[Isaac]

well, not really... but the school is holding a mock election, and I've decided to run against Bush and Kerry, mostly just to raise some issues, and sorta poll to see who agrees with my platform... I've distributed a total of 80 fliers so far, it's my very straight forward 17 bullet point platform, and that that's it... several people have told me that I would be assassinated within minutes of being elected if I ever ran for real....I don't think the government can dissolve itself, so I ommited that...

--------------

Vote for Isaac Karjala
As a write in candidate for President in the Mock 2004 elections

Isaac Karjala's election platform: Peace and Freedom in the US and the World!



� Will be responsible for the first four year period in US history without an instance of military aggression. Will be the first US president EVER, not to engage in military aggression
� Repeal all laws regarding the prohibition on drugs, prostitution, public nudity and other non-violent crimes. Pardoning of all already serving sentences.
� End politically motivated prosecutions and sentences, and pardon those already convicted.
� Repeal the Selective Service Act of 1980. This is the act requiring that all males between the ages of 18 and 26, not already in the ward of the state (prison or mental hospital) with US citizenship to register there place of residence with the federal government at all times at threat of penalty's of $500,000 and 5 years in prison.
� Repeal the USA PATRIOT ACT, this bill serves to invalidate many parts of the US Constitutions Bill of Rights. Such as warrants not signed by a judicial officer, and indefinite detainment without charges or public knowledge of arrest or an attorney present on your behalf.
� Dramatically restructure SS (Secret Service) and FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) as to end these services repetitive tendencies to silence and intimidate dissidence.
� Eliminate CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) and NSA (National Security Agency), as there two institutions have minimal non-militant use and primary function in actual use has proven to be the suppression of foreign (CIA) and domestic (NSA) dissidence.
� Crack down on police brutality. Police brutality is the number one cause of large scale rioting (French 1968 revolution, Hungarian 1956 revolution, continuing Algerian 2001 revolution, late 1960s US race riots, 1992 US King riots)
� Will socialize Iraqi's oil reserves in the benefit of the Iraqi people. This will help the Iraqi people get to there feet, rather then just line the pockets (and eventually coffins) of some rich American "elite"
� Will utilize libertarian policies in Iraq.
� Will reduce troop presence in Iraq to 20,000 with no replenishing of forces lost to attrition or combat. Forcing troops, commanders and politicians to work with and for the Iraqis, not against.
� Will utilize libertarian polices in Afghanistan
� Will end support of Israel. Israel has engaged in racist and xenophobic policies towards it's colored occupants and neighbors
� Will end support of China. China continues to dump nuclear waste in an extremely hap-hazard way in it's heavily militarized occupation of Tibet.
� Will end US policy of backing political reactionaries.
� Eliminate the Federal Income Tax; if government's programs can't garner enough public support to pay for themselves through donations, then those programs are obviously not all that important, wanted or necessary.
� Will end US economic policy, and go to purely laze fare economics, though allowing and encouraging more socialist economics', based on free association, to structure themselves in the vacuum.


Vote Isaac Karjala for President!

[djohnson]

ANARCHY!!! Total Anarchy.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by djohnson:
ANARCHY!!! Total Anarchy.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!"

[Splinter]

Originally posted by Isaac:
several people have told me that I would be assassinated within minutes of being elected if I ever ran for real

Which reminds me, Will those who have expressed an intrest in said activities please gather in the lounge at 0900 hours tomorrow morning for our first official K.I.K. meeting (Kill Isaac Karjala)

[Planet_EN]

Hey .... I think almost all the candidates (except Issac) are hypocrates ... screw them all .......

[CD Hanks]

You forgot an option of "None".

I agree with about a tenth of what you propose.

[icruise]

This has got to be one of the worst platforms I've ever seen.

[dgs212]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
You forgot an option of "None".

You also forgot the option of "None of the above: Refuses to Abdicate Individual Freedoms to Oppressive Hierarchical Structures"

[itai195]

Originally posted by Icruise:
This has got to be one of the worst platforms I've ever seen.

Ditto

And come on, 'laze fare' economics? You couldn't at least look up the spelling?

[Isaac]

I couldn't get the spelling close enough for Word to correct me...

[Isaac]

Originally posted by djohnson:
ANARCHY!!! Total Anarchy.

no, not quite... as I said, I don't think that the state can dissolve it's self.

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
You forgot an option of "None".

I agree with about a tenth of what you propose.

great, tell me which .1th

Originally posted by Icruise:
This has got to be one of the worst platforms I've ever seen.

really?.. worse then Kerrys?... I propose to end the perpetual state of war, and it's accompaning fear mongering hateful propiganda... does Kerry want this?.. no, he wants to help his corperate sponsers, just like Bush.

[Xeo]

You can't just end the military and our information gathering departments. I don't agree with going to war but there are enough hostile nations out there that wouldn't mind trampling all over our new passive government.

You can't just get rid of non-violent crimes. I'm sorry but I like the laws in place keeping the neighbor from driving my car away.

You can't just get rid of income tax. There was a time when income tax didn't exist. The rich became richer because they just kept making money. Land owners, like farmers, were getting taxed like crazy because of property tax. I feel fine about paying "rent" to whichever country I'm living in. They provide a LOT of resources to the citizens and trying to get donations from people who don't understand half of it would be stupid.

Basically, you would make a horrible president.

[MindFad]

Pffft, I wonder how many foreigners will partake in this poll.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Isaac:
� Will end support of China. China continues to dump nuclear waste in an extremely hap-hazard way in it's heavily militarized occupation of Tibet.

You're kidding, right? The Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese central banks own more than half of the 2003 US budget deficit - you better pray that they don't stop supporting you.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by Xeo:
You can't just end the military and our information gathering departments. I don't agree with going to war but there are enough hostile nations out there that wouldn't mind trampling all over our new passive government.

You can't just get rid of non-violent crimes. I'm sorry but I like the laws in place keeping the neighbor from driving my car away.

... Land owners, like farmers, were getting taxed like crazy because of property tax... They provide a LOT of resources to the citizens and trying to get donations from people who don't understand half of it would be stupid....

I don't propose to end the military, but I do propose to end military agression, the US, with the possible exceptions of the Revolution and WWII, has never fought a defensive war, I propose to end that... farmers were mostly screwed over by the banks, not property taxes... which could be fixed with land reforms... and no, public schools and roads does not justitfy forced endorcement of murder (war) and other forms of one person imposing there will others (taxation for one)... and people I think are alittle brighter then you think... theft being a violent crime or not, is somewhat of a grey area, I probably should of worded myself better...

Originally posted by effgee:
You're kidding, right? The Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese central banks own more than half of the 2003 US budget deficit - you better pray that they don't stop supporting you.

doesn't justify support of Chinesse policy.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Isaac:
doesn't justify support of Chinesse policy.

Interesting ... can you show me where exactly I said that?

[Isaac]

orginally posted by effgee:
You're kidding, right?... you better pray that they don't stop supporting you.

this explicitly implys that you disagree with:

orginally posted by me:
� Will end support of China....

and you're stated reason for disagreeing is:

orginally quoted by you:
... The Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese central banks own more than half of the 2003 US budget deficit...

but this doesn't justify:

orginally posted by me:
... China continues to dump nuclear waste in an extremely hap-hazard way in it's heavily militarized occupation of Tibet.

[effgee]

You're right - I do disagree with you initial assumption/course of action/whatever. But you draw the wrong conclusion as to why I disagree - certainly not because I believe the Chinese govt. deserves anyone's support.

What I am saying is that even if you were president (I'm liking that mental image), you couldn't "stop support for China" because it would be identical to the factory worker who gets fired from his job and then walks straight into his bank and tells them to go fsck themselves. Get the picture?

No US president, hypothetical or real (that includes you), can "stop support for China" because your economy would go down the shitter faster than you can say "Peking Duck".

And that's not even taking into consideration that, shortly after you make said announcement, your "fellow citizens" (most of whom would be unemployed by that time and unable to feed their families) would knock at your office door in the WH to take you out for an afternoon of electro-shocks ... that is if you haven't already been slain by a horde of disgruntled WH worker bees.

You know, it's one thing to have well-inteded utopian aspirations - but it's an entirely different thing to write about your intent to change realities that simply can not be changed unilaterally. Because that makes you look either, uhm ... "uninformed" or "overconfident".

[Isaac]

oh... I sincearly doubt that I would even make it to the inaguaration without someone taking it upon themselfs to shoot me...

if you take away police and military intervention into strikes and other work stoppages, you give the worker alot more leverage over employers... and you also decrease the need for unions inorder to be able excerise such leverage... so the economy might not plument quite as fast as you think... repaying loans doesn't constitute support or endorsement anyways, though aid packages do.

and I wouldn't be changing anything unilateraly... I assume that if enough people vote for me to win an election, that there are alot of people on my side....

[CreepingDeth]

More socialist libertarianism? WTF?!

I got yer slogan: Peace, Love, Anarchy, and confusion

[effgee]

Originally posted by Isaac:
... and I wouldn't be changing anything unilateraly... I assume that if enough people vote for me to win an election, that there are alot of people on my side....

doesn't quite work that way. I got lots of work to do, so I gotta run for now ... promise me you'll keep a copy of your "presidential proposal", read it over in 10-15 years and let me know what you think then ...

[Isaac]

I can try, but probably will fail... I don't lead that orderly or tidy of a life...

[Isaac]

voter fraud.

my school did the mock election today, and I'm told by one of the people counting votes that they discarded all my votes... Mr Kelly (the principal) told me that if I got 15% of the vote I would be annonceced with the other candidates, but obviosly I can't get 15% of the vote when they discard any vote for me...

[Scientist]

You sound a heck of a lot better than all the other choices up there. Go for it in 2008!

[Isaac]

it won't be untill 2019 that I will be 35 years old...

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Isaac:
� Repeal all laws regarding the prohibition on drugs, prostitution, public nudity and other non-violent crimes. Pardoning of all already serving sentences.

Would this include white-collar crimes such as fraud?

� End politically motivated prosecutions and sentences, and pardon those already convicted.

How would you prove political motivation?

� Will socialize Iraqi's oil reserves in the benefit of the Iraqi people. This will help the Iraqi people get to there feet, rather then just line the pockets (and eventually coffins) of some rich American "elite"
� Will utilize libertarian policies in Iraq.

This is a contradiction. Socializing Iraq's oil reserves is very much not a libertarian thing to do.

� Will end US economic policy, and go to purely laze fare economics, though allowing and encouraging more socialist economics', based on free association, to structure themselves in the vacuum.

Do you understand laissez-faire economics?

Sorry; you don't get my vote. I agree with about half of yourt platform, while disagreeing with the other half quite vehemently.

[Isaac]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Would this include white-collar crimes such as fraud?

no, fraud is intended to cause others harm.

How would you prove political motivation?

as president I have the power of pardoning, I also can to some extent select prosecutors and judges... but there is no way of actualy proving it's politicaly motivated...

This is a contradiction. Socializing Iraq's oil reserves is very much not a libertarian thing to do.

socialism and libertarianism aren't opposed, sorry.... socialism can't be forced in a libertarian society, but they have functioned together... libertainism frees the individual from external authority and socialism dissolves property "rights"

Do you understand laissez-faire economics?

yes I do. remove all government influence on economics
but that still allows I my individual self to do whatever I want economiclly, including promoting socialist social and economic distribution.

[cpt kangarooski]

Isaac--

no, fraud is intended to cause others harm.

But you said 'non-violent crimes' and fraud is not violent.

as president I have the power of pardoning,

Only for federal crimes. The President cannot pardon those convicted of state crimes; Governors do that.

I also can to some extent select prosecutors and judges...

Again, only at the federal level. And as for Art. III judges, you need vacancies before you can appoint, and you then you need Senate confirmation. But the President does not have the power to assign specific Art. III judges to specific cases, nor can he remove them from office.

Eliminate CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) and NSA (National Security Agency), as there two institutions have minimal non-militant use and primary function in actual use has proven to be the suppression of foreign (CIA) and domestic (NSA) dissidence.

Out of curiosity, what has the NSA done that you're objecting to? Yes, they are known to engage in (sometimes indirectly) unlawful domestic intelligence gathering, but that's not suppressing anything.

Anyway, very very little of your platform appeals to me. Most of it is sufficiently dangerous that I wouldn't vote for you.

[PacHead]

Hey Isaac, no offense, but you would be the worst president in the history of the USA.

It would be 9-11 times 2731.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Isaac:
no, fraud is intended to cause others harm.

Define "harm". Either way, it's not violent. Selling drugs is intended to cause others harm, yet you would legalize it; is this not a contradiction?

as president I have the power of pardoning, I also can to some extent select prosecutors and judges... but there is no way of actualy proving it's politicaly motivated...

So, then, you won't even try to prove political motivation? In that case you're basically handing out arbitrary pardons, which isn't the soundest of policies.

socialism and libertarianism aren't opposed, sorry.... socialism can't be forced in a libertarian society...

Socialism must be forced in order to work properly, because it only works properly when everyone is a socialist. Dissent breaks the system, and the only way to get rid of dissent is through force. You cannot use force in a system which disallows force, and so we're stuck with yet another logical contradiction. Your own idea of socializing Iraq's oil supplies implies force, both to bring it into a nationalized system and to keep foreign investors out.

but they have functioned together... libertainism frees the individual from external authority and socialism dissolves property "rights"

Another logical contradiction, as libertarianism depends quite heavily on property rights in order to get anything done. So we have another incompatibility; between socialism and libertarianism, each depends on things which the other disallows.