[von Wrangell]

The violence started on Sunday, when thousands of young white men attacked people of Arabic and Mediterranean background on Cronulla Beach - apparently in revenge for a recent attack on two lifeguards.

Oh, of course. That's the reason for you guys "missing" it..... silly me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4523426.stm

The great Western Media is also doing it's job of changing the focus of this event.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4523996.stm


Or maybe it was just me who missed the original thread?

[Doofy]

Didn't miss it at all. Since it's Christmas and good will to all men (etc.), I thought I'd save you the trouble of having to explain how the concept of islamic territorial expansion doesn't come into how the events transpired.

Originally Posted by Wiki

On Sunday 4 December 2005, a group of male youths playing soccer on Cronulla beach, and described as being of Middle Eastern appearance were asked by the North Cronulla surf lifesavers to stop playing soccer, as it was disturbing other users of the beach. The response from the youths was: "Get off our beach. This is our beach. We own it." Shortly thereafter either two or three surf lifesavers were assaulted

Same thing is happening with islamics in my local park.

Do you not find it strange that wherever we're talking about it always seems to be muslims involved? White vs muslims, Indians vs muslims, black vs muslims?
It it something that everyone else is doing wrong or something that you guys are doing wrong?

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Didn't miss it at all. Since it's Christmas and good will to all men (etc.), I thought I'd save you the trouble of having to explain how the concept of islamic territorial expansion doesn't come into how the events transpired.

So because a small group of youths attack someone it is OK that thousands of men attack completely innocent people (amongst the victims women and children). Just because they look Arab.

Same thing is happening with islamics in my local park.

Do you not find it strange that wherever we're talking about it always seems to be muslims involved? White vs muslims, Indians vs muslims, black vs muslims?
It it something that everyone else is doing wrong or something that you guys are doing wrong?

Because that is the only thing that makes the news in the west perhaps? Heard about events in Africa lately? Asia? And the list goes on.

[RAILhead]

I heard about it.

What would you like me to do?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

So because a small group of youths attack someone it is OK that thousands of men attack completely innocent people (amongst the victims women and children). Just because they look Arab.

I dunno. What does it say in your book about defensive wars?

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Because that is the only thing that makes the news in the west perhaps? Heard about events in Africa lately?

What? You mean like the Sudan, where non-muslims are being slaughtered in their thousands by muslims?

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I heard about it.

What would you like me to do?

Condemn it as strongly as you condemned those who rioted in Europe perhaps?

Nah, of course not.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I dunno. What does it say in your book about defensive wars?

Not to attack innocent people. But since when did you become Muslim and want to understand anything about Islam?

What? You mean like the Sudan, where non-muslims are being slaughtered in their thousands by muslims?

Perhaps you should read up a bit on the conflict in Sudan? Because you seem to be completely unaware of what's going on there.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Not to attack innocent people.

And how does it define "innocent"?

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Perhaps you should read up a bit on the conflict in Sudan? Because you seem to be completely unaware of what's going on there.

The Darfur conflict is an ongoing conflict in the Darfur region of western Sudan, mainly between the Janjaweed, a governnment-supported militia recruited from local Arab tribes, and the non-Arab peoples of the region.

Oh. OK.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

And how does it define "innocent"?

Those who aren't fighting.

Oh. OK.

Thanks for highlighting your ignorance on the subject.

Take a look at what you wrote and the part you quoted.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Condemn it as strongly as you condemned those who rioted in Europe perhaps?

Nah, of course not.

...and that will help the situation how, exactly?

[segovius]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Do you not find it strange that wherever we're talking about it always seems to be muslims involved? White vs muslims, Indians vs muslims, black vs muslims?

BNP representative Obergruppenführer Norman Ramsbottom said today "It seems that whenever we are forced to practice extreme physical violence, an ethnic minority is somehow involved. They just get everywhere - it's time to take a stand."

In other news a Muslim man was arrested today for repeatedly smashing his head against the steel toe-capped boots of a Mr Wayne Chavworthy of Little England.

Mr Chavworthy's family are rallying round and there has been mass community support although there are concerns tonight that his Doctor Marten's boots may have suffered minor scratches.

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

...and that will help the situation how, exactly?

It will give you the Moral Highground [TM].


P.S. How do you do a TM symbol on a PC? I'm at work.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

...and that will help the situation how, exactly?

Did it help when you (plural) condemned the people rioting in Europe (and all their fellow Muslims/Arabs/foreigners)?





OT: is there a way of making a good distinction between you (singular) and you (plural) in English like in the sentence above? </stupid question>

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by segovius

BNP representative Obergruppenführer Norman Ramsbottom said today "It seems that whenever we are forced to practice extreme physical violence, an ethnic minority is somehow involved. They just get everywhere - it's time to take a stand."

In other news a Muslim man was arrested today for repeatedly smashing his head against the steel toe-capped boots of a Mr Wayne Chavworthy of Little England.

Mr Chavworthy's family are rallying round and there has been mass community support although there are concerns tonight that his Doctor Marten's boots may have suffered minor scratches.

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

OT: is there a way of making a good distinction between you (singular) and you (plural) in English like in the sentence above? </stupid question>

I don't think so.

[nath]

Originally Posted by segovius

BNP representative Obergruppenführer Norman Ramsbottom said today "It seems that whenever we are forced to practice extreme physical violence, an ethnic minority is somehow involved. They just get everywhere - it's time to take a stand."

In other news a Muslim man was arrested today for repeatedly smashing his head against the steel toe-capped boots of a Mr Wayne Chavworthy of Little England.

Mr Chavworthy's family are rallying round and there has been mass community support although there are concerns tonight that his Doctor Marten's boots may have suffered minor scratches.

++

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Did it help when you (plural) condemned the people rioting in Europe (and all their fellow Muslims/Arabs/foreigners)?

OT: is there a way of making a good distinction between you (singular) and you (plural) in English like in the sentence above? </stupid question>

Yes.

Y'all = singular.
All y'all = plural.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by segovius

BNP representative Obergruppenführer Norman Ramsbottom said today "It seems that whenever we are forced to practice extreme physical violence, an ethnic minority is somehow involved. They just get everywhere - it's time to take a stand."

In other news a Muslim man was arrested today for repeatedly smashing his head against the steel toe-capped boots of a Mr Wayne Chavworthy of Little England.

Mr Chavworthy's family are rallying round and there has been mass community support although there are concerns tonight that his Doctor Marten's boots may have suffered minor scratches.

You're an idiot.

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

And you.

Originally Posted by nath

++

And you.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

And you.

You're a BNP sympathiser...with a handbag.

[nath]

dp..

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Those who aren't fighting.

Since there's only about 100 Oz blokes doing the fighting, does that mean that the other 4,900 who're just standing around are innocent in your eyes? No, thought not.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

You're a BNP sympathiser...

Since I'm not, you're an idiot.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by placebo1969

I don't think so.

Thanks

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes.

Y'all = singular.
All y'all = plural.

Aight!

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You're an idiot.

Takes one to know one...... no wait...... I know what I am but what are ........ no..... hmmm............

You're probably right.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Since I'm not, you're an idiot.

Funny, your interpretation of events seems very similar to theirs. It seems you sympathise with their views.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=686

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nath

Funny, your interpretation of events seems very similar to theirs. It seems you sympathise with their views.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=686

Sorry, try again. I'm getting my info off Australians.

[Y3a]

I guess they couldn't have been "REAL" muslims but just more terrorists who are currently getting their faces punched in by the Aussies?

[swrate]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Oh, of course. That's the reason for you guys "missing" it..... silly me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/4523426.stm

The great Western Media is also doing it's job of changing the focus of this event.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4523996.stm


Or maybe it was just me who missed the original thread?

Ironic isn’t it once more we witness racism and xenophobia in a country recently conquered by Caucasians, when at the origine, Australia was populated by aborigines only.

these 9/11. Bali, terrorism events have really stirred the minds

[Face Ache]

Picking on Australians for being Australian in Australia is never going to go down well.

"As soon as they saw me they said, 'Die, you Aussie dog. We're going to kill you'."

I hope we kick these Lebanese gang members' arses all the way back to Lebanon.

[Kerrigan]

I don't know much about the situation in Australia, but here are my 2p:

Why can't Islamic youth be brought up with a proper sense of identity? It seems to me that well-meaning, hard-working Muslims immigrate to a country, only to have their children become completely disconnected from their ethnic culture.

I think Islamic immigrants need to follow the same example of early Catholic American immigrants. The Irish were always marginalised in America, and for good reason: they looked different, followed a strange religion, often got into fights, seemed "dirty" etc etc. But they set up their own schools, universities, and organisations that helped develop a tightly-knit sub-culture which contributed a lot to American culture at large.

Even to this day, an Irish-American on the East Coast can be covered from cradle to grave, by going to an Irish-Catholic school, then to one of the many fine Catholic universities, and in adult life they can be connected to Irish charities and other organisations. The whole time they are developing a strong sense of identity, which means that they won't revert to fundementalism or feel disconnected from society.

From what I gather, Islamic youth in the west don't have this same kind of supportive network. I have never seen or heard of a respectable Islamic educational institution. There are no Islamic heros in films, and they don't have any equivalent to Ted Kennedy. They are basically tossed out into the world without any support.

Or maybe I am wrong and Islam is just incompatible with modern life. Who knows.

[ITMacMan]

Perhaps it's not a race riot, but retribution.....

Perhaps this has something to do with it.

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...001021,00.html

[ITMacMan]

This has been going on in France, England and Australia for some time.....

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/se...rape-s06.shtml

[Face Ache]

There are Islamic schools in Oz.

In fact, just last night, they burned down a Uniting Church that stood next to one.

It also follows an incident last night in nearby St Joseph the Worker Primary School during which shots were fired into cars and parents abused at a Christmas carols service.

Either the cops pull these guys into line, or the citizens will. Aussies are a tolerant bunch, but enough is enough.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by ITMacMan

Perhaps it's not a race riot, but retribution.....

Perhaps this has something to do with it.

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...001021,00.html

That's exactly the problem.

I lived in Hurstville/Canterbury for five years - it's a bit like Beirut.

Maybe if the gangs hadn't shot up the local police stations the cops would have done something before now.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I don't know much about the situation in Australia, but here are my 2p:

Why can't Islamic youth be brought up with a proper sense of identity? It seems to me that well-meaning, hard-working Muslims immigrate to a country, only to have their children become completely disconnected from their ethnic culture.

I think Islamic immigrants need to follow the same example of early Catholic American immigrants. The Irish were always marginalised in America, and for good reason: they looked different, followed a strange religion, often got into fights, seemed "dirty" etc etc. But they set up their own schools, universities, and organisations that helped develop a tightly-knit sub-culture which contributed a lot to American culture at large.

Even to this day, an Irish-American on the East Coast can be covered from cradle to grave, by going to an Irish-Catholic school, then to one of the many fine Catholic universities, and in adult life they can be connected to Irish charities and other organisations. The whole time they are developing a strong sense of identity, which means that they won't revert to fundementalism or feel disconnected from society.

From what I gather, Islamic youth in the west don't have this same kind of supportive network. I have never seen or heard of a respectable Islamic educational institution. There are no Islamic heros in films, and they don't have any equivalent to Ted Kennedy. They are basically tossed out into the world without any support.

Or maybe I am wrong and Islam is just incompatible with modern life. Who knows.

A great observation dude. That can also be said of Italian immigrants(Catholic), the Portugeeses and Spanish (Catholic as well) and Jewish immigrants.

As strange as it might sound, every first and second generation of immigrants faces some kind of prejudice or the other. The italians, irish are prime examples as they were pretty much slaves to others. And then there's the African American community similar, although more tragic.

Speaking about the stuff in Sydney.... i'm a surfer, i know many surfers. They/we are some of the most laid back bunch ive ever known. peace lovin hippies is probably the best discription. From the looks of it, something went down at Cronulla. I know there are many lebanees and greek gangs on that side of the country, so something mustive happened that we havent heard of yet......that caused the riot. im not supporting the riot in any way shape or form, and to be honest im just plain shocked that it involved surfers of all demographics.

In the end though....... at least they(middle easter ppl in Oz) arent targets of bombs as most non-muslims in the mid east are on a daily basis. And whats more shocking is, i remember riots all over Australia before and during the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Show me one instance where people in the mideast revolted against militants targeting Christians and jews. HA !

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

That's exactly the problem.

I lived in Hurstville/Canterbury for five years - it's a bit like Beirut.

Maybe if the gangs hadn't shot up the local police stations the cops would have done something before now.

Mate, gang violence is one thing. what i dont like about any of this, is that innocent bystanders are getting involved (Both middle-easterners and others).

it's probably been brewing for awhile now. but i dont think ozzies need to be taking the law into their own hands. it's getting hot.....and the fact that those terrorists were arrested in Sydney(who just so happen to be muslims originating from the middle east (quite a coincidence isnt it?)) could have definately stirred things up.

Speaking of riots.......did the muslim community in Sydnet riot/rebel/revolt against islamic terrorists in Oz ? or were like....their families and friends completely clueless as to what was going on in their own homes ?

[Hawkeye_a]

von Wrangel, i love the title of thread, especially since it has been reported quite widely in Australia.

You, howevere, forgot to include a disclaimer, which i think should go something like this:
"It should be pointed out that the Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Budhist, Hindu, Zorastrian, Athiest,etc,etc..... communities seem to be getting along just fine, not only in Australia, but in N.America and Europe as well."

Think about that.

Cheers

P.S.>> if Australians can rally against the Howard government's participation in the war, why cant the Ozzie-middle-eastern community rally against the islamic terrorism in Indonesia and elsewhere ?

[swrate]

"It should be pointed out that the Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Budhist, Hindu, Zorastrian, Athiest,etc,etc..... communities seem to be getting along just fine, not only in Australia, but in N.America and Europe as well."

In France the rioters were not Muslims only, nor are the Australian rioters.



http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17570062-2,00.html

Mr Kanawati said it wasn't just Islamic Lebanese youths at Sunday's riots but Christian Lebanese were also involved.

[segovius]

Originally Posted by swrate

In France the rioters were not Muslims only, nor are the Australian rioters.

How do we know these guys in OZ are Muslims? Many Lebanese are Christians - many Australians are Christians too actually so maybe this is Christian rioting?

There is the usual double standard in this thread (imagine my shock) - anyone of Middle Eastern origin engaged in inappropriate behaviour = Muslim. Anyone western doing the same is merely a member of the public and not defined by religion.

And of course when Christians attack you never hear of it - the 30+ fire-bombed mosques and Muslim schools in Holland spring to mind (although that's ok because a Muslim killed a Dutchman so I shouldn't really mention it).

The War on Islam trundles on......

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by segovius

How do we know these guys in OZ are Muslims?

Because "get off our beach" is a muslim territorial thing. It happens here in our park. It happens the World over. It's their standard MO. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by United Muslims of Australia's Faid Kanawati

Mr Kanawati said it wasn't just Islamic Lebanese youths at Sunday's riots but Christian Lebanese were also involved.

Show me a similar quote by someone who isn't trying to improve the image of his own people and I'll perhaps be more inclined to believe it.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Not to attack innocent people. But since when did you become Muslim and want to understand anything about Islam?

Perhaps you should read up a bit on the conflict in Sudan? Because you seem to be completely unaware of what's going on there.

Tell us again your apologist stance on what is happening in the Sudan, and then I'll give you the names of about 100 Sudanese lost boys that will point out that you don't have a clue and are full of ****. And yes, I remember that you have claimed in the past that refugees aren't reliable and are biased or some such nonsense, unless of course what they are saying agrees with your stance.

I know these murderers are your "brothers", but you need to admit to yourself that their are members of your faith that are down right evil, nasty, vile, rapists and murderers, and that they are operating in the Sudan as we speak. You are a victim of your sides propaganda just as you claim anyone that disagrees with you is a victim of their side's propaganda.

You can excuse everything that muslims do, but it doesn't change the facts. Some people are just bad people, and their faith is irrelevant.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Because "get off our beach" is a muslim territorial thing. It happens here in our park. It happens the World over. It's their standard MO. Simple as that.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Tell us again your apologist stance on what is happening in the Sudan, and then I'll give you the names of about 100 Sudanese lost boys that will point out that you don't have a clue and are full of ****. And yes, I remember that you have claimed in the past that refugees aren't reliable and are biased or some such nonsense, unless of course what they are saying agrees with your stance.

I know these murderers are your "brothers", but you need to admit to yourself that their are members of your faith that are down right evil, nasty, vile, rapists and murderers, and that they are operating in the Sudan as we speak. You are a victim of your sides propaganda just as you claim anyone that disagrees with you is a victim of their side's propaganda.

Calm down TI.

I'll go through it with you.

Doofy said this:

What? You mean like the Sudan, where non-muslims are being slaughtered in their thousands by muslims?

There is very little of that going on in Sudan. In Sudan it's mostly Muslims against Muslims (Arabs vs. non-Arabs to be precise).

I answered with the above.

Doofy replied with this:

The Darfur conflict is an ongoing conflict in the Darfur region of western Sudan, mainly between the Janjaweed, a governnment-supported militia recruited from local Arab tribes, and the non-Arab peoples of the region.

Which doesn't even come close to backing up his original statement. He's just yet one ignorant person who thinks that all Muslims are Arabs.

And perhaps you notice how when he meant "in Sudan" he really meant "in Darfur"? Even if he is wrong even there. But the reason he is focusing on Darfur instead of the whole of Sudan is because if he'd want to discuss the whole of Sudan he'd need to mention Lord's Resistance Army, and who are they? Christian terrorists. (he, as well as many other, will of course say they aren't Christian).

So the next time you need to vent perhaps you should vent your anger at those on here that spout their ignorant racist propaganda instead on me? mkay?

You can excuse everything that muslims do, but it doesn't change the facts. Some people are just bad people, and their faith is irrelevant.

I won't excuse everything individual Muslims do. But I will defend Muslims (the group) from these constant attacks. Look at this thread. Look at what is happening in Australia and then see who is under attack here. Is it fair?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

He's just yet one ignorant person who thinks that all Muslims are Arabs.

And yet here you are, a white boy muslim - as I've pointed out before. Obviously muslim, obviously not arab. You know that I know both of these facts. Thus, your above statement is a blatant lie. If you can lie about something so simple, why should anyone believe anything else you write while you attempt to defend your brothers?

[Doofy]

And vW, you still haven't answered my question about whether you find the 4,900 folks who're "there but just standing around and not fighting" to be innocent or not.

[Kerrigan]

VW, are you a convert? I have some "white" Muslims friends but they are from Iran, and don't really think of themselves as white.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

VW, are you a convert? I have some "white" Muslims friends but they are from Iran, and don't really think of themselves as white.

We call it revert.

And I'm white as snow.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yes.

Y'all = singular.
All y'all = plural.

"Y'all" is plural.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

"Y'all" is plural.

Don't be too harsh on him, he's a Brit.