[amazing]

So, it's not the 4S. From this study, it's the 3G modems and dongles:

Don't blame the iPhone 4S if your network is congested - Apple 2.0 - Fortune Tech

[Eug]

Personally, I'm surprised the 4S uses almost twice as much as the 4. I thought it'd be much less than twice as much.

[amazing]

I'm guessing that since the 4S is faster, you're tempted to use it more often?

Addendum:

--it's your newest toy: you're gonna pull it out and brag? Whereas you've gotten used to your iPhone 4, it's more utilitarian, not so brag-worthy anymore?

--the 4S has new capabilities, so you're gonna be exploring new stuff, but that'll settle down once you're comfortable with what the 4S does.

--everybody's quoting this study, mostly to say that the 4S is a data hog. Funny what the commentators overlook in quoting this study.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by amazing 

I'm guessing that since the 4S is faster, you're tempted to use it more often?

Addendum:

--it's your newest toy: you're gonna pull it out and brag? Whereas you've gotten used to your iPhone 4, it's more utilitarian, not so brag-worthy anymore?

--the 4S has new capabilities, so you're gonna be exploring new stuff, but that'll settle down once you're comfortable with what the 4S does.

--everybody's quoting this study, mostly to say that the 4S is a data hog. Funny what the commentators overlook in quoting this study.

Except, the "newest toy" explanation is just one possible theory, whereas the consumption numbers are fact.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by amazing 

--the 4S has new capabilities, so you're gonna be exploring new stuff, but that'll settle down once you're comfortable with what the 4S does.

I didn't tell them that, but my friends/family really look idiots when using Siri voice control in public. It'd be great for the car though.

[amazing]

Well, it seems we can't blame it on Siri (at least not all of it):

"Siri could be the spur for increased device usage. For example, it has been reported that even heavy Siri use only increases data usage by about 20MB a day, which is nowhere near the 2X leap Arieso discovered."
iPhone 4S users say yes to data - IPHONETOUCH.BLORGE

Of course, the increased data usage could all come from delightful youtube watching, like this super creative, super cute example of teasing your dog:

Ultimate Dog Tease - YouTube

[mduell]

Each dongle may use a lot, but there aren't that many dongles out there compared to iPhones.

[amazing]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Each dongle may use a lot, but there aren't that many dongles out there compared to iPhones.

Ah! That's the definition of 1% using all the resources!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by amazing 

So, it's not the 4S. From this study, it's the 3G modems and dongles:

I'm not surprised.

I personally can't wait until all the stupid unlimited data plans are gone.

Those high bandwidth leechers need to pay up, or stop, so that the network isn't congested for everyone.

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'm not surprised.

I personally can't wait until all the stupid unlimited data plans are gone.

Those high bandwidth leechers need to pay up, or stop, so that the network isn't congested for everyone.

Huh? The donglers pay for their service. And it's a dongle. What else do you expect them to do with it? Get a dongle plan and not use it?

BTW, up here in Canada with my wireless provider, any plan 1 GB or bigger gets tethering included. I have a 1 GB plan for my iPhone 4, and it can natively tether my laptop.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Huh? The donglers pay for their service. And it's a dongle. What else do you expect them to do with it? Get a dongle plan and not use it?

Maybe they are not paying enough.

-t

[amazing]

Imagine the congestion in the US if the Canadian model of including tethering prevailed here?

Nothing but gridlock...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Maybe they are not paying enough.

They already pay more than they do in Asia.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

They already pay more than they do in Asia.

Completely irrelevant.

And wrong, too.
In % of disposable income, they pay much more in Asia.

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Completely irrelevant.

Why? Cuz you've bought into the US carriers' practice of not allowing tethering, despite the fact that you've paid for the data usage?

Originally Posted by amazing 

Imagine the congestion in the US if the Canadian model of including tethering prevailed here?

Nothing but gridlock...

Note that I live in Toronto, the 5th biggest city in North America, yet somehow the carriers here can handle the tethering.

And wrong, too.

Not wrong. The prices there are lower. There are various reasons for that, but nonetheless the bottom line is that the prices there are cheaper.

In % of disposable income, they pay much more in Asia.

That's a different argument.

Macs are similarly priced in Asia, despite the lower incomes.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's a different argument.

Macs are similarly priced in Asia, despite the lower incomes.

It's the ONLY relevant argument.

Saying something is more / too expensive in absolute terms compared to a developing country / region is useless.

Are you running around saying that pizza in NA is overpriced because it's cheaper in Asia ?

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It's the ONLY relevant argument.

Saying something is more / too expensive in absolute terms compared to a developing country / region is useless.

Are you running around saying that pizza in NA is overpriced because it's cheaper in Asia ?

No, I'm saying that the contention that North American carriers can't handle native tethering is a crock, because we're already doing this is in the 5th largest city in North America.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eug 

No, I'm saying that the contention that North American carriers can't handle native tethering is a crock, because we're already doing this is in the 5th largest city in North America.

Who said they can't handle it ?

All I'm saying is they need to charge the right price, so that they can supply enough capacity that nobody gets bogged down. If the network gets slow, they need to eitehr install more capacity, or cut down usage.
But don't hand out unlimted plans while the network is growing slower and slower.

I oppose unlimited plans because it always means subsidizing the top 5% users by the remaining 95%.

-t

[amazing]

Toronto Greater Metro Polulation in 2006 was only 5,113,149

Montreal is 3,635,571.

Vancouver Metro is 2,116,581.

List of metropolitan areas in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA MSA population is 18,897,109 all by itself.

Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the humongous polution sizes goes on...

Big difference!

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Who said they can't handle it ?

All I'm saying is they need to charge the right price, so that they can supply enough capacity that nobody gets bogged down. If the network gets slow, they need to eitehr install more capacity, or cut down usage.
But don't hand out unlimted plans while the network is growing slower and slower.

That is not the users' fault. That is the carriers' fault.

I oppose unlimited plans because it always means subsidizing the top 5% users by the remaining 95%.

Not really. Overselling is a fact of life. It's stupid not to, from the business standpoint. However, it has to be done responsibly, and it seems your carriers haven't done so. Blame them, not the dongle users, who actually pair a fair price for their usage.

Originally Posted by amazing 

Toronto Greater Metro Polulation in 2006 was only 5,113,149

Montreal is 3,635,571.

Vancouver Metro is 2,116,581.

List of metropolitan areas in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA MSA population is 18,897,109 all by itself.

Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the humongous polution sizes goes on...

Big difference!

I'm not sure what your point is. Toronto is the 5th largest in North America and the carriers allow tethering on iPhone data plans.

However, if you go South Podunk, Idaho, you don't get tethering on iPhone plans. Same thing for Chicago.

If you go to North Podunk, Ontario, in Canada, you do get tethering on iPhone plans.

[turtle777]

It's a slightly different discussion if you look at tethering on limited plans.

Should there be a surcharge for allowing tethering ?

I'm torn. It's pretty clear that tethering cuases much more bandwidth usage.
However, if you pay for a certain amount, you should be able to use it.

I'd say the most fair thing would be to allow users to pick plans with less bandwidth for a lower price, so they are not forced to subsidize higher usage plans / users.

-t

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It's a slightly different discussion if you look at tethering on limited plans.

Should there be a surcharge for allowing tethering ?

No.

I'd say the most fair thing would be to allow users to pick plans with less bandwidth for a lower price, so they are not forced to subsidize higher usage plans / users.

Except you can't tether on these plans anyway, unless you jailbreak.

I do think it's reasonable to have lower GB plans though.

Mind you, I pay $20 a month for 1 GB data, including tethering support. (It's actually $30, but I got a $10 discount, because at the time they had a 6 GB plan for $30.)

I think $20 is reasonable for a 1 GB plan, including tethering, in North America.

[amazing]

I thought it was pretty clear: what works in Canada isn't gonna work in the US because of much greater population.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by amazing 

I thought it was pretty clear: what works in Canada isn't gonna work in the US because of much greater population.

That's just it, it's not clear. Toronto isn't as dense as New York, but it's denser than most of the US.

Despite this, we have it in Toronto, and in the US it's not available even in the non-dense areas.

Furthermore, in parts of Asia and Europe, it's allowed, and it's often even denser there.

My point is that the technology can most definitely support it, but it's the choice of the US carriers not to allow it, because it probably would mean having to upgrade their networks.

[amazing]

The point is that 1% dongles in Canada doesn't bring the network to a standstill, but 1% in the US would destroy the networks.

ATT says that they invested $20 billion in network improvements last year--which only bought them 25% fewer dropped calls. In other works, that huge investment only brought them to the level of quality that they should have had to begin with.
Surprise! AT&T's network got very good - Jan. 9, 2012

But, yeah, the technology is there: And ATT makes even more money by selling it as an extra. We done been had.