Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Planned Balto. Co. school calendar denies Muslim request

Planned Balto. Co. school calendar denies Muslim request
Thread Tools
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 05:16 PM
 
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...ck=1&cset=true

What do you think about this? I think most reasonable people would accept that only Christian holidays be respected(bad terminology but I hope you understand what I mean) in a predominantly Christian country, but is it OK to accept holidays for certain other religions and not others?

IMHO you either keep the traditional Christian holidays only or you open up for more religious holidays from the bigger religions. Doing this(having a jewish holiday but denying muslim ones) is pretty close to discrimination IMO.

Opinions?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Secret__Police
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
To hell with all those heathens.
     
SVass
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington state
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 05:53 PM
 
To hell with the Christians! Maryland would not let Jews vote until 1827. My opinion of William is also pretty low. If All Hallows Eve can be recognized for the Wiccans, why not whatever for whomever? sam
     
bstone
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 05:59 PM
 
no desire to sign up for another spam list. kindly repost the article here?
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
von Wrangell  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone
no desire to sign up for another spam list. kindly repost the article here?
np, though for some reason I didn't need to sign up.

here you go:
Planned Balto. Co. school calendar denies Muslim request
Proposal doesn't provide 2 holidays but does give day off for Yom Kippur
By Sara Neufeld

Originally published May 10, 2005

The Baltimore County school system has proposed a calendar for the 2006-2007 academic year that does not include days off for the two most religious Muslim holidays, despite more than a year of lobbying by the Muslim community.

The proposed calendar, which does include a day off for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur, will be presented to the school board tonight. The board is scheduled to vote on the proposal next month.

Bash Pharoan, president of the Baltimore County Muslim Council, said he would continue fighting for the schools to close for Muslim holidays.

"I probably will have hope until the minute the board will approve or disapprove the calendar," he said yesterday.

Pharoan, who sits on the 26-member calendar committee that advises Baltimore County schools Superintendent Joe A. Hairston, said the committee did not vote on a proposed calendar and was not encouraged to reach consensus this year -- moves he felt were meant to silence him.

"I told the superintendent, 'What are we meeting for?'" he said.

Pharoan said he was also upset that Hairston has not appointed a task force to study how the calendar is created, as he said he would in January after a request by school board member Michael P. Kennedy. Kennedy has said the purpose of such a task force would be to find common ground with the Muslim community.

School system spokesman Charles A. Herndon said Hairston was "moving with deliberate speed" to appoint a committee, but "there really is no timetable set up at this point."

Herndon said Hairston did consider the viewpoints of everyone on the calendar committee in developing the proposal.

Since early last year, Muslim parents, students and community activists have turned out at every county school board meeting asking the district to close school on Eid al-Fitr, which celebrates the end of Ramadan, and Eid al-Adha, which celebrates the Quranic account of God's allowing Abraham to sacrifice a sheep instead of his son.

Alternatively, the group says it would be satisfied if schools remained open on the Jewish High Holy Days, Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. (The proposed calendar does not include a day off for Rosh Hashana because it falls on a Sunday in fall of 2006. The calendar for the 2005-2006 academic year is set.)

District officials say that closing schools on Muslim holidays would set a precedent the system would have to follow for any number of other religious and ethnic groups. But they do not want to retract the Jewish holidays that have been part of the calendar since 1995.

Before schools began closing for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, district officials said, some schools had been so empty they risked state sanctions for low attendance and had been unable to find enough substitute teachers.

Kennedy, the school board member perceived as most sympathetic to the Muslims' request, said the calendar is skewed toward Christianity and Judaism.

"I wouldn't mind seeing the Muslim holidays in the calendar, to be honest with you," he said yesterday.

In December, a state education department committee proposed that public school students across Maryland be given up to two "floating holidays" for religious observances. The proposal was designed to satisfy Baltimore County's Muslim community, but Pharoan said he would not be happy so long as schools are closed on the Jewish holidays and open on the Muslim holidays.

The State Board of Education has not acted on the proposal.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
PacHead
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Capital of the World
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 07:08 PM
 
Kennedy, the school board member perceived as most sympathetic to the Muslims' request, said the calendar is skewed toward Christianity and Judaism.

Yep, that's 'cause the USA is a judeo-christian nation, take it or leave it. It will never become muslim in any way, shape or form.

Considering how tolerant muslim countries are towards those of other beliefs, I fail to see why anybody should be tolerant towards them.

Try opening a church in Saudi Arabia for example, and you'll probably find your head severed from your body pretty quick.

A great many mosques in the USA spread racist, hate speech, and I do not wish to give any holidays to these people.

Representatives from the human-rights organization Freedom House spent a year sampling Saudi-supplied literature at mosques in major American cities, and encountered a variety of troubling texts.

The documents stress that when Muslims are in the lands of the unbelievers, they must behave as if on a mission behind enemy lines. Either they are there to acquire new knowledge and make money to be later employed in the jihad against the infidels, or they are there to proselytize the infidels until at least some convert to Islam.

http://freedomhouse.org/religion/new...2005-01-28.htm

     
idjeff
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Torrance by day, Pasadena by night
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 07:19 PM
 
I know how they feel...I'm a veteran and I never get Veteran's Day off

All joking aside, what constitutes the reason for a day off from school? Thanksgiving isn't a religious holiday, nor are a few others that close down school for a day.

You gotta tame the beast before you let it out of its cage.
     
SVass
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington state
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 07:39 PM
 
" District officials say that closing schools on Muslim holidays would set a precedent the system would have to follow for any number of other religious and ethnic groups. But they do not want to retract the Jewish holidays that have been part of the calendar since 1995."

Gee it only took 220 years to add Jewish holidays. Mary's land must be a Judeo-Christian state.
     
von Wrangell  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 08:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
Kennedy, the school board member perceived as most sympathetic to the Muslims' request, said the calendar is skewed toward Christianity and Judaism.

Yep, that's 'cause the USA is a judeo-christian nation, take it or leave it.
Then you shouldn't have a problem with a holiday on Eid al-Adha.

And that you act like only Muslims behave like that is just sad.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
PacHead
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Capital of the World
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell

And that you act like only Muslims behave like that is just sad.
We are currently at war with a part of Islam, a religious war which they have declared on the US and others. I don't believe it is appropriate to grant any islamic holidays, considering that fact.
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
We are currently at war with a part of Islam, a religious war which they have declared on the US and others. I don't believe it is appropriate to grant any islamic holidays, considering that fact.
Funny, none of my muslim coworkers or friends seem to have any problem with 'us'.

Personally I say we should stop officially recognized all religious holidays. Hell, make it all holidays period. What a waste of time...
     
SVass
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington state
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
We are currently at war with a part of Islam, a religious war which they have declared on the US and others. I don't believe it is appropriate to grant any islamic holidays, considering that fact.
We are actually at war with parts of Christianity. They blow up abortion clinics.
     
SimpleLife
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
We are currently at war with a part of Islam, a religious war which they have declared on the US and others. I don't believe it is appropriate to grant any islamic holidays, considering that fact.
You are.
     
PacHead
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Capital of the World
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by SVass
We are actually at war with parts of Christianity. They blow up abortion clinics.
When a christian terrorist group, with major ties to the vatican and churches all across the globe declares a religious war upon us, and murders thousands of people in a barbaric attack, then you might have a point.

     
Zimphire
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by SVass
If All Hallows Eve can be recognized for the Wiccans
Halloween is a kid's holiday. And wasn't recognized for Wiccans .

As a matter of fact, it was being practiced in the US before Wicca was.
     
Zimphire
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman
Personally I say we should stop officially recognized all religious holidays. Hell, make it all holidays period. What a waste of time...
How about you just not recognize it?
Originally Posted by SVass
We are actually at war with parts of Christianity. They blow up abortion clinics.
SVass I want to you to go find all of the times that has happened, and when the last one of those happened.

And as SOON as it did happen. The Christian community DENOUNCED it in a LARGE way in this country.

But lets not let that stop you from making bizarro comparisons.
     
PacHead
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Capital of the World
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by SimpleLife
You are.
Yep, you are very perceptive. I am against the ideology of islamic terrorists in the same way that I am against the ideology of nazis, communists and other defects of mankind.

     
Zimphire
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 09:41 PM
 
Including those who would bomb abortion clinics in the name of Christianity.
     
Atriot
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 10, 2005, 11:52 PM
 
Wow the lack of making distinctions continues to amaze me, Islam and terrorism are not one in the same. Islam is a viable religion, the followers of Islam are for the vast majority NOT extremists or violent in any manner. Alot of people on this forum fall victim to the availbility heuristic.
     
Taliesin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
When a christian terrorist group, with major ties to the vatican and churches all across the globe declares a religious war upon us, and murders thousands of people in a barbaric attack, then you might have a point.

As I far as I remember, correct me if I'm wrong, there is no islamic equivalence to the vatican or the catholic church, there is no islamic pope, no islamic bishops, no religious organization that can declare a religious war upon anyone and speak for the majority of muslims. Ok, there are these shia-mullas and ayatollahs, but shia-Islam represents only 10% of Islam and their "church" is organized and located mostly in Iran.

If you are somehow talking about "Al-Qaida" and Bin Ladin, that one has more ties and connections to the US than to Islam. Al-Qaida and its ideology is a crude mixture of Saudi-Arabia's "Wahabism" and the US' "freedom-fighters"-idea when the US was happy to instrumentalise Islam through Saudi-Arabia's oil-financed "Wahabism" when it could be utilised against the Soviet-Union in Afghanistan.

Pakistan and Saudi-Arabia, the best allies of the US in the islamic world, are the ones teaching the wahabitic ideology that threatens the western as well as islamic world.

Taliesin
     
Taliesin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 04:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
..and murders thousands of people in a barbaric attack, then you might have a point.

From the point of view of Al-Qaida and there are considerable parts of the islamic world that agree with that notion, is that the war was actually started by the US/western world in 1991, when they attacked an islamic country namely Iraq and build and manned military bases in another country, namely Saudi-Arabia, not to talk about the numerous small Gulf-states that since then feature US-bases.

This idea was much supported by the notion that the US-armies didn't leave the islamic world once Iraq was defeated but remained in all neighbouring countries and even started daily air-attacks on Iraq and even put economic sanctions on Iraq that more than anything hurt the civilian population considerably.

The US-forces also continued to stay in Saudi-Arabia...

So, Al-Qaida had every right to attack US-forces, that started the war, in order to convince them to leave the islamic world. Unfortunately though Al-Qaida chose to use the tactics learned from the CIA during the Afghanistan-campaign against the Soviets, in order to attack soft spots like embassies, civilians and the WTC in 93 and 01, and to use suicide-bombings..., which makes Al-Qaida as evil as the US.

Both attack civilians on purpose in order to win a war, the list of US-actions against civilians is long: the nukes against japanese towns, before that the fire-bombing of japanese-towns, the carpet-bombing in Vietnam, including napalm-use and chemical warfare like "Agent Orange", the secret carpet-bombing-campaign in Cambodia, the training, financing and equipping of terrorists throughout the world, including the prominent Bin Ladin, the assassinations of democratically elected politicians throughout the third-world, especially in South-America and the middle-east, the provocation and instilling of rebellions/revolutions/coups... and the installation/support/training/equipping of ruthless dictators including the prominent Saddam Hussein.

"War against terror" should be renamed to "War against the menace I myself created with the help of my lovely allies Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan, a few decades ago, but now it comes back and bites me, if I decide though to attack civilians to win the war, let's not call that terror, let's call it "Shock and awe" and to be more clear, let's not call those civilians killed by me "civilians", let's call them "terrorist-sympathisers" or "collateral damage" and oh, let's simply forget that I started the war/terror", but I guess that was too long for CNN and FOX, so they just shortened it by deleting the middle and only leaving the first two words and the last, much more catchy!

Taliesin
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Zimphire
How about you just not recognize it?
I already don't.

But if people can be offended/annoyed/threatened/whatever by the official recognition of Muslim holidays even if they don't personally celebrate them then I am equally justified in being offended/annoyed/threatened/whatever by the official recognition of Christian, Jewish, and Hallmark holidays.
     
Weyland-Yutani
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: LV-426
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
Kennedy, the school board member perceived as most sympathetic to the Muslims' request, said the calendar is skewed toward Christianity and Judaism.

Yep, that's 'cause the USA is a judeo-christian nation, take it or leave it. It will never become muslim in any way, shape or form.
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

(CIA Factbook)

I'm seeing 1% Jewsish vs 1% Muslim...

Rather insignificant size both of them.

“Building Better Worlds”
     
BoomStick
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 12:02 PM
 
I don't have a problem with muslems going to kiss the magic meteor from allah.

I bet I could make a fortune selling rocks from my back yard as haaj rocks.
     
SVass
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington state
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

(CIA Factbook)
I'm seeing 1% Jewsish vs 1% Muslim...
Rather insignificant size both of them.
Those are US statistics. This is Baltimore- Churches: Roman Catholic, 72; Jewish, 50; Protestant and others, 344;
     
Weyland-Yutani
Mac Elite
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: LV-426
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 12:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by SVass
Those are US statistics. This is Baltimore- Churches: Roman Catholic, 72; Jewish, 50; Protestant and others, 344;
That would make it 10% jewish and .. how much muslim? You don't say.

Calling even this area Judeo-Christian is reaching.

“Building Better Worlds”
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 01:14 PM
 
I was in Maryland's public school system for several years as a child, before they started giving entire schools time off for the Jewish holidays. However, even though school remained in session, Jewish children were allowed to take these days off if they chose.

I don't see what the problem with this system was. Were it to be reinstated, it could easily be extended for Muslim holidays (at least for the two mentioned). Indeed, it could be extended for any pairs of holidays for various religions. Why not go with this?

Actually, I suppose this begs the question: why did the school system move to completely close school during these holidays in the first place?
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
BoomStick
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 01:18 PM
 
Notice how seperation of church and state isn't questioned when it's a radical islamic group that wants their "holiday" forced upon the schools.

Will all of the students be forced to kiss the magic meteor when they enter the school?
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zimphire
Halloween is a kid's holiday. And wasn't recognized for Wiccans .
The second is true, though the first is not. As for "recognition", I don't think it quite applies in the same way. Being allowed to wear costumes to school is different from actually getting the day off, and I think this is where the issue is. For that matter, school Halloween observances usually bear very little resemblance to the Samhain observances of pretty much any faith which has them, to the point where a few boneheads have suggested dropping the school observances for fear of offending anyone.
As a matter of fact, it was being practiced in the US before Wicca was.
Given that Wicca as we know it is about fifty years old, this true pretty much worldwide, not just in the US. However, some of the older traditions from which Wicca draws its beliefs and practices have existed in small pockets for a very long time, both in the US and elsewhere.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
eklipse
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 01:36 PM
 
Why would anyone object to an extra day off work/school?
     
Millennium
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by eklipse
Why would anyone object to an extra day off work/school?
Few would, but with so many holidays for so many religions, a line needs to be drawn somewhere or there won't be any days left.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 02:17 PM
 
why would anyone object to a day off of work or school? Because it's another day unpaid, or a day an employer has to give up and pay for, and the school year is already 180 days typically, subtract another ten for absences due to illness, and soon enough there's no room to get any instruction in.

In a workplace where flexible time is already instituted, it's easy enough for the employer to declare that everyone has the same amount of personal days and that if one uses them for holidays, so be it.

Education doesn't allow for flexible time and personal days as such- learning will be conducted and it is best if the student is present for it. In fact, longer school years are being explored, including year-round school, with success.
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.
     
SimeyTheLimey
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alexandria, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by SVass
Gee it only took 220 years to add Jewish holidays. Mary's land must be a Judeo-Christian state.



You aren't one of those who think that Maryland is named after the Virgin Mary, are you? It was named after Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles I. Maryland Archives.

     
SVass
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Washington state
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 11, 2005, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey


You aren't one of those who think that Maryland is named after the Virgin Mary, are you? It was named after Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles I.
No, actually, I had assumed William III and Mary II (1689-1702 AD). It wasn't of great concern to me. I actually spent two years in the state at Fort Detrick long ago. You don't seem to recognize sarcasm as Maryland gave Jews the right to vote only in 1827. Put simply, they are a Christian state. Of course my school in Illinois required everyone to attend a Lutheran prayer service in order to graduate from 8th grade. My employer, a major corporation, when running a temporary office in downtown New Orleans discovered that Mardi Gras had to be recognized as a paid holiday there as no one could get to work. sam
     
Taliesin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 12, 2005, 03:35 AM
 
My take on it, is that the US with a predominantly christian population, only christian holydays should be legislated so that work and school stops.

That said it's discrimination that the jewish holydays got legislated, too, eventhough the jewish population is as small as the islamic population. That should be reversed in order to create equal rights.

If a jewish/islamic employee/pupil/student... wants to observe a holyday of his religion, he/she can do so without a legislation and can take these days off.

Taliesin
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 12, 2005, 08:37 AM
 
Taliesin,

That legislation isn't a law in every state. In most states, the school board determines the calendar, but doesn't actually write legislation.

In most states, the Jewish students must claim an excused absence which counts against their total permissible absences for the year. If they should get sick later in the year and exceed the number of permissible absences, they can be suspended or failed for the year, essentially punishing them in part for having worshipped.

The other problem with doing this is that the student appeals to the school administration for the absence to be excused. I personally had administrators who told me to "get a real religion" and called the absence unexcused.

What some school districts do to try and reach a balance is to schedule inclement weather make-up days on Jewish holy days, so that they don't expect to hold school but can if it is required to make up for lost time due to weather that prevented school from being held. Other school districts endeavor to not schedule school on the two most important Jewish holy days, but ignore the other dates.

Since the calendar is re-evaluated each year, and new school board members are elected with the same kind of frequency, the whole thing is subject to change.
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,