[art_director]

I mostly want to upgrade for the Universal Binaries so I can move to a Mac Pro. No point if I'm running CS2 apps in Rosetta.

Adobe has made a poor PR decision with this pricing.

[Westbo]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

You both speak the truth.

When I first started training as a graphic designer in high school, I was taught...ready?...how to set cold type. Now, I would never subject anyone to the special love that we call a California Job Case, but it really DID give me a long-lasting grounding in the craft and a connection to its origins. I know that sounds sappy, but I really think it counts for something when you understand that your profession's roots stretch back as far as Gutenberg and the invention of movable type.

It really is discouraging when I see young designers with no real understanding of the ability of typography to communicate an idea or message. I was lucky enough to go to school during the heyday of type and design gods like Bob Gill, Herb Lubalin, and Milton Glaser. It was a great time.

I did a short stint teaching freshman and sophomore graphic design some years ago at a local college and was appalled at how little typography played a part in the kid's curriculum. It was almost as if typography was a dirty word with the instructors. All they seemed interested in was "new media" and churning-out really pretty multimedia portfolios. With crappy typography. And there was absolutely NO instruction on basic reproduction techniques. Can you imagine calling yourself a graphic designer and not having even a remote clue how to prepare a file for offset printing? Even in this web-based world, I would imagine the average design job still entails a huge amount of print. I just don't get it.

I don't miss working with lead type. And I don't miss building keylines. Or hot waxers. Or rubylith. But, I'm sure glad I went through it all.

Okay...enough with the old geezer talk.
Now, you kids get off my lawn!

EGADS... not another old geezer! Herb Lubalin! Glazer! Look out- you are are dating yourself. OK kiddies, let's get out them haband rules and do some good 'ol type specing! No calculators- do the character count in your head.

It's Friday, gimme some fixative... I need a cheap high.

W2

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by Westbo 

EGADS... not another old geezer! Herb Lubalin! Glazer! Look out- you are are dating yourself. OK kiddies, let's get out them haband rules and do some good 'ol type specing! No calculators- do the character count in your head.

It's Friday, gimme some fixative... I need a cheap high.

W2

You want a cheap high? Work with a wall full of Magic markers all day. Better than huffing airplane glue.
I have one tool from back then that I still use because it's just better and quicker than anything on my Mac...my proportion wheel.

[andi*pandi]

the ad sales people at my school paper were always stealing my proportion wheel.

[Westbo]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

You want a cheap high? Work with a wall full of Magic markers all day. Better than huffing airplane glue.
I have one tool from back then that I still use because it's just better and quicker than anything on my Mac...my proportion wheel.

Thorzdad...
Whew, you got that right. I still have a 30+ year old set AD markers. They all had a kind of "oil" (kerosene?) base and still work even though the colors now all look kind a brownish. The later "alcohol" based markers didn't have the same kick. Magic Markers- wow, I had the large set that clamped to the table, but they dried up within a couple of years.

Anyway, we're getting off topic to the post. Maybe we should petition for an old geezers forum.

[andi*pandi]

I had to lug a tsquare 2 miles in the snow uphill to class.

[Westbo]

With or without shoes?

W2

[andi*pandi]

oh, you had shoes???? LUCKY!!! we only dreamed of shoes.

[Westbo]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

oh, you had shoes???? LUCKY!!! we only dreamed of shoes.

LOL Yes I took yours! Have a great w/e, A*P.

W2

[art_director]

Shoes? Who had shoes? I used the boxes stat paper came in. Yep, lined 'em with foam core and Ziptone™ scraps.

The effects of markers wore off after a while so I started drinking benzine from the can and doing lines of rubber eraser shavings.

That's the problem with students today -- too few carcinogens in studios. He11, you can't even whiff Spray Mount™ or Super 77® fumes anymore.

[glypht]

Lined stat paper boxes? Luxury! We had to walk twenty miles to work with nowt but old fix bottles strapped to our feet, work a thirty hour day and if we were lucky our boss would let us lie down for five minutes on a bed of discarded litho plates…

Hee hee hee…

And now, for nostalgia, allow me to present a list of things that have disappeared from studios in my relatively short career so far…

Rubylith, 15a scalpel blades, Spray Mount, that dark red paint that i can't remember the name of that you use to spot negs, negs, Cromalin toner, and of course SyQuests Zips and Jazs…

[Westbo]

Thorzdad, did you ever use SPRAY Magic Marker?

Art_Director, Benzine! that's the stuff that was used in markers.

Here's another one... I got a call recently from a consumer products client who were amazed to find out that I successfully used rubber cement to mount comp labels on painted plastic shampoo bottles. They also didn't know what a rubber cement pick up is!

More to the nostalgia list: Pos1 stat camera, Oxberry, Forox, PresType, Letraset, Formatt, Pinwheel rules, register marks tape, Rapidographs (still have several), ruling pens, tempra... If I keep this up my hair may come back! LOL

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Westbo 

Thorzdad, did you ever use SPRAY Magic Marker?

Art_Director, Benzine! that's the stuff that was used in markers.

Here's another one... I got a call recently from a consumer products client who were amazed to find out that I successfully used rubber cement to mount comp labels on painted plastic shampoo bottles. They also didn't know what a rubber cement pick up is!

More to the nostalgia list: Pos1 stat camera, Oxberry, Forox, PresType, Letraset, Formatt, Pinwheel rules, register marks tape, Rapidographs (still have several), ruling pens, tempra... If I keep this up my hair may come back! LOL

Wow, you're making me feel old. Now where did I set that application for an AARP card?

[KeriVit]

I was fortunate to get my BFA during the "transition" period. I learned keylines and boards, reeked of rubber cement. Every so often, I saddled up to the Mac Classic and whipped out some type on the BW monitor that I could print in color and paste up.

I have to admit, I love the Mac now as a tool but am thankful for learning the old school ways first. I have a true leg up on the undergrads and many grads I go to school with.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Wow, that's pretty low for them to go around you and straight to your faculty.
I suspect there's a lot riding on this release for Adobe and they are going to shove it down everyone's throats as hard as possible. Personally, I just don't see a good reason to upgrade right away. Bells-and-whistles and gee-whiz "features" just don't sell me anymore.

Yeah, I haven't really used any of the 'new' features. For me atleast, since 7 I haven't seen any 'must have' features. I only have CS2 because I needed Illustrator and with edu pricing it was cheaper to get the suite.

[Klipse]

it's overpriced if you asked me... i'm more than contented with CS2.. except that it doesn't work natively on my intel mac.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Klipse 

it's overpriced if you asked me... i'm more than contented with CS2.. except that it doesn't work natively on my intel mac.

I think that's the primary reason many of us want CS3 -- the Universal binary. CS2 in Rosetta works but it's not great. Besdies, I want some sexy new hardware w bad azz processing power.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I don't own CS2, but from my time using it at one of my jobs, I'd have to say Illustrator CS2 is the buggiest Adobe software I've ever used. If I were a CS2 owner, I can see that alone being good reason to upgrade.

I've been using Illustrator since version 5.5. Since version 9, I've been buying each upgrade in the vain hope that bugs would be fixed. I feel like a fool basically buying 3 versions in a row in the hopes that the program would simply get more usable. I wish Adobe would provide the occasional .5 release that really squashed bugs but good, every once in a while.

That said, I am curious to see what they've done with Illustrator CS3. Maybe someday soon we'll be able to place .PSD files?

[chris v]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

the ad sales people at my school paper were always stealing my proportion wheel.

I still use mine all the time.

Me: "It's 4" x 8" now -- how big do you want it to be?"
Client: 12" x 12."
Me *whips out proportion wheel*

[jmelrose]

Anyone know if there is a difference between the download version and what you get on disc(s)?

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by jmelrose 

Anyone know if there is a difference between the download version and what you get on disc(s)?

There shouldn't be.
Not sure, though, if the downloads are full-size applications or merely installers that then phone home to complete the installs when launched.

Personally, I like to have the factory discs in the drawer. But that's just me.

[jmelrose]

It is a 3.2GB download. I can't imagine there being much more to phone home for!

CS2 came on 4 CDs, I believe, so that was at most 2.5GB. One would home a DVD would cover it.

This is the educational install... might be some extra material in there beefing things up a bit over the commercial version.

[glypht]

Originally Posted by chris v 

That said, I am curious to see what they've done with Illustrator CS3. Maybe someday soon we'll be able to place .PSD files?

In what way do you consider yourself unable to do this in current versions? I place .psd files in Illustrator douments all the time and it's a Godsend…

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by chris v 

That said, I am curious to see what they've done with Illustrator CS3. Maybe someday soon we'll be able to place .PSD files?

Originally Posted by glypht 

In what way do you consider yourself unable to do this in current versions? I place .psd files in Illustrator douments all the time and it's a Godsend…

Yeah, I'm kind of curious about that, myself. I place .psd file all the time, too. It's an absolute necessity, especially when designing websites and graphics.

Myself, I'd love to know if the type engine has been improved. That horror that they introduced with CS1 almost makes Illustrator unusable for anything other than a simple column of text.

[jmelrose]

Well, I don't know what's on the hard disc, but I just downloaded the full Web Premium Suite.

It comes as a set of disc images, and here is what the EDU Web Premium Suite comes with:
Creative Suite 3 Web Premium-Content.dmg
Fireworks CS3 Content.dmg
Dreamweaver CS3 User Guide.pdf
Installation Instructions.pdf
Flash CS3 Professional Content.dmg
Install CS3 Web Premium.dmg
Photoshop CS3 Professional Content.dmg
Illustrator CS3 Content.dmg

I backed everything up to a DVD, but it seems I can re-download whenever I need to. There's no listed limit on downloads, nor a "download by" date. In fact, all my old Macromedia downloads are still in my account, and list as being able to download today if I want to again.

I'm guessing the ability to re-download etc is a benefit of the activation process. Clearly it doesn't matter how many times I download, I can only run and install it so many times. Nice to know that besides my backup, I can get the suite from the Adobe servers. I wonder if, as the suite gets updates (X.01-type ones), the main download image gets updated as well as individual updaters/applications.

Overall, a smooth process. No problems here. Glad to have a Universal version of Acrobat!

[nycdunz]

for those of you who have both PPC and Intel macs, how does CS3 run on both machines, is there a substantial increase in speed running CS3 on mactels over g5 PPC?

[webmonkie]

I can't excuse the software upgrade.

I personally own Adobe Creative Suite CS2 Premium Edition and Adobe (Macromedia) Studio 8.
The applications do everything I need and more. You would think Adobe would motivate users like me to upgrade, but this prices are just to much money. Maybe I'll upgrade in mid 2008 or just wait until the next upgrade!

[Corys]

Originally Posted by jmelrose 

Anyone know if there is a difference between the download version and what you get on disc(s)?

I did download version on CS 2.3, and it was just dmg's of the factory disks. just mounted all the dmg's and installed..worked out nice..

also burned them to dvd for backup

[chris v]

Originally Posted by glypht 

In what way do you consider yourself unable to do this in current versions? I place .psd files in Illustrator douments all the time and it's a Godsend…

Whenever I try, it tells me "the file blahblah.psd is in a format which cannot be placed."

Is it because I'm trying to place multichannel files? (I haven't tried a CMYK or an RGB file)

Edit: aha, yes it is. I'll amend my previous post to I'd like multichannel PSD file support in Illustrator.

[Copywriter]

The downside to buying under a EDU license is you can't use the programs in a commercial nature.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Copywriter 

The downside to buying under a EDU license is you can't use the programs in a commercial nature.

While the EDU license states that you cannot use it for commercial purposes many people do and Adobe is none the wiser. Personally, I go the full on commercial route.

[Copywriter]

I'm not so certain about the none the wiser part. It's not complicated to have the program encode the license info into files made with it, so I'd like to think Adobe did this.

Can't say I've ever heard of someone getting in trouble for it, but that doesn't mean they can just pop open a file and read the license data to track it back to the person.

But, what people do is their own business. I just pointed it out, because a lot of EDU buyers don't know about that line in the license. Adobe did a good job with pointing it out, but others (OFFICE comes to mind) haven't.

I haven't bought CS3 just yet. I'm waiting for my new Mac Pro then I'm buying the full Web Premium pack. That's going to hurt--twice.

[jmelrose]

I also thought I had heard about Adobe putting an invisible watermark of sorts into educational images/files. It is stipulated that the product not be used for commercial purposes... Making a website for a school is fine with it, making one for Target.com, not so much.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Copywriter 

I'm not so certain about the none the wiser part.

I know several people using EDU copies of Adobe apps to make large sums of money annually. So, if Adobe does know, they don't seem inclined to do anything about it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

It is high but at least you get more for the price than you do with Quark.

[Chuckit]

That depends on how you measure it. If you're counting time taken and number of crashes, Quark definitely gives you a lot more.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

It is high but at least you get more for the price than you do with Quark.

Not if you upgrade from ala carte apps. Then you lose money as compared by price, feature sets, etc. Adobe blew it on the pricing tiers and packages, IMHO.

[Macola]

I find myself in the very unusual position of hoping that Quark hangs on to, or even grows, its market share. If you think Adobe is screwing us with its pricing now, imagine what it would be like if the last vestige of competition were gone.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Macola 

I find myself in the very unusual position of hoping that Quark hangs on to, or even grows, its market share. If you think Adobe is screwing us with its pricing now, imagine what it would be like if the last vestige of competition were gone.

As much as Quark pisses me off I'm going to have to agree with you. Quark's ego has transferred to Adobe.

BTW, has anyone actually bothered with the Quark 7 upgrade? I have yet to speak with anyone using it. Most everyone I know has moved to ID.

[Westbo]

Originally Posted by art_director 

As much as Quark pisses me off I'm going to have to agree with you. Quark's ego has transferred to Adobe.

BTW, has anyone actually bothered with the Quark 7 upgrade? I have yet to speak with anyone using it. Most everyone I know has moved to ID.

I've been using QX7, exporting back to v6 for clients and vendors who haven't upgraded. It is more stable than 6x. I haven't had those infamous random quits or "file not found" bugs when saving. It does have some nice features even though they tend to be overthought and clunky.

W2

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Westbo 

I've been using QX7, exporting back to v6 for clients and vendors who haven't upgraded. It is more stable than 6x. I haven't had those infamous random quits or "file not found" bugs when saving. It does have some nice features even though they tend to be overthought and clunky.

W2

Alas, someone who upgraded. What do you think of it?

I decided the $250 upgrade money could go to better use given that none of my clients has made the move.

[Macola]

Originally Posted by Westbo 

I've been using QX7, exporting back to v6 for clients and vendors who haven't upgraded. It is more stable than 6x. I haven't had those infamous random quits or "file not found" bugs when saving. It does have some nice features even though they tend to be overthought and clunky.
W2

Any significant changes to the interface, or does it still look like something out of the 80s?

[Westbo]

The measurement bar at the bottom does have more gizmos. For example it now includes runaround, borders, all the text features etc. There is transparency for color and type. There are several "picture effects" aka photoshop filters. Colors are still managed the same ol' clunky way. It is after all Quark.