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davesimondotcom · Jul 21, 2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Yeah - that's as stupid as the apparently prevalent assumption that Israelis are incapable of evil and misguided policies.

Or the opposite, that anything Israel or the US does is inherently evil.

hyteckit · Jul 21, 2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. I can't help it if your minds are so small that you don't understand what I'm on about.
It's real simple: A government forcing a religious person to pay for something he doesn't believe in is the government interfering with the practise of that religion. Which is against your first amendment, AFAIK.

Nope, you're still drunk. Only a drunken fool has such a twisted view of what separation of church and state means and what freedom of press/expression/religion means. Freedom of religion means the goverment cannot persecute because of your religion. Goverment can do whatever it please with your tax dollars within the law.

Why should a vegan or buddhist pay taxes to subsidize farmers to slaugther animals? It's against their belief. Why should the Amish pay taxes to invest in nuclear weapons and the advancement of technology? It's against their beliefs. Why should Catholics pay taxes to provide free condoms and sex education. Why should Catholics pay to support capital punishment?

Dakar · Jul 21, 2006, 04:31 PM

You're barking up the wrong tree. Doofy has an atypical view on taxes. He'll probably agree on all those last questions being unfair use of tax dollars.

Doofy · Jul 21, 2006, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Freedom of religion means the goverment cannot persecute because of your religion.

Wrong. It also means that you're able to practise your religion without government interference. Taking money off you to pay for something you don't believe in is a restriction of that free practise. I wouldn't expect you to understand, since you obviously have no religion.

And yes, all those instances you cite are correct too. It's real easy to fix - just have a bit extra on the tax return which asks what you're not willing to fund and the tax which would have been allocated to that will go elsewhere. Real easy in these days of computerised tax collection.

Doofy · Jul 21, 2006, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

You're barking up the wrong tree. Doofy has an atypical view on taxes. He'll probably agree on all those last questions being unfair use of tax dollars.

Correct. I am a minarchist, after all.

hyteckit · Jul 21, 2006, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Wrong. It also means that you're able to practise your religion without government interference. Taking money off you to pay for something you don't believe in is a restriction of that free practise. I wouldn't expect you to understand, since you obviously have no religion.

And yes, all those instances you cite are correct too. It's real easy to fix - just have a bit extra on the tax return which asks what you're not willing to fund and the tax which would have been allocated to that will go elsewhere. Real easy in these days of computerised tax collection.

What a doofus. Tell that to the mormons 100 years ago, when the US ban them from practicing polygamy. Tell California governor Arnold, that he can't use state taxes to fund stem cell research.

Rumor · Jul 21, 2006, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

What a doofus. Tell that to the mormons 100 years ago, when the US ban them from practicing polygamy. Tell California governor Arnold, that he can't use state taxes to fund stem cell research.

He's using the tax money to provide loans.

Doofy · Jul 21, 2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

What a doofus. Tell that to the mormons 100 years ago, when the US ban them from practicing polygamy.

I cant help it if the US government (in all guises, Republican and Democrat) continually screws its people over and you let them. There's absolutely no reason why polygamy should be outlawed - especially since it's not actually condemned by Christianity, the prevalent view over there in the colonies.

With the banning of polygamy, the US has proven that its constitution ain't worth the paper it's written on.

Rumor · Jul 21, 2006, 05:41 PM

Polygamy sounds great.

Edit: corrected by Doofy

Doofy · Jul 21, 2006, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Polygamy sounds great.

At least for the men.

Go look up the definition of polygamy. Then compare it with polygyny.

Rumor · Jul 21, 2006, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Go look up the definition of polygamy. Then compare it with polygyny.

I'll be damned. I didn't know that it applied to women also. Learn something new everyday.

Doofy · Jul 21, 2006, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

I'll be damned. I didn't know that it applied to women also. Learn something new everyday.

Well there ya go.

BRussell · Jul 22, 2006, 03:05 AM

I'm curious, for those of you who don't like spending federal funds on killing human embryos to try to cure diseases, how do you feel about spending federal funds on killing Iraqi civilians to try to bring democracy?

Doofy · Jul 22, 2006, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

How does that compare to a government forcing a NON-religious (or "differently religious") person to pay for Christian evangelism and celibacy programs?

Shouldn't have to pay.

Originally Posted by analogika

Or forcing a self-subsistent small village farmer to pay taxes for harbor development

Shouldn't have to pay.

Originally Posted by analogika

or highways

Should come from road tax.

Originally Posted by analogika

or federal police forces that do not benefit him?

Nope, you've lost me there. How do federal police forces not benefit him?

Originally Posted by analogika

Or anti-terror investments?

How does this not benefit him?

Originally Posted by analogika

Fact is, you live in a country, and even if you didn't vote for the current government, it decides IN YOUR NAME.

That's the way it works.

That's the way it works. At the moment. Doesn't mean that it's the right way or that I have to accept it.

dcmacdaddy · Jul 22, 2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I'm curious, for those of you who don't like spending federal funds on killing human embryos to try to cure diseases, how do you feel about spending federal funds on killing Iraqi civilians to try to bring democracy?

Well, there not Americans so why not? I mean, I am against killing human American embryos; You can kill all the Iraqi embryos you want, just leave us decent, God-fearing American embryos alone.

Wiskedjak · 09:09 AM

4 pages, and no one has actually said what they feel is wrong about stem cell research.

What is wrong about stem cell research?

ironknee · Jul 22, 2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Well, there not Americans so why not? I mean, I am against killing human American embryos; You can kill all the Iraqi embryos you want, just leave us decent, God-fearing American embryos alone.

that's why bush vetoed it so OTHER countries can experiment on THEIR godless embryos

stevesnj · Jul 22, 2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

4 pages, and no one has actually said what they feel is wrong about stem cell research.

What is wrong about stem cell research?

Because there is nothing wrong with it, it is all about a President and his personal religious beleifs, even he knows the possibility that this may help millions of people around the world. His faith in in his religion is more important than even giving this potential miracle a chance.

BRussell · Jul 22, 2006, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Because there is nothing wrong with it, it is all about a President and his personal religious beleifs, even he knows the possibility that this may help millions of people around the world. His faith in in his religion is more important than even giving this potential miracle a chance.

Or, even more cynically (and my personal belief), it doesn't have anything to do with his religious beliefs and is just about politics.

demograph68 · Jul 22, 2006, 07:14 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rkA1aN1osVk

greenG4 · Jul 22, 2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Or, even more cynically (and my personal belief), it doesn't have anything to do with his religious beliefs and is just about politics.

Which implies you beleive that refusing to compromise your beleifs no matter how much pressure is put on you is somehow cynical.

MinM · Jul 22, 2006, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

4 pages, and no one has actually said what they feel is wrong about stem cell research.

What is wrong about stem cell research?

What's wrong with stem cell research? Nothing.

What's wrong with federally funded stem cell research? Potentially, quite a bit.

stevesnj · Jul 22, 2006, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Or, even more cynically (and my personal belief), it doesn't have anything to do with his religious beliefs and is just about politics.

I dunno he says God told him invade Iraq, i think religion has to be a major part of it. The politics of it is a given.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml

Originally Posted by demograph68

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rkA1aN1osVk

WOW, imagine that Michael Fox could be helped or could of been helped by persuing this research. Frustrating and dissapointment must be the ultimate understatement by this guy who cannot even sit still. So sad

greenG4 · Jul 22, 2006, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I dunno he says God told him invade Iraq, i think religion has to be a major part of it. The politics of it is a given.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml

For those of you who may assume this is a direct quote of Bush...it's not. More like third-hand information. But hey, the Bush-haters will swallow anything anti-Bush hook, line and sinker.

davesimondotcom · Jul 22, 2006, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

WOW, imagine that Michael Fox could be helped or could of been helped by persuing this research. Frustrating and dissapointment must be the ultimate understatement by this guy who cannot even sit still. So sad

Parkinsons is a terrible thing to be stricken with. Having it so early in life would only make it worse.

I had a baseball coach who had it, and it was disturbing to watch him try to eat something like soup.

I can only imagine the personal hell that disease is.

Wiskedjak · Jul 22, 2006, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by MinM

What's wrong with stem cell research? Nothing.

What's wrong with federally funded stem cell research? Potentially, quite a bit.

What is potentially wrong with federally funded stem cell research?

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by greenG4

For those of you who may assume this is a direct quote of Bush...it's not. More like third-hand information. But hey, the Bush-haters will swallow anything anti-Bush hook, line and sinker.

You might as well not even tell them. They are gonna repost it as if it were the truth again.

They don't care.

Busemann · Jul 25, 2006, 06:50 AM

If he didn't say it, why hasn't someone refuted it?

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 06:59 AM

Um someone just did.

Ever play that game where you say one thing to someone, and they pass it on to another. By the time it gets to the end of the line, the message is different?

This is what happened.

Bush DID say he felt he had a moral obligation to help the Palis get their own state.

THE HORROR!

Busemann · 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Um someone just did.

Who proved it to be wrong? greenG4? I don't think he did actually.

All of these people in the room said this is what Bush said, and neither Bush or anyone else that were there, or know the situation, has since claimed otherwise. Bush has said more extreme things in the past, so what makes you think it's a misquote? What makes this quote so bad that you don't want him to have said it?

Bush DID say he felt he had a moral obligation to help the Palis get their own state.

"I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state." is more like it. Plus 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Busemann

Hmm "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state." is more like it.

So what if he said that?

Who cares. You guys act like he slapped the guy. No one is denying he said that above.

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Because there is nothing wrong with it, it is all about a President and his personal religious beleifs, even he knows the possibility that this may help millions of people around the world. His faith in in his religion is more important than even giving this potential miracle a chance.

But but he made religious comments and it makes me feel insecuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

Wiskedjak · Jul 25, 2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

What is potentially wrong with federally funded stem cell research?

So, there is nothing potentially wrong with federally funded stem cell research? Then what's the big deal?

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 11:06 AM

Some believe it's morally wrong. Morals are what makes us human.

ironknee · Jul 25, 2006, 11:31 AM

people helping others to live a better life by curing deseases. that's human

Kevin · Jul 25, 2006, 10:57 PM

Made from aborted baby parts.

Uncle Skeleton · Jul 26, 2006, 02:00 AM

Kev, how long did it take for you to brainwash yourself into thinking embryos are the same as babies? Or if you aren't brainwashed yet, why do you think it's necessary to use incorrect words in order to make your case?