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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > How's the Finder in Tiger?

How's the Finder in Tiger?
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andretan
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Jan 17, 2005, 01:16 AM
 
I dunno about you guys but I find the following pretty annoying in Panther:

#1.
If I have a CD-R/RW mounted, and then use Toast to burn some files onto the disc, I end up having more than one or two CD icons appearing in the Desktop!
That's pretty retarted for something that *is* suppossed to be better than XP or Longhorn.

#2.
Are they going to introduce active and inactive title bars or something? If you got lots of windows around, you can't really tell what's active and what's not. Unless Apple's intention is for you to use Expose.
(I think this has been complained by quite a fair bit of OS X users)

#3.
I wish that the user (Admin) has the ability to "lock" the Dock, so that apps won't be accidentally dragged out of the dock and stuff like that.
I run as an Admin, and I don't wish to be running as a "normal" user.


Anything else you guys hate or find annoying about the Finder?
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msuper69
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:07 AM
 
#1 That is indeed a cosmetic bug. Oh the humanity! Such a travesty.

#2 Already there. The active window (the one with the input focus) has normal text while the inactive ones are greyed out.

#3 Never had that problem so can't comment on that one.
     
larkost
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Jan 17, 2005, 10:30 AM
 
1. a) why use toast...
b) what you are probably seeing is a dual format disk, one version for Windows, one for Mac, but since you have not given any more information about what you are doing, it could also be one of a few other things.

2. as msuper69 said... MacOS has done this for a long time... I definitely remember it in MacOS 6, so it is at least that old.

3. If you "chomd" the file ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.dock.plist so that you can only read it (no write access) then you will get this effect.
     
voodoo
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Jan 17, 2005, 11:07 AM
 
My gripes with the current Finder:

1. Spatial Finder doesn't remember window positions. Fix this please.

2. You can still see the same icon or file while in spatial Finder mode. Fixplz

3. Live file update in Finder. When you save a file, e.g. in Photoshop the icon of the changed file or a newly created file doesn't appear until you click on the Finder.

4. Better threading in the Finder already. Ohboy.

5. When emptying the trash the Finder could tell you how many kB/MB/GB you are emptying. With the incredible metadata system in 10.4 I just can't see how this should be a problem.

6. Trash on the Desktop

7. In icon mode shift-clicking files selects them individually, but in list mode you have to command-click to do the same - shift-clicking in list mode selects a batch of files not inividual ones. Hello?

8. Please kill the pinstripes already!

That will do for now. The Finder in 10.3 has evolved into something that is beginning to approach the OS 9 Finder in UI quality. Hope 10.4 adresses some of these issues.
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Zimphire
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Jan 17, 2005, 11:30 AM
 
Tony says it's GREEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAT!

And you can easily kill the pin stripes yourself. I did.
     
Superchicken
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Jan 17, 2005, 12:35 PM
 
I'm actually surprised we haven't seen any major hauling of Tiger's finder.
     
larkost
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Jan 17, 2005, 02:11 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
2. You can still see the same icon or file while in spatial Finder mode. Fixplz
um... what? Do you mean you can see the same thing in two different views? I don't see this as being a bad thing. I don't think Apple does either. Therefor it will not be "fixed".

3. Live file update in Finder. When you save a file, e.g. in Photoshop the icon of the changed file or a newly created file doesn't appear until you click on the Finder.
The enabler for this arrived late in the 10.3 cycle, so there is a good chance that it will make it into 10.4.

4. Better threading in the Finder already. Ohboy.
Your one valid point.

5. When emptying the trash the Finder could tell you how many kB/MB/GB you are emptying. With the incredible metadata system in 10.4 I just can't see how this should be a problem.
This is not a meta-data issue... file size has always been there. But this is more of a "what is the point" issue.

6. Trash on the Desktop
No. Not by default, and there are already haxies to put one there if you want it.

7. In icon mode shift-clicking files selects them individually, but in list mode you have to command-click to do the same - shift-clicking in list mode selects a batch of files not inividual ones. Hello?
Done for compatibility with MacOS 9 (where it was always an exception to the normal UI)

8. Please kill the pinstripes already!

That will do for now. The Finder in 10.3 has evolved into something that is beginning to approach the OS 9 Finder in UI quality. Hope 10.4 adresses some of these issues.
I would argue that the simple addition of column mode put it above MacOS 9 in usability, and that the targets on the side of the window shot it way above. The dock also gets rid of most of the need to interact in the Finder (a good thing regardless of Finder quality).
     
voodoo
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Jan 17, 2005, 04:26 PM
 
Sorry if you don't know what spatial is larkost. Can't do anything about that. As for all your other comments, they're pretty much worthless - only your opinion that mine are bad somehow. <shrug>

Everything I mentioned was a part of OS 9 so I'd say Apple does value these things. I regret there aren't any new features I'd like to see. Rather a reprise of the many good features we used to have.

On second thought, I'd like to see better ftp support in the Finder.
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larkost
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Jan 17, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
I do know what spacial is... I also know that MacOS X does not have a "spacial mode"... and just didn't point this out.

Here is what the whole thing boils down to: you are trying to use MacOS X as if it was MacOS 9. Its not. Apple has moved on. It is a much better experience once you truly make the transition. If you truly feel you need the spacial experience then install Gnome, they seem to have discovered it again... (another reason to use KDE on the linux side).
     
Devin Lane
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Jan 17, 2005, 06:23 PM
 
What exactly IS a spatial finder? Dictoinary.com was unable to help me figure out what you are talking about. Yes, I realize you said it didn't exist, but what WOULD it be like?
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Chuckit
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Jan 17, 2005, 06:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Devin Lane:
What exactly IS a spatial finder? Dictoinary.com was unable to help me figure out what you are talking about. Yes, I realize you said it didn't exist, but what WOULD it be like?
The OS 9 Finder. Rather than a file browser like the OS X Finder, it treated folders as being specific places you could only have one window open to a given folder, and that window "was" the folder.
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MartiNZ
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Jan 17, 2005, 06:44 PM
 
Which is basically the whole reason of having every folder open in a new window, a la OS 9 and earlier, and like the pseudo spatial system offered in Panther - although there it seems there is no reason for them to always open in new windows, except to make you go back to that nasty brushed metal.
     
m a d r a
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:26 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
.......When emptying the trash the Finder could tell you how many kB/MB/GB you are emptying. With the incredible metadata system in 10.4 I just can't see how this should be a problem....
or use the trash's dock icon to display how many MB the trash contains - in the same way that mail.app uses its dock icon to tell you how many unread emails you have.

the trash should give some indication as to 'how full' it is, so i can see when i should empty it to free up some space. the current 'two-state' situation whereby the finder displays either 'empy' or the same 'full' icon whether its got a single 4K text file in it, or a couple of GB worth of huge movies and graphics isnae very informative at all.

that said, the trash is the least of my worries about the finder!
     
asidrane
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:51 PM
 
I think the trash should display the amount of filespace about to be deleted, as it did in os 9. Many times I saved myself from deleting things unexpectedly when the alert stated that there were many megabytes in the trash instead of the few k i was expecting.
     
mAxximo
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:33 PM
 
Originally posted by larkost:
Here is what the whole thing boils down to: you are trying to use MacOS X as if it was MacOS 9. Its not. Apple has moved on. It is a much better experience once you truly make the transition.
No, it's not. Apple have not moved on, they have rather moved way backwards. What it used to be the best user experience ever is now just another Windows-like flavor of Unix.
OS X is being marketed as a Mac OS so it should try and behave like one despite Jobs' dislike for it. As in the Finder WAS the Mac. So if the new Finder sucks, OS X sucks. As simple as that. And oh boy it sucks.
     
QuadG5Man
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Jan 17, 2005, 10:38 PM
 
>>I think the trash should display the amount of filespace about to be deleted, as it did in os 9. Many times I saved myself from deleting things unexpectedly when the alert stated that there were many megabytes in the trash instead of the few k i was expecting.<<

I feel the same way.
     
Tyre MacAdmin
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Jan 17, 2005, 11:23 PM
 
i have to admit the disc thing with toast is annoying... but most of the time a window signaled by the finder will pop up and ask you what you want to do with the disc... if you hit ignore and continue using toast you'll end up with one disc instead of 2 on your desktop after it's burned.
     
Love Calm Quiet
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Jan 18, 2005, 12:02 AM
 
When I burn with iTunes I get a similar disc icon left under certain circumstances when ejecting from Finder (haven't burned lately - so I've forgotten the details). Something's weird.
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m a d r a
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Jan 18, 2005, 06:52 AM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
No, it's not. Apple have not moved on, they have rather moved way backwards. What it used to be the best user experience ever is now just another Windows-like flavor of Unix.
OS X is being marketed as a Mac OS so it should try and behave like one despite Jobs' dislike for it. As in the Finder WAS the Mac. So if the new Finder sucks, OS X sucks. As simple as that. And oh boy it sucks.
well said, that man!

still far too much "apple can do no wrong" syndrome around these parts.
     
mikelauder
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Jan 18, 2005, 07:40 AM
 
Originally posted by Devin Lane:
What exactly IS a spatial finder? Dictoinary.com was unable to help me figure out what you are talking about. Yes, I realize you said it didn't exist, but what WOULD it be like?
There'a a great article by John Siracusa over at Arstechnica. Although it's a wee bit biased towards the spacial model t does give a graet overview of what is good about it- and what's bad about Apple's implimentation of the browser.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:43 AM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
The OS 9 Finder. Rather than a file browser like the OS X Finder, it treated folders as being specific places you could only have one window open to a given folder, and that window "was" the folder.
True, but the "spatial" metaphor ONLY applied to icon view, really. The second you opened list view, you had spatially shifting items.

People need to face that the spatial Finder metaphor is DEAD. It broke a LONG time ago.

It ceased working really well around System 7, when List view became the preferred view for many situations.

There is NO WAY to properly and consistently implement a spatial Finder when you're managing upwards of a quarter MILLION files on your machine.
     
Kate
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:05 AM
 
The Finder lacks its old spatial feature. Well it has that still but mixes it with browsing mode. It would be better to separate these modes and give the choice to use either one rather than both mixed and stirred.

Besides this the Finder is the most prominent app to show off what can be done with a half hearted port of a classical Mac OS 9 app to Carbon. Much wrong that is. It is far from being unusable, but equally far from being a worthy example of Mac OS X features.

It is slow, unresponsive, buggy, inconsistent, a resource hog, and lacks general stability and robustness. For what it does it works clumsy and sometimes astonishing unreliable.

And for the foreseeable future I am fearing Apple will not dive very far into those hundreds of thousands of code lines to restructure or rebuild. Apple has kept info on the Tiger Finder very dim. I hope for some improvement though. Currently there is little to report from that front.
     
Krusty
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Jan 18, 2005, 10:49 AM
 
Originally posted by m a d r a:
or use the trash's dock icon to display how many MB the trash contains - in the same way that mail.app uses its dock icon to tell you how many unread emails you have.
I dunno, the simple empty/full thing works fine for me. There'd be quite a lot more info in such tag on the trash. In mail, the number refers to discrete emails. In the trash, how much more text would be needed to discriminate the number of items ... size (and you'd have to specify kb MB GB, etc as well in that little tag). Quite ugly if you has me. Now, if they wanted to put that information in the mouse-over label, that'd make some sense.
     
BuonRotto
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Jan 18, 2005, 11:51 AM
 
For starters, I'm not surprised that the Finder hasn't gotten a whole lot of attention in Tiger. With the introduction of Spotlight, combined with apps like iTunes, iPhoto, Font Book, and the Dock as already mentioned, there are fewer and fewer reasons to use the Finder. That is by design. I don't thihk the Finder will ever go away, but I am sure that it is not supposed to be the center or focus of the user experience. Considering how we have people trying to do everything through the finder instead of through dedicated and simpler means, I suspect Apple will some day make the Finder icon in the Dock removable because a lot of people simply won't need it in their everyday use of the system.

The spatial metaphor is also, like it or not, going the way of the dodo. We have seen an emphasis by Apple since they introduced OS X to reduce window clutter. They tried and abandoned single-window mode in the developer previews, they emphasized the column view for the Finder which greatly reduces the number of open windows that a spatial metaphor necessitates, they introduced Expose, and in Tiger they're introducing Spotlight which can show relevant data that's kept in different directories in one window. I think that looking back, the path is clear that Apple has always been concerned about how cluttered and labrynthian the filesystem looks in the Finder. They're moving away from presenting all this stuff, files, folders, different media, etc. in one catch-all application and using tons of windows. The spatial system is a good one at a rudimentary level, but when you have folders nested 3 or more levels into the system, it's more complex to navigate. That's what i don't tihnkk a lot of spatial Finder advocates get. There's a law of diminishing returns with that model. Even with the Finder only presented my home folder, the task of digging through my portfolio with all its nested folders and files which cannot be cross-referenced is a real chore.

I personally wouldn't mind Apple or some decent third party including a spatial finder-type app in addition to what we have already. But I think that it wouldn't be used much by most people.

I thought it was odd when the "Finder" lost its find feature for a short while -- Sherlock took over that role for a short while. While the name is different, the universal Spotlight tool is more akin to an actual finder than the Finder is at this point. While Spotlight is a better finder, dedicated apps like iTunes are becoming better organizers than the Finder, past or present. There will always be a place for a catch-all for those miscellaneous or unknown bits of data, but I think iPhoto-type apps that deal with organizing particular kinds of data will be multiplying and becoming more predominant. iPhoto and iTunes are also a kind of save-less UI, which is good for certain kinds of files and bad for others. For those files that are best left with the chore of saving only on demand, more functional open and save dialogs seem like a better place to focus attention anyway. I'd rather see a more Finder-like save dialog than a Finder with even more tools in its belt at this point.
     
mAxximo
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Jan 18, 2005, 01:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
People need to face that the spatial Finder metaphor is DEAD. It broke a LONG time ago.

It ceased working really well around System 7, when List view became the preferred view for many situations.

There is NO WAY to properly and consistently implement a spatial Finder when you're managing upwards of a quarter MILLION files on your machine.
What a bunch of clueless BS.

Spatial orientation will be dead the day our brains suffer some strange mutation that changes the way we perceive, analise, organise and interact with stuff.

Apple's intent to replace the scientifically proven and revolutionary Mac user experience with that of NeXT's is just another bad idea from the same geeks that introduced us to mandatory file extensions, permissions, privileges, recurrent system reinstalls a la Windows, blurry fonts, the laggy retarded interface that can't be customised and who also wanted to get rid of the Desktop, the Apple Menu and Icon View.

Yeah, those ones really know what works and what doesn't.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 18, 2005, 02:23 PM
 
Yeah, stupid permissions and privileges. I hate security. Why can't I just get a ****ing virus already?
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TETENAL
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Jan 18, 2005, 02:37 PM
 
1.)

Spatial Finder doesn't work any more. With the current amount of files, humans just can not build a mental model of them any more. I have hundreds of music files alone, no way am I going to remember where they are.

2.)

Permissions get into the way. They increase security and stuff, but the way they are implemented in OS X currently is not intuitive. There is much room improvement even though I currently don't have any suggestion on how this could be done.
I have been annoyed by it several times already, and that's enough for me to say it should be be better.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 18, 2005, 02:57 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
1.)

Spatial Finder doesn't work any more. With the current amount of files, humans just can not build a mental model of them any more. I have hundreds of music files alone, no way am I going to remember where they are.
The OS X file-browser approach doesn't solve the problem of having the slightest clue where a file is any better than a spatial approach would.

Originally posted by TETENAL:
2.)

Permissions get into the way. They increase security and stuff, but the way they are implemented in OS X currently is not intuitive. There is much room improvement even though I currently don't have any suggestion on how this could be done.
My take:[list=1][*]They need to give you the ability to authenticate anywhere that you don't have permissions to do something.[*]They should have an easy method of configuring groups.[*]They should have a preference to give individual applications default permissions to use, and the ability to customize permissions in the save dialog.[/list=1]
I think that would give users a level of control that would make it not so frustrating for some people without completely throwing out security altogether.
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Jan 18, 2005, 03:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
The OS X file-browser approach doesn't solve the problem of having the slightest clue where a file is any better than a spatial approach would.
The file browser doesn't, but iTunes does give me a quick way to find a certain song.
My take
My take: Permissions just need to transparently go away for me. It's great to have this stuff for security et al., but I just don't want to be bothered with it.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 18, 2005, 03:59 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
The file browser doesn't, but iTunes does give me a quick way to find a certain song.
...which existed in OS 9 too. Anyway, I don't see how that's relevant to the spatial vs. file browser discussion.
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voodoo
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Jan 18, 2005, 03:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
True, but the "spatial" metaphor ONLY applied to icon view, really. The second you opened list view, you had spatially shifting items.

People need to face that the spatial Finder metaphor is DEAD. It broke a LONG time ago.

It ceased working really well around System 7, when List view became the preferred view for many situations.

There is NO WAY to properly and consistently implement a spatial Finder when you're managing upwards of a quarter MILLION files on your machine.
Actually with the advent of Spotlight I think the spatial Finder can play a damn important role. Spotlight can find anything anywhere anytime, so that is the tool for working with the dynamic files you may have - such as projects or whatever. The spatial metaphor in the Finder is REALLY useful on the occations when you want to browse through your home folder or something very local and limited like that. Spatial really shines there, and there is nothing you can say to rebute that.

Spotlight for the machine in its entirety and spatial Finder for the rest. Column mode seems to be retireing in 10.4, at least as a default - so that puts more pressure on a refined and good spatial Finder in 10.4 IMHO.
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lookmark
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:26 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
Column mode seems to be retireing in 10.4, at least as a default - so that puts more pressure on a refined and good spatial Finder in 10.4 IMHO.
What gave you that idea?

Just because there's no column view after doing a Spotlight search in a Finder window -- it doesn't serve any purpose when looking at a list of search results, right? -- doesn't mean column view has been retired.

And when was column view ever a default, save in pre-Panther open/save dialog boxes? (Shiver.)

As for spatial vs. browser, c'mon everyone, they're *both* useful and important (to what degree, and for whom, we can all argue 'til doomsday). What's more of concern is that Finder's collection of frustrating bugs and failings gets fixed. No matter how amazing and useful Spotlight is, it's not going to completely replace the Finder any time soon.
     
leperkuhn
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
No, it's not. Apple have not moved on, they have rather moved way backwards. What it used to be the best user experience ever is now just another Windows-like flavor of Unix.
OS X is being marketed as a Mac OS so it should try and behave like one despite Jobs' dislike for it. As in the Finder WAS the Mac. So if the new Finder sucks, OS X sucks. As simple as that. And oh boy it sucks.
Personally I didn't like the OS 9 finder and every time i opened a window i held down option. It was an amazing pain when you open a window and then have to go to some other part of the screen just to get to the next folder. Talk about inconsistent.
     
clarkgoble
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:42 PM
 
I don't quite see the spatial Finder as useful for dealing with folders within folders. For dealing with an organized Folder yes. To me though the biggest flaw with the existing Finder is less the spatial Finder (which I think few actually need or use) than it is sorting in column view. Column view simply needs more features available in list view.

I do agree though that Spotlight won't resolve all issues. The folder view simply allows us to see relationships that Spotlight can't deal with as well.
     
clarkgoble
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:49 PM
 
Actually I'll tell you what would improve the Finder and most other applications in Tiger - being able to drag and drop within Expose. i.e. drop while all windows are reduced and have it work!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:59 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Actually I'll tell you what would improve the Finder and most other applications in Tiger - being able to drag and drop within Expose. i.e. drop while all windows are reduced and have it work!
It does in Panther.

You just have to drag on top of an exposd window and wait for it to pop up to the front!

This works globally, across all windows and all applications.

That to me is the best aspect of expos - I'm amazed not everyone knows this!
     
leperkuhn
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Jan 18, 2005, 04:59 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Actually I'll tell you what would improve the Finder and most other applications in Tiger - being able to drag and drop within Expose. i.e. drop while all windows are reduced and have it work!
you sir are in luck. go to the finder. grab a file. hit f9. go to the window you want to drag into. hit f9 again. drop.

Enjoy.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:01 PM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
What a bunch of clueless BS.
Hey, **** you too, mAxx.

All I have to say.
     
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:16 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Actually I'll tell you what would improve the Finder and most other applications in Tiger - being able to drag and drop within Expose. i.e. drop while all windows are reduced and have it work!
Emphasis mine. I took this to mean he already knows you can drag and drop with expos, it's just that he would like to do this without having to make the destination window come to the front.

I can see the advantage to that, but if the window has multiple drop zones (like say a Finder window with column view), you'd have to be careful where you drop it, especially if you have lots of windows open and they're all relatively small.
     
MrSundberg
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:37 PM
 
Originally posted by andretan:
Anything else you guys hate or find annoying about the Finder?
I've not encountered any major bug with it yet, but the again I've not used OSX Panter for very long. There is one small detail that I've noticed though that I'd like to be fixed:

You begin with draging a pice of text or a picture (I've tried this in safari and Entourage) directly to the Mac-HD icon making the finder pop up. Now try to use the shortcuts on the leftmost side of the finder.

For me atleast this doesn't work under 10.3.5-10.3.7 (the versions I've used of OSX). Using the regular folders in the big/main finder window works fine though.
     
barbarian
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Jan 18, 2005, 07:32 PM
 
It appears that many of my finder gripes will be fixed with Spotlight...

but it appears that Tiger still does not allow the user basic control over the look of the finder specifically control over the font and font size. I hate this.
     
clarkgoble
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Jan 18, 2005, 07:55 PM
 
Originally posted by leperkuhn:
you sir are in luck. go to the finder. grab a file. hit f9. go to the window you want to drag into. hit f9 again. drop.
You miss the point I was making. I want to skip the second hit F9 step (or equivalent with a multibutton mouse). The reason is that the second F9 moves the window so that it is no longer under the mouse. Yeah, it seems minor. But I'd seriously love to avoid that resize step.

Of course to be fair it may be a pain with the current setup. I'll make a bet that Apple embrace of resolution independence will move us towards this view. i.e. something like expose where the windows are, to some degree, usable.
     
Ratm
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:07 PM
 
Originally posted by andretan:
I dunno about you guys but I find the following pretty annoying in Panther:


#3.
I wish that the user (Admin) has the ability to "lock" the Dock, so that apps won't be accidentally dragged out of the dock and stuff like that.
I run as an Admin, and I don't wish to be running as a "normal" user.


Find the preference file for the dock, do a command+i and lock it.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Ratm:
Find the preference file for the dock, do a command+i and lock it.
They can still modify the Dock. Changes just don't stick between logins.
Chuck
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Toyin
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:56 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
The spatial metaphor in the Finder is REALLY useful on the occations when you want to browse through your home folder or something very local and limited like that. Spatial really shines there, and there is nothing you can say to rebute that.

Spotlight for the machine in its entirety and spatial Finder for the rest. Column mode seems to be retireing in 10.4, at least as a default - so that puts more pressure on a refined and good spatial Finder in 10.4 IMHO.
Column view is soooo much faster browsing and drilling through directories than the spatial finder motif. For example, I want to get to a cache file from Safari in Home/Library/Caches/Safari/04/10. With the spatial finder, I've already got 6 open windows. Oops, I made a mistake and I really wanted to check a cache file in Firefox. Now I've got to close 4 of those windows and go to Home/Library/Application Support/Firefox/Profiles/default.kpr/cache. Well, well now I've got seven windows open, not to mention any other detours I may have made to get to these files.

Like I've said since the PB. If we had allowed Apple to work on the finder as it was, I bet we'd have a killer column view with sorting and other capabilities. Instead mass hysteria about loss of icon and list view took focus away from the Finder to satisfy those unable to find new ways to use the finder.

The point is moot for the spatial finder anywho. It's going away and it is the minority (very vocal minority) that are completely disgusted with the finder. The finder doesn't bug me because I use Quicksilver to find files. Occasionally I forget what I'm looking for but I usually type the name of the folder I want, hit enter, and there it is. The only time I really use the finder is to move or copy large files. Spotlight is going to be like Quicksilver on steroids. One thing I'd like fixed in the Finder is full FTP function (though RBrowser lite is a great freeware alternative).

Originally posted by barbarian:
but it appears that Tiger still does not allow the user basic control over the look of the finder specifically control over the font and font size. I hate this.
Go to the Finder-> Select the window you have issues with Menubar->View->Show View Options->Select font size
-Toyin
13" MBA 1.8ghz i7
"It's all about the rims that ya got, and the rims that ya coulda had"
S.T. 1995
     
undotwa
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Jan 19, 2005, 02:25 AM
 
Originally posted by Toyin:
I bet we'd have a killer column view with sorting and other capabilities. Instead mass hysteria about loss of icon and list view took focus away from the Finder to satisfy those unable to find new ways to use the finder.
That is what I want - a beefed up column view with sorting capabilities! Icon view is completely pointless for everything save the desktop!
In vino veritas.
     
mAxximo
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Jan 19, 2005, 11:52 AM
 
Originally posted by Toyin:
The point is moot for the spatial finder anywho. It's going away and it is the minority (very vocal minority) that are completely disgusted with the finder.
I'm afraid the minority is you. Newcomers from the Unix/programming geek world are certainly a lot less than the legions of Mac veterans that don't care about NeXT's dreaded Column View or typing the path to a file in the Terminal, and only want the Finder to work as it was meant to be: spatially.
The only problem is most of those clueless newcomers are working at Apple right now. Which explains the current state of things in OS X.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2005, 12:36 PM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
I'm afraid the minority is you. Newcomers from the Unix/programming geek world are certainly a lot less than the legions of Mac veterans that don't care about NeXT's dreaded Column View or typing the path to a file in the Terminal, and only want the Finder to work as it was meant to be: spatially.
1.) PLEASE tell me you never, ever, EVER used anything BUT icon view in the Finder prior to OS X. Because if you've ever found List view more practical for anything, you've ****ed your argument.

2.) File paths in Terminal are a) auto-completing via tab, and b) drag-and-drop from Finder. You know, drag-and-drop. But that just FYI, since you've obviously never actually had to *use* the Terminal.

-s*

Edit: Wait. Sorry. I got suckered in. We've had this exact same bullsht argument about fifty times, YEARS ago. In fact, your bull was the reason I (and most others) left MacFixit back in the day. Thalo's deluges were easy to ignore. But your aggressive, ignorant yapping really got old.
     
Toyin
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Jan 19, 2005, 01:07 PM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
I'm afraid the minority is you. Newcomers from the Unix/programming geek world are certainly a lot less than the legions of Mac veterans that don't care about NeXT's dreaded Column View or typing the path to a file in the Terminal, and only want the Finder to work as it was meant to be: spatially.
The only problem is most of those clueless newcomers are working at Apple right now. Which explains the current state of things in OS X.
Uhh, no?
I've been using Mac OS since 7.5. I'd consider myself a 'power user' in the OS9 days (now I'm just a well informed user). OS X, finder included, blows away OS9 in terms of efficiency, especially while managing the some 100k + files that exist on average HD nowadays. OS 8.6 was the best classic Mac OS and things went down hill for the classic OS after that. Thank god the 'newcomers' scrapped OS9 and used NEXT OS, an infinitely more stable and robust OS. If it wasn't for OSX, I and I'm sure a fair number of Mac users would have moved to Windows 2K, which at the time was much better than the Mac OS.

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
1.) PLEASE tell me you never, ever, EVER used anything BUT icon view in the Finder prior to OS X. Because if you've ever found List view more practical for anything, you've ****ed your argument.

2.) File paths in Terminal are a) auto-completing via tab, and b) drag-and-drop from Finder. You know, drag-and-drop. But that just FYI, since you've obviously never actually had to *use* the Terminal.

-s*

Edit: Wait. Sorry. I got suckered in. We've had this exact same bullsht argument about fifty times, YEARS ago. In fact, your bull was the reason I (and most others) left MacFixit back in the day. Thalo's deluges were easy to ignore. But your aggressive, ignorant yapping really got old.
Ahhh, the good old days of MacFixit. That place became a cesspool of OSX hatred after the Public Beta
-Toyin
13" MBA 1.8ghz i7
"It's all about the rims that ya got, and the rims that ya coulda had"
S.T. 1995
     
SMacTech
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Jan 19, 2005, 01:42 PM
 
Originally posted by mAxximo:
I'm afraid the minority is you. Newcomers from the Unix/programming geek world are certainly a lot less than the legions of Mac veterans that don't care about NeXT's dreaded Column View or typing the path to a file in the Terminal, and only want the Finder to work as it was meant to be: spatially.
The only problem is most of those clueless newcomers are working at Apple right now. Which explains the current state of things in OS X.
Another minority here. Column view is far superior for the type of file navigation and workflow that I have.

Not everyone is spatially oriented as you are.
     
 
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