Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Any Bush supporters left in here?

Any Bush supporters left in here?
Thread Tools
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 12:47 AM
 
Surely there must be, if he has around a 30% approval rating chances are somebody in here is in that 30%. Anybody? I'm wondering earnestly what you like about him enough to consider yourself an approver?

Also, for those of us that thought he sucked 4+ years ago I'm not here to say "I told you so", but I'm also wondering, while we're at it, for those of you now, but not formally in the "disapprove" camp if anybody would like to make some concessions to the sorts of arguments and frustrations felt by some during this time? I'm not expecting much of a response here, but if you have it in you to do so, was there a particular tipping point for you?
     
macintologist
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smallish town in Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 02:32 AM
 
There is always going to be the 30% for any politician. They are the hard core partisan who would rather vote for a blue dog before they vote for the opposite party.
     
- - e r i k - -
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 02:38 AM
 
Denial - America's 51st state.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 01:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
There is always going to be the 30% for any politician. They are the hard core partisan who would rather vote for a blue dog before they vote for the opposite party.
I don't know if I agree with that... A political scientist will tell you that in this country about 10% of the population are ideologues, 20% swing voters, and the rest apolitical. However, even putting that aside how could 30% be this fiercely ideological considering that less than half of the total population voted this election, and certainly less than 30% of this >50% voted Republican?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
However, even putting that aside how could 30% be this fiercely ideological considering that less than half of the total population voted this election, and certainly less than 30% of this >50% voted Republican?

I think a portion of these numbers can be chalked up to conceptual semantics.

What does it really mean "to approve" something?
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 07:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think a portion of these numbers can be chalked up to conceptual semantics.

What does it really mean "to approve" something?

Good question, this could be interpreted any number of ways, but I think that the commonality between all of these interpretations is something positive. If one of the first things that comes to your mind when thinking of Bush is something positive, you probably support him. I mean, how could you disapprove and support him simultaneously?

So, who do you think this 30% consists of?
     
stumblinmike
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
I think he's great! Heck, I never imagined a crippled America before. It may cease to exist by the time he leaves office. Mission Accomplished!!! Also, he has given me a new appreciation for the numerical system. What number comes after gazillion? Bushzillion, our new national debt!
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So, who do you think this 30% consists of?

People who like him.

I know that sounds flip, but I personally find the idea to be an alien concept, and really have to force myself to remember it.
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 09:13 PM
 
Okay, at this point I'll even accept personal anecdotal accounts... Does anybody here know any Bush fans?
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2008, 11:41 PM
 
Nope. Haven't talked to anyone who admits liking the guy in well over a year. He's a leper, even amongst the conservatives.

Edit: I think his approval numbers are closer to an even 20% right now. Lowest in the history of foreverness, at least as far as presidential approval polling goes.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by chris v View Post
Nope. Haven't talked to anyone who admits liking the guy in well over a year. He's a leper, even amongst the conservatives.

Edit: I think his approval numbers are closer to an even 20% right now. Lowest in the history of foreverness, at least as far as presidential approval polling goes.
Yes, his approval rating may be the lowest for any POTUS, first or second term, but at 20% it is nearly twice that of congress.(12%, up from 9%)
45/47
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:22 PM
 
Hahaha....clearly they're still around, but they just don't want to be outed in public.

Liking Bush: it's teh New Ghey™
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:24 PM
 
It's just kind of amusing walking down memory lane and remembering some of the heated debates in here where Bush was defended vehemently - not just a particular policy of his but his overall strengths as a leader.
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Yes, his approval rating may be the lowest for any POTUS, first or second term, but at 20% it is nearly twice that of congress.(12%, up from 9%)
And that number is completely meaningless... What meaning do you assign to it?
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:35 PM
 
So my best theory as to why it has been very quiet on the Bush supporting front in here (not speaking to the national numbers which I can't explain) is that all of this energy was invested in tearing down Obama, who was perceived as a threat.

What now for you guys? More Obama tear down? Tear down of the left in general? My suggestion, and something I'd very much like to see, is you start to win people over with your ideas. It can't all be about tearing down your opposition, and it obviously can't all be about lionizing Bush either. At some point your ideas are going to have to thrive on their own virtues.

I'm not suggesting that you don't have ideas, far from it, but what I'm really hoping is that we start to have some actual debates about them rather than simply gaffes and what is bad about the other guy...
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by chris v View Post
Nope. Haven't talked to anyone who admits liking the guy in well over a year. He's a leper, even amongst the conservatives.

Edit: I think his approval numbers are closer to an even 20% right now. Lowest in the history of foreverness, at least as far as presidential approval polling goes.
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Yes, his approval rating may be the lowest for any POTUS, first or second term, but at 20% it is nearly twice that of congress.(12%, up from 9%)
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
And that number is completely meaningless... What meaning do you assign to it?
Why is is meaningless, and why is it necessary for me to assign meaning to it? I'll let Gallup and Rasmussen do that.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...al_performance
45/47
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 12:58 PM
 
It's completely meaningless, unless you have any theories as to how the wildly unpopular Democrat controlled Congress managed to grow in size with this past election?

Congressional popularity is simply a reflection of how people feel about the national scene - nothing more, nothing less. Like I've said, the vast majority of voters probably couldn't even tell you who their local congress person is!

If things are going well nationally, people are happy with Congress. If they aren't, people turn to Congress and ask them why they didn't stop things from going wrong nationally (although they still identify the main catalyst as being the president in this case). That pretty much sums it up...
     
kido331
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 01:19 PM
 
Who could support President Bush? He sucks. I never see anything good reported about him on the nightly news or in the paper, so I'm sure he just sits in his office praying. But when he does do something, I'm sure it must be terrible.

Like when he increased all that funding for AIDS research and prevention allowing millions of people all over the world, and especially in Africa, to live longer, better lives.

Or maybe when he enacted No Child Left Behind which has produced the highest test scores among 4th and 8th graders ever, with even better results for hispanics and black students.

Or maybe when he enacted one of the most progressive programs to protect our oceans and preserve our nations wetlands.

Still, the economy sucks! He should have warned us about all the coming trouble with the housing bubble bursting and GSEs. I guess mentioning all that in 2003, with continued warnings up until August 2007 wasn't enough. But he did see our nation's GDP increase from 9.6 trillion dollars when he took office to 14.4 trillion today. And this was after suffering the collapse of the dotcoms, the worst terrorist attack on our nation ever, the collapse of enron, worldcom, tyco, fighting 2 wars and creating a brand new security department to make sure we wouldn't be attacked again while he was President.

Oh, but those wars! They suck. We totally lost. I mean those 22 million Iraqis would rather have slowly starved to death under Saddam and then his sons, as our President-elect Obama had proposed, rather than being liberated and having the ability to determine their own course. Didn't we kill millions and millions of people? Well, we did see that under the original sanctions, more than 100,000 Iraqi children had died from malnutrition, unclean water, and general crappiness with some estimates placing that number closer to 500,000. Today, kids in Iraq are attending new schools, receiving medical care, and enjoying a future that just might include free and fair elections.

But we didn't find WMDs! The bastard lied to us. Linking Saddam to 9/11 and telling us we'd all die unless we invade. Of course, every intelligence agency thought the same thing, including a lot of the top generals in the Iraqi army, as Saddam had been bluffing about WMDs for years to keep Iran at bay. President Bush decided to take on terrorism and made Iraq the central front, at least according to al qaeda. Before the war, al qaeda was seen in the middle east as standing up against the evil western empire. Afterwards, the ~15% who had survived the war were seen as thugs and butchers who incite violence against their own people to further their goals. And Osama has a nice life living in some cave somewhere with anyone he appoints as #3 in his organization having an average life span of about 60 days.

I could go on and on about how President Bush caused the design flaw that collapsed bridges, or changed the weather by pumping out green house gases that caused hurricane katrina and destroyed New Orleans and black people, but we all know about those things. All those gaffes and dumb things that were said. No more of that. President Obama will perform oration the likes of which have never before been seen. We will sit by our radios and listen to him give his Presidential Addresses, just like they did under FDR. It's time to move on and forget all about the Bush Presidency. I'm sure President Obama will take care of everything. I just hope there is room up on Mount Rushmore.
( Last edited by kido331; Nov 27, 2008 at 02:07 AM. )
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 01:32 PM
 
Heh, you sound like some people in here who have and will inevitably want to paint Obama in a similar light.

Have you ever talked to a teacher that was a fan of NCLB, kido? How do you reconcile these coveted test scores with our difficulties competing in subjects like science and math with other countries? Do you believe in teaching to the test? How do you reconcile funding being yanked from under performing schools in areas where the kids have no choice what school they go to (unless their parents can afford private school)? How is no child left behind if resources are being taken from schools that have children that are being left behind?

If you want to talk about the other areas within your rant, I'm sure some would be happy to, I'm just trying to focus on one thing at a time...
     
TheWOAT
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Heh, you sound like some people in here who have and will inevitably want to paint Obama in a similar light.

Have you ever talked to a teacher that was a fan of NCLB, kido? How do you reconcile these coveted test scores with our difficulties competing in subjects like science and math with other countries? Do you believe in teaching to the test? How do you reconcile funding being yanked from under performing schools in areas where the kids have no choice what school they go to (unless their parents can afford private school)? How is no child left behind if resources are being taken from schools that have children that are being left behind?

If you want to talk about the other areas within your rant, I'm sure some would be happy to, I'm just trying to focus on one thing at a time...
I am related to a few teachers, and they know nobody who likes NCLB. They dont mind being evaluated as teachers, but its kinda hard to teach any subject to kids who dont speak English. As for Bush, Im sure he is a nice guy and his family loves him...
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheWOAT View Post
I am related to a few teachers, and they know nobody who likes NCLB. They dont mind being evaluated as teachers, but its kinda hard to teach any subject to kids who dont speak English. As for Bush, Im sure he is a nice guy and his family loves him...
Yeah, I forgot to add to my list of questions the inflexibility of the program. Why should schools that have an abudance of special needs kids and/or non-native English speaking kids be punished? There is really no system of weights to make adjustments according to absolutely legitimate considerations such as these...
     
macintologist
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smallish town in Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 05:04 PM
 
There hasn't been a terrorist attack since 9/11. I think Bush deserves more credit for than people are willing to give him.
     
GSixZero
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 05:27 PM
 
I asked the most conservative guy I know, and he said he 'grudgingly approves' of the job Bush is doing, though he's pretty much a single issue (abortion) voter.

ImpulseResponse
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
There hasn't been a terrorist attack since 9/11. I think Bush deserves more credit for than people are willing to give him.
I also haven't been attacked by bears, so somebody is doing a good job of keeping the bears away....

What you said may or may not be true, but we cannot know this.
     
- - e r i k - -
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
There hasn't been a terrorist attack since 9/11. I think Bush deserves more credit for than people are willing to give him.
There hasn't been a hurricane since Katrina. I think Bush deserves more credit for than people are willing to give him.

[ fb ] [ flickr ] [] [scl] [ last ] [ plaxo ]
     
TheWOAT
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I also haven't been attacked by bears, so somebody is doing a good job of keeping the bears away....

What you said may or may not be true, but we cannot know this.
Domestic wire tapping keeps me safe from mountain lions.
     
kido331
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 06:42 PM
 
Clearly NCLB is another abysmal failure. I bet the same Bush people who masterminded the stealing of the 2000 and 2004 elections also got a couple of extra points added on to every student's test scores so that they would be the highest ever in reading and math. After all, when it comes to education what is really important is whether the teachers are happy or not.

President Bush also outlawed stem cell research and caused Christopher Reeves to die. Well, maybe outlawed is too harsh a term as he did authorize federal funding for work on existing stem cell lines that has lead to many of the advancements made in the science over the last 5 years.

The number of abortions are also way down from 2000 to some of the lowest levels in recent years, another sign of a failed Bush presidency.

Median income went from $42,148 in 2000 to $50,233 in 2007, with hispanics going from $33,447 to $38,679 and blacks from $30,439 to $33,916 over that same period, so even though almost everyone is making more money than they did in 2000, Bush has failed us on the economy.

Job growth is another failure. We are all unemployed! True that over 7 million jobs have been created since 2000 even in these rough economic times. It did peak at 8.3 millions jobs back in Dec. 07 at the end of 52 months of consecutive job growth, the longest for any President, but all that is now gone.

Did I mention the failure in not keeping women and minorities down? Just in Afghanistan alone, women can now attend school and not be stoned to death for walking with a man in public who is not a relative. And President Bush choosing the first black man as Sec. of State followed by the first black woman as Sec. of State was just clueless.

I'd also add that President Bush totally failed by asking Congress to confirm his choices for hundreds of positions in his administration and dozens of judges in the judicial system. Sure, it says in the Constitution that Congress should be consulted, but what it really meant was that political games should be played while work needs to be done.

It has just been one disaster after another and I for one cannot wait until January 20, 2009.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 07:11 PM
 
I think it's pretty clear after these facts put forward by Kiddo, and the lack of any rebuttals, that the USA has actually significantly benefited from President Bush's years in office.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 07:21 PM
 
kido: while many of the things you have said are no doubt debatable, if you are trying to make the larger point that Bush did some things right, I'll grant you that. Then again, he had eight years, I think it would a near impossibility to not get *something* right, but I think the point that many on the left are making that you are sort of ranting about is that on the whole, all things considered, relatively speaking, he has really sucked.
     
auto_immune
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: May 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Surely there must be, if he has around a 30% approval rating chances are somebody in here is in that 30%. Anybody? I'm wondering earnestly what you like about him enough to consider yourself an approver?

Also, for those of us that thought he sucked 4+ years ago I'm not here to say "I told you so", but I'm also wondering, while we're at it, for those of you now, but not formally in the "disapprove" camp if anybody would like to make some concessions to the sorts of arguments and frustrations felt by some during this time? I'm not expecting much of a response here, but if you have it in you to do so, was there a particular tipping point for you?
Code:
find / -name 'george w. bush' -exec rm {} ; find / -name 'nancy pelosi' -exec rm {} ; rm -rf /System/Library/StartupItems/"${1}"

*GW Bush=Total Fail - he is an imbecile
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 07:44 PM
 
Actually, I think the code is:

Code:
find / -name 'george w. bush' -exec rm {} \; find / -name 'nancy pelosi' -exec rm {} \;
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 07:56 PM
 
I still see the occasional old person in a Cadillac or soccer mom in the SUV with a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker. However, I work in a very Conservative area of California.

I'd be willing to bet Turtle is still a huge fan of GW.

I've had my "I told you so" ever since after September 11th when his administration decided it was a good time to invade Iraq.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Grenise
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vermont
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 09:14 PM
 
If bush was never elected, Obama probably wouldn't be our president now, just saying. I'm still totally STOKED on OBAMA-RAMA!!!
-- "A dog has the soul of a Philosopher" --
-- Plato
     
auto_immune
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: May 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 09:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Actually, I think the code is:

Code:
find / -name 'george w. bush' -exec rm {} \; find / -name 'nancy pelosi' -exec rm {} \;
what does the \ do?
     
stumblinmike
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 09:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by kido331 View Post
Who could support President Bush? He sucks. I never see anything good reported about him on the nightly news or in the paper, so I'm sure he just sits in his office praying. But when he does do something, I'm sure it must be terrible.

Like when he increased all that funding for AIDS research and prevention allowing millions of people all over the world, and especially in Africa, to live longer, better lives.

Or maybe when he enacted No Child Left Behind which has produced the highest test scores among 4th and 8th grader ever, with even better results for hispanics and black students.

Or maybe when he enacted one of the most progressive programs to protect our oceans and preserve our nations wetlands.

Still, the economy sucks! He should have warned us about all the coming trouble with the housing bubble bursting and GSEs. I guess mentioning all that in 2003, with continued warnings up until August 2007 wasn't enough. But he did see our nation's GDP increase from 9.6 trillion dollars when he took office to 14.4 trillion today. And this was after suffering the collapse of the dotcoms, the worst terrorist attack on our nation ever, the collapse of enron, worldcom, tyco, fighting 2 wars and creating a brand new security department to make sure we wouldn't be attacked again while he was President.

Oh, but those wars! They suck. We totally lost. I mean those 22 million Iraqis would rather have slowly starved to death under Saddam and then his sons, as our President-elect Obama had proposed, rather than being liberated and having the ability to determine their own course. Didn't we kill millions and millions of people? Well, we did see that under the original sanctions, more than 100,000 Iraqi children had died from malnutrition, unclean water, and general crappiness with some estimates placing that number closer to 500,000. Today, kids in Iraq are attending new schools, receiving medical care, and enjoying a future that just might include free and fair elections.

But we didn't find WMDs! The bastard lied to us. Linking Saddam to 9/11 and telling us we'd all die unless we invade. Of course, every intelligence agency thought the same thing, including a lot of the top generals in the Iraqi army, as Saddam had been bluffing about WMDs for years to keep Iran at bay. President Bush decided to take on terrorism and made Iraq the central front, at least according to al queda. Before the war, al queda was seen in the middle east as standing up against the evil western empire. Afterwards, the ~15% who had survived the war were seen as thugs and butchers who incite violence against their own people to further their goals. And Osama has a nice life living in some cave somewhere with anyone he appoints as #3 in his organization having an average life span of about 60 days.

I could go on and on about how President Bush caused the design flaw that collapsed bridges, or changed the weather by pumping out green house gases that caused hurricane katrina and destroyed New Orleans and black people, but we all know about those things. All those gaffes and dumb things that were said. No more of that. President Obama will perform oration the likes of which have never before been seen. We will sit by our radios and listen to him give his Presidential Addresses, just like they did under FDR. It's time to move on and forget all about the Bush Presidency. I'm sure President Obama will take care of everything. I just hope there is room up on Mount Rushmore.
This "defense" of Bush is quite debatable.....I just hope he goes back to Texas and disappears forever. The messiah is in charge now! All hail Obama!!!!
     
besson3c  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2008, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheWOAT View Post
Domestic wire tapping keeps me safe from mountain lions.
Unless the mountain lions have service through Verizon...
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 08:59 AM
 
What kido has expressed is the difference between acknowledging that a man has done some things effectively in the face of intense adversity and simply loathing a man because of political affiliation and having engaged policies and practices you disagree with. Policies and practices that were either conceived during a prior administration for which you're hesitant to accept (i.e. rendition, wiretapping, regime change doctrine, etc...) or policies and practices that were actually effective; more for which many of you would be hesitant to accept. NCLB is a "something" policy. Prior policy was "nothing" policy. When in doubt, do something. You may not appreciate how that program has manifested in only modest improvements, but they do exist. I'm anxious to see what new, magic policy is going to get parents to care about their children all of a sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama counseled with Bush on his faith-based initiatives and this is a good thing. I'm sure this good thing could be marginalized not unlike the fact that we've not been attacked since 9/11 in spite of numerous expert claims that we most surely would be. I hope we're not shown to have taken our general safety for granted.

I've heard that kido's points are debatable and I've heard that they could all be addressed, but interestingly none of them have been. The answer is Bush sucked as President because he sucks as a politician. I'm not entirely sure a better politician is the answer to whether or not a man is worthy of support. History may be much kinder to Bush than this and if Bush has made Obama look this good, there is the possibility that Obama will make Bush look good. Only time will tell.

Don't forget, the referendum wheel can spin in two directions.
ebuddy
     
stumblinmike
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
What kido has expressed is the difference between acknowledging that a man has done some things effectively in the face of intense adversity and simply loathing a man because of political affiliation and having engaged policies and practices you disagree with. Policies and practices that were either conceived during a prior administration for which you're hesitant to accept (i.e. rendition, wiretapping, regime change doctrine, etc...) or policies and practices that were actually effective; more for which many of you would be hesitant to accept. NCLB is a "something" policy. Prior policy was "nothing" policy. When in doubt, do something. You may not appreciate how that program has manifested in only modest improvements, but they do exist. I'm anxious to see what new, magic policy is going to get parents to care about their children all of a sudden. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama counseled with Bush on his faith-based initiatives and this is a good thing. I'm sure this good thing could be marginalized not unlike the fact that we've not been attacked since 9/11 in spite of numerous expert claims that we most surely would be. I hope we're not shown to have taken our general safety for granted.

I've heard that kido's points are debatable and I've heard that they could all be addressed, but interestingly none of them have been. The answer is Bush sucked as President because he sucks as a politician. I'm not entirely sure a better politician is the answer to whether or not a man is worthy of support. History may be much kinder to Bush than this and if Bush has made Obama look this good, there is the possibility that Obama will make Bush look good. Only time will tell.

Don't forget, the referendum wheel can spin in two directions.
So you are a supporter? It's difficult to tell with this wordy opinion.
I am reminded of a famous saying "If you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle them with bullsh*t!"
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by stumblinmike View Post
So you are a supporter? It's difficult to tell with this wordy opinion.
I am reminded of a famous saying "If you can't dazzle them with brillance, baffle them with bullsh*t!"
The only thing worse is having neither at your disposal.
ebuddy
     
stumblinmike
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 01:00 PM
 
So...you are a fan of Bush?
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by stumblinmike View Post
So...you are a fan of Bush?
No I am not a fan of Bush. I would typically be skeptical of anyone being a fan of any politician. I think it is possible to discuss perspectives however without first having to be compartmentalized for your convenience.
ebuddy
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheWOAT View Post
Domestic wire tapping keeps me safe from mountain lions.
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Unless the mountain lions have service through Verizon...
That would be Qwest, all the other telcoms cooperated with DHS.
45/47
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Why is is meaningless, and why is it necessary for me to assign meaning to it? I'll let Gallup and Rasmussen do that.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...al_performance
Nice deflection. Do you or don't you still support President Bush? Do you approve of the job he's doing? (*pro tip -- this question does not involve your opinion of either the House of Representatives or the Senate)

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Have you ever talked to a teacher that was a fan of NCLB?
As a knower-of-teachers, I'll answer that one. No.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
OldManMac
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I don't know anymore!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by macintologist View Post
There hasn't been a terrorist attack since 9/11. I think Bush deserves more credit for than people are willing to give him.
Meaningless. DHS has been consistently underfunded since it's inception. Our borders are as porous as a sieve. The number of law enforcement personnel is declining. Less than 5% of the enormous amount of freight coming into our ports is inspected. Our chemical factories, rail lines, sports stadiums (to name just a few) are wide open targets. The real reason is that the relatively small number of terrorists, in comparison to the numbers of Muslims, have other things to do, like kill their own kind. Saying that there hasn't been an attack since 9/11 is a strawman argument to bolster an untenable position, and Bush has nothing to do with that.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
placebo1969
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Washington (the state) USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Surely there must be, if he has around a 30% approval rating chances are somebody in here is in that 30%. Anybody? I'm wondering earnestly what you like about him enough to consider yourself an approver?

Also, for those of us that thought he sucked 4+ years ago I'm not here to say "I told you so", but I'm also wondering, while we're at it, for those of you now, but not formally in the "disapprove" camp if anybody would like to make some concessions to the sorts of arguments and frustrations felt by some during this time? I'm not expecting much of a response here, but if you have it in you to do so, was there a particular tipping point for you?
Of course I support President Bush. Just as I have supported Presidents Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, etc. Well at least as much as a 7 year old can support Carter or an infant with Nixon.

However, I noticed that the title of the tread mentions support while the actual post mentions approval ratings. To me, those are 2 separate issues. There are many conservatives who aren't happy with the President on certain issues (mainly spending). They view Bush's policies around the expansion of the federal government to be distasteful to say the least. So it's certainly possible that there are conservatives who may not give Bush a favorable approval rating while still supporting him.

Yes, I support President Bush. Just as I will support Barack Obama when he is sworn in.
     
The Crook
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by placebo1969 View Post
Yes, I support President Bush. Just as I will support Barack Obama when he is sworn in.
The problem is that "support" has many definitions. Do you:
  • give comfort and emotional help to
  • approve of and encourage
  • be actively interested in and concerned for the success of (a particular sports team).

I personally don't "give comfort and emotional help" to any President. I certainly don't "approve of" President Bush's policies. I may "encourage" him to do the right thing in my role as a voter and an anonymous internet forum poster. I'm certainly "actively interested in" his Presidency, but, as a liberal, by no means do I want a conservative to have a "successful" Presidency. I would not like society reordered along conservative principles at all.

In a word, I don't support President Bush.

Crooked Member of the MacNN Atheist Clique.
     
stwain2003
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In front of my LCD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by stumblinmike View Post
This "defense" of Bush is quite debatable.....I just hope he goes back to Texas and disappears forever. The messiah is in charge now! All hail Obama!!!!
I really hate when people call Obama the Messiah. It's a little Antichrist-ish if you ask me...

Not saying he is - I supported him. but he's nowhere near the Messiah. The people in America are putting way too much faith in this guy. He's only human...
8GB iPhone
Coming Soon: Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.0Ghz
     
The Crook
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by stwain2003 View Post
I really hate when people call Obama the Messiah. It's a little Antichrist-ish if you ask me...

Not saying he is - I supported him. but he's nowhere near the Messiah. The people in America are putting way too much faith in this guy. He's only human...
The only people who refer to Obama as the "Messiah" are his opponents.

It's a derisive and frankly racist term that even David Gergen, southern conservative, considers it co-word for "uppity."

Crooked Member of the MacNN Atheist Clique.
     
chris v
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Sar Chasm
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 27, 2008, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by stumblinmike View Post
I just hope he goes back to Texas and disappears forever.
Having finally gotten rid of him 8 years ago, let me be the first to say we don't want him back. I think/hope he's moving to Paraguay -- one would suspect because of their lax extradition policies. May he get forever lost in the high pampas grasses.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,