[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by freudling 

AKcrab: And have you ever thought that people don't ask you about RAM because they can go on the Internet and look it up? Like, maybe, do some research before they go shopping?

The people buying iPads come in two flavors:
1) Those that know they want one and know all about them.
2) Those that know NOTHING and we have to hold their hand through the sales pitch.

Group 1 may very well have already done their research and may know how much RAM is in it.
Group 2 has NEVER asked me about RAM.

I have evidence from selling iPads for a year that 99% of customers don't CARE how much RAM is in an iPad.

If it helps, I just polled the staff here and not a single person has ever been asked about RAM in the iPad.

[Brien]

Yup. We're a niche. Most people, regardless of age/generation, don't know, nor care, about specs. Heck, 99.99% of people do NOTHING but Facebook and email on their computers as it is.

The fact that we're arguing over whether or not people know what RAM is means we're missing the point.

[freudling]

Ok, sounds great. I've got an idea. Apple should just keep that small list of 'elite tech spec looker uppers', people who think they're the only ones in the world who have an interest in technology and an inclination toward researching their products, and just send out tech specs to people on that list. All tech specs on their site should be taken down within 24 hours because the majority of the population never looks at them.

Why Apple would actually think to put up a tech spec spread with every product's marketing page online doesn't make any sense. What are they thinking? Operating temperature? Dimensions? Weight? Processor speed? Who cares.

Or maybe, people actually do look at those specs and that helps them form their purchasing decision, even if they're not that tech savvy.

[Shaddim]

Apple puts up RAM specs for computers because you need to know that info for certain applications. You don't need that info for appliances that run iOS apps, so they leave it off. And you know, people don't give a s***. Consumers don't care how much RAM is in their PS3 and they don't care how much is in the iPad. Well, except for the top 1% of geeks who wring their hands and worry about this stuff.

[Laminar]

"My position backed with zero data is far superior to your position backed with zero data, and I will agressively and vehemently fight you about it on the internet, all while failing to provide any data or even relevant experience, just rationalizations that only make sense if you've already decided what they should mean."

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Ok, sounds great. I've got an idea. Apple should just keep that small list of 'elite tech spec looker uppers', people who think they're the only ones in the world who have an interest in technology and an inclination toward researching their products, and just send out tech specs to people on that list. All tech specs on their site should be taken down within 24 hours because the majority of the population never looks at them.

Why Apple would actually think to put up a tech spec spread with every product's marketing page online doesn't make any sense. What are they thinking? Operating temperature? Dimensions? Weight? Processor speed? Who cares.

Or maybe, people actually do look at those specs and that helps them form their purchasing decision, even if they're not that tech savvy.

Strawman. No one suggested any such thing.

Your anecdotal evidence is just as flimsy as everybody elses. Here's mine: I talk to and work with college students (you know, that digital generation you spoke of) on a daily basis. 95% of them have no idea what RAM even is, much less how much the device they own has. Some are tech savvy in the same way many on this board are, but they are the exception, not the rule. They only care if it works, if its speedy, and if its stable. So yes, I'd say that people that care about the exact tech specs (most of us being among them) are in the minority. Assuming that the majority believe (and are interested in) the same things as you is a common problem.

Back on topic, this looks like the incremental upgrade that everyone was expecting. I'm anxious to see tablets integrated into society more to reduce the paper clutter that I hate so much.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Why Apple would actually think to put up a tech spec spread with every product's marketing page online doesn't make any sense. What are they thinking? Operating temperature? Dimensions? Weight? Processor speed? Who cares.

Actually, some of those informations are required to be given out by law, especially operating temperature and dimensions.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Actually, some of those informations are required to be given out by law, especially operating temperature and dimensions.

But not RAM? How convenient.

[Laminar]

Excellent post, A+++. Would read again.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by freudling 

But not RAM? How convenient.

Given that RAM is one of the weak points of the first-gen iPad, we can almost be certain the iPad 2 includes 512 MB or more (although I doubt it's actually more).

[The Final Dakar]

[The Final Dakar]

Hands on photos with the iPad 2, reader questions answered

The several Apple reps that we spoke with in the briefing area were not willing to give up details about how much RAM the device has; one representative said that those details "aren't important" and that the company would rather keep that under wraps to focus attention on the new A5 processor instead.

WTF? How could it be that big of a deal? Did they friggen put less in?

[brassplayersrock²]

hmm "that those details "aren't important"

[ort888]

AppleInsider | Apple's A5 CPU in iPad 2 has 512MB of RAM, same as iPhone 4 - report

Unofficially official as 512

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

We sell iPads. Nobody has EVER asked me how much RAM is in one.

I had ONE guy ask, once.

[osiris]

My mother asked me how much RAM the new iPad had once.

Once.

[-Q-]

The 10 we bought for the office, no one who got one asked how much RAM it had.

And based on the speed I've seen in the video reviews, I tend to agree that it doesn't matter. What are you going to do? Pry it open and upgrade it?

[Big Mac]

I don't see why Apple is reluctant to release this part of the specs, but then again they don't talk about on the product pages how much RAM the iPhone has either so there's a pattern of obscuring that detail.

[Spheric Harlot]

The reason Apple doesn't mention it is the exact same reason why the iPad is so successful:

Who. ****ing. Cares.

It's not a computer. Data points are irrelevant, as long as it can hold your media.

Here, there's your photos. Hey, take a look at my daughter on vacation in Yosemite. Lemme just write an e-mail. Check out the new website. Have you seen the new YouTube hit? Can you send me a preview of tomorrow's presentation? How many Gigahertz does the graphics processor have?

One of the above doesn't belong.

Let third party sites tear it apart, but Apple's business is in *not* drawing attention to the technical bullshit. That just intimidates people who'd much rather just be using the damn thing because it does all they need.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The reason Apple doesn't mention it is the exact same reason why the iPad is so successful:

Who. ****ing. Cares.

Bullshit, if nobody cared, they wouldn't be avoiding the subject.

I could give a rat's ass if it's 512 MB or 1 GB. But you have to wonder why Apple is being opaque on the subject. I don't recall the memory on the original iPad being some kind of contentious point (freudling aside).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Bullshit, if nobody cared, they wouldn't be avoiding the subject.

I could give a rat's ass if it's 512 MB or 1 GB. But you have to wonder why Apple is being opaque on the subject.

I just explained to you why Apple is being opaque on the subject.

It's not important.

What's important is YOUR CONTENT and what you do with it.

This has always been the crux of the Apple experience. Technical data are secondary. Bullet points mean nothing. What YOU can, and more importantly, WANT to do with a device defines its capabilities.

In this case, as they're first to define a completely new market, they're doing it on their own terms - what people actually WANT to use.

Their "competitors" - and freudling - are trying traditional arguments, bullet points that were always used as selling points but never actually mattered to users.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I just explained to you why Apple is being opaque on the subject.

It's not important.

That's doublespeak. Apple is opaque where it serves to their benefit. Not out of any romanticized notion of consumer focus.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot;4056734I

n this case, as they're first to define a completely new market, they're doing it on their own terms - what people actually WANT to use.

Oh save me the corporate fellating. Just because Apple is moving a shit-ton of hardware doesn't make the supposed reasoning behind everything they do Holy.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Their "competitors" - and freudling - are trying traditional arguments, bullet points that were always used as selling points but never actually mattered to users.

Great, so what's the harm in telling us?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

That's doublespeak. Apple is opaque where it serves to their benefit. Not out of any romanticized notion of consumer focus.

Newsflash:

Happy customers are to Apple's benefit.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Oh save me the corporate fellating. Just because Apple is moving a shit-ton of hardware doesn't make the supposed reasoning behind everything they do Holy.

They're moving a shit-ton of hardware because they're making customers happy.

They're obviously doing something right, and, having dealt with ordinary customers on a daily basis for over five years (both in sales and tech support), I believe that de-emphasizing the tech details behind the iOS devices is LARGELY responsible for their success.

I'm not fellating corporations; it's Apple that's fellating customers by making the tech irrelevant, and the content all the more directly accessible (it started with iTunes vs. music directories).

The iPad works because the tech becomes completely invisible to the user.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Great, so what's the harm in telling us?

Next time, take your time in reading what I wrote, and what I may have meant.

The harm in harping on about tech details is opening a battlefront NOT ON THEIR OWN TERMS. Apple is about the USER EXPERIENCE. Their detractors (call them "competitors" if you want) have NOTHING except bullet points (webOS excluded - that looks awesome). Make them discussion points, and you open yourself up for attack. (See Google's "open" argument and alternative app stores - hype them up, and fall ever so much harder when it becomes obvious that they're a horror for end users.)

Time will show which presentation of the devices customers actually care about, but right now, the market speaks volumes (literally).

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Newsflash:

Happy customers are to Apple's benefit.

...and releasing the RAM specs will create unhappy customers?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

They're moving a shit-ton of hardware because they're making customers happy.

They're obviously doing something right, and, having dealt with ordinary customers on a daily basis for over five years (both in sales and tech support), I believe that de-emphasizing the tech details behind the iOS devices is LARGELY responsible for their success.

I'm fine with deemphasizing. No one says they have to make the amount of RAM a point of their marketing. What I'm not fine with is outright withholding information. Information is good for the consumer, period.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I'm not fellating corporations; it's Apple that's fellating customers by making the tech irrelevant

OMG, no.
Withholding information is not fellating customers.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The iPad works because the tech becomes completely invisible to the user.

Correlation does not imply causation. As has been pointed out almost endlessly over the years here, most consumers don't know anything about the technical aspects of the computers they're using. The real breakthrough here has been the standardization of the hardware and the curating with the app store.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Next time, take your time in reading what I wrote, and what I may have meant.

The harm in harping on about tech details is opening a battlefront NOT ON THEIR OWN TERMS.

Oh, so it is about Apple's benefit and not ours!

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Apple is about the USER EXPERIENCE. Their detractors (call them "competitors" if you want) have NOTHING except bullet points (webOS excluded - that looks awesome). Make them discussion points, and you open yourself up for attack. (See Google's "open" argument and alternative app stores - hype them up, and fall ever so much harder when it becomes obvious that they're a horror for end users.)

There's a difference between not marketing on bullet points, and outright hiding them. Why are you failing to grasp this point?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Time will show which presentation of the devices customers actually care about, but right now, the market speaks volumes (literally).

Not really. Just because a product sells well doesn't validate every aspect of the product.

---

Sphric, if Apple thinks tech specs are so irrelevant, why do they make it a point to tell us about the new processor (and it's name!), its dual cores and 9x the graphical power?

[Big Mac]

SH, you're acting like one little detail, the amount of RAM, is some really difficult technical detail that will bewilder the masses if it's found on a tech specs page. That's ridiculous. If that were the case, why does Apple find it worthwhile to tell us about the dual core A5 or the new graphics processor? Those are all technical details, much more technical in fact than a simple listing of how much RAM the unit has.

It has nothing to do with simplifying things for the masses. It's all about Apple's marketing team deciding that disclosing that detail won't further the marketing effort like talking about dual core processors and nine times faster graphics will.

[Eug]

Even though I am a geek, I don't really care that much about how much RAM is in the thing either. Well, to be more accurate I don't care that much as long as it's at least 512 MB. 256 MB is too little, but 512 MB will be sufficient for some time. The old iPad was usable but slow. It reminded me of my old iPhone 3G. The new iPad with twice the memory and twice the CPU speed (or more, and much faster gfx speed) should be sufficient.

An iPad with 256 MB is like getting a MacBook with 1 GB. Tolerable, but slow.
An iPad 2 with 512 MB should be like getting a MacBook with 2 GB. Not stellar, but fine for the masses at that price point.

BTW, I would have been absolutely shocked if the iPad 2 had gotten 1 GB. I don't expect that to happen until next year or later.

[ort888]

My big issue with the RAM is how the old iPad needed to constantly reload tabbed web pages. It was a HUGE drawback in my mind.

If 512 if enough to make that not happen then I am happy.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

My big issue with the RAM is how the old iPad needed to constantly reload tabbed web pages. It was a HUGE drawback in my mind.

Yeah, that's the main reason I've heard cited.

[scottiB]

Apple - iPod touch - Technical specifications for iPod touch.
Apple - iPhone 4 - Size, weight, battery life, and other specs

No mention of RAM that I can see.

[ort888]

Can we go back to the 18 SKUs thing for a minute? That still seems crazy to me. Talk about an inventory nightmare.

"Hello, I want an iPad."

"Sure, we have the 32GB White Verizon, the 64GB Black Verizon and the 64GB Black Wifi in stock. Which would you like?"

[Eug]

Well, when the original iPad came out, I thought it was definitely starved for RAM. That, and the commonness of Flash content (as well as the CPU speed) were reasons it didn't bother me at all to skip that iPad generation.

The new iPad 2 is much more compelling. There is still that Flash issue and some of my preferred content is still in Flash, but the support of non-Flash H.264 is happening fairly quickly so the lack of Flash is much less of an annoyance in 2011 than it was in 2010. To put it another way, back in 2010, I used to notice the lack of Flash on my iPhone all the time, and it was quite irritating. In March 2011? Not so much. It's just occasionally now.

The issue you mention about tabbed browsing is noted, but I'm guessing that if you have a few tabs it should be OK now in the new machine since the RAM is doubled... assuming iOS will work that way to support that of course.

[Shaddim]

My wife asked, "We're getting some of those, right?"
I replied, "Yep, they fixed a lot of the s*** that pissed me off."
"Do you care how much RAM they have?", I asked.
"What's RAM? Is that the 64GB?"
"No", I replied.
"Oh, then I don't care. Can we get more than 64GB?"
"No."
Then she pouted. "Can I get a white one with a camera?"
"Yep."
Then she smiled again.

I imagine this is a pretty standard conversation that a techie would have with the average consumer.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by scottiB 

Apple - iPod touch - Technical specifications for iPod touch.
Apple - iPhone 4 - Size, weight, battery life, and other specs

No mention of RAM that I can see.

Or CPU.

Originally Posted by ort888 

Can we go back to the 18 SKUs thing for a minute? That still seems crazy to me. Talk about an inventory nightmare.

"Hello, I want an iPad."

"Sure, we have the 32GB White Verizon, the 64GB Black Verizon and the 64GB Black Wifi in stock. Which would you like?"

I am not surprised Apple's (supposed) reduced SKU philosophy died to move more units.

[Salty]

The reason Apple doesn't give you things like that, is because they prefer to say things like "twice as fast!" It's better marketing, and it makes more sense to my mom.

We bought my mom RAM last year for her birthday, I told her that it would give her fewer beach balls. She liked that idea.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I am not surprised Apple's (supposed) reduced SKU philosophy died to move more units.

Yeah, just how many iPod SKUs are there now?

P.S. If I were to buy an iPad 2, it'd likely be white. No 3G though.

[The Final Dakar]

I will say I expect that they want to combine the AT&T/Verizon SKUs. I'll be surprised if they let that linger.

Though with the implementation of 4G, maybe we can get even more SKUs!

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, just how many iPod SKUs are there now?

18 iPad SKUs. There are 24 if you count the original iPad which is still being sold.

Verizon and AT&T are both using LTE for 4G, so I imagine once that happens it'll be a no-brainer for one model for both carriers (although it should be already with the VZW iPhone 4 having a hybrid GSM/CDMA Qualcomm chipset).

[Brien]

If the rumors on 4.3 not coming to the Verizon iPhone due to there being separate software teams for GSM/CDMA iOS versions is true, then they probably didn't combine the 3G SKUs due to a lack of time.

I mean, if the iPhone 5 is separate GSM/CDMA versions, then we can throw that guess out the window.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

18 iPad SKUs. There are 24 if you count the original iPad which is still being sold.

Verizon and AT&T are both using LTE for 4G, so I imagine once that happens it'll be a no-brainer for one model for both carriers (although it should be already with the VZW iPhone 4 having a hybrid GSM/CDMA Qualcomm chipset).

I was asking about iPod SKUs.

Let's see:

shuffle: 5 colours, one size
nano: 7 colours, two sizes
classic: 2 colours, 1 size
touch: 1 colour, 3 sizes

So, there are at least 24 iPod SKUs... plus the iPhones.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

SH, you're acting like one little detail, the amount of RAM, is some really difficult technical detail that will bewilder the masses if it's found on a tech specs page. That's ridiculous. If that were the case, why does Apple find it worthwhile to tell us about the dual core A5 or the new graphics processor? Those are all technical details, much more technical in fact than a simple listing of how much RAM the unit has.

It has nothing to do with simplifying things for the masses. It's all about Apple's marketing team deciding that disclosing that detail won't further the marketing effort like talking about dual core processors and nine times faster graphics will.

Amen. I'll say it again to everyone arguing in Apple's favour about withholding RAM specs... you're going so far as to say it's good for the consumer. Sorry, that's just ridiculous koolaid drinking dribble. If specs didn't matter, why post ANY specs at all? Like:

Wi-Fi + 3G model: UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

or

1GHz dual-core Apple A5 custom-designed, high-performance, low-power system-on-a-chip

or

Built-in 25-watt-hour rechargeable lithium-polymer battery

RAM is not a complicated spec, especially compared this stuff. And Apple is withholding it. It's all marketing. And why? Because the XOOM, PlayBook, and HP Touch-Pad all have 1 GB RAM, and their likely 512 is half that. And sorry, even if you don't think about RAM much, it IS very important. Steve Jobs admitted in an Email to a customer that the iPhone 3G didn't get multi-tasking features in iOS 4 because it just wasn't fast enough, attributed to not enough RAM and GPU power. RAM is very important with multi-tasking operating systems. Sadly, when iOS 5 rolls around, it's going to run better I am certain with 1 GB, but iPad 2 won't have that. Now next year with iPad 3 Apple will have something to market: double the RAM! Double the fun!

Anyway, no more arguing on this: either they post the tech specs or they don't. Period. They posted them. Therefore, they thought they were important enough for consumers to do that. Therefore, the argument that consumers don't care or that Apple doesn't think tech specs are worth discussing is not valid.

Post the RAM Apple and stop hiding.

[Eug]

Meh. Apple can post whatever they damn well please. It's a marketing page, nothing more.

In this instance I agree with Apple, because Apple's iOS manages memory way better than the competition, so they'd just be doing themselves a disservice by posting the amount of RAM. It's not too sexy to say "We only have 512 MB RAM, but that's OK because we manage the OS's memory use better." In their shoes, I'd also not post the RAM amount.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Amen. I'll say it again to everyone arguing in Apple's favour about withholding RAM specs... you're going so far as to say it's good for the consumer. Sorry, that's just ridiculous koolaid drinking dribble. If specs didn't matter, why post ANY specs at all? Like:

Wi-Fi + 3G model: UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

Because people travel with iPads and would probably like to know where it will work.

1GHz dual-core Apple A5 custom-designed, high-performance, low-power system-on-a-chip

Because Apple is quite proud of their little custom chips, if you haven't noticed.

Built-in 25-watt-hour rechargeable lithium-polymer battery

Because battery size is a spec that is required by law, and is a very useful spec for corporate customers. RAM is only important to developers.

You'd also do well to note that HP never directly said how much RAM the TouchPad has in their keynote, but rather has "Twice the amount" of the Pre 2.

[andi*pandi]

Perhaps there should be a poll to see who cares about RAM. I for one, do not. I will not be running photoshop on this thing.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Perhaps there should be a poll to see who cares about RAM. I for one, do not. I will not be running photoshop on this thing.

Or a poll on whether you think withholding the RAM spec is good for consumers.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

SH, you're acting like one little detail, the amount of RAM, is some really difficult technical detail that will bewilder the masses if it's found on a tech specs page. That's ridiculous.

It's reality.

I know you're never going to believe it, but it's true.

The difference between RAM and storage is *completely* lost on easily 90 percent of my customers. If they have an option on RAM, they'll generally go with whatever the sales guy recommends.

And the other point is that if you put a "512" value there that's completely meaningless to customers, and an "800" number somewhere else, then any consumer who's making an "informed" decision will look at those stupid computers-for-beginners rags and see endless tables of meaningless numbers, and come to the conclusion that competitor's product X is a much better deal because it has a "768" and a "900" there for those values, and is only $30 more.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My wife asked, "We're getting some of those, right?"
I replied, "Yep, they fixed a lot of the s*** that pissed me off."
"Do you care how much RAM they have?", I asked.
"What's RAM? Is that the 64GB?"
"No", I replied.
"Oh, then I don't care. Can we get more than 64GB?"
"No."
Then she pouted. "Can I get a white one with a camera?"
"Yep."
Then she smiled again.

I imagine this is a pretty standard conversation that a techie would have with the average consumer.

Bingo.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Or a poll on whether you think withholding the RAM spec is good for consumers.

I don't think it's good for consumers, but in this case I don't think it's bad for consumers either.

[freudling]

Copy/Paste of web page text removed. There's a reason we let you link.

[imitchellg5]

Wow. Thank you for copying and pasting a webpage that I can visit on my own (and have).

[freudling]

But no RAM! Nice omission. Stop defending Apple already it's embarrassing.

[imitchellg5]

I'm not defending Apple. Apple own the iPad 2 and can tell you whatever the heck they want and leave stuff out at will. It's their call. Not yours.