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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > 17" is here, looks amazing..

17" is here, looks amazing..
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fisherKing
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:17 PM
 
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz Dual Core, 6MB L2 Cache, 8GB memory at 1066 MHz DDR3.

matte screen option.

thin.

long battery life.

am impressed...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Urkel
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:20 PM
 
Now that's what a Macbook should look like.


Also, it should be noted that all those people who yell "stop whining" are doing nothing to help the consumer get what they want. $50 for an anti-glare screen with no black bezel? I'll take it!

BTW: The explanation of the non-replaceable battery is "we wanted to keep it thin"? Thin may be important on an iPod/phone since you keep it in a pocket. But for notebooks, is losing a few millimeters really more important than things like standard sized hard drives (Air), Firewire (MB) or a replaceable battery (MBP17)?
( Last edited by Urkel; Jan 6, 2009 at 02:58 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:23 PM
 
"-60% greater color gamut, 700:1 contrast ratio, 140H/120V viewing angle, offering a glossy and matte version because high-end customers don't like glossy (people cheer) "

WooHoo, graphics pros are still in the game!

-Allen Wicks
     
Kvasir
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:28 PM
 
Bad move though - non-removeable battery. That pretty much kills it for me. I won't buy a desktop replacement laptop that has to be sent in for repair if anything goes fooey with the battery.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kvasir View Post
Bad move though - non-removeable battery. That pretty much kills it for me. I won't buy a desktop replacement laptop that has to be sent in for repair if anything goes fooey with the battery.
1000 charges...should keep u busy for a long time...years. and 7-8 hours battery life (altho realworld will undoubtedly be less). seems a good situation to me...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
schuey100
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kvasir View Post
Bad move though - non-removeable battery. That pretty much kills it for me. I won't buy a desktop replacement laptop that has to be sent in for repair if anything goes fooey with the battery.
Same here, they just lost one sale. I'll keep my current 17" and, when it dies, go the PC route. Apple have annoyed me a little too much over the last couple of years for me to continue paying the sky high prices.

In today's economic climate, you better do a lot to justify high prices and unfortunately you don't do that by removing options, charging for extras like anti glare and building batteries into pro equipment. Bad move Apple.
     
schuey100
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
1000 charges...should keep u busy for a long time...years. and 7-8 hours battery life (altho realworld will undoubtedly be less). seems a good situation to me...
I have 249 cycles since September 27th 08.
     
fisherKing  (op)
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:43 PM
 
just for fun...

2.93g processor, 8 gig ram, 256g ssd drive... $5,249.00
that's BEFORE applecare...

entry level (w/2.66g, 4g ram, etc) seems reasonable..
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amazing
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:43 PM
 
I guess they think they've got the bulging battery problem fixed, hmmm???
     
Kvasir
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
1000 charges...should keep u busy for a long time...years. and 7-8 hours battery life (altho realworld will undoubtedly be less). seems a good situation to me...
Your assuming no problems. In the past 9 years, I have had to return 3 Apple laptop batteries for premature failure to hold a charge. And I know of several others who have been in the same boat. Batteries are not fail safe, and requiring the return of the entire computer just to fix a battery issue is ridiculuous IMO. I would rather have a user replaceable battery with 5-6 hours of useable power, and I'll just get a second battery if I need more time then that (I've always had two batteries for my past and present Powerbooks anyway).
     
Voch
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:52 PM
 
Is the hard drive in the 17" replaceable like in the 13" and 15" models? Just curious...
     
CobraNT
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Jan 6, 2009, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Voch View Post
Is the hard drive in the 17" replaceable like in the 13" and 15" models? Just curious...
And what about memory....I don't see a door to replace / upgrade the memory..
( Last edited by CobraNT; Jan 6, 2009 at 03:12 PM. )
     
Zeeb
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Jan 6, 2009, 03:21 PM
 
I think some are a little scared based upon experience with *current* removable laptop batteries. Apple is saying that this battery is different and more reliable. If that turns out to be true a built in battery that lasts up to 8 hours has a clear advantage.

Also, since the battery is built in I'm wondering if it will now be covered under Applecare like everything else? Applecare didn't cover the replacement of my last macbook pro battery.

They look great, I might pick one up soon since I'm almost due for an upgrade. I still might hold out for blu-ray though.
     
ajprice
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Jan 6, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
So the matte version does without the glass? Wonder if its any lighter, not having a 17" sheet of the stuff in there.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
schuey100
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Jan 6, 2009, 03:49 PM
 
£2500? £2500???? I just priced up a mid spec model and it comes in at £2500 with Apple Care. That is ridiculous. Shocking.
     
SierraDragon
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Jan 6, 2009, 04:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kvasir View Post
In the past 9 years, I have had to return 3 Apple laptop batteries for premature failure to hold a charge.
For better/sleeker/lighter an overnight to Apple for battery repair average every 3 years to me is totally acceptable. However you describe the last nine years; once we get past likely new-product anomalies, over the next nine years we may enjoy improvements in battery tech...

-Allen Wicks
     
chabig
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Jan 6, 2009, 05:49 PM
 
The battery is almost certainly removable and replaceable with just a few screws. No biggie. Plus, if you're going to carry around a spare battery you might as well just carry around an external battery.
     
schuey100
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Jan 6, 2009, 05:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
The battery is almost certainly removable and replaceable with just a few screws. No biggie. Plus, if you're going to carry around a spare battery you might as well just carry around an external battery.
The Mac Air has a built in battery doesn't it? Is that easy to remove, buy as a spare and replace?
     
chabig
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Jan 6, 2009, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by schuey100 View Post
The Mac Air has a built in battery doesn't it? Is that easy to remove, buy as a spare and replace?
I believe it is, yes.

MacBook Air Battery Replacement Takes only Minutes.
     
schuey100
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Jan 6, 2009, 06:06 PM
 
Well that's not too bad I guess although whether the warranty is voided would be an issue. I would assume it's easy to get the replacement batteries? I don't actually see anywhere to buy them.
     
Person Man
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Jan 6, 2009, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by schuey100 View Post
Well that's not too bad I guess although whether the warranty is voided would be an issue. I would assume it's easy to get the replacement batteries? I don't actually see anywhere to buy them.
If you're *extremely* careful (and kept the old battery pack around) you could probably get away with it without Apple figuring out that you opened it.
     
driven
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Jan 6, 2009, 07:05 PM
 
Usually I keep an open mind, but the built in battery thing bugs me too. I've replaced batteries on nearly EVERY laptop that I've owned. (I didn't replace it on the one that got stolen).

I sincerely hope they don't do this with the 15' or the 13" models.

If I had to send my notebook back to Apple just to get a new battery, I'd probably not be the happy man on the block. Now ... if the Geniuses can do it in-store I'd be OK with it.
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voicebox
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Jan 6, 2009, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz Dual Core, 6MB L2 Cache, 8GB memory at 1066 MHz DDR3.

matte screen option.

thin.

long battery life.

am impressed...
Hi fisherKing,
A couple of thoughts ...
8GB memory at 1066 MHz DDR3 = WOW!!
8GB memory at 1066 MHz DDR3 at a cost of £839.99 or $1,250.618 extra = double WOW, or even YIKES - that hurts!!
Having seen the demo here in England at the Apple UK site, it would appear that any new memory module will have to fitted by an Apple techie (no memory 'door' on the underside or anywhere else that I could see - under the keyboard perhaps?) at an extra cost of maybe £50 to £90 ...?
Or will a friendly techie at your nearest Apple Store fit any new memory for free??

Glad to have the matte screen option though - and the long battery life!
voicebox
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SierraDragon
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Jan 6, 2009, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
...I might pick one up soon since I'm almost due for an upgrade. I still might hold out for blu-ray though.
At the speed that internet downloads are overtaking, Blu-ray may be over before it gets really going if the price does not drop precipitously.

I would wait a bit anyway, just to get third-party RAM prices stabilized (surely no one will pay US$1200 to Apple, but even OWC is US$1149 today) and any little new-product kinks worked out...

-Allen Wicks
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Jan 6, 2009 at 09:40 PM. )
     
driven
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Jan 6, 2009, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
At the speed that internet downloads are overtaking, Blu-ray may be over before it gets really going if the price does not drop precipitously.

I would wait a bit anyway, just to get third-party RAM prices stabilized (surely no one will pay US$1200 to Apple, but even OWC is US$1149 today) and any little new-product kinks worked out...

-Allen Wicks
Was thinking the same thing. Not to get off topic, but the outcome of the DVD wars may not have had a victor, but instead may have been an example of mutually assured destruction. :-(

There is a lot to like about that laptop, but I've still get to get my brain past the non-removable battery issue. I managed to get my head around that with the iPhone ... not sure if I can do it with a laptop.
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
Also, it should be noted that all those people who yell "stop whining" are doing nothing to help the consumer get what they want. $50 for an anti-glare screen with no black bezel? I'll take it!
I really hope they make this an option all all the future MacBooks. I for one would be very happy to pay an extra $50 for a non-glare display.
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iPublius
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:35 AM
 
I'm pretty impressed. Now we know it's possible to have matte on the unibody lines, lest anyone claim it's not technically feasible. I bet this will filter down to the 15" MBP soon, but the MB will probably stay all glossy. The non-removable battery shouldn't be that big of a deal for most people, although it will turn off some. If the battery life estimates are at all credible, that means close to a full work day without having to plug-in. This looks like a tremendous laptop.
     
Simon
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Jan 7, 2009, 04:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by CobraNT View Post
And what about memory....I don't see a door to replace / upgrade the memory..
Remove ten Phillips 00 screws to pop off the bottom case shell. Beneath you will probably find the easily accessible two RAM slots and HDD. It's the same screwdriver you need to swap the RAM or disk on the current 15" MBP.
( Last edited by Simon; Jan 7, 2009 at 11:29 AM. Reason: 6->10)
     
voicebox
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Jan 7, 2009, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Remove six Phillips 00 screws to pop off the bottom case shell. Beneath you will probably find the easily accessible two RAM slots and HDD. It's the same screwdriver you need to swap the RAM or disk on the current 15" MBP.
Hi Simon,
Wouldn't 'popping off' the bottom case invalidate any Apple Care warranty one might have?
After all it's not like lifting off a plate that has been specifically designed to allow access in order to swap a memory module.
I have a 17" MBP with 18 months remaining on a three year Apple Care warranty and recently I upgraded my HD from 160Gb to 320Gb's. I could have done the job myself but I was told that if I did it, I would blow the remaining warranty - so I paid the going rate and got an Apple techie to do it.
By the way, I checked with the Crucial web-site here in the UK this morning and they are not showing a 4Gb memory module yet, although they do have 2Gb modules for the 17" MBP at £17.29/$25 each!
voicebox
( Last edited by voicebox; Jan 7, 2009 at 07:08 AM. )
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Simon
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Jan 7, 2009, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by voicebox View Post
Wouldn't 'popping off' the bottom case invalidate any Apple Care warranty one might have?
We don't know the details yet.

After all it's not like lifting off a plate that has been specifically designed to allow one to swap a memory module.
Why not? The memory door on previous MBPs was designed the same way. A set of screws people have to remove but all well within "user-serviceable". Apple actually included the instructions how to do it right in the user manual. As long as you don't break anything while swapping memory you are fully covered by the regular warranty.

As I said, we don't know the details yet. But just because we see screws doesn't mean users won't be able to do these things themselves.
     
voicebox
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Jan 7, 2009, 07:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
We don't know the details yet.



Why not? The memory door on previous MBPs was designed the same way. A set of screws people have to remove but all well within "user-serviceable". Apple actually included the instructions how to do it right in the user manual. As long as you don't break anything while swapping memory you are fully covered by the regular warranty.

As I said, we don't know the details yet. But just because we see screws doesn't mean users won't be able to do these things themselves.
Thanks for the quick reply!
The memory door on previous MBP's and PB's was indeed designed into the bottom of the case to allow access to the memory in order to change it - in fact the present 17" MBP has the memory slot inside the battery bay - but the new 17" seems to be designed not to allow any access from the base at all because it's made from one piece of aluminium.
I am going up to the Apple Store in Regent Street here in London later this morning and I'll check with the Genius Bar about this.
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Super Mario
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Jan 7, 2009, 08:55 AM
 
I've mad some inquiries on post production forums and it seems that the Apple has as always skewed some facts about the MacBook Pro's screen specs.

Apple says that the new screen produced 60% more color gamut than the previous models but slyly doesn't mention which gamut it is talking about. It gives the impression that they are talking about a professional gamut like Adobe RGB but they aren't. The number of colors is 60% over the 262,000 colors that most older 6 bit models produced (although some lucky few were able to buy models with 8 bit panels). This means the new 17" screen produces around 420,000 colors with the rest of the "millions" of colors produced by traditional dithering. If you're lucky you might accidentally get a genuine 8 bit screen as some have in the past.

The competition from Lenovo, Dell and Sony are offering genuine 10bit and 12bit screens and also quad-core, Nvidia Quadro, Blu-ray and and internal RAIDs too. They specifically mention the amount of Adobe RGB's color gamut they support instead of using murky language and hype.

The new 17" is still overpriced and not a pro machine compared to the competition. The battery life and portability serves to prove it is more for surfing the web and iTunes Store on a large screen than as a desktop replacement, which brings us to the lack of a new Mac Pro. I have seen some Mac fanatics defend this on forums by saying Intel doesn't have new CPUs or that Nehalem is delayed. Crazy people.
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:01 AM
 
I really don't know why you haven't been banned yet, and it pains me to say that because I think we agree on a lot of political issues. Many of us have criticized Apple in the past, but we're still Mac users. You appear to now be a PC user, and it doesn't look like you'll ever consider a Mac again. If so, that's fine, I don't fault you for that, and I think it's fine if you continue posting here even with that clearly stated preference. But give the constant Mac-bashing on these Mac forums a rest, please.

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Super Mario
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I really don't know why you haven't been banned yet, and it pains me to say that because I think we agree on a lot of political issues. Many of us have criticized Apple in the past, but we're still Mac users. You appear to now be a PC user, and it doesn't look like you'll ever consider a Mac again. If so, that's fine, I don't fault you for that, and I think it's fine if you continue posting here even with that clearly stated preference. But give the constant Mac-bashing on these Mac forums a rest, please.
You should appreciate anyone looking into this matter. Enjoy your pro laptop and Core i7 Mac Pro.
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driven
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:10 AM
 
How can ANY machine that comes with Vista be considered a Pro machine?
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Super Mario
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
How can ANY machine that comes with Vista be considered a Pro machine?
I've configured Vista to behave almost exactly like Leopard, but better, and every benchmark I've ran on it has outperformed my Mac despite they having the same specs. I've got two finger right click/scrolling, an Expose app that works better than Expose, a Photoshop CS4 that is 64bit, Office that is better than the Mac version, and file management that is better than what the Finder was doing for me. Bring Windows 7 too. Looks sweet. I'll take a look at Macs again after 10.7 and when Apple gets serious about pro hard drive, graphics and screens.
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Urkel View Post
Now that's what a Macbook should look like.
Why is anti-glare an option???
     
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
How can ANY machine that comes with Vista be considered a Pro machine?
You've been drinking the kool-aid from too many Mac vs. PC commercials.
     
driven
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
I've configured Vista to behave almost exactly like Leopard, but better, and every benchmark I've ran on it has outperformed my Mac despite they having the same specs. I've got two finger right click/scrolling, an Expose app that works better than Expose, a Photoshop CS4 that is 64bit, Office that is better than the Mac version, and file management that is better than what the Finder was doing for me. Bring Windows 7 too. Looks sweet. I'll take a look at Macs again after 10.7 and when Apple gets serious about pro hard drive, graphics and screens.
Wow.

Dude ... it was a joke. Relax. Don't take life so serious.
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Super Mario
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Jan 7, 2009, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
Wow.

Dude ... it was a joke. Relax. Don't take life so serious.
Yeah I know!! But after 12 years as a Mac user I have lost count of the number of times when sensible people suddenly lost all sense. I remember when the Mac community was losing so many digital designers to Windows NT4 there were still fanatics who would argue for hours that System 7 was more stable, had better support for multiprocessor systems and that co-operative multitasking was better than pre-emptive multitasking. Crazy people like I said. Hopefully this new era without the trade shows will calm the fanaticism.
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Atheist
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Jan 7, 2009, 10:24 AM
 
I thought this was a thread about the new 17" MBP. Which by the way, I'll be buying as soon as I can scrape up the money.
     
iamnotmad
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Jan 7, 2009, 10:36 AM
 
So 'they' say greater color gamut. Does that mean this is actually an 8 bit panel? Also is the display glass (in both glossy and matte) like the 15"?

thanks!
     
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:09 PM
 
Ok, let's be honest here, what really brought you to the Apple Computer platform, hardware or it's OS. For me it was an obvious one, the OS, back when I enter college there were PC's and Macs on campus. The PC's were running Windows 3.1, and the Macs were running System 7. Having never touched neither before, I noticed the Macs in the lab were all being used, I didn't want to wait to use them, so I sat in front of a IBM desktop and tried using it. What a horrible way to be introduced to a computer, 15 minutes later (mind you I didn't ask for help, guys generally don't) and I had gotten nothing done on my assignment. Then I noticed someone had left one of the Macs, so I hurried over, 15 minutes later I was done with my assignment and had it printed. Everything seem so easy on the Mac. stuff made sense. Before you do the lets bash this, yes I am aware that Windows has come a long way at trying to be easier, but the issues are still there, and while 32 bit versions of Windows are better at using peripherals the 64 bit version you all are touting to run CS4 64 Bit is not. Things like Drivers and supported software are scare. If you didn't know this you best do your homework, my girlfriend is a PC tech, I hear about these things from her all the time.
For those that think they are gunna get a PC notebook and load OSX on it, and run Final Cut Pro, you're in for a real treat, when issues come up, and they will feel free to call Apple and ask for help.
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:39 PM
 
...The battery life and portability serves to prove it is more for surfing the web and iTunes Store on a large screen than as a desktop replacement...
I do not understand what that sentence is trying to say.

Laptops are not desktops(I use both), tower engineering being far, far superior and more cost effective if mobility is not needed. I use my 17" for the field and I run heavy graphics apps; the new 17" would simply improve in every aspect. Agreed, an even better matte display with more bit depth would be nice.

...which brings us to the lack of a new Mac Pro.
Existing MPs remain excellent and we are in a major recession if not a depression. Appropriate new tech is available and I do expect new MPs with 50+% improved performance in H1 2009 but delay beyond Mac Expo is understandable, even if just because of the economic environment.

-Allen Wicks
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by schuey100 View Post
£2500? £2500???? I just priced up a mid spec model and it comes in at £2500 with Apple Care. That is ridiculous. Shocking.
It's only €2500 over here, which is slightly cheaper than the previous model IIRC.

Unfortunately, you'll have to get used to the idea that your currency is worthless...
     
seanc
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:55 PM
 


Lets get back to talking about the new MacBook Pro please
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Why is anti-glare an option???
Because graphics guys are the single most reactiona^H^H^H^H^H^H^H conservative group of people on the planet, right after the Amish.

We had *years* of graphics "pros" spending more time on the net than they could possibly have been working, arguing about how much more valuable it was to be able to manually assign memory space, and how happy horseshit gumdrops were obviously the downfall of productive work, and how Mac OS X was completely doomed.

Give the monkey sugar, as the German saying goes.


As it is, people EXPECTING to be annoyed by the glass screen WILL go absolutely apeshit trying to use it, so it's a good idea to appease them, whatever valid or imagined reasons they might have.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 7, 2009, 01:59 PM
 
What, that piece of crap? It doesn't have a replaceable batter, it's got a huuuuuge footprint, the bezel is enormous, you can't run Office on it, you can't play games on it... overall its a pile of crap.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by amazing View Post
I guess they think they've got the bulging battery problem fixed, hmmm???
They've apparently designed their own batteries, this time around.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 7, 2009, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by schuey100 View Post
I have 249 cycles since September 27th 08.
That's almost ten cycles A DAY!

Um. What the hell are you doing dis-/reconnecting your MacBook to mains every few minutes? The current batteries are designed to last 300+x cycles - that should be close to two years or over!
     
 
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