[ctt1wbw]

So let me get this straight. It's okay for Muslims to name thieir kids Mohommed, Muhammed, or whatever. That's okay. But a non-Muslim lets Muslims kids name a teddy bear after this loser and all the "peace loving" Muslims want her executed?

Huh? Am I missing something? I thought Islam was a religion of peace, so why do they want this British teacher executed? I am a Christian, but I am not screaming for the execution of anyone, let alone a person named "Christian" or "Jesus".

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Huh? Am I missing something? I thought Islam was a religion of peace, so why do they want this British teacher executed? I am a Christian, but I am not screaming for the execution of anyone, let alone a person named "Christian" or "Jesus".

a religion is only as good as the people who practice it. that holds true for any religion, and unfortunately those people who use their religion for things other than support, faith, and strength usually take the rest down with it.

but i'm confused by your question. you point out that muslims don't seem to care about people being named 'muhammed.' then you say you're not upset about people named 'christ' or 'jesus.' where's the contrast?

how would you feel if kids were naming their stuffed animals after your god? i do think this whole thing is pretty dumb though.

[peeb]

I think this says more about rural Sudanese culture than it does about Islam. Think about some parts of rural America, and I think you'll be able to think of fairly trivial things that could get you lynched.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by black bear theory 

how would you feel if kids were naming their stuffed animals after your god?

"Mohammed" is not their god.

[black bear theory]

Ibrahim Mogra, chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain's interfaith relations committee and an imam in Leicester, says the name should be reserved for boys. "Some of us believe we are assured of heaven if we name our children Muhammad."

But he says it's ridiculous that Ms Gibbons is being punished for a "miscalculation".

Gillian Gibbons asked her class to name the bear
"If someone clearly intends to insult and cause offence with a toy in the form of a pig, for example, and someone knowingly and intentionally names it Muhammad, we know exactly where they're going with it - the idea is to cause offence. If it's just a miscalculation, we don't need to go overboard."

Dilwar Hussain, of the Islamic Foundation, has no problem with a teddy bear called Muhammad. For some years, the Islamic Society sold a soft toy made for British Muslim children named Adam the Prayer Bear. "Adam is also the name of a Prophet."

Would it be acceptable to give a religious name to a pet? In much of the Muslim world, he says, animals are seen as functional and so are rarely given names.

Idolatry

But Adel Darwish, the political editor of The Middle East magazine, says that Muslim children - "like children everywhere" - give their pets the names of characters they liked, be it a religious figure, sports hero or pop singer.

"Millions of Muslim children in Muslim nations give their dolls, pets and teddies Muslim names of the Prophet and his mother, daughters and wives."

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | What can't be named Muhammad?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by peeb 

I think this says more about rural Sudanese culture than it does about Islam.

Rural? This is in the capital.

[Doofy]

So I'm guessing my idea for a stuffed toy - "Mohammed The Christmas Pig" - won't be selling too well in the ME and North Africa then?

Named after Mohammed Al Fayed, obviously - not some ancient nasty dude.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

"Mohammed" is not their god.

never said he was

[Chongo]

The depiction of Mohamed is "forbidden", yet there are mosques all over the middle east with just that, depictions of the prohet
Mohammed Image Archive

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

"Mohammed" is not their god.

Originally Posted by black bear theory 

never said he was

There is debate whether Allah is the God of Abraham as well.

[peeb]

Of course Allah is the God of Abraham / Ibrahim. Dude is a Muslim prophet.

[BadKosh]

Isn't "Muslim Prophet" an oxymoron?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

So let me see if I have this right- the KIDS named the bear, not the teacher. The teacher merely "allowed" the kids to name a stuffed animal whatever the heck they wanted to name it, and probably didn't think it was any big deal, because she's probably not a Muslim.

Was the teacher there to teach the kids their own religion? Is she an expert on Islam, and educating the kids about Islamic practice the reason she was there, or is she teaching them subjects like math, reading, writing, whatever?

Putting the uncivilized nature of the entire subject aside for a moment, and going by the barbaric notion of punishing people for naming a freakin' object: if the foreign teacher is not a religious expert whose job was to teach kids their own religion, why the hell would she be held to task for something the kids did, not her, especially if there was no expectation of her to be a religious teacher? Why do you need a foreign teacher for that?

Wouldn't it have been SOMEONE ELSE'S responsibility to have taught the kids about their own religion, and what you can and can't name Mohammad, if that's so damned important to a backward culture that emphasizes such things?

[Atomic Rooster]

I think Satan would have been k00L name. And as PacHead would have said...make him a nice little pig skin jacket.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Isn't "Muslim Prophet" an oxymoron?

Why?

[tie]

It blows my mind that a country that commits genocide would dare to imprison someone because of her teddy bear's name. Is Islam a religion of peace or not?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by tie 

Is Islam a religion of peace or not?

Far be it from me to defend Islam but the question is pretty silly.

It's not as if ALL muslims are in total agreement about how Islam is to be practiced and interpreted.

It's not fair to call it the religion of peace OR the religion of violence or whatever. It, like any other religion, is subject to interpretation just like any other.

I do think that Islam, much like Judaism and Hinduism, is a religion/culture and it is becoming more and more evident that there are serious problems on a cultural level. I also think that their culture and their religion have no place within modern society. Seems like that would only exacerbate things even more.

[red rocket]

I really loved that bit where the guy from the Sudanese embassy said that, in their culture, a teddy bear was a wild and dangerous animal.

Pussies.

[BadKosh]

Has there been a voice of moderation coming from the middle east, other than a few exiled folk?

Incidents like the judgment against the victim of the forcible rape by 6 muslim 'men' where SHE gets the 60 lashes, and we hear nothing of the muslim rapists punishment, and now the teacher gets jail time doesn't really speak highly of muslim 'law' or justice.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

You obviously didn't read the articles about the situation; they all seemed to note that her attackers did get jail time, because their jail time was raised along with her punishment. Her rapists got 2 to 9 years – I don't know what the Saudi appeals process/parole system is like, but if they all serve full term I would consider that a punishment mildly consistent with Western law.

I think her punishment was raised to something like 200 lashes and 6 months in jail though...the official explanation was that she was sleeping with one of the men. In any case, that's pretty insane. 200 lashes? I don't know what their lashing is like, but I can't imagine her back will look too good after that....

greg

[PaperNotes]

Alien invader "I come in peace"

Dolph Lundgren "And you're going in pieces."

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I think her punishment was raised to something like 200 lashes and 6 months in jail though...the official explanation was that she was sleeping with one of the men. In any case, that's pretty insane. 200 lashes? I don't know what their lashing is like, but I can't imagine her back will look too good after that....

I heard it was actually because it is illegal for a woman to be alone with a man who is not her husband or a relative and she was alone with this guy.

The lashing is done in public and the "lasher" holds a copy of the Koran under his swinging arm so he is not able to swing TOO hard.

That's how I understand it.

[dcmacdaddy]

There is no religion of peace. There are people who use Islam for good, there are people who use Islam for evil. There are people who use Christianity for good, there are people who use Christianity for evil. There are people who use Judaism for good, there are people who use Judaism for evil.

Every major organized religion has a history of violence and oppression of others who ran afoul of their belief system. Religion is like any other human creation in that it can be used for a variety of purposes, sometimes beneficial to humanity as a whole sometimes detrimental to humanity as a whole. Religions are inherently flawed because the people who develop and practice them are inherently flawed.

[peeb]

dcmacdaddy is on the money this time.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I heard it was actually because it is illegal for a woman to be alone with a man who is not her husband or a relative and she was alone with this guy.

The lashing is done in public and the "lasher" holds a copy of the Koran under his swinging arm so he is not able to swing TOO hard.

That's how I understand it.

Yeah, that's how they explained the original sentence (I think 90 lashes?); when they doubled the sentence recently, they gave the excuse that she was sleeping with the guy as well. I think there was some controversy over the evidence for that point, but this is just from an article I read so I dunno.

Crazy stuff.

greg

[Chongo]

Once she has been whipped, her father will most likely kill her to save the family's honor.

[vexborg]

If Gordon Brown had some balls he would pull out the British foreign aid to Sudan - it wasn't the fault of the teacher, she was there to help them be educated so that they could build a somewhat better future for the country.

And what kind of thank does she get? 15 days in prison, with treats of being shoot / executed...

If the aid workers were pulled out and the aid stopped, hopefully that'll teach them...

Bloody idiots!

[OldManMac]

She's been freed and is returning to Britain today. The Sudanese President pardoned her.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/wo...ss&oref=slogin

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Well, gee. I'm so glad there was nothing more important going on in the Sudan than some kids' naming of a teddy bear. Nice that it's so wonderful there, that this is the kind of thing brewing international scandals, fear of political isolation, and Presidential pardons are reserved for.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

I think Satan would have been k00L name.

You should watch more Hockey, Miroslav Satan plays.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by black bear theory 

how would you feel if kids were naming their stuffed animals after your god? i do think this whole thing is pretty dumb though.

I don't think the issue is how I'd feel but whether or not I'd go out in the streets chanting to execute someone for it.

[Kerrigan]

Certainly, to say that Islam is a religion of peace/violence is an oversimplification. To say that Islam is just a religion, and that "people use it to their ends" is equally oversimplified. The Islamic religious tradition exists as a cultural continuity which affects the way that Muslims, in this case of the Sudanese sort, view themselves, and it creates a framework within which individual Muslims make choices regarding their actions. Religion is too potent to be written off as an inconsequential element in the behavior of individuals. Case in point: there were no avowed atheists rioting and calling for this idiotic teacher's death.

But enough of that. Frankly I don't care about this ordeal. So a teacher whose obsession with cross-cultural experiences moves to a shithole called the Sudan and commits an obvious and glaring taboo, and a bunch of non-educated, poor, violence-prone Muslims call for her execution... there are no intelligent or important agents in this dilemma, just a s**t-show of people whom I'm glad I never have to deal with in my life.

[Chongo]

Mentally Retarded Women Used in Bombings
Women 'tricked into suicide blasts'

[OldManMac]

Well, Chongo, you've convinced me. What you posted is clear proof that all Muslims act like that. If this only had happened earlier, this thread would not have happened.

[Chongo]

[LegendaryPinkOx]

I have yet to meet an unkind Muslim. In fact a man from Saudia Arabia came to my work just last week, and was tapping rhythmically on the counter. I asked if he were a tabla player and he instantly had the biggest grin on his face! He wasn't insulted when I asked if we was from India, but corrected me, and offered to burn a cd of Arabian tabla music for me since I wasn't familiar with it. Islamic music is some of the most beautiful in the world imho

[f1000]

Originally Posted by vexborg 

If Gordon Brown had some balls he would pull out the British foreign aid to Sudan - it wasn't the fault of the teacher, she was there to help them be educated so that they could build a somewhat better future for the country.

And what kind of thank does she get? 15 days in prison, with treats of being shoot / executed...

If the aid workers were pulled out and the aid stopped, hopefully that'll teach them...

Bloody idiots!

Isn't most of the British aid going to help non-Arab black farmers who are being massacred by the Muslim Janjaweed? If anything, pulling the aid workers out would support the Muslim genocide of blacks in Darfur.

[Chongo]

Iranian sisters face stoning for adultery: report

Two Iranian sisters convicted of adultery face being stoned to death after the supreme court upheld the death sentences against them, the Etemad newspaper Monday quoted their lawyer as saying.

The two were found guilty of adultery -- a capital crime in Islamic Iran -- after the husband of one sister presented video evidence showing them in the company of other men while he was away.

"Branch 23 of the supreme court has confirmed the stoning sentence," said their lawyer, Jabbar Solati.

The penal court of Tehran province had already sentenced the sisters identified only as Zohreh, 27, and Azar (no age given) to stoning, the daily said.