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clarkgoble · Oct 7, 2003, 10:35 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...058298,00.html

Yasser Arafat has suffered a mild heart attack but the Palestinian leadership has sought to keep his health problems secret for fear it will "create panic".

If Arafat dies, I wonder how many will see it as a Mossad or CIA assassination?

BlackGriffen · Oct 7, 2003, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
[url]If Arafat dies, I wonder how many will see it as a Mossad or CIA assassination?

It depends on if they find the fragments from the firecrackers.

</tasteless humor>

BG

ambush · Oct 7, 2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...058298,00.html

Yasser Arafat has suffered a mild heart attack but the Palestinian leadership has sought to keep his health problems secret for fear it will "create panic".

If Arafat dies, I wonder how many will see it as a Mossad or CIA assassination?

Please don't underestimate the Mossad and the CIA. You have *no idea* how powerful they are. No idea.

Spliffdaddy · Oct 7, 2003, 11:22 PM

no idea.

none.

spacefreak · Oct 7, 2003, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
It depends on if they find the fragments from the firecrackers.

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Meneldil · Oct 7, 2003, 11:26 PM

In terms of an assassination, there are plenty of ways to induce a heart attack- and really, that's the way I would go if I were trying to kill him. Think of what would happen if it was obvious Mossad did it.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 7, 2003, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by Meneldil:
Think of what would happen if it was obvious Mossad did it.

The same thing the Arab 'street' and Palestinian terrorists would do whether he lives or dies: whine, moan, complain, and blow up women and babies. Arafat's natural death or his well-deserved assassination would change nothing.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 7, 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Please don't underestimate the Mossad and the CIA. You have *no idea* how powerful they are. No idea.

You mean all those times the CIA tried to whack Castro? hah. They didn't look real powerful there.

Wiskedjak · Oct 7, 2003, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
Please don't underestimate the Mossad and the CIA. You have *no idea* how powerful they are. No idea.

I would argue that the Mossad is infinitely more powerful than the CIA. The CIA at least answers to Congress (even through they've found ways around that in the past). The Mossad answers to no one.

I already suspect Mossad involvement. Given the number of time they've already tried to assasinate Arafat, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that this was simply the latest stroke (no pun intended) of luck for Arafat.

macvillage.net · Oct 8, 2003, 12:02 AM

Many people die of "Heart Attacks".

Several forms of cancer can result in it. So can some blood disorders, complications with medications (which could in theory be poison).

My father's uncle died of "Heart Failure", from what was really his liver failing due to some bad medication.

His death certificate said "Heart Failure"... but that wasn't the initial cause.

That goes back to .... "nobody died from cancer". It's true, cancer never killed anyone. People die of complications of cancer. Heart attacks, viruses, infections, pneumonia.

SO it's very possible to use an assisination like this. It would be a very good way to do it.

The article itself sounds a bit bogus (as if the Guardian is a reputable source). He didn't appear that weaker than usual in the video I saw. Don't see other reports that match this.

Secondly, why would he have to leave. Medical aid could be brought to him for the most part.

This article sounds like mostly suspician, and partly just trying to setup Israel a bit.

If it was legitimate, this would be everywhere.

Now what's it going to take for Sharon to get a severe stroke, leaving him as a veggie... to rot. If that happens, and this is true there may be a roadmap. One can hope.

quandarry · Oct 8, 2003, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by ambush:
Please don't underestimate the Mossad and the CIA. You have *no idea* how powerful they are. No idea.

wasn't it the c.i.a. who tried the exploding cigar thing on castro...hehe...

the c.i.a. has become a bunch of bumbling bureaucrats...think keystone cops!

AutoJC · Oct 8, 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...058298,00.html

Yasser Arafat has suffered a mild heart attack but the Palestinian leadership has sought to keep his health problems secret for fear it will "create panic".

If Arafat dies, I wonder how many will see it as a Mossad or CIA assassination?

Arafat should know better than to try to **** camels at the age of 74.

That's what they are really trying to hide from the public.

clarkgoble · Oct 8, 2003, 03:28 PM

His people are now denying the charges. (And what's with "it's only at that Guardian" -- try Google News) However everyone admits that his health is not good.

macvillage.net · Oct 8, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
His people are now denying the charges. (And what's with "it's only at that Guardian" -- try Google News) However everyone admits that his health is not good.

He has Parkinson's. that's well known.

Problem is the disease has it's ups and downs. Someone with moderate stages can look like they will die in 24 hours, and be fine a few days later. The pope is a good example. He gets weak, then he looks stronger, then weak again... and it slowly goes down hill until they die.

Sadly, their minds are sharp as ever. It's a real sad disease, becuase they watch their bodies die. It's not like a disease where everything goes. You can be sharp as a whip, and look dead.

moki · Oct 9, 2003, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
The same thing the Arab 'street' and Palestinian terrorists would do whether he lives or dies: whine, moan, complain, and blow up women and babies. Arafat's natural death or his well-deserved assassination would change nothing.

I don't wish death on either Arafat or Sharon, but I will say that the middle east peace process probably would go quite a bit smoother if neither of them was involved.

The only real problem here is the power vacuum that would be left in the PA. Is there anyone else who could legitimately take over and have the support of the people?

macvillage.net · Oct 9, 2003, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by moki:
I don't wish death on either Arafat or Sharon, but I will say that the middle east peace process probably would go quite a bit smoother if neither of them was involved.

I do... I've said it before, and I will say it again.

The best thing that could happen is all military/political leaders on both sides have a meeting in 1 room, and the building is blown up, and the rubble is burnt and burried.

It would save lives.

They could use Palestinian Bomb Belts wrapped around Israeli missles to do the bombing... then Israeli bulldozers to fill in the hole. That's good teamwork.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 12:25 AM

eklipse · Oct 10, 2003, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
I do... I've said it before, and I will say it again.

The best thing that could happen is all military/political leaders on both sides have a meeting in 1 room, and the building is blown up, and the rubble is burnt and burried.

It would save lives.

They could use Palestinian Bomb Belts wrapped around Israeli missles to do the bombing... then Israeli bulldozers to fill in the hole. That's good teamwork.

Jacket · Oct 10, 2003, 12:34 PM

i hope arafat kicks the bucket soon. perhaps then progress can be made and Israel can be more secure.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 12:56 PM

Did any of you catch that WSJ article on the real Arafat? Here's the old thread about it.

I won't repost the text b/c it's long. Basically, the KGB created Arafat. He's a fraud, a terrorist, and a crook. He's rich and gets richer while the Palestinians starve and live in poverty. He exploits them and steals their money.

This guy is a loser. No wonder progress is so stalled. It serves his interests to continue the conflict and stay in power.

lil'babykitten · Oct 10, 2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Jacket:
perhaps then progress can be made and Israel can be more secure.

Progress with or without Arafat is not going to happen.

lil'babykitten · Oct 10, 2003, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Basically, the KGB created Arafat. He's a fraud, a terrorist, and a crook. He's rich and gets richer while the Palestinians starve and live in poverty. He exploits them and steals their money.

This guy is a loser. No wonder progress is so stalled. It serves his interests to continue the conflict and stay in power.

Yeah, I mean look at all those ravish things he has brought with that money. A nice state of the art building where he does all his conniving-the bullet holes and half collapsed ceilings are all part of the 'design'. He is also known to spend it on holiday visits to remote islands every weekend as well.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah, I mean look at all those ravish things he has brought with that money. A nice state of the art building where he does all his conniving-the bullet holes and half collapsed ceilings are all part of the 'design'. He is also known to spend it on holiday visits to remote islands every weekend as well.

Just part of the image. Yet you don't deny that he's rich. It's common knowledge and well-documented that he's rolling in loot.

He's a loser and terrible for the Palestinian cause, plain and simple.

lil'babykitten · Oct 10, 2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Just part of the image. Yet you don't deny that he's rich. It's common knowledge and well-documented that he's rolling in loot.

Part of the image? what's he doing with all the money he apparently has? if the news reports are true he'll be dead soon anyway. Kind of a waste isn't it?!

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
He's a loser and terrible for the Palestinian cause, plain and simple.

Probably true, but the Palestinians don't agree with you. And Arafat is their leader after all.

eklipse · Oct 10, 2003, 01:23 PM

Sharon ain't doin' much better

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 01:27 PM

hahah!

lil'babykitten · Oct 10, 2003, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by eklipse:
Sharon ain't doin' much better

ROFLMAO!

moki · Oct 10, 2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah, I mean look at all those ravish things he has brought with that money. A nice state of the art building where he does all his conniving-the bullet holes and half collapsed ceilings are all part of the 'design'. He is also known to spend it on holiday visits to remote islands every weekend as well.

You're missing his wife's frequent shopping sprees in Europe, and his children globe-trotting as well. The fact is, there is no accounting of the money that goes into the PA.

from: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...185141225.html

Arafat said to be wiring millions to Europe

July 15 2002

Senior Palestinian officials, including Yasser Arafat, have reportedly transferred tens of millions of dollars to personal European bank accounts for their use if the Palestinian Authority collapses.

The claim is made in a report forwarded to Washington by Israel, but snippets have appeared in Arabic newspapers published in Jordan and France and in the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth, which yesterday reported that Mr Arafat recently transferred $US5.1million ($9.1million) in aid money from Saudi Arabia to his private bank account in Paris for the benefit of his wife, Suha, and his daughter, Zahawa, who live there.

His deputy, Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, allegedly moved $US70million to various European bank accounts, reportedly in the name of his brother, a rich businessman with interests in the Arab Gulf states.

There are also claims that Mr Arafat has been paying excessively high salaries to some of his aides, including his spokesman, Marwan Kanafani, who is said to be receiving $US40,000 a month

Israel's leaking of such claims appears to be aimed at damaging Mr Arafat's international standing and as a justification for withholding about $US500million in tax revenues it has collected on behalf of the Palestinian Authority.

Before the start of the second Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation in September 2000 such funds were reimbursed to the authority. But

Israel claims that its military raids in the West Bank this year uncovered evidence, including papers signed by Mr Arafat, directly implicating the Palestinian Authority in terrorism.

The Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, has sent word to Washington that Israel will not turn over the money until the Palestinian security forces, which he says are "infected with terrorism", are disbanded.

moki · Oct 10, 2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
I do... I've said it before, and I will say it again.

The best thing that could happen is all military/political leaders on both sides have a meeting in 1 room, and the building is blown up, and the rubble is burnt and burried.

It would save lives.

They could use Palestinian Bomb Belts wrapped around Israeli missles to do the bombing... then Israeli bulldozers to fill in the hole. That's good teamwork.

Sadly, you're probably correct.

Jacket · Oct 10, 2003, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Progress with or without Arafat is not going to happen.

things should be a lot easier with him gone.

Logic · Oct 10, 2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Jacket:
things should be a lot easier with him gone.

Sharon would still be around, and that means that things won't change.

Jacket · Oct 10, 2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
Sharon would still be around, and that means that things won't change.

he's showing some backbone now... i say he should be driving the terrorists out!

Logic · Oct 10, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Jacket:
he's showing some backbone now... i say he should be driving the terrorists out!

So you think that his actions have made the Israel safer???

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
So you think that his actions have made the Israel safer???

Weakness only invites more terror. Taking no military action would be worse.

Logic · Oct 10, 2003, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Weakness only invites more terror. Taking no military action would be worse.

So you mean that the USA is weaker(or rather was) than they have ever been because of 9/11?

Interesting theory..........

macvillage.net · Oct 10, 2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Weakness only invites more terror. Taking no military action would be worse.

Your right it would be worse. There could be peace.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
So you mean that the USA is weaker(or rather was) than they have ever been because of 9/11?

Interesting theory..........

no. Taking attacks and not doing anything to militarily fight the terrorists is weakness. Also, appearing weak invites attacks.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Your right it would be worse. There could be peace.

you infidels misunderstand.
If attacked, no military action to fight the terrorists is weakness. Weakness invites more terrorism.

macvillage.net · Oct 10, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
you infidels misunderstand.
If attacked, no military action to fight the terrorists is weakness. Weakness invites more terrorism.

Everytime Israel slows down... so does the terrorism. Even Sharon said that. Then the very next day, he ordered several attacks.

The one time they attempted a few arrests, it slowed down for quite a while.

Yea... your right. Peace would be a bad thing.

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Everytime Israel slows down... so does the terrorism.

I've never noticed that trend.

Even Sharon said that.

and you'll produce legit source quotes on that when pigs fly and hell freezes over.

Take your Jihad Newsletter crap somewhere else, Robert.

Yea... your right. Peace would be a bad thing.

stop stretching my words. Peace is good, but nothing Israel does will stop Hamas and other terrorists. There has to be change within Palestinian society whereby they fundamentally choose to crush terrorism and its supporters.

moki · Oct 10, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
So you think that his actions have made the Israel safer???

The odd thing is, Sharon is doing what the majority of the people in his country want. The majority of Israelis are disgusted with the suicide bombings that target innocent civilians, and they want them ended. At any cost.

Even though the US is painted as the "bad guy" by much of the Arab world for its relationship with Israel, the Bush administration has been leaning hard on Israel to no take the gloves off and bring the military full-bore on the Palestinian militants.

Let's face it, if Israel used the same tactics the Palestinians used -- intentionally targeting men, women, children, whomever -- with the Israel military superiority, it would just be an utter bloodbath.

Let's hope the situation never gets that far, and that the leash Sharon et al. are on isn't let go of.

petehammer · Oct 10, 2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Uday's Carcass:
Peace is good, but nothing Israel does will stop Hamas and other terrorists.

Huh? So why do they do anything? Isn't your entire argument that "force prevents terrorism"? How can that be true if you also state Israel's force is doing nothing to stop terrorists?

Jacket · Oct 10, 2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Your right it would be worse. There could be peace.

you can't have peace by sitting on your ass doing nothing when a bunch of hateful terrorists (some call them Palestinians) only want to kill the Jews.

peace comes by removing the terrorist element.

petehammer · Oct 10, 2003, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Jacket:
you can't have peace by sitting on your ass doing nothing when a bunch of hateful terrorists (some call them Palestinians) only want to kill the Jews.

peace comes by removing the terrorist element.

Wow.

What about a bunch of hateful jews who only want to kill the arabs? It's a two way street.

Obviously, not all jews or all arabs live to hate. But there are groups of both who do, and they will continue to want to destroy eachother. I am able to recognize the situation for what it is, why are you turning a blind eye toward the fact that certain Israelis are killing Palestinians?

-p

Uday's Carcass · Oct 10, 2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by petehammer:
Huh? So why do they do anything? Isn't your entire argument that "force prevents terrorism"? How can that be true if you also state Israel's force is doing nothing to stop terrorists?

you misunderstand. Force doesn't not prevent terrorism, but lacking strength and having an image of weakness only encourages it further. Clear enough?