[von Wrangell]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4619377.stm

Can this be accepted? Kidnapping people in allied countries to send them to a third country for "questioning"? If the US value national independence why do they do things like this? What about the rights of other countries? Especially countries who are active in aiding in the WoT. Do innocent people now have to be afraid of being kidnapped by the US and be sent for torture somewhere? Or do you believe that it is 100% certain that the US will always get the Bad Guys™?

I can't believe this is acceptable.

[ThinkInsane]

Why is it that you condemn the US based on the rather flimsy evidence presented that these people were working for the CIA, but not the Egyptians that hooked the Imam up to a car battery?

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Why is it that you condemn the US based on the rather flimsy evidence presented that these people were working for the CIA, but not the Egyptians that hooked the Imam up to a car battery?

There are a couple of reasons.

1) I once expected more of the USA. I expected the USA to uphold human rights instead of breaking them. I guess I still have this inkling of hope that one day that expectation of mine will come true.

2) I know that Egypt does this and I don't "expect" anything better from them.

3) I hoped that the US would be able to follow basic laws and not kidnap and transport people to be tortured.

4) I hate America

5) Basically because I believe there is still hope that America will become what it claims to be and defend human rights of all people. "All men are created equal" and such.

6) I know human rights suck in Egypt and I've come to expect from them that they behave like this(one of the reasons I'm always very hesitant about going there or working with Egyptian scientists).

[rambo47]

That's one hell of a double-standard you've got going there. Have you simply given up on Egypt's human rights?

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Can this be accepted? Kidnapping people in allied countries to send them to a third country for "questioning"?

If they send agents into an allied country to kidnap a guy, they probably have very good reason to do so. Didn't you see the latest season of 24?

[Wiskedjak]

I don't think it's so much that the US is being condemned and not Egypt. This kind of activity is condemned despite the county involved, but it's so much more disappointing when countries that are critical of the actions of dictatorial nations borrow from their handbook

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

I don't think it's so much that the US is being condemned and not Egypt. This kind of activity is condemned despite the county involved, but it's so much more disappointing when countries that are critical of the actions of dictatorial nations borrow from their handbook

Nevertheless, despite the flimsy evidence for a CIA connnection, the US is already being held guilty until proven innocent. Does this not also fly in the face of the principles of human rights? No one holds the moral high ground here, not because none exists but because everyone has abandoned it.

[Kevin]

Mill it just goes along with the anti-american zealous nature of these people.

They HOPE it's true so badly, they already made their minds up.

[von Wrangell]

update:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/26/in...l?pagewanted=1

[Athens]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4619377.stm

Can this be accepted? Kidnapping people in allied countries to send them to a third country for "questioning"? If the US value national independence why do they do things like this? What about the rights of other countries? Especially countries who are active in aiding in the WoT. Do innocent people now have to be afraid of being kidnapped by the US and be sent for torture somewhere? Or do you believe that it is 100% certain that the US will always get the Bad Guys™?

I can't believe this is acceptable.

If the US ever pulled a stunt like that here in Canada I would be the first to start smashing out the windows of every American car thats here to send a message go home not welcome.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Mill it just goes along with the anti-american zealous nature of these people.

They HOPE it's true so badly, they already made their minds up.

Get off your high horse and come back down to earth budy.

[Hawkeye_a]

I.c.c.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

Get off your high horse and come back down to earth budy.

So first you jump me for leaving a letter out of a post, without even reading the article in it, now you just made totally irrelevant silly post to tell me to come back down to earth .

Next thing you are going to tell is "Get a life man"

You are really burning me man, I don't know what I am going to do.

[von Wrangell]

Except post something completely off topic to get this thread derailed and then locked. PM each other if you both need to express your love for each other.


The evidence is mounting for this accusation and still the conservatives on here are rather quiet about it. I take it they support this action.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Except post something completely off topic to get this thread derailed and then locked. PM each other if you both need to express your love for each other.

I will remember that the next time you go fan-boying.

The evidence is mounting for this accusation and still the conservatives on here are rather quiet about it. I take it they support this action.

Or maybe we are waiting to see what pans out instead of HOPING for the worst like you are.

But hey believe what you want. You are going to regardless of the truth anyhow.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

So first you jump me for leaving a letter out of a post, without even reading the article in it, now you just made totally irrelevant silly post to tell me to come back down to earth .

Next thing you are going to tell is "Get a life man"

You are really burning me man, I don't know what I am going to do.

I didnt jump you for leaving out a letter, I didnt get what you where trying to say.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

I didnt jump you for leaving out a letter, I didnt get what you where trying to say.

Yes, because ONE letter in my sentence was missing.

It wasn't too hard to figure out. No one else had any problems.

You didn't even bother to read the article. Maybe you would have got what I was trying to say if you had.

In other words, in the future, just don't reply.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

I will remember that the next time you go fan-boying.

Or maybe we are waiting to see what pans out instead of HOPING for the worst like you are.

But hey believe what you want. You are going to regardless of the truth anyhow.

hoping for the worst give me a break, you America is the Best and can do no wrong types are all the same. Im not hoping for anything, BBC and italy says this happened, we comment on it and next thing you know its the same old same old, Anti American terrorist loving if you aint with us you are against crap. This is a serious offence if its true, and the fact that there is a policy on it that does allow for it in itself is serious. Kidnapping people from other countries and sending them off to places that allow abouse has so much potential for abuse. What will your thoughts about it be if Washington comes clean and says yes this did happen. Will you be supportive of it or against it. And if you are supportive of it, explain why you are.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Yes, because ONE letter in my sentence was missing.

It wasn't too hard to figure out. No one else had any problems.

You didn't even bother to read the article. Maybe you would have got what I was trying to say if you had.

In other words, in the future, just don't reply.

In the future dont post links to big ariticles with out highlighting what is in it. thats just bad posting edicate. And it was as much to do with the entire sentence as it was the letter. Perhaps you dont know this cuz I havent seen you posting before im dislexic. Sentances like that just dont click.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Or maybe we are waiting to see what pans out instead of HOPING for the worst like you are.

Why do you think the US has been silent when asked about this?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Why do you think the US has been silent when asked about this?

I imagine damage control, trying to figure a way out. Now my question is, if this is true which I dont see why it wouldn't be, how many others have there been that didnt get discovered. The reason this one did is because the Italian government was already watching this guy and doing a investigation on him. And would the CIA/FBI pull this stunt on Americans as well to excape US law?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Athens

I havent seen you posting before

He's Zimphire.

You've seen him post more than 95% of the other members here combined.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

I.c.c.

quoted for emphasis.

And here, I suspect, is the actual reason for US refusal to support the ICC.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by analogika

He's Zimphire.

You've seen him post more than 95% of the other members here combined.

I suspected it was but Zimphire had more intelegent posts in the past, the style of posting is to different, are u sure or did I just not notice most of his old posts lol.

[analogika]

No, Kevin had toned it down over the past few months. It's been a while since his last comparable high-volume inanity rampage/posting spree.

[Athens]

ah that would explain it then. I suspected just based on the volume of posts, time of posts and the use of graphics from his site

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

you America is the Best and can do no wrong types

whoaah there buddy. When did I say that? Put that knee back in place.

are all the same. Im not hoping for anything, BBC and italy says this happened, we comment on it and next thing you know its the same old same old, Anti American terrorist loving if you aint with us you are against crap.

Athens your words you type speak for themselves. You may want to rethink the way you post then.

This is a serious offence if its true, and the fact that there is a policy on it that does allow for it in itself is serious. Kidnapping people from other countries and sending them off to places that allow abouse has so much potential for abuse. What will your thoughts about it be if Washington comes clean and says yes this did happen. Will you be supportive of it or against it. And if you are supportive of it, explain why you are.

You know what I will do? I will study all aspects of it before I will make a comment .

Like I usually do.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

Now my question is, if this is true which I dont see why it wouldn't be,

Thanks for proving my point.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

He's Zimphire.

You've seen him post more than 95% of the other members here combined.

Originally Posted by Athens

I suspected it was but Zimphire had more intelegent posts in the past, the style of posting is to different, are u sure or did I just not notice most of his old posts lol.

Originally Posted by analogika

No, Kevin had toned it down over the past few months. It's been a while since his last comparable high-volume inanity rampage/posting spree.

Originally Posted by Athens

ah that would explain it then. I suspected just based on the volume of posts, time of posts and the use of graphics from his site

BTW guys, your fanboy fees are due.

[eklipse]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4619377.stm

Can this be accepted?

More to the point: What is anyone going to do about it? (other than bitch and moan about the big-bad-US)

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

Thanks for proving my point.

Based on the history of the US why would I not beleive it, that instantly makes me Anti American?

Lets put it this way, if the story said CSIS did this I would believe it too and be fuming mad at Ottawa.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by KevinK

BTW guys, your fanboy fees are due.

Do I get a recipt?