[turtle777]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why is it that they can't grow enough food to feed themselves and keep the prices down?

My pet turtle has a better grasp on macro-economics than you.

-t

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

So the Muslim Brotherhood had nothing to do with all this? Why is it that they can't grow enough food to feed themselves and keep the prices down? Nobody knows how to grow crops? Everybody is an Islamist scholar and nobody has skills.

I hear the gumdrops are good this time of year in Fantasy Candy Land. Care to comment?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Oh, let me guess, that's what we have *you* for ?

-t

I obviously understand the the ramifications of the unrest in Egypt better than you do; whether they have oil or not, the unrest could spread to other oil producing countries in the region. Food price hikes, which are tied to oil (think fertilizer, transportation, processing) are beginning to cause problems over a good part of the globe, as people are getting fed up with their dictatorial "leaders," and want change.

How Protests in the Middle East Could Choke Our Oil Addiction | Environment | AlterNet

If it helps you to feel better about yourself by mocking me, have at it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Food price hikes, which are tied to oil (think fertilizer, transportation, processing) are beginning to cause problems over a good part of the globe, as people are getting fed up with their dictatorial "leaders," and want change.

Yeah, you're changing your tune.

I agree that food prices are a big issue and factor.
But oil is not the root cause, just a symptom.

Oil and food getting more expensive is the doing of the Bernank, and it's money-printing bunch of monkeys at the Fed. Plus, we're running out of cheap oil in general, "peak oil" is the key word.

-t

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I hear the gumdrops are good this time of year in Fantasy Candy Land. Care to comment?

Again, you make no point. You are blathering.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

My pet turtle has a better grasp on macro-economics than you.

-t

you are assuming. they have the government they deserve and they are not industrious enough to do anything about it. It's cultural.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

you are assuming. they have the government they deserve and they are not industrious enough to do anything about it. It's cultural.

I think the millions of Egyptians, Jordanians, Tunesians, etc. demonstrating for more participation have decided they deserve better, they are in the process of pushing for change. Is that cultural as well?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

you are assuming. they have the government they deserve and they are not industrious enough to do anything about it. It's cultural.

In the case of Egypt, they have the government that we *gave* them.

[SpaceMonkey]

Those Egyptians just can't understand our freedomz.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

In the case of Egypt, they have the government that we *gave* them.

"We" as in the British? The Soviet Union was influential after the Brits left.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

you are assuming. they have the government they deserve and they are not industrious enough to do anything about it. It's cultural.

You are a ****ing prick. Drop dead.

[Thorzdad]

Let's tone it down, gang.

[Shaddim]

Sorry, this is too awesome for words.

[OAW]

^^^^

Wow. Just wow. I'm having flashbacks to a recent article which showed how Fox News makes you stupid.

OAW

[subego]

Anderson Cooper Roughed Up

I actually have a lot of respect for the Coop, but I still can't help thinking "not the face!"

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

the Muslim Brotherhood...... Another peaceful part of the Muslim world.

My Way News - Jordan's opposition: Arabs will topple tyrants

It really is going to be war between Muslims and the west.

Another view of the Brotherhood.

Egyptian protests: Should we fear the Muslim Brotherhood? - By Shadi Hamid - Slate Magazine

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Another view of the Brotherhood.

Egyptian protests: Should we fear the Muslim Brotherhood? - By Shadi Hamid - Slate Magazine

Oh yeah. May Allah bless us all.

“After President Mubarak steps down and a provisional government is formed, there is a need to dissolve the peace treaty with Israel,” Rashad al-Bayoumi, a deputy leader of the outlawed movement, said on Japan’s NHTV.

Muslim Brotherhood seeks end to Israel treaty - Washington Times

The main stumbling block is Israel. In reality, Israel has as much to gain from the spread of democracy in the Middle East as the United States has. But Israel is unlikely to recognize its own best interests because the change is too sudden and carries too many risks. And some U.S. supporters of Israel are more rigid and ideological than Israelis themselves. Fortunately, Obama is not beholden to the religious right, which has carried on a veritable vendetta against him. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee is no longer monolithic or the sole representative of the Jewish community. The main danger is that the Obama administration will not adjust its policies quickly enough to the suddenly changed reality.

George Soros - Why Obama has to get Egypt right

[BadKosh]

Since Muslims don't care what lies they say to us infidels, I don't believe ANYTHING the Islamonazi's have to say. Democracy is an intellectual facet, not the violent takeover they practice. The uneducated masses easily fall for their BS.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Since Muslims don't care what lies they say to us infidels, I don't believe ANYTHING the Islamonazi's have to say. Democracy is an intellectual facet, not the violent takeover they practice. The uneducated masses easily fall for their BS.

How do you think this country was founded, and the violence it perpetuates? You're so gullible it's almost funny. Talk about falling for BS.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

A couple of weeks ago the government of Tunisia was over thrown and the government of Lebanon collapsed.

Currently there's some major protesting in the streets of Egypt and Yemen, and Jordan has begun to boil over as well.

Stability has obviously taken a major hit. The ramifications could potentially be huge geo-politically and economically.

What do you guys make of this ? Any predications ?

I confused. Is it a good or a bad thing that Middle Eastern people are overthrowing their dictators?

[Big Mac]

It's good if their protests are mostly peaceful and their movements create moderate governments. It's bad if their movements put Islamist (radical) governments in place, as in the Iranian revolution.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's good if their protests are mostly peaceful and their movements create moderate governments. It's bad if their movements put Islamist (radical) governments in place, as in the Iranian revolution.

Sadly, it doesn't matter what the people of Egypt want. They can be peaceful in their call, but there are plenty with other ideas.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

Sadly, it doesn't matter what the people of Egypt want. They can be peaceful in their call, but there are plenty with other ideas.

And there will always be those with other ideas. It's human nature. Some of us recognize the extremes on both sides of any issue, but eventually the extremes will be denounced, just like the dictatorship of Mubarak is now being called out. Those who have a grasp of history learn that; those that don't pick the crisis ju jour and use it to validate their belief of the moment.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

How do you think this country was founded, and the violence it perpetuates? You're so gullible it's almost funny. Talk about falling for BS.

We were fighting against foreign enemies, not islamonazis. You don't even grasp who the middle east players are or you wouldn't be making such stupid comments.

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

And there will always be those with other ideas. It's human nature. Some of us recognize the extremes on both sides of any issue, but eventually the extremes will be denounced, just like the dictatorship of Mubarak is now being called out. Those who have a grasp of history learn that; those that don't pick the crisis ju jour and use it to validate their belief of the moment.

This time they are being embraced, not denounced.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's good if their protests are mostly peaceful and their movements create moderate governments. It's bad if their movements put Islamist (radical) governments in place, as in the Iranian revolution.

I understand. Achieving the freedom for self-determination is good, as long as they make the choices we want them to make.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

It's good if their protests are mostly peaceful and their movements create moderate governments. It's bad if their movements put Islamist (radical) governments in place, as in the Iranian revolution.

Wiskedjak,
What BigMac said. And if by "what we want them to choose", you mean a government dedicated to peace and stability, then yes. In fact, i challenge you to find a rational human being who would NOT want that or would want the opposite.

I watched a report on the BBC yesterday where they implied that Egypt is rejecting Iran's claim that it an 'islamic revolution' (even the Muslim Brotherhood rejected the analogy). And that Egypt likens their protests and revolution to the anti-government protests in Iran last year.

If that is true, i for one am pleased.

What i would like to happen:
-Egypt's 80 million gets a democracy and a constitution.
-It protects the rights of it's minorities, and equality for all.
-It improves the economy and standard of living for Egyptians.
-It maintains peaceful relations with all it's neighbors (specifically Israel)
-It does not threaten Suez (by blocking it off, changing the agreements in place, etc)

What i do not want:
-Sectarian violence and policies against Egypt's minorities (mostly Christians)
-Sharia Law.
-Blocking off Suez.
-Troops into Sinai, threatening Israel.
-Anti-west or anti-anyone rhetoric which leads to instability, which is bad for people and businesses.

I am pleased to see the initiative come about from the inside for a change. And if it's democracy they want, and are willing to fight for it the way they have, i hope they get it. But i am cautious, and i hope they get a secular democracy which values stability and peace.

Cheers

[Wiskedjak]

sure. I'm just wondering how many people would prefer to see a US supported dictatorship in there rather than a democracy that might not be pro-US?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Since Muslims don't care what lies they say to us infidels, I don't believe ANYTHING the Islamonazi's have to say. Democracy is an intellectual facet, not the violent takeover they practice. The uneducated masses easily fall for their BS.

Preaching violence here, aren't they?

Mass planned at epicenter of protests as some banks open in Egypt - CNN.com

Talk about uneducated.

You remind me of when I was a child, in the early to late 1960s. It was fashionable then to panic at the thought of Communists coming to take over the U. S. Even as a child, when we had air raid drills and had to hide under our school desks, I realized the silliness of hiding under my desk. Then, when I became a young man, the Communists were going to take over again, if we let Viet Nam fail. More silliness, designed to fool the stupid and the gullible, both of which there was no shortage. Today it's the homosexuals, and the Muslims, and on an on, and there still is no shortage of the stupid and gullible.

[BadKosh]

You are not paying attention to world affairs. The Muslims are a threat. They turn every place they invade into a chaotic crap-hole where shiria law is the way and violence is the tool.

American Thinker: Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You are not paying attention to world affairs. The Muslims are a threat. They turn every place they invade into a chaotic crap-hole where shiria law is the way and violence is the tool.

American Thinker: Top ten reasons why sharia is bad for all societies

You're a fool if you don't think that *every* religion is capable of brutality without the control of strong secular law. All you need to do is look at Muslims in America to see that not everywhere they go becomes a chaotic crap-hole ... only those places where people are foolish enough to let religion have too much power.

[BadKosh]

Capable, or actually practicing it to a large amount?

"places where people are foolish enough to let religion have too much power."

Like Europe?, the UK? and the list goes on. Face it. We've been too weak in our response to them. Reminds me of Europe and the Nazi's.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Reminds me of Europe and the Nazi's.

Nazi's what?

[BadKosh]

WWII. Ever read about it? You need to move to the middle east and see how tolerant the Muslims are of others. Make sure they know you are a Christian or Jew. A Romanian named Vlad had a novel solution a few centuries back.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I understand. Achieving the freedom for self-determination is good, as long as they make the choices we want them to make.

You make me smile, you know that Wiskedjak? I see from your comments that you're here for my amusement. Let's try again: Self-determination is only good if the government that is spawned from it is a net positive for its citizens and the rest of the world by doing things like securing individual and minority rights and not seeking to harm (or demonize) neighboring countries, otherwise destabilize the region or export terrorism. Self-determination is bad if it has the opposite effects. Is that a difficult concept for you to comprehend?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You make me smile, you know that Wiskedjak? I see from your comments that you're here for my amusement.

I aim to please.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Let's try again: Self-determination is only good if the government that is spawned from it is a net positive for its citizens and the rest of the world by doing things like securing individual and minority rights and not seeking to harm (or demonize) neighboring countries, otherwise destabilize the region or export terrorism. Self-determination is bad if it has the opposite effects. Is that a difficult concept for you to comprehend?

There's a huge gap between a country that is pro-Western Society and one that exports terrorism. It is possible for a society to disagree with our way of life and foreign policies and yet still be peaceful.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You are not paying attention to world affairs. The Muslims are a threat. They turn every place they invade into a chaotic crap-hole where shiria law is the way and violence is the tool.

There is little or no Sharia law in the largest Muslim nations: Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey. All theocracy, not just Islamism, makes the world a craphole.

But keep on spewing those lies about Muslims. It's all you're capable of.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Self-determination is only good if the government that is spawned from it is a net positive for its citizens and the rest of the world by doing things like securing individual and minority rights and not seeking to harm (or demonize) neighboring countries, otherwise destabilize the region or export terrorism.

In other words, self-determination for the US is bad.

The people of Egypt has a right to self-determination. That right is not dependant on anything else. The middle east is a shit-hole because the people there lack self-determination, not because of it.

The US has been propping up the tyrannical, corrupt regime of Mubarak for too long.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

There is little or no Sharia law in the largest Muslim nations: Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey. All theocracy, not just Islamism, makes the world a craphole.

But keep on spewing those lies about Muslims. It's all you're capable of.

Your blind to the real world. Canada! LOL. I guess you just cannot connect the dots or see the 'progress' they have made in tricking the shallow and ignorant into thinking the Muslim's are the religion of peace despite their record of violence in recent decades. Where are the outspoken moderates? Dead mostly, or in hiding. your absolutism about theocracies is wrong.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

WWII. Ever read about it?

Yes. I was poking fun at your inability to correctly use an apostrophe.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

A Romanian named Vlad had a novel solution a few centuries back.

Solution to what?

[el chupacabra]

… .

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Your blind to the real world. Canada! LOL. I guess you just cannot connect the dots or see the 'progress' they have made in tricking the shallow and ignorant into thinking the Muslim's are the religion of peace despite their record of violence in recent decades. Where are the outspoken moderates? Dead mostly, or in hiding. your absolutism about theocracies is wrong.

Can't refute the fact that most large Muslim countries, like Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, don't have theocracies, so you just gloss over that with the same programmed rhetoric. It's your absolutism that's wrong. The Muslims who want to kill us are indeed vocal, but they are still a minority. I hereby guarantee that you will die of anything other than a terrorist attack, as have millions of people since 9/11. It must be sad to have such hatred for those who are different, based on irrationality.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Yes. I was poking fun at your inability to correctly use an apostrophe.



Solution to what?

Google Vlad the Impaler. Romania.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Can't refute the fact that most large Muslim countries, like Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, don't have theocracies, so you just gloss over that with the same programmed rhetoric. It's your absolutism that's wrong. The Muslims who want to kill us are indeed vocal, but they are still a minority. I hereby guarantee that you will die of anything other than a terrorist attack, as have millions of people since 9/11. It must be sad to have such hatred for those who are different, based on irrationality.

You are wrong about the impact the radical Muslims have in Pakistan. Many of the violent terrorist groups come from there. It doesn't have to be institutional, and government sponsored. I think you probably don't know what you're talking about again. You haven't noticed the rise of Muslim extremism, and how quiet the moderates (if there are any) are. you haven't been able to comprehend the number of countries having problems with the Muslims within their borders? The fact that the UK has Shiria courts should be an eye opener. It hasn't made anything any better.

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood has encited the riots and cloaked it with words like democracy. Where is the political infrastructure to pass on the power to anything other than a bunch of rioters? Free elections? HOW WHO can run them in Egypt? Where are the leaders, and where is their Declaration of Independence? Who will step in to fill the leadership void? The Brotherhood is taking advantage of the general ignorance of the populace as they destabilize Egypt, and put themselves in power.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You haven't noticed the rise of Muslim extremism, and how quiet the moderates (if there are any) are. you haven't been able to comprehend the number of countries having problems with the Muslims within their borders? The fact that the UK has Shiria courts should be an eye opener. It hasn't made anything any better.

I've never said I haven't noticed the rise of Muslim extremists. There are extremists in all groups. The U. S. has extremist religious nut jobs who would love nothing more than to turn this country into a theocracy. That isn't the point. The point, which is obviously hard for you grasp, is that no one is going to force me to become a Muslim, or an evangelical Christian, or whatever. They are indeed a minority; the problem you seem to have is that you, and many like you, are so insecure in your beliefs that you're afraid of them. They are a very vocal minority, but, in the overall scheme of things, they are still a minority. They may grab power in some countries, but that isn't going to affect my life; I've been around almost 64 years, and I didn't become a Communist during the ludicrous scare tactics our leaders used to justify our failure in Viet Nam. These fringe groups have been around since man first formed communities; some of us don't shit our pants every time we're told to.

In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood has encited the riots and cloaked it with words like democracy. Where is the political infrastructure to pass on the power to anything other than a bunch of rioters? Free elections? HOW WHO can run them in Egypt? Where are the leaders, and where is their Declaration of Independence? Who will step in to fill the leadership void? The Brotherhood is taking advantage of the general ignorance of the populace as they destabilize Egypt, and put themselves in power.

Let them put themselves in power. In fact, let the whole Middle East go to hell in a hand basket. If we're so goddamn smart, why do we need them anyway?

[BadKosh]

Its about OUR personal safety and that of our nation. Wake up! You won't HAVE to become Muslim, just about a head shorter....or is your neck blowing bubbles?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Let them put themselves in power. In fact, let the whole Middle East go to hell in a hand basket. If we're so goddamn smart, why do we need them anyway?

Oil. After the west doesn't need any more oil, they won't care.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Its about OUR personal safety and that of our nation. Wake up! You won't HAVE to become Muslim, just about a head shorter....or is your neck blowing bubbles?

A few thousand (actually there are only about 50 Al-Queda in Afghanistan), are going to take over the most powerful military, and country, in the world. You just don't get it. You've scared yourself to death, and you're not even dead yet.

When I came home from school, as a young child, having recently emigrated from Germany, my parents and I would constantly be amused, and amazed, at the bomb shelters that our neighbors were building, because of the Communists coming to drop nuclear bombs. We couldn't get anyone to understand that it wasn't going to happen, and today the same irrational paranoia is happening all over again, because of people like you, who turn your emotion (or, more accurately, the emotional propaganda you've been conditioned to accept as "fact,") into your own version of the facts.

You also no doubt believe that the approximately 15% of the country that is non-religious is working to take over your religious institutions and force you to become an atheist, or that the few percentage points of the country that LBGT, are going to convert your children to homosexuals. You poor, persecuted, soul.


Sad

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

A few thousand (actually there are only about 50 Al-Queda in Afghanistan), are going to take over the most powerful military, and country, in the world. You just don't get it. You've scared yourself to death, and you're not even dead yet.

When I came home from school, as a young child, having recently emigrated from Germany, my parents and I would constantly be amused, and amazed, at the bomb shelters that our neighbors were building, because of the Communists coming to drop nuclear bombs. We couldn't get anyone to understand that it wasn't going to happen, and today the same irrational paranoia is happening all over again, because of people like you, who turn your emotion (or, more accurately, the emotional propaganda you've been conditioned to accept as "fact,") into your own version of the facts.

Interesting. Yes of course, because the mother-country with fledgling military was such a threat to both the US and the USSR that either one of us might let loose a nuke on 'em. Y'all must've been amazed at how remarkably uninformed you and your family were to find out that bomb shelters were actually quite the rage across the globe throughout the 60's and that they might seem a trifle more relevant to... I don't know, the primary Cold War enemies? *Hint - they were building them in the Soviet Union too.

[OldManMac]

You're a funny guy, ebuddy. Hint; I don't live in the Soviet Union, and I can't help it if there lots of gullible people all over the globe.

There are lots of things that the rage at any given moment; do you simply jump on board, just because it's "in"?