[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika

Have you considered a position as news consultant?

Can't say I have. What about you?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by analogika

Problem is, "They dunnit too" doesn't go very far in justifying your own moral superiority.

Good point however, using the incidents of a few allegedly bad apples and making this in any way to appear as the US military norm wreaks of the same ignorance you'd likely indict one claiming Islam breeds terrorism. That's the difference. The US military should be held to a higher standard and we are time and again. The mere fact that this story is being reported as nefarious throughout the US is proof enough.

Hell, our own CIC fails to stand up for the military he sent into harm's way. For this, we are definitely different. I see marches over a vehicle accident killing civilians, I'd like to see a few marches against insurgency over the 21 students pulled from a bus today and executed. How about the 30 killed a few days ago by insurgents, or the 50 the week before by insurgents. It just goes on and on. While we indict US forces for possible collateral damage and/or alleged targeted civilian killings, we have hundreds of targeted dead a week. Do you see any marches? Protests? People throwing rocks?

On the contrary, it puts you at the same level.

Not even close brother. Never will be. Someone's gotta stand up for the US and the US armed forces.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by analogika

True - terrorism creating an American military movement in *Iraq*, of all places, is indeed quite the irony.

If I attempted to eradicate a bee's nest with a baseball bat, I'd expect to see bees flying around that weren't before. Why? Because I've disrupted their otherwise quiet, but productive habitat. I could address the bee's nest next year, the year after that, or leave it for my kids to address in 10 to 20 years, but I'd rather we did the difficult work today.

But then, we've been saying that since long before anybody even mentioned it as a possible justification for the invasion (ah, the days when it was just "WMD"...)

There were several justifications for the invasion and most of them have been addressed including the WMDs which don't exist now and never can in the future. At least not in Iraq. If someone else does have them, they're really not interested in attempting to use them for fear of exposure. Just like OBL; I don't care if he's dead. The fact that he's been rendered a life in mountain caves or possibly gone already is good enough for me.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Good point however, using the incidents of a few allegedly bad apples and making this in any way to appear as the US military norm wreaks of the same ignorance you'd likely indict one claiming Islam breeds terrorism. That's the difference. The US military should be held to a higher standard and we are time and again. The mere fact that this story is being reported as nefarious throughout the US is proof enough.

True.

[Sky Captain]

There were a few bad apples in Vietnam also. Ugh.


Anyone remember how Saddam ruled?
He kept order.
And he slaughtered tens of thousands.

Something will be done about the bad apples when it's all said and done.

What did/does the UN/EU do to those under Saddam?

And the other "bad apples" setting off bombs that kill civillians?


Nothing.

[Moderator]

Bottom line...we are creating more terrorists than we are killing or capturing. I don't even blame the soldiers..they were put in a God awful situation by a bunch of yahoos who couldn't be bothered fighting when it was their turn but were more than happy to toss other people's kids and parents into this trainwreck.

Just remember....when Dick Cheney leaves office he's going to return to the head a company that will have quadrupled its stock price since Sept 11th. In reality he's never left. So there will be winners.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Moderator

Bottom line...we are creating more terrorists than we are killing or capturing.

Prove it.

[Sky Captain]

Pegasus, Simply Dynamics and Blackwater Solutions Group are eradicating terrorists by the score everyday.

It's a turkey shoot.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Moderator

Bottom line...we are creating more terrorists than we are killing or capturing. I don't even blame the soldiers..they were put in a God awful situation by a bunch of yahoos who couldn't be bothered fighting when it was their turn but were more than happy to toss other people's kids and parents into this trainwreck.

It is a volunteer military. No one throws other people's kids and parents into trainwrecks. They joined a military voluntarily. The sooner you learn this small fact, the better.

Secondly, I've never understood this; "we're creating more terrorists" notion when in fact terrorists created more Americans. As long as we don't have to quantify our opinions we can say whatever we want right? Like the below;

Just remember....when Dick Cheney leaves office he's going to return to the head a company that will have quadrupled its stock price since Sept 11th. In reality he's never left.

He never left??? He'll be returning? Shall I have a broker contact you for stock options?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Pegasus, Simply Dynamics and Blackwater Solutions Group are eradicating terrorists by the score everyday.

It's a turkey shoot.

Blackwater - nice guys! The old Executive Outcomes boys that got kicked out of South Africa. Apartheid-era mercenaries who cut their teeth committing racial genocide, terrorism and the odd coup d'etat here and there. I don't think anyone should be proud to have Blackwater on their team.

[Sky Captain]

And the UN has done what about Angola and Congo?




Nothing.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

And the UN has done what about Angola and Congo?




Nothing.

What would you like the UN to do? Send in the Army that it doesn't have. Impose sanctions? That would hurt. Imagine the dent in Angola's budget when it can't sell pencils to the Geneva office of the UN - because that's the only budget the UN has control over.

This argument you bring is very facile. It's based on a misunderstanding that more and more people in the US have - that the UN is a like a country. The UN is a forum - that's all. It's a place where countries go to talk. It's like Alcoholics Anonymous for countries. When you have a problem, you go there to talk. If countries don't want to talk or want only to talk and not DO anything, that is the fault of the countries themselves, not the forum. Blaming the UN for the Angolan War is like blaming AA for alcoholism.

[Sky Captain]

Present day Somolia.
About to get owned by Al Quida.

Some cultures only understand rule brute force.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Present day Somolia.
About to get owned by Al Quida.

Some cultures only understand rule brute force.

Somalia hasn't had a government since 1991. No one collecting taxes, no one repairing, let alone building infrastructure. 15% of children go to school. Militias that are high on drugs (khat) are the only people that enforce any kind of order and it's not the kind you want. What do you do when a 10 year old with an AK-47 comes to take all of your worldly possessions? The only option is to get your own gun.

How long do you think your city would function for without a Police Force, sanitation services, someone running power stations etc.? I tell you, my city (Paris) would fall apart within 24 hours and I am convinced that something at least as awful as Mogadishu would replace the order we have now. It's not a cultural problem. It's a human problem. Africans don't understand force any more than you do. It's their circumstances that cause the disordrer. If Al Qaeda can bring order to Somalia then that is a VERY sad indictment on the rest of the world. Because it would prove that fixing Somalia wasn't all that hard. If the Islamists can do it with the limited resources they have, we (and I mean the African Union, the United Nations and all of the members of those groups individually) should have been able to achieve it long ago.

[Sky Captain]

Fixing Somolia required a lot of killing.
Al Quida understands this.


Lack of cooperation of the citizenry would cause a total collapse.
Too much expected from a centralized government.


And warlording is a culture.
I've got to witness it up close. And be able to do nothing. UN rules of engagement and all.