[marden]

Harvard Club Promotes Abstinence

Mar 22 12:58 PM US/Eastern
By JESSE HARLAN ALDERMAN
Associated Press Writer


CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) - Sometime between the founding of a student-run porn magazine and the day the campus health center advertised "Free Lube," Harvard University seniors Sarah Kinsella and Justin Murray decided to fight back against what they see as too much mindless sex at the Ivy League school.

They founded a student group called True Love Revolution to promote abstinence on campus. The group, created earlier this school year, has more than 90 members on its Facebook.com page and drew about half that many to an ice cream social.

Harvard treats sex—or "hooking up"—so casually that "sometimes I wonder if sex is even a remotely serious thing," said Kinsella, who is dating Murray.

Other schools around the country have small groups devoted to abstinence. On most campuses, they are religious organizations. Princeton and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology have Anscombe Societies, secular organizations named after an English philosopher and Roman Catholic. True Love Revolution is secular as well.

Some feminists, in particular, have criticized True Love Revolution's message.

Harvard student Rebecca Singh said she was offended by a valentine the group sent to the dormitory mailboxes of all freshmen. It read: "Why wait? Because you're worth it."

"I think they thought that we might not be `ruined' yet," Singh said. "It's a symptom of that culture we have that values a woman on her purity. It's a relic."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

YES!

[Goldfinger]

Lol. Silly.

[- - e r i k - -]

Retards.

[marden]

Because there's nothing more important than pleasure?

[- - e r i k - -]

Pretty much.

[Gossamer]

Harvard student Rebecca Singh said she was offended by a valentine the group sent to the dormitory mailboxes of all freshmen. It read: "Why wait? Because you're worth it."

"I think they thought that we might not be `ruined' yet," Singh said. "It's a symptom of that culture we have that values a woman on her purity. It's a relic."

If they sent the same valentine to all freshman, why is she making the implication that they're only concerned about the purity of women?

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by marden 

YES!

Yet, about Hugh Hefner living with three chicks:

Originally Posted by marden 

Of course not! We envy him.

I leave you to come to your own conclusions.

I have no problems with people choosing abstinence. It's a personal decision. But keep it to yourself already. I never preached that teens should have sex, for me that also was a personal decision.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

If they sent the same valentine to all freshman, why is she making the implication that they're only concerned about the purity of women?

There are several possible reasons. Someone should look online for more info to answer that question.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Yet, about Hugh Hefner living with three chicks:

I leave you to come to your own conclusions.

I'll help those who are known to be conclusion challenged.

Life is complex.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Pretty much.

I refuse to believe you subscribe to a life view that is so selfish and lowly.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by marden 

There are several possible reasons. Someone should look online for more info to answer that question.

It's not really any concern of mine, I was just throwing the question out there.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by marden 

I'll help those who are known to be conclusion challenged.

Nice. Instead of admitting your obvious double standards, you try and turn it into an attack.
But that's nothing new.

Anyway, I normally manage to ignore your posts. I'll be going back to that from now on.

[Dakar²]

I have no problem with this.

It's been organized by students.
College students should be better equipped to make this decision.
It's too late for many of them anyway.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Nice. Instead of admitting your obvious double standards, you try and turn it into an attack.

But that's nothing new.

Anyway, I normally manage to ignore your posts. I'll be going back to that from now on.

If it means anything to you at all, I wasn't attacking you. It was more like a gentle nudge.

[Mithras]

This kind of club will only succeed if the founders are hot. Otherwise no one will pay any attention.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I have no problem with this.

It's been organized by students.
College students should be better equipped to make this decision.
It's too late for many of them anyway.

Born Again Virginity is an option many people should consider. How many times have you known young people who have said they want to just take a break from relationships completely for a while? Like Ross and Rachel on Friends. Sex introduces a new set of dynamics that are difficult to deal with and if you make a mistake too often the results last much longer than that one brief encounter or that one 'failed' romance.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by marden 

How many times have you known young people who have said they want to just take a break from relationships completely for a while?

None.

Originally Posted by marden 

Like Ross and Rachel on Friends. Sex introduces a new set of dynamics that are difficult to deal with and if you make a mistake too often the results last much longer than that one brief encounter or that one 'failed' romance.

If you're smart enough to get into Harvard and don't know enough to use a condom, you practically deserve what you get.

[bstone]

At Harvard we have a lot of interesting people. Very interesting. These are some of them. In a few short months they won't be at Harvard any longer.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Nice. Instead of admitting your obvious double standards, you try and turn it into an attack.
But that's nothing new.

Anyway, I normally manage to ignore your posts. I'll be going back to that from now on.

Right. A couple of days ago, he's foaming at the mouth over a jpeg someone posted here, of a young lady with enormous boobs, saying how hot she is!

BTW, marden, I'm still waiting for your answer here. http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...range-predict/

[nonhuman]

There's nothing wrong wit promoting abstinence. So long as it isn't done to the exclusion of teaching about the dangers of unprotected sex, and what the appropriate steps are to avoid those dangers.

[goMac]

When "Why wait? Because you're worth it." is your tagline, you know you have a problem.

I don't have a problem with promoting abstinence, but that's just a dumb reason to be abstinent.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

There's nothing wrong wit promoting abstinence. So long as it isn't done to the exclusion of teaching about the dangers of unprotected sex, and what the appropriate steps are to avoid those dangers.

Exactly!
Teach abstinence AND safe sex. Those who want to be abstinent will have knowledge on how to go about doing it and those who want to be sexually active, and safe, will have knowledge on how to go about doing it. It's a win for everyone.

[peeb]

God bless the First Amendment!

[marden]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

Right. A couple of days ago, he's foaming at the mouth over a jpeg someone posted here, of a young lady with enormous boobs, saying how hot she is!

BTW, marden, I'm still waiting for your answer here. http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...range-predict/

You remind me of someone who not only eagerly anticipates being told where to go but also looks forward to the journey.

[OldManMac]

You remind me of what you are; a pseudo intellectual who thinks that he can pull the wool over people's eyes with a bunch of flowery language and cheap insults, and who, once backed into a corner, results to those insults and ignores answering questions that he can't.

[marden]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

You remind me of what you are; a pseudo intellectual who thinks that he can pull the wool over people's eyes with a bunch of flowery language and cheap insults, and who, once backed into a corner, results to those insults and ignores answering questions that he can't.

Like that's a bad thing?

[macintologist]

The whole virgin purity nonsense is a relic from the past when women were property and virginity would guarentee the male suitor that she was untouched.

[marden]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

The whole virgin purity nonsense is a relic from the past when women were property and virginity would guarentee the male suitor that she was untouched.

Well, let's just discard ALLLLLLLL of the societal family traditions as nonsensical relics, whydon'twe?

Incest taboos? A relic. Two parent (man/woman) families? Nonsense! Hey, let's see if we can recycle an otherwise workable idea, child labor! If we can teach these crumb snatchers to program software and design websites that will appeal to their contemporaries, why does there need to be an arbitrary nonsensical age restriction on how much they can work or earn? I know some pre-teens who started their own online businesses. No need to be bogged down by convention or outdated tradition any more, I say!

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by marden 

I refuse to believe you subscribe to a life view that is so selfish and lowly.

Spoken like a true puritan. But fine, replace pleasure with happiness and you pretty much have my life philosophy.

The view that denial of pleasure is somehow making for a purer individual is antiquated. I don't care what these students choose to do with themselves or not, but them pushing their self-denial unto others is, with scorn, - oh here it comes - selfish.

And puritan societal family traditions are not the world norm anymore. Sorry to inform you that most of the world have indeed moved on. As we have moved on from child labour.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Spoken like a true puritan. But fine, replace pleasure with happiness and you pretty much have my life philosophy.

The view that denial of pleasure is somehow making for a purer individual is antiquated. I don't care what these students choose to do with themselves or not, but them pushing their self-denial unto others is, with scorn, - oh here it comes - selfish.

And puritan societal family traditions are not the world norm anymore. Sorry to inform you that most of the world have indeed moved on. As we have moved on from child labour.

Oh?

The Prophet Muhammad is quoted to have said, "What have I to do with worldly things? My connection with the world is like that of a traveler resting for a while underneath the shade of a tree and then moving on." He advised the people to live simple lives and himself practiced great austerities. Even when he had become the virtual king of Arabia, he lived an austere life bordering on privation. His wife Aiysha says that there was hardly a day in his life when he had two square meals (Muslim, Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, pg 198). When he died there was nothing in his house except a few seeds of barley left from a mound of the grain obtained from a Jew by pawning his armour (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari, Chapter "Aljihad").

“When a man obeys his wife and rebels against his mother, when a person will draw closer to his friend and stay aloof from his father than await the red dust storm, earth quakes, sinking of people, and disfigurement of people.” The total collapse of the family will lead to the collapse of morality in society, which will in-turn herald the major signs of Qiyâmah. Eid ul Adha requires that we re-examine our faith in Allâh, it requires us to re-examine our conduct as fathers and husbands. Is Islamic orientation taking place in our homes? Do we enjoy the confidence, trust and loyalty of our spouses and children? Are we prepared to brave the pangs of hunger, thirst and isolation in our quest for Divine pleasure?

[- - e r i k - -]

I guess bringing up Islam is the universal rebuttal these days.

[OldManMac]

It is when you don't have anything else substantial to say, and when you can't rebut anyone's points, but would rather provide a generic answer that suits what you want to hear.

[- - e r i k - -]

I know. It goes like this:

Me: X aspect of Christianity doesn't make sense.
Marden/SkyCaptain/Whoever: Yeah?!? Well look at Islam! It sucks equally/worse!
Me: WTF? What part of my signature don't you get? It has the picture of the World Trade Center with the words "Imagine No Religion" on it. Think an argument about Islam is going to sway me?

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I guess bringing up Islam is the universal rebuttal these days.

I say the only difference between conservatives and ignorants are that the conservatives accurately perceive the threat to our society posed by the 6th pillar of Islam.

[marden]

Originally Posted by KarlG 

It is when you don't have anything else substantial to say, and when you can't rebut anyone's points, but would rather provide a generic answer that suits what you want to hear.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I know. It goes like this:

Me: X aspect of Christianity doesn't make sense.
Marden/SkyCaptain/Whoever: Yeah?!? Well look at Islam! It sucks equally/worse!
Me: WTF? What part of my signature don't you get? It has the picture of the World Trade Center with the words "Imagine No Religion" on it. Think an argument about Islam is going to sway me?

Right. Now imagine I'm not pointing at you and laughing.



Imagining doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[- - e r i k - -]

What are you? Twelve?

Seriously. What part of my signature are you not getting here?

Looks like someone is ignorant first, conservative second.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

What are you? Twelve?

Seriously. What part of my signature are you not getting here?

Looks like someone is ignorant first, conservative second.

If the Islamic extremists are committed to achieving their religious goals, as they perceive them to be, it may be all well and good to imagine what the world would be IF they DIDN'T have this religious conviction, but the reality is that we must FIRST deal with the fact that they DO have this religious belief and because of that belief they want to kill you.

I'd say you need to get your priorities straight.

Or am I missing something STILL?

[- - e r i k - -]

My priorities are pretty clear. Your argument that because another religion sucks does not do anything to help your arguments for your own religion.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

My priorities are pretty clear. Your argument that because another religion sucks does not do anything to help your arguments for your own religion.

Your priorities may be pretty clear but how about your view of reality?

I have not asked that anyone adopt or convert to ANY religion, only that we be free from forced conversion to any religion.

If you haven't noticed Islamic extremists are killing those who disagree with their religious beliefs. It isn't that they suck, as much as that they are a threat to our lives our lifestyles our freedoms and our system of government.

Ayman al-Zawahiri: "The Whole World Is An Open Field For Us." ZAWAHIRI:

"The war with Israel is not about a treaty, a cease-fire agreement, Sykes-Picot borders, national zeal, or disputed borders. It is rather a jihad for the sake of God until the religion of God is established. It is jihad for the liberation of Palestine, all Palestine, as well as every land that was a home for Islam, from Andalusia to Iraq. The whole world is an open field for us." (Al-Zawahiri's 'Full' Message On War In Lebanon, Gaza Strip, Posted On Jihadist Website, 7/28/06)


Osama Bin Laden: "Death Is Better Than Living On This Earth With The Unbelievers Amongst Us." BIN LADEN:

"O young people of Islam: Follow the orders of Almighty God and His messenger and kill those people. Follow the example of Muhammad Bin-Musallamah and his companions. Death is better than living on this earth with the unbelievers amongst us, making a mockery of our religion and prophet, God's peace and blessings upon him. Fear God, try to please Him, and do not consult with anyone regarding the killing of those unbelievers." (Translation Of Bin Laden’s 52-Minute Audiotape, Posted On Jihadist Website, 4/27/06)

Al-Qaeda Charter:

"There Will Be Continuing Enmity Until Everyone Believes In Allah. We Will Not Meet [The Enemy] Halfway And There Will Be No Room For Dialogue With Them." (Al Qaeda Charter, Released By The White House Press Office, 9/5/06)

Al-Qaeda Training Manual: "The Confrontation That Islam Calls For … Knows The Dialogue Of Bullets, The Ideals Of Assassination, Bombing, And Destruction."

"Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it. The confrontation that Islam calls for with these godless and apostate regimes, does not know Socratic debates, Platonic ideals nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assassination, bombing, and destruction, and the diplomacy of the cannon and machine-gun." (Al-Qaeda Training Manual, Available At: Al Qaeda Training Manual, Accessed 9/5/06)

In Their Own Words: What the Terrorists Believe, What They Hope to Accomplish, and How They Intend to Accomplish It

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

What are you? Twelve?

Seriously. What part of my signature are you not getting here?

Looks like someone is ignorant first, conservative second.

If the west -- Australia, Europe, America -- ALL became atheist tomorrow, the Islamic extremists would STILL be trying to conquer and/or kill us. While you are 'imagining no religion' they will be drawing their weapons on you and then when you are at the muzzle of their gun what will you imagine?

[- - e r i k - -]

Man, you miss the political lounge, don't you?

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Man, you miss the political lounge, don't you?

What would make you think that?

But back to the topic, peace can't be unilateral. That's called capitulation or surrender.

They are committed to conquer or kill us. Imagining there's no religion isn't going to prevent their acting on their commitment.

[- - e r i k - -]

That's not the topic.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

That's not the topic.

Thanks for the reminder.

Abstinence = Good.

Hot monkey sex for young unmarried people = Bad.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Spoken like a true puritan. But fine, replace pleasure with happiness and you pretty much have my life philosophy.

The view that denial of pleasure is somehow making for a purer individual is antiquated. I don't care what these students choose to do with themselves or not, but them pushing their self-denial unto others is, with scorn, - oh here it comes - selfish.

And puritan societal family traditions are not the world norm anymore. Sorry to inform you that most of the world have indeed moved on. As we have moved on from child labour.

Yes, but it's simply a reaction to the gluttony that our current society teaches. In high school, you're a loser if you do not have sex. The media via hollywood says it, the internet is saying it, and your friends are saying it. (You've been there, admit it) This is a societal teaching that will indefinitely keep people from abstaining from sex, thus making your point that people can abstain if they they just simply want to just plain wrong. Peer pressure plays way too big of a role during the period where people are starting to have sex.

There is immense pleasure that can be had by DENYING yourself pleasure, at least temporarily, which is something our "everything right now" culture completely ignores. Here's a ridiculous example to make my point. You know when you're driving down the interstate on vacation and you pass the rest area right as you realize you need to go pee and you had to drive an extra 20 miles to find a gas station? Wasn't the pee at the end of that wait the best pee you had in your life, leaving you far more relieved than if you want at the original rest area? It's the same way with nearly everything in life IMO. Happiness is a relative, so you have to take quite a bit of bad before you know you have it good.