC, 3rd party, or abstain? I ask this, because I had an idea for a modification to the election system - really want to get an idea of where your vote is going (or not) & why before bringing it up for critique.
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Aug 5, 2016, 04:12 PM
Iowa is a swing state so I can't afford to throw my vote away in order to make a statement, which means I'm stuck voting for one of the two. Hillary is the status quo. Her motives are abhorrent but mostly transparent. Corporations and Wall Street will continue to experience favoritism, income inequality will continue to grow, but everything will be the same. Who the hell knows with Trump? It could all be an act, or it could all be genuine. He is by nature brash, indigent, hostile, and tactless, and is proud of those qualities. His supporters tend toward uneducated at best and flagrantly racist at worst. This is not someone that should lead and represent America to the rest of the world.
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Last edited by Laminar; Aug 8, 2016 at 11:40 AM.
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Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Aug 5, 2016, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by subego
There's a bizarre irony to how much of Trump's appeal is rooted in him being this tough, take charge guy, when he behaves like such a loser.
And as with all things, I can't rule out that him "acting like a loser" isn't a carefully calculated maneuver. His hair is his signature. It's fodder for shitty late night hosts to joke about and it keeps him relevant. He got mad about someone saying he had small hands, which was something resembling an insecurity that Trump opponents could latch onto. Opponents harping on and on about his small hands only serves to discredit themselves for fussing about something a non-issue that almost appeared to be a chink in his armor but could have entirely been planned.
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Last edited by Laminar; Aug 8, 2016 at 11:41 AM.
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There's a bizarre irony to how much of Trump's appeal is rooted in him being this tough, take charge guy, when he behaves like such a loser.
Contrast that with Hillary. Hate her, hate her politics, she gets shit done, and will kick your ****ing ass.
Yeah.
I think what you're saying is that she's [Ivery ]competent[/I]. And everything that I see or read about her, especially from anyone who she's worked with, suggests the same thing - she is effective, works hard and gets results.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Contrast that with Hillary. Hate her, hate her politics, she gets shit done, and will kick your ****ing ass.
Nah, she'll just have you killed.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Yeah, we really don't need a gun grabbing old hag who will stack the SCOTUS to completely ruin the USA. She's just as big a LIAR and Obama, even worse as she can't even comprehend the FBI analysis of her wrongdoing. Democrat politics is all thats saving her, not the word of law.
Yeah, we really don't need a gun grabbing old hag who will stack the SCOTUS to completely ruin the USA. She's just as big a LIAR and Obama, even worse as she can't even comprehend the FBI analysis of her wrongdoing. Democrat politics is all thats saving her, not the word of law.
Growth? How about being around since Watergate, and watching liberals and conservatives be assholes. I know the difference between liberals who do NOT connect to reality and conservatives who eat the young. Its wisdom and experience. Liberals by definition do not see reality, but see a fictional version filled with stereotypes and soap opera plots. This is why they think fictional movies are true documentaries. They talk to one another, telling each other what they HEARD from another liberal, but get it wrong when they repeat it, so after 4-5 tellings it's completely wrong. Liberals do not read.
and yet liberal values built the world you live in.
Weird
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
Western liberalism != "liberals". We have some great liberals ex. Dave Rubin, but most now are regressive twits, ex. Cenk Uecker. Every passing year the Left is becoming more authoritarian and corrupt, and liberalism is falling prey to cultural Marxism and "intersectionality". Now that Buzzfeed editors control all that's seen on Facebook, and Twitter is ruled by its Trust and Safety Council (can't get much more Orwellian than that), we're about to see what "progressive" social engineering really looks like. I hope you enjoy your new classification of "racist cis-het white male", because the amount of guilt that's about to be heaped on your head is going to suffocate you.
Get ready to pay your reparations for the last 500+ years. Screw the; "equality of sex, race, religion, healthcare, and education" Western society has brought the world, now it's only seen as oppression.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Yes, society is adjusting to try to self-correct it's injustices, and yes overcompensation and mistakes will continue to happen along the way, but how you see this as negative is beyond me.
This process has brought us gay marriage and better acceptance of gays, accommodation of all sorts of disability or syndrome (e.g. Autism) and clearly it is working towards trying to figure out relations between cops and black people, which is clearly a problem that is apparent.
Because you choose to focus on the goofy stuff and mistakes being made (and you made a big thread about it) is just weird to me. Do you want to shut down this entire process? Just what is your goal? To point out that it can get goofy sometimes? Okay, water is also wet.
I'm pro-gay all over the place, and I give genuine thanks to those on the left without which we wouldn't be nearly as close to equality as we are now.
What I have a problem with is the segment of the left who wants the people who disagree to go on the "enemies list".
I think it is very hard to tell the difference between:
1) grounded ideological disagreement (e.g. tax rates)
2) issues where there is no absolute truth with our current level of knowledge (e.g. the concept of life when it comes to aborting fetuses)
3) disagreement based on ignorance or just backwards thinking (e.g. that blacks should be held as slaves, to use an extreme example).
Many people confuse this. For example, liberals might assign things to the third category when it is the first. However, this is not just a mistake that liberals make as per CTP's crusade, it is a human mistake. Religious conservatives are just as likely to conflate category two with one of the others. I guess as a society we are just used to and tolerant of religious nonsense in various forms, whereas things like gender neutral bathrooms are new territory for us.
I think it is very hard to tell the difference between:
1) grounded ideological disagreement (e.g. tax rates) 2) issues where there is no absolute truth with our current level of knowledge (e.g. the concept of life when it comes to aborting fetuses)
3) disagreement based on ignorance or just backwards thinking (e.g. that blacks should be held as slaves, to use an extreme example).
Many people confuse this. For example, liberals might assign things to the third category when it is the first. However, this is not just a mistake that liberals make as per CTP's crusade, it is a human mistake. Religious conservatives are just as likely to conflate category two with one of the others. I guess as a society we are just used to and tolerant of religious nonsense in various forms, whereas things like gender neutral bathrooms are new territory for us.
We've been through this before. For your reading pleasure.
Keith Moore and T.V.N Persaud’s textbook The Developing Human
These books are mention in this video, along with quotes from two pro abortion advocates.
The philosopher David Boonin writes in his book A Defense of Abortion, “[T]he most straightforward relation between you and me on the one hand and every human fetus on the other is this: All are living members of the same species, homo sapiens. A human fetus after all is simply a human being at a very early stage in his or her development.” Pro-choice philosopher Peter Singer writes in his book Practical Ethics, “there is no doubt that from the first moments of its existence an embryo conceived from human sperm and eggs is a human being.”
Iowa is a swing state so I can't afford to throw my vote away in order to make a statement, which means I'm stuck voting for one of the two. Hillary is the status quo. Her motives are abhorrent but mostly transparent. Corporations and Wall Street will continue to experience favoritism, income inequality will continue to grow, but everything will be the same. Who the hell knows with Trump? It could all be an act, or it could all be genuine. He is by nature brash, indigent, hostile, and tactless, and is proud of those qualities. His supporters tend toward uneducated at best and flagrantly racist at worst. This is not someone that should lead and represent America to the rest of the world.
This is among the most sensible and balanced summaries I've read anywhere. I get that people don't like Hillary for a boat load of reasons which themselves are good and bad, but there is not one single aspect where she is inferior to or worse than Trump.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
For me its more about awareness than the beginning of life, and then you have to also weigh the quality of life of an unwanted child and the effect it will have on its parents etc. I believe abortion should be allowed up to a point. I'm not actually sure what I think that point should be, but I'm happy to air on the side of caution if a woman still has a fair window to learn she is pregnant and give the matter due consideration.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Yes, society is adjusting to try to self-correct it's injustices, and yes overcompensation and mistakes will continue to happen along the way, but how you see this as negative is beyond me.
This process has brought us gay marriage and better acceptance of gays, accommodation of all sorts of disability or syndrome (e.g. Autism) and clearly it is working towards trying to figure out relations between cops and black people, which is clearly a problem that is apparent.
I know it is. It's already "overcompensated", at the expense of everyone's civil liberties. In Europe thoughtcrime is now real (and in the US it's permeating through our universities, which is where it started over there), people are being imprisoned for unpopular views, and if history has taught us anything, it isn't just the unpopular speech that will eventually be silenced. Humans are notorious for pushback, as animals we only allow ourselves to be cornered for so long, and when we do? Holy shit, is it bad. You think a little nationalism and anti-PC rhetoric is as bad as it can get now? You ain't seen nothin' yet.
The far-Right parties are set for a takeover, and when they do, or even worse, if elections are suspended or rigged, we're going to see a fecal missile the likes of which we've not seen in nearly a century hit the political propeller blades, undoing all your progressive gains, and likely sparking the next world war with the M.E.. Brexit was the canary in the coal mine, but the Left is ignoring it, or worse, heaping even more ridicule, which is fanning the flames.
Because you choose to focus on the goofy stuff and mistakes being made (and you made a big thread about it) is just weird to me.
Because negative feedback over "progressive" ideology angers you, and you find criticism of it akin to blasphemy.
Do you want to shut down this entire process? Just what is your goal? To point out that it can get goofy sometimes? Okay, water is also wet.
You not being able to see how the "process" is about to explode in your face is much more "goofy".
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Don't any of you know any history in detail older than a few weeks?
History hasn't been taught in public school for quite some time. YouTube is filled with videos of people who go out on the street/beach and asks what should be easy history questions and get some strange answers.
History hasn't been taught in public school for quite some time. YouTube is filled with videos of people who go out on the street/beach and asks what should be easy history questions and get some strange answers.
Yep. You're right. I find reading history, especially from old newspapers (1870's and later) very interesting. Imagine the few primitive technologies back then, and how secluded the small towns and communities were. Long distance communication was telegraph, or pony express, and later, mail delivered via the railroads. Travel was by horse or rail or foot. Ships were still mostly powered by sail. You had ice boxes instead of freezers. No movies for entertainment until 1890's but still primitive. Instead of the wonders of special effects, you watched famous stage magicians. Everybody wore hats.
Yep. You're right. I find reading history, especially from old newspapers (1870's and later) very interesting. Imagine the few primitive technologies back then, and how secluded the small towns and communities were. Long distance communication was telegraph, or pony express, and later, mail delivered via the railroads. Travel was by horse or rail or foot. Ships were still mostly powered by sail. You had ice boxes instead of freezers. No movies for entertainment until 1890's but still primitive. Instead of the wonders of special effects, you watched famous stage magicians. Everybody wore hats.
Its cute that history to you guys runs to a whole 150 years or so. I think my house is older than your country.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
And those liberal values that built that world are now our conservative values. i.e. the values that conservatives are attempting to preserve.
Which would be fine if so many of you weren't also looking to preserve things like ass-backwards religious views, slavery, misogyny and the exploitation of the poor.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Iowa is a swing state so I can't afford to throw my vote away in order to make a statement, which means I'm stuck voting for one of the two. Hillary is the status quo. Her motives are abhorrent but mostly transparent. Corporations and Wall Street will continue to experience favoritism, income inequality will continue to grow, but everything will be the same. Who the hell knows with Trump? It could all be an act, or it could all be genuine. He is by nature brash, indigent, hostile, and tactless, and is proud of those qualities. His supporters tend toward uneducated at best and flagrantly racist at worst. This is not someone that should lead and represent America to the rest of the world.
That's well put, and, I might add, completely practical. A protest vote is nothing more than a feel good act. Withholding your vote is merely abdicating responsibility. But hey, I understand it can be a Sophie's choice. I've been challenging myself to find an equal one and the best I could come up with it choosing between Trump and Cruz. I honestly can't decide which is worse.
Can I ask who you voted for in the previous two Presidential elections? For some reason I think it's McCain and Obama, but really, my memory can't be trusted on something so specific.
Which would be fine if so many of you weren't also looking to preserve things like ass-backwards religious views, slavery, misogyny and the exploitation of the poor.
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Aug 9, 2016, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Can I ask who you voted for in the previous two Presidential elections? For some reason I think it's McCain and Obama, but really, my memory can't be trusted on something so specific.
Dr. Marc Seigel said "the public has a right to know" and speculated on what the issue could be but was more interested in previous spills and a concussion she had in 2012.
"I think the public has a right to know," Seigel said. "We're talking in 2008, Sean, I looked over a thousand pages of John McCain's records because of a melanoma he had 10 years ago. What about Hillary? In 2009, a severe fall. She breaks her elbow. In 2011, she boards a plane, falls. In 2012 she has a severe concussion which Bill Clinton says took her six months to recover from.
"Then she ends up with a blood-clot in the brain and a lifetime of blood thinners," Seigel said. "Just that point alone -- if she's prone to falling, you can see from that picture up there that it looked like she can barely get upstairs without two people carrying her. Guess what if she falls and hits her head? She'll get a blood-clot."
"I want to know what her neurological records show," he added.
"The picture going up the stairs speaks a million words," Dr. David Samadi said. "Is she fatigued? Is she dehydrated? One of the main reasons she fell in 2012 and had the concussions was severe dehydration. They're holding her and going up the stairs. So she may be really dehydrated, she may have arthritis, she may have back pain, she may have fallen again. We don't know. There are questions that are unanswered. What we know today is she's on thyroid medication, she suffers from hypothyroid, low thyroid, that can cause fatigue and gaining weight and all of that."
"I think a traumatic brain injury with symptoms down the road is very, very likely here especially since she had a blood-clot on her brain. As David mentioned that could lead to a seizure problem. Someone is carrying a [diazepam] pen that you'd use in case of a seizure, a Valium pen, that makes me wonder about that," Dr. Seigel said.
Which would be fine if so many of you weren't also looking to preserve things like ass-backwards religious views, slavery, misogyny and the exploitation of the poor.
Some may be, but the vast majority are not. Please don't confuse the majority of republicans with the fringe idiots or corrupt politicians (there's plenty of those on the left, too).
As for the religious views - those are enshrined in the 1A. You don't have to agree with the message in order to support one's ability to have it. The ends never justify the means.
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