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neilK · Dec 22, 2004, 06:05 PM

i'm wondering if it's worth my while to upgrade the card in my gigE dual 500. currently running a radeon 8500, considering a 9800. i plan to upgrade the processor eventually. not that it helps with agp 2x or 100MHz bus.

i realize that framerates aren't likely to improve much, if at all, but i'm wondering about the image quality/screen resolution you can get with the 9800's extra features. i'd take a nicer picture at the same framerates any day. would that happen?

MORT A POTTY · Dec 22, 2004, 06:14 PM

it would help out a bit with some things, like it would support Quartz 2D extreme in Tiger.

it really won't boost anything, but you will be able to run at higher resolutions I'd imagine.

I actually just put in a Radeon 9800 Pro today in my Quicksilver and overclocked it above 9800XT specs (I have an ATI Silencer for it, do NOT try it with the standard heatsink/fan) I get higher framerates in games and I have better quality textures and whatnot in games (after I change the settings of course), and higher framerate in iTunes

you won't have as much bandwidth though as you have an AGP 2x slot, but it should give you some improvements.

Skip Breakfast · Dec 22, 2004, 06:25 PM

This thread belongs in PowerMacs. Upgrading is not modding.

neilK · Dec 22, 2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
This thread belongs in PowerMacs. Upgrading is not modding.

yeah, but everybody knows the smartest macnn-ers post in the mod forum

all a&&kissing aside, if i go this route i'm gonna go with a pc card and flash, so i'll need advice there too.

sine -''-..- · Dec 27, 2004, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
This thread belongs in PowerMacs. Upgrading is not modding.

The gods agree!

traktimino · Dec 27, 2004, 03:32 PM

i had a 9800 in my dual 1.2 ghz sawtooth ( now a DA) and it was really great. With the processor you have now you won't get an increase in framerates but you will be able to up the res and use FSAA AF without much of a performance hit. not to mention you will get core image in tiger and better shader performance. You will get the greatest benefits of this card if you get a dual proc upgrade of around 1.2 ghz it will keep the car fed better than the processor you have now. I also recomend flashing one since it is very easy and pc cards are found for cheaper than mac cards. If you need any more information let us know

dfiler · Dec 27, 2004, 04:29 PM

I'm looking at a similar upgrade for my dual 1.4 (originally a dual 450 gigE). Currently I have a radeon 8500 and have been considering a 128mb 9800.

Is a 2x AGP slot compatible with all radeon 9800 (mac edition)?
Or is there some other spec that I need to watch out for?

Macola · Dec 27, 2004, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by dfiler:
I'm looking at a similar upgrade for my dual 1.4 (originally a dual 450 gigE). Currently I have a radeon 8500 and have been considering a 128mb 9800.

I have a Radeon 9000 Pro (128MB) in a similar dual 1.4, running with no probs.

MORT A POTTY · Dec 28, 2004, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by dfiler:
I'm looking at a similar upgrade for my dual 1.4 (originally a dual 450 gigE). Currently I have a radeon 8500 and have been considering a 128mb 9800.

Is a 2x AGP slot compatible with all radeon 9800 (mac edition)?
Or is there some other spec that I need to watch out for?

the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition is an AGP 2x/4x card, BUT, the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition is an 8x AGP ONLY.

dfiler · Dec 28, 2004, 12:32 PM

Exactly the info I was looking for!

I'll be getting a radeon 9800 (non SE) when tiger is near to shipping. Prices should drop rapidly now that the 6800s are everywhere and ATI is promoting their newer faster cards as well... you know, the ones with the 3 digit model numbers. Heck, they couldn't keep raising the model number forever. Otherwise, their next line of cards would be in the tens of thousands.

Although... I wonder what extra features will be available on CI compatible cards. Perhaps a 128mb radeon 9000 would be nearly as good on a computer with a 100mhz bus. With two displays, the 32mb per display from my radeon 8500 is a bit limiting.

neilK · Dec 28, 2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by traktimino:
i had a 9800 in my dual 1.2 ghz sawtooth ( now a DA) and it was really great. With the processor you have now you won't get an increase in framerates but you will be able to up the res and use FSAA AF without much of a performance hit. not to mention you will get core image in tiger and better shader performance. You will get the greatest benefits of this card if you get a dual proc upgrade of around 1.2 ghz it will keep the car fed better than the processor you have now. I also recomend flashing one since it is very easy and pc cards are found for cheaper than mac cards. If you need any more information let us know

great info already... i am doing some reading on the pc cards now, seems that some are more flashable than others. do i want genuine ati or can i use a 'powered by ati' card like sapphire or powercolor?

dfiler · Dec 28, 2004, 05:10 PM

I was under the impression that Radeon 9800 couldn't be flashed from PC to Mac without soldering on a bigger sized ROM. Is this correct?

Currently I'm running a flashed radeon 8500. I seem to remember there being a really REALLY long thread here on flashing radeon 8500s. You'll need to sift through it to find out exactly which versions of the 8500 are best to flash.

traktimino · Dec 28, 2004, 05:10 PM

I would recommend a genuine ATI card (since the Radeon 9800 mac edition pretty much is a genuine ATI card with some slight differences) but any card that follows the standard ATI board layout oughta work fine ( assuming it has all 8 pipes, 256 bit memory bus and the right type of RAM) If I were you I would go with a genuine ATI card to be safe.

dfiler · 05:24 PM

Aha! Here's the link that made me think 9800 flashing would involve soldering...

http://mapage.noos.fr/campahunta/rad...onversion.html

... and another ...

http://www.techseekers.net/modules.p...t&id=72&page=2

[EDIT]

Google has answered most of my quesitons:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-100083

Apparently you can run a 9800 with a reduced ROM and thus bypass the soldering.

christor · 01:29 PM

I have a 2002 quicksilver 733 mhz (special education-only model - got it plus a 17" studio display (apple lcd) for $1200 back in 2002). It has 768mb ram and an ati radeon 7000 (32mb). I've been thinking about upgrading to the radeon 9200 mac edition. Seems to be going for around $125. The thing is that I don't need dual display support - so I'm not sure if I really need this card. I'm hoping to buy a card in this price range to give better performance in a few games (like simcity4) and to enjoy better graphics/effects, coreimage, etc. Will any card in this price range make a noticeable difference from the 7000? I believe I have a 4xagp slot - does this change the picture - ie should I get the 9000 pro?

Any advice?

Luca Rescigno · Jan 4, 2005, 01:31 PM

Don't get a Radeon 9200. I've lost count of the number of people asking about getting this graphics card in their AGP PowerMacs. It is a PCI video card, which means that although it'll work in your PowerMac, it won't be fast.

Also, I doubt you have a Radeon 7000 in your PowerMac. It's probably a Radeon 7500, which isn't that great but it's not bad either. Quite a rare video card, not many Mac versions were ever made. It'll probably fetch a very nice price on eBay.

Anyway, since you need ADC for your display, that does restrict which video cards you can get. First of all, that PCI Radeon 9200 will not work at all because not only is it PCI (meaning it'll be really slow), but it doesn't have an ADC port. Another option is the Radeon 9000. Now that one does have ADC, and it is an AGP video card. However, it's not going to be a whole lot faster than your 7500, so I don't think it would be worth an upgrade. Finally, you have the GeForce 4 Titanium. This is definitely the best option as it's both fast and it has an ADC port. Look for a Mac version of that card on eBay - they're somewhat rare but they do show up fairly often. Expect to pay around $200 for it.

Finally, nearly every video card you can buy today is dual-monitor capable. So don't feel like you're paying extra for a feature you'll never use.

christor · Jan 4, 2005, 01:40 PM

Thanks a lot for the help! I think that I really do have a radeon 7000. See here, but your point is well-taken regardless that the 9000 (agreed that the 9200 pci would be a waste) might not be much of a jump. I'll take a look at the geforce4ti - sounds like that might be the way to go if I can find a good price. Thanks again for your help - exactly what I needed.

MORT A POTTY · Jan 4, 2005, 03:15 PM

Radeon 980 doesn't have an ADC port. the 9600Pro does, but it doesn't work in a G4, the 900 Pro works, but the card is pretty crappy. you could get an ADC to DVI adapter. they are kinda pricey, but you can then use it on a DVI port.

or, the displays were dropped in price today. with an edu discount the 20" is 900 bucks.

Luca Rescigno · Jan 4, 2005, 04:55 PM

Low End Mac's information there is incorrect. Apple has never shipped the Radeon 7000 in any of their systems, desktop or portable. Their own specifications confirm it.

Anyway, MORT A POTTY is correct in saying that none of the other higher-end cards (i.e. ones that would be a significant upgrade to what you have now) have ADC. So the GeForce 4 Titanium is the way to go. I don't think you're looking forward to paying $100 extra to use your current display, nor do you want to ditch your current LCD for a DVI one. Just a guess

.

Cadaver · Jan 4, 2005, 05:11 PM

I do not believe the nvidia GeForce 3 or 4Ti cards run correctly in the 2x AGP slot the original poster mentioned his computer has.

His only real choice if "full" Tiger support is desired is the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition (I wont comment on flashed PC versions).

MORT A POTTY · Jan 4, 2005, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:
I do not believe the nvidia GeForce 3 or 4Ti cards run correctly in the 2x AGP slot the original poster mentioned his computer has.

His only real choice if "full" Tiger support is desired is the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition (I wont comment on flashed PC versions).

I also think the first statement is true, but again, I would not say for sure because I very well could be wrong on this one.

the second statemtn I agree with 100%. I honestly think the 9800 Pro is your best bet for upgrading (with an adapter to use an ADC monitor in the DVI port) it's way more future proof and is the fastest 2x/4x AGP card the Mac is likely to EVER have. you can overclock it considerably too, provided you have either a VGA Silencer or an ATi Silcencer 1 (which I'd definitely recommend the latter as opposed to the former) and that can be had for $25-$30 at www.newegg.com and will take an adjacent PCI slot, but I tell you this, it's well worth it. it blows the heat straight out of the case instead of swirling it around in the case, and it's a LOT quieter and provides significantly better cooling. it's very easyt o install too.

Luca Rescigno · Jan 4, 2005, 06:32 PM

Cadaver, I think you're right. However, I was actually responding to christor, who asked a similar question partway through the thread regarding his Quicksilver.