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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > ThinkSecret: Tiger 10.4 to be released on April Fools' Day?

ThinkSecret: Tiger 10.4 to be released on April Fools' Day? (Page 4)
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osxisfun
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Apr 1, 2005, 12:10 PM
 
arg. monday instead?
     
Grrr
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Apr 1, 2005, 12:13 PM
 
Are you excited by any chance, Mr Wanker?
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Eug Wanker  (op)
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Apr 1, 2005, 12:16 PM
 
Originally posted by Grrr:
Are you excited by any chance, Mr Wanker?
Isn't a wanker by definition excited?

Anyways, if you're asking a serious question... I'm most interested in the lifting of the NDA when Tiger gets released. Tiger seems to have some very cool technology under the hood.
     
Abit667
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Apr 1, 2005, 12:42 PM
 
Originally posted by osxisfun:
arg. monday instead?
That would blow.
     
osxisfun
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Apr 1, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Its 15 mins. to 9 west coast time...

we might know soon.
     
Grrr
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Apr 1, 2005, 01:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Isn't a wanker by definition excited?

Anyways, if you're asking a serious question... I'm most interested in the lifting of the NDA when Tiger gets released. Tiger seems to have some very cool technology under the hood.
Now theres a good point! I confess, Im itching to get my mitts on it also..

'osxisfun' on the other hand definitely needs a cold shower. Yer gonna have to wait a week or 3 yet! Whatever happens..
The worst thing about having a failing memory is..... no, it's gone.
     
osxisfun
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Apr 1, 2005, 01:09 PM
 
Originally posted by Grrr:
Now theres a good point! I confess, Im itching to get my mitts on it also..

'osxisfun' on the other hand definitely needs a cold shower. Yer gonna have to wait a week or 3 yet! Whatever happens..


Acutally i am 90% sure i am picking up a powerbook and if i buy it before 4/5 and I can get it for $150 off. So.....basically all i hope is apple annouces before 4/5 so i can save a few bucks, get tiger free, and spend the $ on mem!

So i don't want tiger. I just want apple to announce tiger
     
lookmark
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Apr 1, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
Not to be crude, but -- if April 1st was ever a real announce date -- I suspect the situation with the Pope may have well bumped the announcement to Mon/Tues.
     
Abit667
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Apr 1, 2005, 01:51 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
Not to be crude, but -- if April 1st was ever a real announce date -- I suspect the situation with the Pope may have well bumped the announcement to Mon/Tues.
Yeah, for whatever reason they have it will probably be monday/tuesday now. I'm totally dieing to get it.
     
bbales
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Apr 1, 2005, 02:33 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:
Not to be crude, but -- if April 1st was ever a real announce date -- I suspect the situation with the Pope may have well bumped the announcement to Mon/Tues.

And here I was congratulating myself on checking on the Pope's situation BEFORE checking on Tiger...

But you might well be right.
     
wtmcgee
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Apr 1, 2005, 02:42 PM
 
The pope? I highly doubt that's the reason Tiger wasn't announced today.
     
Garage81
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Apr 1, 2005, 03:06 PM
 
bah, i have to wait through the weekend now?

Mac Mini : 1.66 Core Duo : 2 GB ♥
     
piracy
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:02 PM
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee:
The pope? I highly doubt that's the reason Tiger wasn't announced today.
Then you'd be highly wrong.
     
Simon
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:18 PM
 
Originally posted by piracy:
Then you'd be highly wrong.
Ah baloney. What the heck should the pope have to do with Tiger? Since when does Steve care about catholicism?
     
fisherKing
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:28 PM
 
i was trying to be funny in my post this morning, but it's 325pm EST, and the apple site really is down...maybe this is it after all!
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
velocitychannel
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:31 PM
 
Originally posted by fisherKing:
i was trying to be funny in my post this morning, but it's 325pm EST, and the apple site really is down...maybe this is it after all!
It's up here at 3:30 PM and no sign of Tiger on the site. Oh well, I never listen to rumors. That way I will never be disappointed.
     
Chuckit
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:33 PM
 
Apple site is up, and no Tiger update in sight.

And I have learned better than to argue with piracy about OS releases. Sometimes I wonder if that guy is Steve Jobs in disguise.
Chuck
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Eug Wanker  (op)
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
And I have learned better than to argue with piracy about OS releases.
Same.

Originally posted by velocitychannel:
It's up here at 3:30 PM and no sign of Tiger on the site. Oh well, I never listen to rumors. That way I will never be disappointed.
So why are you here then?
     
fisherKing
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:40 PM
 
Originally posted by fisherKing:
i was trying to be funny in my post this morning, but it's 325pm EST, and the apple site really is down...maybe this is it after all!


oops! april fool's....
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
wtmcgee
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:43 PM
 
Originally posted by piracy:
Then you'd be highly wrong.
He's not even dead yet. I of course have no 'inside scoop', but something tells me that Apple's lack of an announcement regarding Tiger (and the subsequent media blitz sure to follow) has nothing to do with the sick pope.

Now, if you for some reason have said 'inside scoop', I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, your statement holds no more water than mine.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 04:53 PM
 
I suspect the big issue here is not just that Apple is afraid of being upstaged by the Pope's probable demise ( which is a concern in terms of being covered by Mass Media outside the technology sections) but is very afraid of being upstaged by the imminent release of 10.3.9

On which point i note

1) This may be the first time they release, or announce, a major point(.x) release before finishing the point point(.x.y) release fixes for the previous point release

2) Isn't that utter bollocks? I'd prefer to wait 6 months for a 10.4 that will only update twice. Once to fix the few bugs they don't know about on release, or the few they do know about but are not so concerned about. Then a 10.4.2 to fix the very small number of bugs introduced in 10.4.1

Are we to believe that there are people in Apple finished with 10.4 but still writing code for 10.3?
     
osxisfun
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Apr 1, 2005, 05:02 PM
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee:
He's not even dead yet. I of course have no 'inside scoop', but something tells me that Apple's lack of an announcement regarding Tiger (and the subsequent media blitz sure to follow) has nothing to do with the sick pope.

Now, if you for some reason have said 'inside scoop', I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, your statement holds no more water than mine.
I think he meant it was something other than the pope causing the delay.

if they found a last minute show stopper that would explain things too....
     
dfiler
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Apr 1, 2005, 05:27 PM
 
I think that it's most likely that they're still working out the timing of exactly when they can have the discs pressed, documentation printed, and distribution complete. If tiger truly has gone GM, then april 1st was simply a guess as to when they'd be sure of how soon they can get the boxes to retail outlets.
     
cpac
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Apr 1, 2005, 06:06 PM
 
Originally posted by asdasd:
but is very afraid of being upstaged by the imminent release of 10.3.9
What the? Why would that be the case? 10.3.9 is not going to come with any fanfare or anything - it will simply squash a minor bug or two. It has *no* potential to upstage Tiger's release.


On which point i note

1) This may be the first time they release, or announce, a major point(.x) release before finishing the point point(.x.y) release fixes for the previous point release
I'm not sure that's completely correct (weren't there point releases to 10.1 or 10.2 after the subsequent major release occurred?) I know there were at lease minor security/airport/other minor type releases that did not get their own 10.x.x number...


2) Isn't that utter bollocks? I'd prefer to wait 6 months for a 10.4 that will only update twice. Once to fix the few bugs they don't know about on release, or the few they do know about but are not so concerned about. Then a 10.4.2 to fix the very small number of bugs introduced in 10.4.1
Not at all. Aside from the pointlessness of waiting an extra six months to squash bugs that will only affect a handful of users, Apple as a business needs to meet its self-imposed deadlines (i.e. 1H2005). While they certainly have some time before that comes, it's only a month or two, and if things are ready, they might as well ship it.

This is especially true if other software they plan to announce (Final Cut updates and the like) require Tiger. Since NAB is coming up in about the time frame we could expect Tiger to ship, it's at least reasonable to speculate that some software product they are going to release then would require Tiger, and it wouldn't be worth holding up not just Tiger's release, but the other software as well, for a few minor bugs. This is even more the case if there's new hardware coming which may depend on Tiger.

Finally, just from a practical point of view, there are many bugs which will quickly be found by a large installing base that could otherwise take Apple years of testing to track down. It is just in the nature of software these days that releases will never be perfect and thus, you need to strike some balance between release date and product readiness.

Are we to believe that there are people in Apple finished with 10.4 but still writing code for 10.3?
That's just ridiculous. Nobody has "finished" writing 10.4. They've brought it to it's initial release. People will continue writing 10.4 for the next few years (Steve said major updates would slow from one a year or so to about one every two years) until after 10.5 is announced, and yes, probably even after its release.

Writing software is a process that does not have an inherent "end" but which evolves until such point as further development is not warranted. Each point release 10.1, 10.2. etc. is merely an artificially given stopping point made when somebody judges the release to be ready for public consumption. The same is true of 10.2.x, etc. Sometimes that judgment is sorely wrong (e.g. 10.2.7), but if the judgment is never made, the product becomes vaporware. 10.0 was a lousy release, but it was critical that it was released at all, as if Apple had waited another year for the code to reach the 10.1 stage, developers would have been even slower to port, etc.

In short, get over it.
cpac
     
lookmark
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Apr 1, 2005, 06:08 PM
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee:
He's not even dead yet. I of course have no 'inside scoop', but something tells me that Apple's lack of an announcement regarding Tiger (and the subsequent media blitz sure to follow) has nothing to do with the sick pope.


Let's just say the death of a Pope is not exactly a slow news day.
     
kcmac
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Apr 1, 2005, 06:26 PM
 
Originally posted by lookmark:


Let's just say the death of a Pope is not exactly a slow news day.
And don't forget Sin City opens today at a theatre near you.

I still have hope for today. Was looking forward to some fun with Tiger this weekend.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 06:49 PM
 
"That's just ridiculous. Nobody has "finished" writing 10.4."

People in Apple have stopped writing code for 10.4 if it has been declared GM, or even - for most of them - before it. Unfortunately some of them seem to still have to work on 10.3.9 - a situation which has not happened before despite your pont. The point point releases have been closed down. I think there is not excuse for 9 point point releases, and I imagine Apple will not want to repeat the process.

i suspect however that 10.3.9 will be announced, quitely, on the same day as Tiger.

"What the? Why would that be the case? 10.3.9 is not going to come with any fanfare or anything - it will simply squash a minor bug or two. It has *no* potential to upstage Tiger's release."

We need a sarcasm tag. I was joking.
     
cpac
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Apr 1, 2005, 07:30 PM
 
Originally posted by asdasd:
People in Apple have stopped writing code for 10.4 if it has been declared GM, or even - for most of them - before it. Unfortunately some of them seem to still have to work on 10.3.9 - a situation which has not happened before despite your pont. The point point releases have been closed down. I think there is not excuse for 9 point point releases, and I imagine Apple will not want to repeat the process.
No, it just means those people who are continually writing code are writing code that will be included in a point release - 10.4.1 or whatever.

While I understand your point - that "needing" 9 "point point" releases seems a bit much, consider the alternatives:

(1) Apple doesn't release 10.3 *at all* until now.
or
(2) Apple waited, collected all the fixes in 10.3.1 through 10.3.5 and released them collectively as 10.3.1, then collects all the fixes included in 10.3.6 through 10.3.9 and releases them as 10.3.2.
or
(3) some other frequency set of collecting fixes/releasing them.

These alternatives are stupid or at least no better than the alternative actually adopted. For one thing, collecting fixes delays getting certain fixes to people who could use them. In major releases, this delays major feature boosts for the sake of a few minor bugs.

MOREOVER

(1) Fixes can't be made if bugs aren't discovered, and they are not discovered nearly as fast when a release isn't public.

(2) YOU are free to adopt the system you advocate: If you really would prefer that Apple take some extra time and not release 10.4 until they have squashed the bugs that will be squashed after a couple point releases, you have the very simple solution of NOT INSTALLING 10.4 UNTIL 10.4.2 (or whatever you deem sufficient) IS RELEASED.
cpac
     
Person Man
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Apr 1, 2005, 08:09 PM
 
Originally posted by wtmcgee:
He's not even dead yet. I of course have no 'inside scoop', but something tells me that Apple's lack of an announcement regarding Tiger (and the subsequent media blitz sure to follow) has nothing to do with the sick pope.
If piracy says that it's because of the Pope being sick, then it's because the Pope is sick. His word is good enough for me.
     
ManOfSteal
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Apr 1, 2005, 08:10 PM
 
Originally posted by Person Man:
If piracy says that it's because of the Pope being sick, then it's because the Pope is sick. His word is good enough for me.
Agreed.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 08:45 PM
 
"No, it just means those people who are continually writing code are writing code that will be included in a point release - 10.4.1 or whatever."

no they stop writing code, or flash out features for 10.5,or go on vacation. The bug fixes needed for 10.4.1 have not been decided yet. You sorta pointed that put later when you suggest that 10.x.1 released tend to be quick turnarounds for serious bugs, but they would not release now with those bugs if they knew about them.

"1) Apple doesn't release 10.3 *at all* until now.
or
(2) Apple waited, collected all the fixes in 10.3.1 through 10.3.5 and released them collectively as 10.3.1, then collects all the fixes included in 10.3.6 through 10.3.9 and releases them as 10.3.2.
or
(3) some other frequency set of collecting fixes/releasing them.
"

I am not saying that we need a 10.3.9. i am happy with 10.3.7 and was happy enough with 10.3.4. I tend to install 2 updates per cycle.

my point is they release too early, and then release too often, and test point point updates too little. I am sure that internal management is not happy with the need for a 10.3.9 either - in any case these point point releases are a drain on resources and people's time - which could be spent soley on the next full upgrade.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 08:47 PM
 
"2) YOU are free to adopt the system you advocate: If you really would prefer that Apple take some extra time and not release 10.4 until they have squashed the bugs that will be squashed after a couple point releases, you have the very simple solution of NOT INSTALLING 10.4 UNTIL 10.4.2 (or whatever you deem sufficient) IS RELEASE"

Yes I Agree. And I do do that. I suppose since a lot of you are happy with the 10.x.0 releases then Apple is merely responding to market demand. I still say they should test the point point releases better however.
     
mattsgotredhair
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Apr 1, 2005, 08:49 PM
 
Originally posted by kcmac:
I still have hope for today. Was looking forward to some fun with Tiger this weekend.
Even if the announcement was today, I would almost guarantee (in fact I will guarantee) that you would not have Tiger this weekend.

And I guess it's not being released today since its almost 7 o'clock here in Illinois.
maybe you've been brainwashed too.
     
kcmac
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Apr 1, 2005, 09:12 PM
 
Originally posted by asdasd:
"2) YOU are free to adopt the system you advocate: If you really would prefer that Apple take some extra time and not release 10.4 until they have squashed the bugs that will be squashed after a couple point releases, you have the very simple solution of NOT INSTALLING 10.4 UNTIL 10.4.2 (or whatever you deem sufficient) IS RELEASE"

Yes I Agree. And I do do that. I suppose since a lot of you are happy with the 10.x.0 releases then Apple is merely responding to market demand. I still say they should test the point point releases better however.
You've now steered this thread and a thread at AI well off course with this endless and nonsensical banter. Give it a rest and stay on topic. You can start your own thread, ya know, if ya feels so inspired.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 09:22 PM
 
"You've now steered this thread and a thread at AI well off course with this endless and nonsensical banter. Give it a rest and stay on topic. You can start your own thread, ya know, if ya feels so inspired"

shag off. This thread ia bout the release of Tiger. it has gone to 4 pages with people saying 'It will be released" or ' no it wont". Well. clearly - to add to the excitement - it has gone Gold ( in my opinion) at Cuprtino. It was never likely to be "released" today.

Not sure that a discussion about something like this can go "off topic" by discussing the pro's of the actual release dates, and Apple's numbering systems.

But you may be right, so I will move along and you all can discuss whether it has gone gold or not until Monday ( or maybe. Shock! Tuesday) until you know for sure. Then the thread dies.
     
jamil5454
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Apr 1, 2005, 09:28 PM
 
Apple would be disrespected by many Christians to release Tiger on the day that the Pope's health sharply declines. After reading a few articles on the Pope's situation, I understood that he would likely pass away in 24-48 hours.

Frankly, I want to see Tiger announced today, regardless of the Pope. He is just another human like you and me. But on the other hand, people worship him like a god and I think Apple is playing it smart to keep Tiger back until after the weekend.
     
asdasd
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Apr 1, 2005, 09:45 PM
 
"Frankly, I want to see Tiger announced today, regardless of the Pope. He is just another human like you and me. But on the other hand, people worship him like a god and I think Apple is playing it smart to keep Tiger back until after the weekend."

It may not be respect but Marketing. The death of a Pope will remove all mention of Tiger from the front pages of any serious newspaper, and possibly the Sunday editions and magazines. A lot of articles may be bumped this weekend.
     
memory-minus
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Apr 1, 2005, 10:27 PM
 
Originally posted by jamil5454:
Apple would be disrespected by many Christians to release Tiger on the day that the Pope's health sharply declines. After reading a few articles on the Pope's situation, I understood that he would likely pass away in 24-48 hours.

Frankly, I want to see Tiger announced today, regardless of the Pope. He is just another human like you and me. But on the other hand, people worship him like a god and I think Apple is playing it smart to keep Tiger back until after the weekend.
The... pope... is... Catholic... and only Catholics really care. Where I come from (the south) christians hate catholics. Personally I think he's a sweetheart.

No real Christian would hate anyone. No real Christian would publicly demean another person like this. Any real Christian would mourn the loss of any person. Being from the south myself, and having grown up in a religious/spiritual household, your comments are uncalled for in the Mac OS forum.

Please refrain from making blatantly rude and inappropriate posts like this. What Would Jesus Do?


inserted by Detrius
( Last edited by Detrius; Apr 3, 2005 at 03:27 AM. )
     
Grrr
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Apr 1, 2005, 10:37 PM
 
Originally posted by Person Man:
If piracy says that it's because of the Pope being sick, then it's because the Pope is sick. His word is good enough for me.
lol
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Eug Wanker  (op)
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Apr 1, 2005, 10:48 PM
 
Originally posted by memory-minus:
Personally I think he's a douche.
Reported.
     
Chuckit
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Apr 1, 2005, 11:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Grrr:
lol
I don't think Person Man was joking. Several of us (including me) have said the same thing: piracy knows what he's talking about. Go back and read the posts right before every other release. You'll see a pattern.
Chuck
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wtmcgee
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Apr 1, 2005, 11:10 PM
 
I think it has more to do with the fact that it was never scheduled to be announced today, april 1 was just a 'target' date, but it's silly to announce a product launch as big as tiger on a friday and then let the press simply forget about it over the weekend. Announcing something like this one a Monday or Tuesday makes more sense, as it will get more press and momentum as the week goes on. I still think we'll see an announcement within the next week, with Tiger being in our hands by the last week of April.

Blaming this on the Pope is rather silly, IMO. If he had died, maybe. But he has not, and what happens if he's still in bad shape but alive come Monday, or midweek next week? Would Apple postpone the announcement as long as it took? Doubtful. The whole thing is speculation, though, so it's really silly to argue.
     
Grrr
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Apr 1, 2005, 11:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
I don't think Person Man was joking. Several of us (including me) have said the same thing: piracy knows what he's talking about. Go back and read the posts right before every other release. You'll see a pattern.
I wasn't doubting his credibility when it comes to Apple OS releases.. In fact there is a post by me in the other thread already acknowledging that.
Just the fact you guys lapped up the pope thing that had me tickled.
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Chuckit
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Apr 1, 2005, 11:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Grrr:
I wasn't doubting his credibility when it comes to Apple OS releases.. In fact there is a post by me in the other thread already acknowledging that.
Just the fact you guys lapped up the pope thing that had me tickled.
Well, the Pope thing was about an OS release, so I'm not sure why. This certainly seems in line with his mysterious knowledge of everything related to OS releases.
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Apr 1, 2005, 11:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Reported.
Reported? For expressing an opinion? Yeesh...a little closed-minded, aren't we?
"Yields a falsehood when preceded by its quotation" yields a falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Apr 2, 2005, 12:00 AM
 
Originally posted by Oneota:
Reported? For expressing an opinion? Yeesh...a little closed-minded, aren't we?
Errr... I'm not religious, but this is not the religion forum. Personal attacks on the Pope are definitely not called for in a Mac OS X Tiger thread.

[/armchair mod]
     
Eug Wanker  (op)
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Apr 2, 2005, 01:03 AM
 
From the April 1 ADC newsletter:
Apple Developer Presentation at NAB 2005

Apple is inviting select members of the video and film developer community to join us for a special presentation on how to fully leverage Mac OS X "Tiger" and Apples hardware product line, and better integrate with Apple's professional applications.

Space is limited for this exclusive, invitation-only event.
Please RSVP by registering no later than April 15th, 2005
OMG Quad Macs!
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Apr 2, 2005 at 01:46 AM. )
     
Dumbo
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Apr 2, 2005, 02:34 AM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Errr... I'm not religious, but this is not the religion forum. Personal attacks on the Pope are definitely not called for in a Mac OS X Tiger thread.
Truely living up to his name.

Wanker, you are one hell of a tight bellybutton. You might want to lay off the overzealous geekness and go outside and talk to a girl or something. ....


Wanker is right. Personal attacks on anyone are not called for anywhere on this board. This includes this post. Detrius
( Last edited by Detrius; Apr 3, 2005 at 03:45 AM. )
     
orangep0ny
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Apr 2, 2005, 04:06 AM
 
I agree with wanker, for someone to come in here and say they are from the south and say tha christians hate catholics which they do not, is very 1840ish and immature of a person. Get with the times people and stop being biggitory racist religionists losers that pollute the earth.
     
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Apr 2, 2005, 04:44 AM
 
Originally posted by Grrr:
I wasn't doubting his credibility when it comes to Apple OS releases..
In light of piracy's track record with OS releases, why should we doubt it when he says Apple delayed their announcement because the Pope was sick? He never posts anything unless he means it.

We will probably never know the truth. Did Apple really plan to announce Tiger's pending release on April 1? Did they put off the announcement because the Pope is sick? Most of the posts on the issue are just pointless speculation. I have never seen piracy engage in pointless speculation. He most definitely would not have said what he did if it weren't true, otherwise he wouldn't have involved himself in this matter.
     
 
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