[kenna]

Originally Posted by vertigociel 

Overall, the new iMac is indeed faster. Keep in mind that the older iMac was a top-of-the-line 24 Inch Model, and the new iMac is the cheapest, lowest-spec, stock configuration. That should put things in perspective.

Thanks a lot!! That sounds sweet, see I really want one,but people are doing their best to put me off, with the screen and all, makes me feel like im buying an inadequate computer.

[CheesePuff]

Originally Posted by mavherzog 

Yikes. Don't buy a computer on credit. Save up and wait till you can afford it.

Amen to that! Huge mistake that I'm still paying for, and I don't even have the PowerBook anymore.

[AC Rempt]

Y'all are assuming that people get out of debt. I'm a good American, so that's never the case, and all my debt kinda runs together. I've bought machines on credit, but the debt just blends into the giant pool of student loans, mortgages and various other sins. When I get rid of a computer, I have no idea if I'm still paying on it or not most of the time. I just keep paying.

If you have the money, go cash, but if not, God Bless America!

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by kenna 

Thanks a lot!! That sounds sweet, see I really want one,but people are doing their best to put me off, with the screen and all, makes me feel like im buying an inadequate computer.

I hear ya, kenna. There will always be naysayers, but don't listen to them. I played with the new iMacs at the Raleigh Apple Store yesterday and they were sweet. Given, the new design isn't a huge departure from its predecessor, but it's a bit classier and more refined. I noticed some glare from the glass display cover, but it was a very minor problem. In fact, I don't even think it deserves to be called a "problem." For those photographers and graphic designers out there who have a good reason to be uptight about glossy displays.....well, that's one thing. But for the rest of us, I'm thinking glossy is a good thing. After all, it makes for a nicer-looking computer!

I have to take issue with Apple about removing the number pad from the wireless keyboard, as well as for removing the magnetic remote holder. But, once again, these are minor issues--certainly not significant enough to prevent my purchasing one of these babies when my wallet becomes a bit more rotund.

But don't listen to those who tell you that your computer is inadequate. I've seen it so many times: you HAVE to max out your memory, you HAVE to get the largest display, you HAVE to upgrade your video card, you HAVE to get the fastest processor. Blah blah. This is a great computer. Period.

[awaspaas]

Well you're obviously an idiot for buying a computer with such a ridiculously inferior graphics card. It's basically a doorstop with that graphics card. It won't even play solitaire! 256 colors max - 640x480 resolution. You might even have trouble word processing with that graphics card.

Just kidding, I just bought one today too!

[dbranham]

lol

[Night9Hawk]

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

Y'all are assuming that people get out of debt. I'm a good American, so that's never the case, and all my debt kinda runs together. I've bought machines on credit, but the debt just blends into the giant pool of student loans, mortgages and various other sins. When I get rid of a computer, I have no idea if I'm still paying on it or not most of the time. I just keep paying.

If you have the money, go cash, but if not, God Bless America!

A little bit off-topic, but roughly two-thirds of people in the USA who use credit cards pay off the balances in full at the end of each billing cycle. Credit and credit cards are a wonderful thing, but as with most things need to be used wisely.

[Night9Hawk]

I had a chance to work with one of the new iMacs over the weekend. I helped a customer set up a 24" iMac as a replacement for a 15" G4 iMac. Here are some observations, in no particular order.

- Apple has carried on the tradition of making the edges of the iMac sharp, which makes carrying the iMac in your hands rather unpleasant. (I have occasion to carry my from place to place at least once a week.)

- Overall I like the new keyboard. The feel of it, as noted by other people in this thread, is surprisingly nice. One interesting feature I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere is that the bottom of the keyboard is plastic, not metal as was shown in those pre-release pictures that were floating around the Internet a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure that I like the re-arrangement of the function keys on the keyboard, since I tend to be a bit of a hobgoblin when it comes to change.

- I think Apple should include a FW-800 to FW-400 adaptor since the vast majority of people still use FW-400 devices and without the adaptor the system is pretty much a single firewire port system. I know that people are free to buy their own but when you're looking to plug something in at 10:00 PM at night you're more likely to just daisy-chain devices in order to get things up and running rather ordering an adaptor and waiting a few days.

- The system had speed to burn. I didn't try doing any big projects but with just the routine things there wasn't even the hint of hesitation even though it had the stock 1 GB of RAM in it. I imagine I'll be hearing from the owner at some point in the near future though since he does a lot of DVD creation and will probably want to upgrade the RAM to at least 2 GB.

- I'm pretty sure I didn't see the latest version of Quicken on the hard drive. I don't think Comic Life was on there either. Question to those out there who bought the new systems: What bundled software do the new iMacs have?

Personally I'll probably upgrade as we get closer to the release of Leopard.

[vertigociel]

Originally Posted by Night9Hawk 

I'm pretty sure I didn't see the latest version of Quicken on the hard drive. I don't think Comic Life was on there either. Question to those out there who bought the new systems: What bundled software do the new iMacs have?

Nope, no Comic Life (not a big loss - did anyone actually use this program?). Quicken isn't there, neither is OmniOutliner. The only things that were packaged on mine were iLife '08, iWork '08 Trial, and the Office 2004 Trial, along with the default OS X apps.

Thanks a lot!! That sounds sweet, see I really want one,but people are doing their best to put me off, with the screen and all, makes me feel like im buying an inadequate computer.

If you really want the computer, by all means get it. The glossy screen is largely a matter of personal aesthetic - some people like it, some people don't. You're a far better judge of whether or not you'll like it than naysayers are. It is a fantastic machine, and I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[imacman]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

I hear ya, kenna. There will always be naysayers, but don't listen to them.

Yeah, it couldn't be we have PROOF that the old model is faster or anything.

[Mojo]

Buying anything on credit that isn't absolutely necessary is a very bad idea. Debt=Lack of Freedom. If you have debt then your choices are limited... you may have to work more hours than you would like or remain in a job that you don't like, among other things...

Several years ago we paid off everything... our house and credit cards. We don't buy anything that we cannot afford and we tend to live more simply than most because the last thing we need is More Stuff. When we do buy something we go for high quality and expect to use it for many years. We buy new cars but keep them at least ten years; my wife drives a '93 Corolla and I have a '94 Toyota 4X4 truck. Since both vehicles are well maintained and very reliable we see no reason to replace them anytime soon.

The upside of being debt-free? Neither of us has to work full-time and we have the money to travel when we want. Unexpected expenses are No Big Deal because we have sufficient savings to cover it. We can save for retirement. Our stress levels are low...

The only acceptable debt in my opinion are student loans, but only if you are entering a profession where you can handle repayment, a house and a car, although I would try to buy used to get the best value for the buck. Having a lot of debt when you are young is a terrible idea, and accumulating debt in order to buy optional consumer items is a sure way to become a Wage Slave.

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by imacman 

Yeah, it couldn't be we have PROOF that the old model is faster or anything.

imacman, can you offer objective proof that the glossy screen is inferior? Sure, it produces more glare. But it's also brighter. Can you offer proof that the aluminum casing is inferior to plastic? Can you offer proof that silver is inferior to white?

I'm simply pointing out that forumers have not stopped trashing this thing from the minute it was released. There can be no objective showing that this computer is, in whole, worse than the previous model.

Also, why the nippy sarcasm? Please tell me why you couldn't have simply said something like, "the new machine is inferior because it has been proven slower than its predecessor." Instead, you reverted to needless (and unsolicited) condescending sarcasm. Geez, that's what drives me crazy about these forums. It seems like people lie in wait for someone to say something with which they disagree, and then they jump all over the person.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

Also, why the nippy sarcasm? Please tell me why you couldn't have simply said something like, "the new machine is inferior because it has been proven slower than its predecessor." Instead, you reverted to needless (and unsolicited) condescending sarcasm. Geez, that's what drives me crazy about these forums. It seems like people lie in wait for someone to say something with which they disagree, and then they jump all over the person.

Welcome to the internets.

[kenna]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

I hear ya, kenna. There will always be naysayers, but don't listen to them. I played with the new iMacs at the Raleigh Apple Store yesterday and they were sweet. Given, the new design isn't a huge departure from its predecessor, but it's a bit classier and more refined. I noticed some glare from the glass display cover, but it was a very minor problem. In fact, I don't even think it deserves to be called a "problem." For those photographers and graphic designers out there who have a good reason to be uptight about glossy displays.....well, that's one thing. But for the rest of us, I'm thinking glossy is a good thing. After all, it makes for a nicer-looking computer!

I have to take issue with Apple about removing the number pad from the wireless keyboard, as well as for removing the magnetic remote holder. But, once again, these are minor issues--certainly not significant enough to prevent my purchasing one of these babies when my wallet becomes a bit more rotund.

But don't listen to those who tell you that your computer is inadequate. I've seen it so many times: you HAVE to max out your memory, you HAVE to get the largest display, you HAVE to upgrade your video card, you HAVE to get the fastest processor. Blah blah. This is a great computer. Period.

Sold! Thanks a lot for your reply, was really really helpful to me! Im definitely getting me one of these babies In fact i'd love to make my own little family

Im going to look at one on Sunday, so hopefully I will love it and start saving, im hoping my purchase will be around october....upon release of leopard, exciting!!!

Thanks a lot i'll be back with my thoughts soon

[dbranham]

Congratulations, Kenna. You won't be disappointed. Let us know your impressions.

[Night9Hawk]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

Buying anything on credit that isn't absolutely necessary is a very bad idea. Debt=Lack of Freedom. If you have debt then your choices are limited... you may have to work more hours than you would like or remain in a job that you don't like, among other things...

Several years ago we paid off everything... our house and credit cards. We don't buy anything that we cannot afford and we tend to live more simply than most because the last thing we need is More Stuff. When we do buy something we go for high quality and expect to use it for many years. We buy new cars but keep them at least ten years; my wife drives a '93 Corolla and I have a '94 Toyota 4X4 truck. Since both vehicles are well maintained and very reliable we see no reason to replace them anytime soon.

The upside of being debt-free? Neither of us has to work full-time and we have the money to travel when we want. Unexpected expenses are No Big Deal because we have sufficient savings to cover it. We can save for retirement. Our stress levels are low...

The only acceptable debt in my opinion are student loans, but only if you are entering a profession where you can handle repayment, a house and a car, although I would try to buy used to get the best value for the buck. Having a lot of debt when you are young is a terrible idea, and accumulating debt in order to buy optional consumer items is a sure way to become a Wage Slave.

The point I was trying to make is that most people that use credit cards pay off their balance in full at the when they get the bill. Only about 1/3 of Americans actually carry a balance. Of course this doesn't include mortgages or car loans, but those loans are typically issued at much lower interest rates and a home is an appreciating asset over the long run.

Credit cards make it possible for people to transact all sorts of business without having to carry large amounts of cash with them. For example, I ordered several 2.5" hard drive cases from an online website. I got roughly 25% off the list price of the case and it ships tonight. Short of a return to COD there is no other way I could have done the transaction as easily or quickly.

You say you travel. Do you travel overseas? Do you carry large amounts of cash with you when you do and spend time changing money? When I travel overseas I get money from ATMs using my regular ATM card-the fees are lower than if you go to an money changer-and use my credit card to pay for things like meals and hotels. When I get home I just write a check to cover all the expenses and send it off to the credit card company. I don't think I've paid a fee or interest to a credit card company since 1989.

Oh, and the mortgage will be paid off next month.

[Night9Hawk]

[QUOTE=vertigociel;3454904]Nope, no Comic Life (not a big loss - did anyone actually use this program?). Quicken isn't there, neither is OmniOutliner. The only things that were packaged on mine were iLife '08, iWork '08 Trial, and the Office 2004 Trial, along with the default OS X apps.

Actually, Comic Life was fun to play with. I used it to sell a couple of Macs to people with kids who like to play around with images. OmniDraw and OmniOutliner were also useful sometimes but they're not hard to get if you need that sort of thing. But not having Quicken is a shame. It was always nice to get that free upgrade so I could thumb my nose at Intuit when they'd pester me to upgrade. (They still think I'm running Quicken 2000 for some odd reason.)

[imacman]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

imacman, can you offer objective proof that the glossy screen is inferior? Sure, it produces more glare.

http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac...health-hazard/

But it's also brighter.

Can you provide PROOF of that? The WHITE 24" iMac has a rather obnoxiously bright screen. Since the day I have recieved it, it has never been turned up past 'all the way dim', because it's screen is a full 40% brighter than the G5 iMac's screens were. It is RIDICULOUSLY briight, and I don't think 'glossyness', increases brightness.

Can you offer proof that the aluminum casing is inferior to plastic? Can you offer proof that silver is inferior to white?

I have never complained about the color, or the materials. Personally aluminum would match my system better, but I'm not 'downgrading' to a craptastic graphics card. No thanks. I have complained about the same things, over and over again, none of which were related to the color. I'm not even going to mention them again out of fear of bannination.

I'm simply pointing out that forumers have not stopped trashing this thing from the minute it was released. There can be no objective showing that this computer is, in whole, worse than the previous model.

Yes, THERE CAN.

The graphics are SLOWER and CRAPPIER and MORE OUTDATED. The screen causes more glare, and glare is BAD. Other than that, most of the changes are just cosmetic, and I really don't care. The CPU is SLIGHTLY faster, but that doesn't really matter because if I start thinking mine is too slow, I can just hop over to pricewatch and order a faster one. CPUs are easy to upgrade now that Apple's switched to intel.

Also, why the nippy sarcasm? Please tell me why you couldn't have simply said something like, "the new machine is inferior because it has been proven slower than its predecessor." Instead, you reverted to needless (and unsolicited) condescending sarcasm. Geez, that's what drives me crazy about these forums. It seems like people lie in wait for someone to say something with which they disagree, and then they jump all over the person.

Because you Apple apologists are RIDICULOUS. They are shipping their NEWER computers with INFERIOR specs, like a crappier, cheaper GPU, and instead of admitting it, you people are trying to convince those of us with brains that it is actually an improvement. Apple saves money by cutting the 'matte finish' on the LCDs, and you people defend them saying you 'prefer' them or they look 'brighter', or some other such nonsense when SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE CRT, EVERY COMPANY HAS STRIVED TO REDUCE GLARE BECAUSE GLARE SUCKS ASS.

I mean jesus christ. If Apple released a new 'imac' that was just a Dell with an apple logo for twice hte price, some people here would HONESTLY defend them, because they have lost their ability to reason, and have strengthened only their ability to worship Steve Jobs like a freakin' god. He is selling a computer with MARGINALLY better CPU, and a different color, with an inferior LCD, and FAR inferior graphics as an 'upgrade'. That is BS.

[CheesePuff]

Originally Posted by imacman 

Because you Apple apologists are RIDICULOUS. They are shipping their NEWER computers with INFERIOR specs, like a crappier, cheaper GPU, and instead of admitting it, you people are trying to convince those of us with brains that it is actually an improvement. Apple saves money by cutting the 'matte finish' on the LCDs, and you people defend them saying you 'prefer' them or they look 'brighter', or some other such nonsense when SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE CRT, EVERY COMPANY HAS STRIVED TO REDUCE GLARE BECAUSE GLARE SUCKS ASS.

Ship's with a faster processor, system bus, larger hard drive, improved monitor (specs are different from the previous 24") along with new, updated software yet this has inferior specs? Oh, you mean the ATI Radeon 2600 XT which has very similar specs to the 7300 GT but the driver's are still not as pristine as it? Yea, ok.

[hldan]

Wow, I'm just reading all of these negative comments about the new iMac. I just sold my dualie G5 and Cinema display to buy one of these lovely 24" beauties. The negative comments are laughable because this machine is selling like crazy. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area where the majority of all of the Apple retail stores reside and none of them have the computer in stock. I had to end up ordering mine from the website and they are now back ordered and the shipping times were just increased. Less hype than the iPhone and more sales.
They did lower the price by $200.00 U.S so it's not like your paying the same for a lesser computer.
The graphics solution may not satisfy the extreme gamers but my old dualie G5 had the ATI Radeon X800 and that was great enough for me to play Quake 4 and I'm sure the X2600 HD kicks the crap out of the X800 card. My point is to me this is a big upgrade and I happen to like the glossy screen. Sure it reflects light but it's no biggie.
Again, the negative comments are laughable. I think the real issue behind all of it are trolls in the forum and other's who bought the older model just a few weeks ago and are secretly pissed what they could have got if they waited so to vent their frustrations they try and annoy the potential buyers. Well don't worry, the machine is selling hot anyway.

[Andhee]

Originally Posted by hldan 

Again, the negative comments are laughable. I think the real issue behind all of it are trolls in the forum and other's who bought the older model just a few weeks ago and are secretly pissed what they could have got if they waited so to vent their frustrations they try and annoy the potential buyers. Well don't worry, the machine is selling hot anyway.

Amen, new iMac all the way.

[MacNNUK]

For comparison, i've just XBenched my trusty old G3 600mhz iMac, 512mb, 10.3.9

XBench = 11.48

Quite slow !

And this is the one I quite like:

Originally Posted by vertigociel 

Here's the Xbench result (this is on the stock 2.0 GHz 20 inch model w/1GB RAM) -

Results 132.66

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by CheesePuff 

Ship's with a faster processor, system bus, larger hard drive, improved monitor (specs are different from the previous 24") along with new, updated software yet this has inferior specs? Oh, you mean the ATI Radeon 2600 XT which has very similar specs to the 7300 GT but the driver's are still not as pristine as it? Yea, ok.

1. CPUs can easily be upgraded.
2. System bus speed is pretty meaningless.
3. Hard drives can be easily upgradeded.
4. It is NOT an improved monitor. AT ALL. It is vastly INFERIOR. See here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=24321625 and here: http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac...health-hazard/

And it's not slower because of the drivers. It's slower because it is a cheaper, slower card.

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by hldan 

Wow, I'm just reading all of these negative comments about the new iMac. I just sold my dualie G5 and Cinema display to buy one of these lovely 24" beauties. The negative comments are laughable because this machine is selling like crazy. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area where the majority of all of the Apple retail stores reside and none of them have the computer in stock. I had to end up ordering mine from the website and they are now back ordered and the shipping times were just increased. Less hype than the iPhone and more sales.
They did lower the price by $200.00 U.S so it's not like your paying the same for a lesser computer.
The graphics solution may not satisfy the extreme gamers but my old dualie G5 had the ATI Radeon X800 and that was great enough for me to play Quake 4 and I'm sure the X2600 HD kicks the crap out of the X800 card. My point is to me this is a big upgrade and I happen to like the glossy screen. Sure it reflects light but it's no biggie.
Again, the negative comments are laughable. I think the real issue behind all of it are trolls in the forum and other's who bought the older model just a few weeks ago and are secretly pissed what they could have got if they waited so to vent their frustrations they try and annoy the potential buyers. Well don't worry, the machine is selling hot anyway.

Actually I bought mine at the beginning of this year. I'm not pissed about the new ones because I want one; I'm pissed because I actually wanted to upgrade to a BETTER iMac, but right now, in terms of performance, the older ones are faster for anything that uses the graphics card. I wanted to give Apple money for a faster, BETTER iMac. Instead they released a silver, slower version.

[dbranham]

imacman, you just proved my point. Upgraded CPU, larger hard drive, thinner, LOWER PRICE, etc. How can you point out some of these upgrades, and then conclude that the machine is unequivocally inferior? Then, to highlight your own analytical deficiencies, you accuse us of lacking the ability to reason.

If ALL you care about is screen glare or high-end gaming capabilities, then maybe the new iMac isn't right for you. But, for most of us, those are marginal concerns. Therefore, the new iMac is simply not a clearly inferior pc to its predecessors.

Before accusing us of wearing blinders and only seeing the good side of Apple, perhaps it is you who should take a hard look at himself. You give me the strong impression of one who loves to hate everything you encounter, and who's favorite pastime is to rant.

[vertigociel]

I wasn't going to feed the trolls, but...

1. CPUs can easily be upgraded.
2. System bus speed is pretty meaningless.
3. Hard drives can be easily upgraded.
4. It is NOT an improved monitor. AT ALL. It is vastly INFERIOR. See here: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=24321625 and here: http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac...health-hazard/

And it's not slower because of the drivers. It's slower because it is a cheaper, slower card.

1. Which does not change the fact that it is shipping with a higher spec CPU.
2. No, it's not. This revision has a 20% faster system bus. The system bus is how the processor interfaces with the RAM, and the rest of the computer. The faster bus has been shown to produce reliably higher RAM data transfer speeds (take a look at the Xbench database, and compare any pre-Santa Rosa C2D machine and the equivalent current model. The Santa Rosa always has higher memory test scores).
3. Which also does not change the fact that this model has a better hard drive, as well. Would rather have a system with no CPU or Hard drive? They can be easily, upgraded, after all. Heck, you can also buy a motherboard, GPU, wireless card... let's just sell you a case, okay?
4. That's your personal preference. Some people like the increased richness and saturation of the glossy screens, some people find the reflections annoying. I should also add that Apple Stores have loads of bright track lighting, which maximizes glare.
5. I cite this review of the Radeon HD 2600 XT 256 MB (default in the 2.4 and 2.8 GHz models), which shows the 7300 GT 256 MB getting trounced in every test.

You may not like the aesthetic decisions of the new iMac. That's perfectly fine, it's your opinion. But please, accept that other's opinions may differ from yours.

Originally Posted by MacNNUK 

For comparison, i've just XBenched my trusty old G3 600mhz iMac, 512mb, 10.3.9

XBench = 11.48

Quite slow !

11.48? Wow. Old school! The new iMac is going to absolutely scream compared to that.

[D.O.G.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by vertigociel 

I wasn't going to feed the trolls, but...

1. Which does not change the fact that it is shipping with a higher spec CPU.
2. No, it's not. This revision has a 20% faster system bus. The system bus is how the processor interfaces with the RAM, and the rest of the computer. The faster bus has been shown to produce reliably higher RAM data transfer speeds (take a look at the Xbench database, and compare any pre-Santa Rosa C2D machine and the equivalent current model. The Santa Rosa always has higher memory test scores).
3. Which also does not change the fact that this model has a better hard drive, as well. Would rather have a system with no CPU or Hard drive? They can be easily, upgraded, after all. Heck, you can also buy a motherboard, GPU, wireless card... let's just sell you a case, okay?
4. That's your personal preference. Some people like the increased richness and saturation of the glossy screens, some people find the reflections annoying. I should also add that Apple Stores have loads of bright track lighting, which maximizes glare.
5. I cite this review of the Radeon HD 2600 XT 256 MB (default in the 2.4 and 2.8 GHz models), which shows the 7300 GT 256 MB getting trounced in every test.

1. So? My point is it can be upgraded. Also, according to mosts test, it really isn't much faster, CPU wise. I'd much rather have competitive graphics than .5% faster photoshop renderings.

2. System bus shymstem bus. It really doesn't matter in the real world.

3. Actually yeah I would buy that. Then I could configure it the way I wanted it to. Unfortunately, Apple does not offer that option, and if you want an 'upgradeable' tower they want you to spend an arm and a leg, even though a $300 emachines can easily be upgraded.

4. Why oh why has every display company since the invention of the CRT strives to MINIMIZE glare? Please tell me you aren't telling me that the latest 'glossy trend' makes sense against 60+ years of display technology.

5. That's great and all, but the iMac does not come with a 2600XT. It comes with a 2600 PRO, which is a LOT slower.

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by D.O.G.S. CEO 

4. Why oh why has every display company since the invention of the CRT strives to MINIMIZE glare? Please tell me you aren't telling me that the latest 'glossy trend' makes sense against 60+ years of display technology.

5. That's great and all, but the iMac does not come with a 2600XT. It comes with a 2600 PRO, which is a LOT slower.

4. Please. LCDs weren't around 60 years ago. Don't infer a 60 year trend in design technology from 5 years of reality.

5. 2600 Pro STILL trounced the 7300GT , no?

[Tarcat]

I got one today too. The 24" 2.8. The screen really has to be seen to be believed. Incredible quality to it. Like nothing i've ever seen. So far the downside has been really poor performance in Aperature. Must be a software issue because the latest version is running slower than on my MacBook. So much so that its virtually unusable at times. You can't even force quit.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

4. Please. LCDs weren't around 60 years ago. Don't infer a 60 year trend in design technology from 5 years of reality.

5. 2600 Pro STILL trounced the 7300GT , no?

Yes, and in some of the F.E.A.R tests it trounced the 7600 GT. It still fell short a lot but I'm sure this card is not going to piss off the gamers while they are actually playing the games. I do agree the 8600 GT in the MBP should have also been inside the iMac but at the same time Apple lowered the price by $200.00 U.S. Overall the iMac gives quite a bit against the competition for AIO's. Sony's AIO is nothing short of a huge joke. A 19" overly saturated glossy screen with underpowered merom CPU's and an aging GPU starting at $1699 U.S and ending at $2099 U.S for a 2 Ghz kitchen TV.
The iMacs offer so much more for less and they look good for office or living room or kitchen.
Before the naysayers slam Apple's new iMac they should take a look at the competition offering the same design machine.

[Trouble]

I have been waiting for the new iMacs to get out of using this windows system.
After a trip to the Apple store on Sunday I won't be getting the new iMac.
I wasn't able to read lettering in web pages inspite the stores effort by turning off all the overhead track lighting.
I had to view the screen from a rather sharp angle.
...and mostly the fact that it's not shippping with Leopard.
If they change the screen option when they ship Leopard I may very well purchase the basic 20" model to satisfy my needs for an internet, word processing, picture viewing and iTunes machine. Thats all.
If I want performance I'll look elsewhere.

[mavherzog]

Originally Posted by Mojo 

Several years ago we paid off everything...

That's awesome.

We are in the process of doing the same thing. Should be down to just the mortgage by Thanksgiving. I don't know how much damage we are going to be able to do to that mortgage in the short term though.

I'm VERY much against ANY unsecured debt. Unsecured, revolving credit (ala credit cards) are pure evil as far as I'm concerned. I've seen them ruin lives, destroy marriages, etc. It's just way too easy to bury yourself in debt.

You do NOT need a standard credit card to keep from carrying around cash. A simple cash/check card (debit card) works just like a credit card and draws from the balance in your checking account. HIGHLY recommended!

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by Trouble 

I have been waiting for the new iMacs to get out of using this windows system.
After a trip to the Apple store on Sunday I won't be getting the new iMac.
I wasn't able to read lettering in web pages inspite the stores effort by turning off all the overhead track lighting.
I had to view the screen from a rather sharp angle.
...and mostly the fact that it's not shippping with Leopard.
If they change the screen option when they ship Leopard I may very well purchase the basic 20" model to satisfy my needs for an internet, word processing, picture viewing and iTunes machine. Thats all.
If I want performance I'll look elsewhere.

LOL. Sorry, this is the 3rd time I've seen this exact post from you. I take it you've chosen not to purchase the new iMac?

[Dagny]

Originally Posted by dbranham 

4. Please. LCDs weren't around 60 years ago. Don't infer a 60 year trend in design technology from 5 years of reality.

5. 2600 Pro STILL trounced the 7300GT , no?

4. HELLO MCFLY, I SAID DISPLAYS, NOT LCDS SPECIFICALLY. ****ing christ, some people can't read. SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE CRT, then the LCD, and the Plasma, EVERY company has strived to REDUCE GLARE, because it makes a better viewing experience, less eyestrain, etc.

5. No, actually. http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac...imacs-benched/

[Andhee]

[QUOTE=Trouble;3456348]I wasn't able to read lettering in web pages inspite the stores effort by turning off all the overhead track lighting.
I had to view the screen from a rather sharp angle.
QUOTE]

Thats a load of bull****. I've seen it first hand in a bright Apple store, it is perfectly fine to view, you only tend to see the reflection if you look at it.

I'm sure all the others in the store playing on the new iMac would you think youre a bit strange or have something up with your eyes if you had to view the screen from a "sharp angle," whereas everyone else would look at the screen normally - from the front if you didn't know.

[CheesePuff]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

Thats a load of bull****. I've seen it first hand in a bright Apple store, it is perfectly fine to view, you only tend to see the reflection if you look at it.

Correct, the 20" model suffers from the poor 160 degree viewing angle, while the 24" has a 178 degree viewing angle. I was not able to see any difference while standing higher or off to the side of the 24" model, everything was very sharp. But the 20" on the other hand...

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by Dagny 

4. HELLO MCFLY, I SAID DISPLAYS, NOT LCDS SPECIFICALLY. ****ing christ, some people can't read. SINCE THE INVENTION OF THE CRT, then the LCD, and the Plasma, EVERY company has strived to REDUCE GLARE, because it makes a better viewing experience, less eyestrain, etc.

5. No, actually. http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac...imacs-benched/

4. Are you serious?!? I hardly know where to begin responding to someone like you. I fully realized you SAID "displays" rather than "LCDs." However, you attempted to make an unfounded comparison between trends in 60-year old CRT display technology and modern-day LCD technology. Apple went with glass displays because they are brighter and provide greater saturation. They accomplish that end. As for reverting to a higher level of glare, well, that's certainly a drawback. But who's to say it created a net loss? I'll tell you who: the beholder. Feel free to disagree with me about whether your comparison was fair, but please do so like an adult. As of now, I have to presume you're a teenager who is unable to properly interact verbally. If that's the case, forgive me if I hold little respect for your ability to effectively analyze technology trends stretching back over forty years before you were born.

5. See results from previously cited test (mentioned in earlier posts). There can, of course, be conflicting benchmarks. Just think about all the Apple-commissioned benchmarks just after the millenium that showed the PowerMac to be the world's fastest pc. Meanwhile, the windows folks were able to come up with plenty of benchmarks that exhibited the opposite.

[Dagny]

5. YES. I specifically said DISPLAYS. Why? Because an LCD is a display. So is a CRT. And LIKE I SAID, every DISPLAY manufacturer has strived to REDUCE glare since they were invented. Suddenly there is a trend for glossy displays, for no other reason than people are STUPID, and actually buy into the marketing bullshit that tries to reword 'lack of glare coating' with 'glossy' (putting a positive spin on an otherwise negative feature).

Well sir, I AM NOT THAT STUPID, and I don't swallow it like a lot of dumb people do. There is NO reason why screens should be designed with MORE glare.

6. The previous post you're referring to tests the 2600XT, which is NOT the 2600 Pro, so it's totally useless.

[analogika]

Given that these things are so bloody obvious and that people are so incredibly STUPID, I have to wonder why CRT manufacturers never matted their screens?

See, sandblasting has been around for decades, and surely, it would have been a runaway success thirty years ago to have a completely matte, glare-free TV screen for almost no extra cost? In fact, the only completely matte CRTs I've ever seen were computer screens, back when they were one-bit monochrome exclusively.

Or could it *possibly*, just maybe, be that CRT and LCD displays are COMPLETELY different and follow COMPLETELY different rules - much the way digital devices and cabling are subject to *completely* different, often counter-"intuitive" interference and signal degradation than in the analogue domain?

Naah. That would be implying that Rob is arguing a subject he ISN'T the absolute authority on. If only he'd been in TV manufacturing in the 70's.

So many decades of STUPID glare on TV screens and computer monitors for nought.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by Dagny 

6. The previous post you're referring to tests the 2600XT, which is NOT the 2600 Pro, so it's totally useless.

The 2600 HD Pro is also benchmarked in all the graphs you chuffing idiot.

[dbranham]

Originally Posted by JKT 

The 2600 HD Pro is also benchmarked in all the graphs you chuffing idiot.

Thank you, JKT! Some people could really stand to be reminded that referring to others with derogatory pejoratives puts the accuser's own "arguments" in a position of heightened scrutiny.

[Night9Hawk]

Having used terminals and desktop computers for the past 30 years I can say that glare was always a problem with CRT screens. In the 70s I did a lot of programming in a terminal room that had banks of fluorescent lights which caused a lot of glare on the VT52 terminals we all had to use. We just got use to it since we didn't really have a choice. (There were always DecWriter III paper terminals available, but they were quite slow.)

It's nice we have choices today and personally I would prefer having a matte screen over a glossy. I was at a store on Saturday and used one of the new iMacs in an enviroment similar to that terminal room I use to sit in those many years ago and it was awful to see 6-7 white blotches on the screen, reflections of the overhead lights in the store. The previous weekend I had helped a customer set up one of the new computers in his home office and it was fine, mostly because he used two lamps for lighting and they were off to the side so there was no reflection or glare. It's a similar setup to the one I use at home so I wouldn't hesistate to buy one for use at home. But my office is a different matter. Given our lighting situation here-lots of overhead fluorescent lights-I'd probably be tempted to go for a Mini and a 3rd party LCD.

[bembol]

I picked up the 24" 2.4GHz tonight. I turned the Brightness all the way down and it's still bright and I'm loving the new Keyboard!!!

[hldan]

Originally Posted by bembol 

I picked up the 24" 2.4GHz tonight. I turned the Brightness all the way down and it's still bright and I'm loving the new Keyboard!!!

Congrats! Report back with a thorough review. Still waiting for my 2.8, my shipping is Aug 27th.

[shifuimam]

Oh goody...another credit discussion...

Originally Posted by AC Rempt 

Y'all are assuming that people get out of debt. I'm a good American, so that's never the case, and all my debt kinda runs together. I've bought machines on credit, but the debt just blends into the giant pool of student loans, mortgages and various other sins. When I get rid of a computer, I have no idea if I'm still paying on it or not most of the time. I just keep paying.

Wouldn't it be nice to pay it all off and not have to "keep paying"?

If you have the money, go cash, but if not, God Bless America!

No, if you have the money, go cash. If not and you don't need it, wait and save up the money.

Originally Posted by Night9Hawk 

I'm not sure that I like the re-arrangement of the function keys on the keyboard, since I tend to be a bit of a hobgoblin when it comes to change.

Oh trust me - I was very surprised that Apple changed the Expose and Dashboard F-keys on the new keyboard. I'm not seeing any justifiable reason to do that, and it's going to cause some usability issues for people like me who subconsciously go for the F9-F11 keys to use Expose. Kind of goes against the "it just works" philosophy.

I think Apple should include a FW-800 to FW-400 adaptor since the vast majority of people still use FW-400 devices and without the adaptor the system is pretty much a single firewire port system.

Good point. Not to mention that there are only three powered USB 2.0 ports (unless the keyboard ports have magical powers, there's no way those are powerful enough to run devices that need the full power output of a powered USB port). I have eleven USB ports total on my desktop machine, and at least six of them are in use all the time. It's unlikely the motherboard is incapable of having more ports on it...

Originally Posted by Mojo 

The only acceptable debt in my opinion are student loans...

Well, and a mortgage. It's nearly impossible to save up enough to pay cash on your first home - getting a mortgage is generally more financially wise than renting for ten years so you can save to pay cash for a house.

I still miss the G4 iMac. :'(

[molarszbt18]

Ehh not a fan of the keyboard!

The screen, ehh hate glossy and the screen is glass....WILL SHATTER ouch...

I saw some posts on buying a computer on credit. I do it only if its like 90 days no finance charges or whatever and I pay it off before that time. Actually i did the same thing with my plasma I bought

[analogika]

Originally Posted by molarszbt18 

The screen, ehh hate glossy and the screen is glass....WILL SHATTER ouch...

Most people don't throw heavy objects at their computers.

FWIW, ALL LCD screens contain at least one thin layer of glass, and will shatter if you strike them hard.

What exactly do you intend to do with the iMac that makes the new screen too sensitive?

[molarszbt18]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Most people don't throw heavy objects at their computers.

FWIW, ALL LCD screens contain at least one thin layer of glass, and will shatter if you strike them hard.

What exactly do you intend to do with the iMac that makes the new screen too sensitive?

glass is glass. Glass will crack or shatter if left in front of a window with the sun beating on it. The original LCD iMac was not built like this. They should have used plexiglass imo

[Natz]

Originally Posted by molarszbt18 

glass is glass. Glass will crack or shatter if left in front of a window with the sun beating on it. The original LCD iMac was not built like this. They should have used plexiglass imo

If that's true for every type of glass it's a good job we don't make windows out of glass isn't it.....

[analogika]

Originally Posted by molarszbt18 

glass is glass. Glass will crack or shatter if left in front of a window with the sun beating on it. The original LCD iMac was not built like this. They should have used plexiglass imo

Which universe do you live in regularly?

This one follows the laws of thermodynamics, at least most of the time.