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bondsteel · 07:19 AM

While I don't post here often, I had to share my experience upgrading to Tiger on my Rev. C, 1.5Ghz 15" Powerbook. At first, I performed an "Archive & Install" installation. Tiger ran OK - Finder seemed slightly faster - but I had a problem opening folders from within Spotlight results lists. So I reinstalled Tiger, this time selecting a Clean Install. What an incredible difference! Finder windows snap open, Safari flies, my CPU temperature is running about 15 degrees cooler, and even battery life has improved (from 3 to 3.5 hrs. on the "Better Battery Life" setting). Even my Spotlight problem is fixed.

I'm sure that my 'book did not run this well when I first received it, and I feel like I've upgraded to a new model. Best $129 and 4 hours I've ever spent...

urrl78 · May 10, 2005, 08:54 AM

That's great news. Wonder what your XBENCH score was before and after though...

macintologist · May 10, 2005, 10:37 AM

Heh, maybe Tiger gives a nice software overclock or something

workerbee · May 10, 2005, 02:16 PM

My (forced) Tiger "clean install" today has transformed me... this is a really really big time-waster, and full of frustrations. Especially now that I finally had to admit to myself that my Tiger crashes were probably not software, but hardware (RAM)

(But anyway, you're right: Tiger runs nicely when cleanly installed).

osxisfun · May 10, 2005, 02:36 PM

I am a BIG believer in starting from scratch with each new OS.

I would bet that 90% of the problems people have in tiger are due to all the gunk from older software in the prev OS.

just my thoughts...

bondsteel · May 10, 2005, 03:54 PM

Yeah, I've always believed in a Clean Install as well (at least from my former life in the Windows world), but I didn't think it was that necessary on a Mac based on other user's experiences in this forum. I even recall a poll that was split between an archive and a clean install. The issue that most surprised me were the hardware benefits such as lower CPU temp and better battery life. It seems that Tiger taxes the CPU less, resulting in better performance and lower power drain.

typoon · May 10, 2005, 06:37 PM

I always do a clean install. For me when I do a clean install it makes my .Mac subscription worth it. I never lose mail settings, app settings desktop or other things backed up using backup. Just doing it twice is worth the price of admission imo. That and the amount of time it saves on restoring stuff.

iluvmymactoo · May 10, 2005, 06:59 PM

I too have a clean install fetish

Every new OS goes on a freshly zeroed hard drive. It's really no big deal, even though it takes me about 5 hours to do. I zero the HD, then reinstall the OS and any Apple apps, then use Software Update to install any that are required, then install my apps etc etc.

Sure it takes a while, but I firmly believe it's worth it in the end.

issandr · May 11, 2005, 01:18 AM

So, I'm getting my new 15" Powerbook (1.67/1GB RAM/128VRAM) in a few hours along with an update to Tiger (through Up-to-date). The system will have never been used before, so should I just do an normal update or another clean install?

And, should I use the Setup Agent and firewire all my old stuff from my ibook, or instead copy it manually?

thanks for any suggestions.

MrForgetable · May 11, 2005, 01:23 AM

i'm thinking of doing a clean install but i don't have the external harddrive space to back everything up.

siflippant · May 11, 2005, 03:55 AM

Mmmmmm... on my 1.5ghz Powerbook I did an 'archive & install' and everything went smoothly... even at reduced speed on this thing, 10.4 is snappy™ - I don't get any spinning beachballs... did I just get lucky? Thing is... so many people are recommending a clean install it's got me thinking now...

moodymonster · May 11, 2005, 10:34 AM

I just did an upgrade, I did the xbench gained about 30 points - look here:

http://ladd.dyndns.org/xbench/csi.xh...chineTypeID=12

search for "crush" - I did some with QE2D on as well - the older date is for 10.3

historylme · May 11, 2005, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by issandr

So, I'm getting my new 15" Powerbook (1.67/1GB RAM/128VRAM) in a few hours along with an update to Tiger (through Up-to-date). The system will have never been used before, so should I just do an normal update or another clean install?

And, should I use the Setup Agent and firewire all my old stuff from my ibook, or instead copy it manually?

thanks for any suggestions.

Do a clean install, don't bother upgrading, if you want to use Tiger, just install it.

Once that is done, use the setup agent (I'm not sure if this is what is called) and firewire all you old setting (from your old comp) to your next one.

You can manually transfer all the setting and files. It's a question of how much time you want to spend and how detail you want to get.

iREZ · May 11, 2005, 12:10 PM

damn!!!...when i got my bootleg of tiger i did a clean, then i got the retail version and just did an archive n install just to have a clear head bout it. looks like i have to do another clean install cuz my batt life died about an hour after archive n installing....DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN

Phat Bastard · May 11, 2005, 01:25 PM

I wouldn't attribute your "transformation" to the clean install of Tiger in particular--do a clean install of Panther and your Powerbook will be equally "transformed". This happens for various reasons, like more swap space, more efficient file and directory localization, etc.

That's not to say Tiger won't improve the performance of your laptop, but a clean install of any mature OS will do the same! Just ask anyone who has formatted their Windows PC and reinstalled Windows XP.

slimmy · May 11, 2005, 07:39 PM

When you did the clean install, did you let your home folder, network prefs get copied over, or did you really begin completely from scratch? I ask because I did both (archive and install and clean install with copy mentioned above) and noticed very little difference in speed.

Slim

issandr · May 12, 2005, 04:19 AM

Got the powerbook yesterday (

) and installed Tiger immediately on the system. It did a simple straight upgrade and everything is working fine. But, I had to reinstall every app and move over all my data, as I did not use setup assistant (I was afraid it would copy over my old user account, with all its bloated library folder, so decided not to use it.)

The most difficult part was getting my old data for Mail and iCal. Although I have .Mac, it did not seem to work very well for those two programs (worked fine for Address Book, Keychain, etc...) so I had to set up the mail manually. After experimenting with just copying the ~/Library/Mail folder (and relevant ~/Library/Preferences/ plist file), I deleted everything and restarted. This time, connecting to my old ibook through Firewire target disk mode, I used Mail's import mailbox function. It worked fine for all my local mail, but did not import the accounts, which I had to recreate manually and then move the imported folders into their proper place. Rather timeconsuming -- it's too bad just moving the ~/Library/Mail folder doesn't work -- and I think it might have created some duplicates, but I can get rid of these easily with an Applescript.

My first impressions of Tiger is that while Dashboard is nice eye candy, it isn't quite as functional as Konfabulator (but also much less of a resource hog.) I had been using Butler with Panther, which provides a lot of the functionality that Spotlight provides, so again for me it was no major innovation except that it also works more efficiently. Of course, moving from my old iBook G4 800 to a Powerbook 1.67 is a big step up, so a lot of the improvements might just be hardware. I suppose a lot of the improvements in Tiger are "under the hood", but so far I'm not as blown away as I was moving from Jaguar to Panther. Still, a nice upgrade, and I didn't pay $129 for it so no complaints. I haven't installed most of the major software yet, so I haven't come across any compatibility problems. Mail was problematic a few times, but probably because it had to reindex 1.2 GB of email.

One great little usability improvement that I had wanted for a while: you can create a new Safari window from the Dock menu, so you don't have to bring up a minimized window and press Cmd-N. There are a lot of small changes like that, which makes the experience just a little more polished. Sometimes it's the small details that count.

Thorin · May 12, 2005, 04:28 AM

I'm doing a clean install of Tiger this afternoon on my 12" Rev B. I did an archive & install on the launch day, and my machine is running terribly. I had a play with a current 12" iBook in an Apple Store yesterday, and it was absolutely flying compared to my powerbook, so definitely going to give a clean install a shot!

siflippant · May 12, 2005, 05:39 AM

Just for info... I d/l the 3.0.3 Diskwarrior upgrade last night... the software does everything for you, just follow the instructions, insert a blank cd-r and you're set! Rebooted with the new CD, optimised my directory so it's now showing 1% out of place (on reboot), instead of the 22% after I did the archive and install... and it runs even SMOOTHER now...

Of all the apps I've ever spent money on, Diskwarrior is a live saver (for me anyway)...

Good luck with the clean installs...

bondsteel · May 12, 2005, 06:13 AM

I started completely from scratch. I used an iBook I have in the house in Fireware target mode, and I copied my documents, movies, music, and pictures folders to that computer. The only preference file I copied was "com.apple.mail.plist" for mail, located in ~/Library/Preferences. I also copied the folder "AddressBook," located in ~/Library/Application Support. I don't use iCal, so I didn't have to worry about files realted to that program. Of course it was a process to have to set up all of the networks, printers, devices, etc. that I use both at home and at work, but I wanted the cleanest install possible, so the time was well worth it.

typ993 · May 12, 2005, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by issandr

So, I'm getting my new 15" Powerbook (1.67/1GB RAM/128VRAM) in a few hours along with an update to Tiger (through Up-to-date). The system will have never been used before, so should I just do an normal update or another clean install?

I'd suggest the clean install. That way you can customize the install and skip the languages/printer drivers you don't need, saving a ton of disk space.

macintologist · May 12, 2005, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Phat Bastard

That's not to say Tiger won't improve the performance of your laptop, but a clean install of any mature OS will do the same! Just ask anyone who has formatted their Windows PC and reinstalled Windows XP.

Were you being sarcastic there?

Agent69 · May 12, 2005, 01:24 PM

I wonder how many people do an archive and install without backing up first?

real · May 12, 2005, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Agent69

I wonder how many people do an archive and install without backing up first?

Most People. It's scary how many people I know who do not have backups of anything.

stevesnj · May 12, 2005, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

I am a BIG believer in starting from scratch with each new OS.

I would bet that 90% of the problems people have in tiger are due to all the gunk from older software in the prev OS.

just my thoughts...

Agreed..I have saved and then Zero'd my drives since 2000 on my Pismo from OS 9 to 10.0 and never will do an archive and install...the 45 extra minutes to zero my drive is well worth the wait.

siflippant · May 14, 2005, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Agreed..I have saved and then Zero'd my drives since 2000 on my Pismo from OS 9 to 10.0 and never will do an archive and install...the 45 extra minutes to zero my drive is well worth the wait.

After reading the many posts on this forum (and having an hour or two to spare) I decided to take the plunge and zero my drive, then reinstall + back-up/migration though a neat little app called 'superduper' and it is...

http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDup...scription.html

There def. IS a difference in the responsiveness of this PB now... it's was pretty quick before (I thought snappy™) - but compared to NOW, wow... what a difference... no more archive & installs for me from now on... stevesnj & the rest are right...

Mojo · May 14, 2005, 02:13 PM

In the past I would have gone to the trouble of doing a clean install, but at least in my case it doesn't seem necessary...

Since I had a clone of Panther on an external drive I decided to try the Tiger upgrade option and see how well it worked. I ran my G4 iBook off the external drive for five days without a serious problem, and the few persistent glitches were attributable to third-party software/Tiger incompatibilities.

I have now upgraded two iBooks using the simple upgrade option and the time spent per iBook was less than 30 minutes. I am amazed at how well things are working and as the third-party developers are making adjustments the minor problems are going away one by one... I have quite a few third-party apps and haxies on my iBook.

I'd suggest the clean install. That way you can customize the install and skip the languages/printer drivers you don't need, saving a ton of disk space.

The upgrade option can also be customized; if you deselect the languages and printer drivers the drive space used by the upgrade drops to less than 900MB.

SEkker · May 14, 2005, 02:39 PM

I just want to point out that 'archive and install' is not the same as 'upgrade'. In the former, the installer disk installs a fresh OS -- and then takes your user files, network preferences, etc from the older system. In the upgrade, OS files are added/replaced, but a lot of third-party junk (usually that you don't want) is left in the OS folder. Not sure what option the original poster used.

I recently had to rebuild my wife's Lombard from scratch, which took me more than a day from start to finish to install all the apps, etc (hard drive failed so that it would not even mount; even disk warrior failed -- used Data Rescue to recover most of her files.)

For most of us, we need our computer to get our work done. I could not afford to lose my machine for that length of time, when the archive and install option does 99% of what you need from a fresh install. At the same time, I regularly run Diskwarrior -- and a fresh run of DW always makes my machine snappier -- before AND after any major software upgrade. That likely would have fixed whatever problem Spotlight had on your machine.

Mojo · May 14, 2005, 03:06 PM

I am also dependent on my Macs, which is why I experimented on a "disposable" clone residing on an external drive. I was curious whether the basic upgrade option would work, and it did.

BTW SEkker, if you had had a clone of that Lombard somewhere other than that dead drive, you could have copied it back to the new drive and saved yourself hours of time and trouble. I prefer SuperDuper! over CarbonCopyCloner and these days I maintain two clones of each Mac in the house, just in case...

SEkker · May 14, 2005, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

BTW SEkker, if you had had a clone of that Lombard somewhere other than that dead drive, you could have copied it back to the new drive and saved yourself hours of time and trouble. I prefer SuperDuper! over CarbonCopyCloner and these days I maintain two clones of each Mac in the house, just in case...

It's a long story, but I did start with a clone of a fully functional copy, made right before our vacation. The crash happened right AFTER the vacation, and before I had had a chance to run the backup, so I had to recover the lost family fotos we had stored on the computer between filling up the CF cards. But the cloned copy started acting VERY flaky, so i decided it was time to do a fresh install (and upgraded the HD on her Pismo at the same time while I was at it). So far, that was a good decision. But it also reminded me how long it takes to get a machine up and running -- and as we speak, I'm trying to find the registration code for delicious library (my wife purchased it online, and she seems to have tossed all of the registration info...).

Mojo · May 14, 2005, 04:05 PM

What did you use to create the clone? I had problems using CCC but none so far using SuperDuper!.

osxisfun · May 14, 2005, 04:14 PM

vacation? what is this word you speak of?

Tell me about it. I had to dig thru 10 boxes to find my photoshop disc. what saved me is that i have been very good in the last year about putting all my reg codes in an app like "Password Master"...its a little long in the tooth but still does the job.

SEkker · May 14, 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

What did you use to create the clone? I had problems using CCC but none so far using SuperDuper!.

Not trying to highjack the thread, but...

Clone that was unstable was made with CCC -- a program I've had nothing but success with in the past, both for backups and cloning my machine when it was sent out to repair at Apple.

One of the reasons I replaced the HD was out of concern that the problems we were experiencing were hardware-related. All it would take would be a poor disc sector, and the OS would be irreversibly corrupted.

Nevetherless, I have moved to SuperDuper, as that utility is Tiger-compliant. It's good to know that it's at least as high a quality at CCC.

Mojo · May 14, 2005, 05:22 PM

I would venture to guess that the troublesome clone can be linked to CCC; check out the trouble-shooting section at the CCC Web site to see how things can go wrong because of minor differences in machines, the OS, etc.

SuperDuper! appears to be updated on a more regular basis than CCC and the developer is very responsive to e-mail questions and suggestions. So I would say that SD! is a better quality cloning utility than CCC, albeit more expensive if you want to do more than the basic cloning function.

Toyin · May 14, 2005, 05:37 PM

I've installed OSX in every single way since 10.0 and this was by far the easiest. I decided that I would zero the drive, so this is what I did.

1. Use CCC to clone my 10.3.9 onto an external firewire drive. (I also backed up an a seperate firewire drive using Synchronize plus)
2. Boot from the external firewire drive for 2 reasons: a. make sure the back up worked and b. zeroing the drive from the firewire drive is faster than from the DVD
3. Zeroed internal HD
4. Installed Tiger
5. Used Migration Assistant to move all my documents and settings from the firewire drive.

I've used archive & install several times and the Migration Assistant was by far the easiest way. It copied over all my applications, all their preferences, AND all the application support components that are scattered among the library folders. It also copied internet plug-ins and quicktime plug-ins. The only thing I had to re-install was my mouse drivers. The entire process took only 3 hours and would have gone faster if my primary focus was the installation.

Tiger is running well. It is faster than Panther and I like (and use) most of the new features. My 15" PB definitely runs cooler than it used to, but I can't compare it to what an archive and install would have been like.

TerryJ · May 14, 2005, 10:11 PM

After having a weird kernel panic issue after doing an Archive and Install of Tiger on my PowerBook 1.25, I found the culprit to be a bad memory stick with Apple Hardware Test. I pulled the stick but I didn't do a reinstall yet. Today I did the same as everyone here, zeroed my drive, clean fresh install, migrate from a firewire external and I am blown away! My PB is amazingly faster now and I feel like I have my stability back too. Seems to run cooler even though I haven't had a chance to really push it yet. The overall feel and responsiveness was great before but now it's an amazing difference. I would recommend the time investment to anyone with a PB using Tiger.

cvbcvb · 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by TerryJ

After having a weird kernel panic issue after doing an Archive and Install of Tiger on my PowerBook 1.25, I found the culprit to be a bad memory stick with Apple Hardware Test. I pulled the stick but I didn't do a reinstall yet. Today I did the same as everyone here, zeroed my drive, clean fresh install, migrate from a firewire external and I am blown away! My PB is amazingly faster now and I feel like I have my stability back too. Seems to run cooler even though I haven't had a chance to really push it yet. The overall feel and responsiveness was great before but now it's an amazing difference. I would recommend the time investment to anyone with a PB using Tiger.

The way I see it, there are three ways to install Tiger:

1. Erase Disk & Install Tiger
2. Archive & Install Tiger
3. Upgrade older OS (say 10.3.9) to Tiger

What I'm really curious to know is if anyone has done a comparison (for speed, responsiveness, battery power, etc.) between number 3 (Upgrade) and number 1 (Erase & Install)?

TIA,

CVB

jreades · May 15, 2005, 05:05 AM

Does anyone partition their drive in this day and age? Maybe I'm old school or something, but my 60GB laptop drive is in 3 partitions: Home (20GB), Scratch (5GB for PS), and Data (35 GB). My thinking (aside from being anally retentive on the organisation front) is that I can do a comple wipe on reinstall on 'Home' while not having to touch all of my data (Music, Photos, Film Scans, etc.) if I was so inclined.

Any thoughts on the right upgrade strategy here?

jon

Randman · May 15, 2005, 05:07 AM

Partitioning is a waste of time for 95% of OSX users.

Randman · May 15, 2005, 05:10 AM

I did an archive and install on my mini the first day Tiger came out. Things were pretty stable so I went ahead and did the same thing with my PB17. No problems either and I'm just now a couple of hours short of 24 days of uptime since that initial install. No kernal panics, no problems (other than some apps defaulting Shapeshifter to Aqua) and all is running fine on both machines. Easiest upgrade I've ever done.

bondsteel · May 15, 2005, 07:26 AM

SEkker: My original install of Tiger was an Archive & Install (sorry for the confusion - the original post has been corrected). Your point stating "the install option does 99% of what you need from a fresh install" reflects my understanding of the Archive & Install process as well. That is why I was so surprised by the difference that the fresh install made.

Gorloth · May 15, 2005, 09:02 AM

I always do a clean install. First I move any important data to a back up drive then do a clean install. After I set up mty services I then use superduper to do a disk image of the clean install and save that on a firewire drive. If for some reason I need to redo a clean install it takes only minutes to restore from a disk image, great time saver. Then I install my apps and copy back my data. In this case I'm no going to use Tiger until X.4.1 comes out...just a few weeks I hear. To many things are broken in this new Tiger for me right now. I'm still using X.3.9. And even after I'll keep both systems usable for a couple of months before I put a Tigers in my tank. I make money with my mac and can't afford downtime due to mysterious QuickTime failings.

His Dudeness · May 15, 2005, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by real

Most People. It's scary how many people I know who do not have backups of anything.

What are these backups you talk about?

Aeschylus · May 15, 2005, 03:33 PM

My upgrade to Tiger went well, but after about a week I noticed several problems.

So I did an archive and re-install of Tiger, but no luck. Same problems persisted (on a stock iMac).

Then I did an erase and Clean install, and copied in the user data from a backup firewire clone. What an improvement - faster, no glitches, no more system problems or errors.

I'm a new convert to clean installs.

SEkker · May 15, 2005, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Aeschylus

My upgrade to Tiger went well, but after about a week I noticed several problems.

So I did an archive and re-install of Tiger, but no luck. Same problems persisted (on a stock iMac).

Then I did an erase and Clean install, and copied in the user data from a backup firewire clone. What an improvement - faster, no glitches, no more system problems or errors.

I'm a new convert to clean installs.

Wierd. I wonder what the 'leak' is in Tiger that's due to some 'residue' from Panther.

real · May 16, 2005, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

What are these backups you talk about?

I was just saying that Most people I talk t do not have a backup of anything. If there HD went Belly Up then they would be screwed. I was talking about backups that are not done.

His Dudeness · May 16, 2005, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by real

I was just saying that Most people I talk t do not have a backup of anything. If there HD went Belly Up then they would be screwed. I was talking about backups that are not done.

I do them now and then. Since I'm still using an XP box, I should do them more often.

SEkker · May 16, 2005, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by real

I was just saying that Most people I talk t do not have a backup of anything. If there HD went Belly Up then they would be screwed. I was talking about backups that are not done.

Indeed, and it's TRULY scary. I have a sister who runs a small internet business from her Toshiba laptop, and I subsequently learned she TWICE send it in for repairs WITHOUT a backup of her site! I promptly gave her a zip drive; not sure if she uses it...

And I know a graduate student who recently sent HER iBook in to Apple for repair without a backup. During their regular servicing, Apple did a clean install on the hard drive...

The BIG negative with notebooks is people carry them EVERYWHERE. That means they are subject to theft, loss (like at airport security), and physical damage due to wear and tear (and the occasional bounce).

My wife will spend HOURS on a project (photoshop, etc) using her OS X machine without even SAVING her file. I back her machine up whether she wants it done or not.

The faith people have in their machines is truly beyond reason.

bbales · May 16, 2005, 09:31 AM

[QUOTE=SEkker]Indeed, and it's TRULY scary. I have a sister who runs a small internet business from her Toshiba laptop, and I subsequently learned she TWICE send it in for repairs WITHOUT a backup of her site! I promptly gave her a zip drive; not sure if she uses it...

And I know a graduate student who recently sent HER iBook in to Apple for repair without a backup. During their regular servicing, Apple did a clean install on the hard drive...

The BIG negative with notebooks is people carry them EVERYWHERE. That means they are subject to theft, loss (like at airport security), and physical damage due to wear and tear (and the occasional bounce).

My wife will spend HOURS on a project (photoshop, etc) using her OS X machine without even SAVING her file. I back her machine up whether she wants it done or not.

/QUOTE]

Hasn't she ever lost a project that way? I am always after myh kids to save, save, save, so that if something happens -- and of course it can -- they at least will only lose a little bit. I cannot believe people are so foolish.

LambMadras · May 16, 2005, 11:06 AM

My 2 cents......just did a clean install and 15" 1.25ghz PB is much cooler and a tad faster. The speed is not that much more noticeable but when I run intensive CPU apps such as Logic Pro 7 with the softsynths blazing away it is def cooler

.

I didn't realise Tiger didn't come with iPhoto and iMovie