[besson3c]

Where does he sign for next season?

It seems ironic to me that when you get to be such an elite player your options for signing at your market value become very limited. New York and Boston are already set at first base. Teams like the Cubs and Mets may not see themselves as ready to justify such a massive contract for such a massive time period (I think we're talking between 7 to 9 years?), it is not clear whether the Cardinals could afford this new contract...

What do you see happening with him?

[Chongo]

Well, he's 31, far from being washed up. That eliminates the D'backs. After winning the WS in 2001, we only sign washed up players.

[Dork.]

Albert Pujols is unquestionably the best player in baseball right now. 400 Home Runs after only 10 years. But he is tough to strike out. He hits lots of doubles too. And he still fields his position exceptionally well. And nobody's ever connected him to steroids in any way, shape, or form.

Pujols' biggest problem is A-Rod. As in, the two insane contracts that A-Rod signed. Both teams that signed him have to be regretting giving out so much money. A-Rod simply wasn't worth it. But Pujols is a better player than A-Rod is now, maybe even a better player than A-Rod was when he hit 10 years in the league. You can argue that Pujols deserves a better contract than A-Rod got. But A-Rod's contracts were clearly mistakes in retrospect.

Rumor has it that LaRussa thinks the players' union is whispering in Pujols' ear, saying that he should hold out to get that contract that beats A-Rod's, so that he can raise the bar for the next phenom. A-Rod's latest deal with the Yankees is 10-year, $275 million. That's a huge chunk of change. Most teams can't afford that, and the ones that can all have long-term commitments to 1st basemen.

There are only 30 spots for starting first basemen in MLB, and many of those teams can't afford elite-caliber players. A player of Pujols' caliber should be sought after by everyone, but (if the rumors can be believed) the union is essentially pricing Pujols out of most of those jobs. All because A-Rod ruined it for everyone. Stupid A-Rod!

[besson3c]

It's an interesting situation because whomever is considered the best has the opportunity to set the bar at a certain level, a bar where future contracts are modeled after. Apparently using other contracts as a means to structure new contracts is very common among GMs and agents these days.

I would argue that Pujols is better than A-Rod ever was, but like Dork. pointed out, he may have a hard time getting a contract like A-Rod's. However, his agent and Pujols himself would probably be in a good position to ask for a similar contract until the point in which they simply can't (if that point exists), because of the A-Rod precedent.

If Pujols doesn't get A-Rod money, it may also mean that the A-Rod contract is the upper ceiling for quite some time to come, because why should a player ask for more money than what Pujuls would be earning?

Here is a Rod:

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Albert Pujols is unquestionably the best player in baseball right now. 400 Home Runs after only 10 years. But he is tough to strike out. He hits lots of doubles too. And he still fields his position exceptionally well. And nobody's ever connected him to steroids in any way, shape, or form.

He also has great OBP numbers. However, the other thing about having Pujols on your team is that he needs protection behind him. Otherwise, he'll still get on base, but he'll do far less damage if he is only walking and not slugging.

So, to sign Pujols you also need some sort of commitment to a reliable .850+ OPS sort of player too.

[Dork.]

You're just interested because his name is pronounced "Poo-Holes". Heh.

[besson3c]

I hadn't thought about that, but you're right! Hehheh... ganja holes.

[rickey939]

Royals. Simply for family reasons.

[besson3c]

No way can I see that happening unless he gives the team a very crazy discount, and doesn't mind playing on a team that generally sucks.

However, the Royals have the best farm system in all of baseball, so maybe their suckyness won't last forever. However, they may also end up like the Rays and have difficulty resigning their top talent once they hit free agency.

[Dork.]

I watched a bit of the game last night, then at the end of the third inning I said "I think this isn't going to be all that exciting", and turned it off. Boy, was I ever wrong: Albert put on a show on how to be the Greatest Of All Time last night.

I think Jose is awesome, but Albert is clearly the premier free agent this year. And we're really no closer to knowing where he'll play next year then we were when besson3c started this thread. Do you think the Cards will be able to afford to keep him? Can they afford to let him walk?

Mets first baseman Ike Davis has said that if he would love it if the Mets signed Pujols, and he would move to the bullpen in a heartbeat to make room for him. (He was only half-joking: his dad was a reliever for the Yankees, Ike would probably do well there). I doubt that the Mets would go for Pujols (and if they do, they definitely won't re-sign Reyes, also), so it's really just wishful thinking.

But that's what makes free-agency fun: until he signs somewhere, every fan can dream of their team signing him. It's like the lotto or something....

[chris v]

I would like to see what his worth as a free agent was both right before, and right after last night's game. I'm thinking those runs & RBIs, coming in a World Series, drove his stock up 10 or 20 million in one fell swoop.

Not feelin' too good about the Rangers, at this point. They came into the series with a much-touted pitching staff, and their relievers really shone in the ALCS, but they're getting beaten up by the Cards, especially Ogando, who was un-hittable, and is now just a punching bag.

[turtle777]

I don't know much about Baseball, but I think this is a pretty interesting situation and I'll be following what's happening.

In my limited understanding of Baseball, I would think that ONE very good player can have much more influence on the success of a team than in any other team sport. Even if the team has only duds, but one superstar, he could hit multiple home runs and still make the team successful. Would that be a fair assessment ?
If that's the case, I can see how a single player is much more "worth" than a single NFL or basketball player.

-t

[exca1ibur]

Just the opposite in baseball, as if everyone else in the lineup sucks, you can just pitch around him. If no one gets on base his home runs don't mean much of anything. Pitchers are a little more of an exception as your one pitcher can shut down an entire team. Making that one player a little more an impact, however they are in a rotation so at most you see him once every 5-6 games, and he most certainly won't pitch an entire game each time. Moral of the story. Baseball is all about the team if you want to win games and be successful, as you need a unit to do much of anything. Whatever team he goes to he will need to have some type of supporting staff to win. A team of average players are more likely to win more games than a one superstar player and a mediocre supporting cast.

[besson3c]

Yeah, you need far more than one superstar. Ask the Jays when they had Roger Clemens, Roy Halladay, and now Jose Bautista. Ask the Mariners with Felix Hernandez and (before this year) Ichiro Suzuki and Cliff Lee, etc.

[besson3c]

Dork., Pujols may be the best hitter of all time. There is some question about what is age actually is, and how many years to give them though. These is a danger of teams offering him years past his prime and having to eat those years of Pujols in his decline. Nobody knows when his decline will start and what it will be like.

I think he'll get a very big contract, but it may not break records.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

In my limited understanding of Baseball, I would think that ONE very good player can have much more influence on the success of a team than in any other team sport. Even if the team has only duds, but one superstar, he could hit multiple home runs and still make the team successful. Would that be a fair assessment ?
If that's the case, I can see how a single player is much more "worth" than a single NFL or basketball player.

-t

I would also say you're completely wrong. Having a single superstar player in basketball or football is far more valuable than having one in baseball. (In the case of football, especially so if it's a quarterback.)

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Also, the Jays are getting Pujols.

Srsly.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Also, the Jays are getting Pujols.

Srsly.

I highly doubt that. Why would Pujols want to play on a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs since 93? The only way AA would get Pujols is via trade, and you can't sign and immediately trade a player.

[besson3c]

I think either Pujols resigns with the Cardinals or the Brewers.

If it is true that he'll want to play out his remaining years on a contending team, and that this team will also have to be a big market team that can afford him, that leaves few options...

- Mets: don't seem to be on the brink of contention
- Cubs: same
- Jays: getting close, but Pujols may want to see that success play out before signing on
- Yankees: would have to move Teixera to DH or trade him, don't know how movable that contract is
- Red Sox: same with Youklis
- Phillies: same with Howard
- Tigers: same with Cabrera (who is also much younger, he might be the better player to hang on to right now)
- Rangers: maybe? Don't know what their financial situation is
- Giants: same
- Brewers: depends on what happens to Prince Fielder
- Rays: probably can't afford him

[turtle777]

Ok, I see.

So if that's the case, Pujols should kiss his big free agent paycheck goodbye.

-t

[ort888]

Being from St. Louis (but not being a big baseball fan) I'm a little biased here...

But, I think there is a certain special something about having a legendary career and having it with one team. Especially in this day and age. Albert is going to go down in history as one of the all time greats, and if he leaves St. Louis for another team it's going to diminish that legend, if only a tiny bit. All of the greats are generally associated with certain teams.

Then again, there is also a lot to be said about millions and millions of dollars. And it's hard to fault someone for trying to maximize their earnings in the brief window in which they are able to do so. It's a lot of money on the table here.

[besson3c]

It may also depend on his relationship with Tona LaRussa, who doesn't always jive with everybody.

[ort888]

LaRussa and Pujols are BFFs. It's pretty well known. I don't think Pujpls would come back without LaRussa.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

LaRussa and Pujols are BFFs. It's pretty well known. I don't think Pujpls would come back without LaRussa.

So, if Pujols signs a 5+ year contract, will TLR stick around for those 5 years?

[ort888]

I don't know. I think Pujols is looking for a monster 10 year deal and I don't think LaRussa will be sticking around that long.

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by rickey939 

Royals. Simply for family reasons.

Agreed.

[turtle777]

Classic Rickey.

-t

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think either Pujols resigns with the Cardinals or the Brewers.

If it is true that he'll want to play out his remaining years on a contending team, and that this team will also have to be a big market team that can afford him, that leaves few options...

- Mets: don't seem to be on the brink of contention
- Cubs: same
- Jays: getting close, but Pujols may want to see that success play out before signing on
- Yankees: would have to move Teixera to DH or trade him, don't know how movable that contract is
- Red Sox: same with Youklis
- Phillies: same with Howard
- Tigers: same with Cabrera (who is also much younger, he might be the better player to hang on to right now)
- Rangers: maybe? Don't know what their financial situation is
- Giants: same
- Brewers: depends on what happens to Prince Fielder
- Rays: probably can't afford him

I'm pretty sure you can take the Mets off of the list of teams "that can afford him."

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I don't know. I think Pujols is looking for a monster 10 year deal and I don't think LaRussa will be sticking around that long.

This is where things get interesting. Baseball Reference has him listed as 31 years old, but some wonder whether he is actually a little older than that. It is very rare for a player to be putting up elite numbers at 40+ years old or even 35+ years old. His current year was good, but not great. It might be hard to get a 10 year contract after this year when age may have been an issue (it is not at all uncommon for a player's decline to start in their 30s).

I think he probably has a good 5 years left in him, at least. I don't know if I'd sign him for 10 years. For teams that see this as a worthwhile gamble they are probably going to have to have a Red Sox or Yankees logo to feel comfortable potentially walking away from a contract of this magnitude, financially speaking.

[ort888]

He probably is over 31.

It's hard for me to say, but I do know the entire city of St. Louis would have to be placed on suicide watch if he signs somewhere else.

This town loves them some baseball and loves them some Poo Holes. The amount of support this city gives the Cardinals is crazy. It seems like EVERYONE is a big Cards fan.

[besson3c]

Which is why I think he'll resign with the Cardinals (the contention status of a team like the Brewers is also a little iffy, the Cardinals always seem like contenders).

Maybe 5 years + team options for additional years? Maybe 3 option years?

[OAW]

^^^^

Exactly. Any team would be crazy to sign a 10+ year deal with Pujols for what his market value is right now ... simply because given his age you have no way of knowing if you will get a full ROI on that contract. So a reasonable compromise would be to pay the man top dollar for 5 years with options to extend the contract thereafter. Pujols gets the money he deserves. The Cards retain their star player. And the STL population doesn't have a collective heart attack because he went to play elsewhere.

OAW

[SpaceMonkey]

Contracts aren't negotiated in a fantasyland where everyone has perfect information and is perfectly rational. Some teams are, in fact, crazy.

[OAW]

^^^^

This is true. But if the Cardinals front office was inclined to be crazy they would have already signed Pujols by now.

OAW

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by rickey939 

Royals. Simply for family reasons.

Nah. Albert would definitely want to play-out his career in the majors.

I agree Albert will stay with the Cardinals. It's a winning program, full of history, and without all the sort of big-market pressure and BS one gets in places like NY, LA or Boston.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Nah. Albert would definitely want to play-out his career in the majors.

I agree Albert will stay with the Cardinals. It's a winning program, full of history, and without all the sort of big-market pressure and BS one gets in places like NY, LA or Boston.

It must be really hard for a player/agent to assess a team like Kansas City that has been bad for quite a while when this assessment has to involve who is coming up through the system. If KS had the scouting that the Rays have it might be a very exciting time to join KS as they are on the verge of budding to become the sort of team that the Rays have been. Any one of these teams can surprise us though with their young talent blossoming if the timing is right, I'm hesitant to blow off any of these sort of teams who aren't the Orioles (the Orioles seem to have absolutely retarded management constantly making retarded decisions involving giving up draft picks for yesterday's elite/semi-elite free agents)

The Rays would be an absolutely unstoppable force if they had 100 million/year to work with.

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Nah. Albert would definitely want to play-out his career in the majors.

I never said Kansas City....I was referring to Omaha.

[Dork.]

Well, that's that. Albert has another ring to bring with him to the Cubs....

[Thorzdad]

So, how does LaRussa's retirement change your opinion of what Albert decides?

With LaRussa's departure, St.Louis will be under even more pressure to keep Pujols, in order to maintain as much stability and continuity as possible through the coaching change. He's also probably a huge attraction for any potential coach to come to St.Louis.

Albert, on the other hand, is losing the only coach he's had in the bigs. Good opportunity to make a clean break? Good opportunity to work a major deal with the Cards?

[ort888]

Albert is now officially a free agent and is accepting offers from other teams. LaRussa is gone.

I don't follow baseball, so I'm not paying to much attention to the subtle nuances of all of this... but I think the writing is on the wall.

I do think there is a decent chance he'll come back to the Cards, but it's probably a 25% chance or less.

[Dork.]

Rumor has it that the Marlins have made offers to both Albert and Jose. Wow.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Jose who?

[Ghoser777]

Jose Reyes.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Jose who?

Reyes

[OAW]

It appears that it is the end of an era. Perhaps the beginning of a new one?

Sources -- Albert Pujols and C.J. Wilson have agreed with the Angels - ESPN Los Angeles

STL Cardinals fans are collectively losing their minds right about now.

OAW

[Dork.]

Cardinals fans still have two World Series titles to console themselves with. All Mets fans have is the pile of flaming poop that Bernie Madoff left on our doorsteps. And Endy's catch.

[ort888]

Traitor.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by OAW 

It appears that it is the end of an era. Perhaps the beginning of a new one?

Sources -- Albert Pujols and C.J. Wilson have agreed with the Angels - ESPN Los Angeles

STL Cardinals fans are collectively losing their minds right about now.

OAW

A lot of the blogs seem okay with it, realizing the crippling effect over the long term. They still have a decent team even without him.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

400 Home Runs after only 10 years.

How many after he stopped taking steroids?

[ort888]

I'm not a big baseball fan, but I think on paper this is good for the Cards... tying up so much money on a player who may not be the age he says he is... and is most likely on the decline...

But emotionally it sucks. Pujols is going to go down in history as one of the all-time greats and it's a special thing to have a player like that on your team for his entire career.