[charlesjaggers]

My firstMac, an eMac, has a logic board failure in only 2 years. My architect son says if a Mac fails buy a new one, it is cheaper than getting the man in to fix them, and it is too expensive to return to Dell. Apple says hard luck and quotes the Charles Dickens lawyer excuse of it would not be fair to other customers to fix faulty manufactured goods out of statutory warrantry (12 months required in Australia). I find, by accident, posted on an Apple site an eMac extension program to correct failed logic boards within my serial number for 3 years after purchase. I expend great effort to carry it to a AASP, Apple says that although my computer serial number is included in the repair extension for logic boards, my logic board is not. Apple immediately removes eMac Repair Extension Program from their web site. I have a hard copy.
I investigate Apple retailing in Australia and find Apple is only sold and repaired via small, really small, businesses that are in dire fear of Apple.
I am surprised because I thought Apple was a big show and they were the good guys, and Bill Gates was the bad guy. Must reassess my views, I have never had a bad experience with a PC, not even a virus, I still use one for wordprocessing and spreadsheets. Must warn PC friends not to switch. My Apple G4 notebook screen is not even a compromise so I will have to buy second hand Mac to cover period of Intel chip as Apple doesn't stand by its products -apparently now using its loyal customer base as a laboratory.
In future how can Apple compete with Microsoft in the supply of digital content into the home when it walks all over its captive customers? I will restrict my Apple product to Photoshop for photography; being an Engineer I'll use Autocad on a PC for CAD.
I am most discouraged that Apple doesn't want to know, I remember when they went this way before. Is this familiar teritory to anybody outside Australia? Should I persevere with Apple?

[Rob van dam]

Have you thought about calling customer relations.

[Will C]

I agreed with Rob van dam. Put aside a couple of hours (yes seriously - there is nothing worse than being uder pressure to get a call finished when you have more to say) Give CR a call. Explain your story very slowly, make sure that it is well understood. Do not rant and moan about how terrible your experience has been (not yet) Take names, note times, have your story really clear. Save all the PC stuff for later. Explain exactly how the webpage was taken down after you had been led to believe it covered your machine. If you are told 'tough' - take the time and name of who tells you and ask to speak to a supervisor. This is quite annoying stuff and this is why I sugget you need 2 hours spare - you may get it all sorted in 20 minutes.
Make sure that when you explain your story that it sounds really unfair on you and say that you feel misled and very let down. Pause to see if they have repsonses - note the responses - take your time. Anyway I hope you get the picture, you may be able to get them feeling that you have been let down and they will sort it out. If you want to rant at this point it might work, but I suspect it is more likely to go against you and just put their backs up - psycology 101 (spilleng?)

If this gets nowhere, you now have a list of names, times and details to take to 'trading standards' or similar in Australia - sorry but I don't know what you have, but in the UK you can take this kind of complaint up with consumer groups/TV and raido programmes - big companies hate bad publicity and if dealt with fairly will often sort out problems like this.

Good luck - maybe someone will post a more succinct version of what I am trying to say....

[charlesjaggers]

Originally Posted by Rob van dam 

Have you thought about calling customer relations.

I did ring customer relations at the suggestion of the software man I got in to find the fault, at suggestion of architects who run Mac offices, and at the Apple Authorised Service Provider (AASP).
I was practically laughed at as my computer was safetly beyond its 12 month warranty. The first contact suggested I should have taken out an insurance policy to effectively extend the warrantry, but free of Apple expense for repair. This first contact controlled the subsequent two people I spoke to at customer relations. He did not mention the emac repair extension Program for default logic boards within my computer serial number. When I presented it, it was rejected by technoblab and the notice of the warrantry extension program was removed from the Apple website.

I find Apple's dealings with me sneeky and mean.

[charlesjaggers]

Will C, thankyou for that reinforcement, I think I have done all that pretty much on que as you set out, other than threatening them with Dept. of Fair Trading, They suggested I go there. You need much more than a couple of days, and I have had successful experience there with our new house purchased from a developer. The success was because I was a builder myself and knew the ropes and there is a 7 year statutory guarantee with houses. In this case other than wasting a couple of days attendance for hearings by Apple personnel the conclusion would be: it is out of warranty OR it was unsalable goods, depending on the CCT assessor.

[seanc]

What are the symptoms of your eMac? Does it match those stated in the repair program? Looking on Apple Australia, the eMac repair program is still there, Apple - Support - eMac Repair Extension Program for Video and Power Issues

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by charlesjaggers 

I did ring customer relations at the suggestion of the software man I got in to find the fault, at suggestion of architects who run Mac offices, and at the Apple Authorised Service Provider (AASP).
I was practically laughed at as my computer was safetly beyond its 12 month warranty. The first contact suggested I should have taken out an insurance policy to effectively extend the warrantry, but free of Apple expense for repair. This first contact controlled the subsequent two people I spoke to at customer relations. He did not mention the emac repair extension Program for default logic boards within my computer serial number. When I presented it, it was rejected by technoblab and the notice of the warrantry extension program was removed from the Apple website.

I find Apple's dealings with me sneeky and mean.

All companies are sneaky and mean but this specifically dealing with apple Australia does not surprise me. Try whirlpool.net.au as there are some apple resellers on there who can help out in getting your issue resolved. Also try http://mactalk.com.au/ which like whirlpool forums will have similar accounts when dealing with apple.

[ghporter]

Let me be clear here: I am NOT trying to be rude. But why is it hard to understand that a 12 month warranty only lasts for 12 months? And that, unless you buy AppleCare it will cost you plenty to get an out-of-warranty product repaired? Unless, as seanc points out, your machine is still covered by the Repair Extension Program, your computer is now your responsibility.

If your car failed after TWICE its original warranty, would you expect Ford to fix it for free anyway? I do NOT understand this attitude.

"Sneaky and mean?" They are a BUSINESS and not in business as a charity. You bought a product, rejected an extended warranty and now are faced with a problem that will cost you a lot whichever way you go. I am truly sorry for your plight, but when they tell you up front that the warranty is only for 12 months, that should say something to you. Like "if this encounters a failure after 12 months, you are on your own." It is bad luck, but not unpredictable-why would they set the warranty period at 12 months if they expected to repair products after twice that period? DO investigate the Repair Extension Program-an educated customer is one who gets tech support to move faster and better than one who merely says "it doesn't work." If you point out "my machine is doing exactly what the Repair Extension Program is supposed to address, and that program is indeed still in effect; see your own web site at...", then you WILL get action.

Again, I am NOT trying to be rude here, merely emphatic. I seriously do not understand the idea that seems to be coming across-Apple "owes" you an out-of-warranty repair. And I think that if you have not gotten a decent (as in polite and non-technobabble) response from customer support for Apple Australia, that you should contact Apple in California and explain why you're not satisfied with the response you got from Apple Australia. This is a key point-they should treat you as well as Apple US tech support treats customers, and Apple corporate should know when this doesn't happen.

[charlesjaggers]

Thank you ghporter, i enjoyed your reply and don't regard you putting the Apple Business Plan as being rude. My objective is to spread far and wide Apple's attitude to its customers, to have them so clearly denunciated (no I have not misused the word) by another party within my discussion is a plus for my campaign. I hope one day Apple will listen.
I have as much enjoyment in replying as I had in reading your defence of Apple's customer policy.
I am new to this forum "junior member' even to the extent of using my own name as I assume you have, but "Moderator" is impressive. Does this mean you are an Apple employee? Apple customer relations used this term, I thought they were suggesting the Department of Fair Trading, I did not understand them to be refering to the police investigating the police, and "elevating" me to another level of Apple's non-discretionary management. If you work for Apple, it reinforces my case that Apple don't care for customers, regard their customers repeat purchasers as mandatory, and their ineffectiveness in informing PC users not to switch. Apple is so small this attitude in the past, if it was the attitude before i switched, has been masked. Apple is now reinvented itself in its eternal quest of survival by inovation, it is the ipod inventor and it wishes to enter the Living room of every home with electronics. Here it will continue to be a less than 10% player if it does not see the value of its own customers.
Now the reply:
Do you, ghporter or Apple Moderator, consider 2 years a reasonable life for a computer? I have a Windows 98 computer I still use, my kid's 90's Apple computers are stored but they still work (they have the latest Apple products now). I have had no warranty calls on this equipment which is electronic and at the time leading edge.
You mention "Ford", a manufactoring company of substance who will not go down because they realise their survival and performance depends on no body else than their customers. This is well documented but let me tell you of my excellent experiences as a customer of Ford.
I first purchased a Ford Fairlane secondhand in the early 80's. A Fairlane is top of the line in Australia but for the same car in LTD trim. I was so impressed that I bought a new model, and that car remained in the family for 16 years, it was serviced as recommended and its only failing was an electric window winder after several years. I have bought two Fairlane models since. By the 90's cars had become more electronic and I purchased a one (or maybe 2) year extended warranty from Ford with the new car. To my surprise when I took delivery I was given an AMP insurance policy for the extended warranty. AMP, then a mutual, was and still is the biggest insurance company in Australia but within the first 12 months I received a letter from AMP to inform me that the underwriter for my extended warranty policy had gone broke and I was a creditor. The car gave me a lot of problems in the first year but not in the next two
, the period for which I paid for an extended warranty but was not covered. I upgraded and the new car developed a sagged rear suspension after the 12 month warranty period. The incessant audible electronic "check suspension" warning on trips was what I couldn't take. You still see that model on the streets with sagged suspension, they tried to fix it but after unpteen returns I gave up, vowing not to buy another Fairlane. The whole matter after the first try to find the problem was covered at no charge by Ford. I didn't buy another Fairlane, I now drive a XJ Jaguar, yes a Ford Prestige motor car. It is as reliable as the 16 years of my second Fairlane.
Apple is in no way comparable to Ford, at any level.
But I must put in a word for German Whitegoods "Miele", I purchased a new home with 8 Miele whitegoods in 2003, 18 months before I bought my eMac. Miel tell you their products last 20 years, and in the first two years we had 3 product call outs, the range hood twice, the microwaye twice, and the built in coffee machine all at no expense to us. The coffee machine was dismantled in our kitchen and the whole steam machinery replaced by a completely new design, the unit was new an evolving design, they told us. Two months ago the coffee machine failed again. They picked up the machine repaired it in their workshop and returned it without charge, they explained that two years ago they became aware of a design fault that allowed water into the heater electronics and were replacing the parts as they became aware.
All business is not "Sneaky and Mean", not if the have long term life intentions. A business born out of a garage in California may have your attitude to business, but a marketing oriented corporation such as Ford or Miele has far more respect for their customer base who they regard as their life blood. Believe me customers are Apples life blood too.
Marketing (not selling) used to be finding a customer need and developing products to satisfy that need. In recent newspaper article Apple's then Vice-president of hardware , Jon Rubinstein, is reported as saying "Customers do not know what they want to buy. We have to tell them". That "selling" not "marketing', I am sure Apple new approach to reinvent human nature and mould it to its out of the garage approach will not overcome a centure of market research and business methods for which America is the world leader.
I want Apple to flourish, please watch your backside when you only have yesmen in front of you!

[ghporter]

I am a retired U.S. Air Force master sergeant currently in grad school. I am neither employed by MacNN nor anyone else at the moment, and I moderate as a volunteer here. I have degrees in instructional systems, electronic systems and computer science, none of which are particularly applicable here. But I do have the ability to see more than one side of an issue. I DO see that you are frustrated and upset by what you see as a problem that Apple has, but I also see that the large business known as Apple Computer Incorporated has its own point of view. And having been "management" for several years, I can see that it is sometimes necessary to not give the customer what he wants because he simply hasn't paid for it.

My analogy to Ford was apparently too literally worded; I did not mean to compare computers to Ford cars. As a side note, I grew up in easy driving distance of their world headquarters, there was a Ford plant in my home town, and I have owned Ford products. But I do not now, nor will I in the future because of their corporate policies, including the way they have "dumbed down" the Jaguar line. Not the "yesman" you envisioned? I agree that your experience with your last Fairlane was, to say the least, "unpleasant," but your extended warranty was from a third party, not Ford, so I do not see that as being comparable to AppleCare (though I see how you might in a "once bitten, twice shy" sense).

Further, you can I hope see that there is a huge difference between a commodity product like a computer (yes, even Apple computers) and a "durable goods" item such as your kitchen appliances; the technology behind a gas range or refrigerator does not change on an 18 month cycle, while computer technology does, and it is quite possible to efficiently use a 20 year old range (or even a 100 year old one), while it is nearly impossible to make any practical use of a 20 year old computer. This is a good point of comparison with your kitchen appliances-their manufacturer tells you they should last for 20 years and supports them with a long warranty. Apple makes no such claim, and supports new computers with a one year warranty because they know that complex electronics have many potential points of failure which are not controllable. A gas stove may work for decades because it is almost entirely simple plumbing without many points of failure, and a computer MAY run for that long too-but the statisticians say not to bet on it because of the complexity and unpredictable manner in which users treat, use and abuse computers.

I am not unsympathetic about your computer problem! But the way you presented it did not gain my sympathy because it seemed to be all about "entitlement" rather than "this is a bad situation and how I believe it is a problem". If you had started by pointing out clearly that you felt your customer service experience was very negative and then explained it, it may have changed how I (and others) read the issue. Instead, it's written in a manner that implies (to me at least) that you feel swindled because Apple won't honor an expired warranty.

And thank you for your reply. While I see the cynicism and irony dripping from your words, at least you have neither called me bad names (I can live with "yesman") nor insulted my intelligence. This is a very different experience from others I have had in the past when I (not too carefully, I'll admit) voiced my opinion of someone's posted problems and complaints - which are typically far less literate and well worded than yours. I still hope that you can USE THE SYSTEM to get your computer repaired for free. And I agree that Mr. Rubinstein is either a moron or a fool (either of which should earn him the "ex-vice president" title) for his statement; Apple makes computers with style, but they are almost always extremely good devices as well, and most Apple customers DO know what they want.

Please do let us know how this turns out. I am seriously interested, particularly in whether you get a satisfactory response from Apple in California about your experience with the rude and obnoxious Apple Australia support people.

[charlesjaggers]

Originally Posted by seanc 

What are the symptoms of your eMac? Does it match those stated in the repair program? Looking on Apple Australia, the eMac repair program is still there, Apple - Support - eMac Repair Extension Program for Video and Power Issues

Thankyou for the shortcut to the eMac Repair Extension program. I don't spend much time searching the internet and found it originally by accident, as I stated Apple customer Relations could have been reasonably expected to notify me of it when I reported my difficulty and they immediately asked my Serial number.
The symptom listed and related to my inability to use my computer is "scrambled or distorted video" when the screen freezes.
The issue is that Apple assemble their product in low wage developing countries, Malaysia for product sold in Australia, from components from who knows where. They are not made by tradesmen trained in a first world country. The trade off is a number will show late symptoms of shortcomings, and they have a warranty extension program and a Customer Relations department to address these. If the number of defects increases to a level that cannot be accomodated Management, above the non discretionary face of the corporation we interact with, has to issue guidance so as to protect stock prices without exposing their long term market.
That is why I first asked "Is this familiar terrioty to anybody outside Australia?" I would think Apple is unlikely to make such decisions worldwide if the problem is coming out of Malaysia.
The eMac extension program is directed at a batch, a very very large batch, of logic boards exhibiting symptoms in the repair extension program. The technobabble I have referred to does not occur in the notice, but it leaves an out behind the curtain of an AASP. But why fix any logic board for three years and not fix all. Why have customer disatisfaction by releasing defective logic boards that fail in two years for any reason. This does not apply merely to logic boards, or even computers: other Apple products, particuarily comparitively low cost iPods often rate negative feedback for Apple in Trouble Shooting columns in IT publications. There might not be enough margin in iPods with all the competition which leaves a marketing opening for someone that can manufacture a trouble free product. Computers are a major expenditure, highly competitive and now considered reliable, a major player in the industry should not exhibit such a sneeky and mean small business attitude.
Apple needs major players in its retail chain, They only have small businesses in Australia, they need players who will guarantee the products they sell and sell so many of them Apple would have to have a big business policy.

[charlesjaggers]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I am a retired U.S. Air Force master sergeant currently in grad school. I am neither employed by MacNN nor anyone else at the moment, and I moderate as a volunteer here. I have degrees in instructional systems, electronic systems and computer science, none of which are particularly applicable here. But I do have the ability to see more than one side of an issue. I DO see that you are frustrated and upset by what you see as a problem that Apple has, but I also see that the large business known as Apple Computer Incorporated has its own point of view. And having been "management" for several years, I can see that it is sometimes necessary to not give the customer what he wants because he simply hasn't paid for it.

My analogy to Ford was apparently too literally worded; I did not mean to compare computers to Ford cars. As a side note, I grew up in easy driving distance of their world headquarters, there was a Ford plant in my home town, and I have owned Ford products. But I do not now, nor will I in the future because of their corporate policies, including the way they have "dumbed down" the Jaguar line. Not the "yesman" you envisioned? I agree that your experience with your last Fairlane was, to say the least, "unpleasant," but your extended warranty was from a third party, not Ford, so I do not see that as being comparable to AppleCare (though I see how you might in a "once bitten, twice shy" sense).

Further, you can I hope see that there is a huge difference between a commodity product like a computer (yes, even Apple computers) and a "durable goods" item such as your kitchen appliances; the technology behind a gas range or refrigerator does not change on an 18 month cycle, while computer technology does, and it is quite possible to efficiently use a 20 year old range (or even a 100 year old one), while it is nearly impossible to make any practical use of a 20 year old computer. This is a good point of comparison with your kitchen appliances-their manufacturer tells you they should last for 20 years and supports them with a long warranty. Apple makes no such claim, and supports new computers with a one year warranty because they know that complex electronics have many potential points of failure which are not controllable. A gas stove may work for decades because it is almost entirely simple plumbing without many points of failure, and a computer MAY run for that long too-but the statisticians say not to bet on it because of the complexity and unpredictable manner in which users treat, use and abuse computers.

I am not unsympathetic about your computer problem! But the way you presented it did not gain my sympathy because it seemed to be all about "entitlement" rather than "this is a bad situation and how I believe it is a problem". If you had started by pointing out clearly that you felt your customer service experience was very negative and then explained it, it may have changed how I (and others) read the issue. Instead, it's written in a manner that implies (to me at least) that you feel swindled because Apple won't honor an expired warranty.

And thank you for your reply. While I see the cynicism and irony dripping from your words, at least you have neither called me bad names (I can live with "yesman") nor insulted my intelligence. This is a very different experience from others I have had in the past when I (not too carefully, I'll admit) voiced my opinion of someone's posted problems and complaints - which are typically far less literate and well worded than yours. I still hope that you can USE THE SYSTEM to get your computer repaired for free. And I agree that Mr. Rubinstein is either a moron or a fool (either of which should earn him the "ex-vice president" title) for his statement; Apple makes computers with style, but they are almost always extremely good devices as well, and most Apple customers DO know what they want.

Please do let us know how this turns out. I am seriously interested, particularly in whether you get a satisfactory response from Apple in California about your experience with the rude and obnoxious Apple Australia support people.

REPLY
Us retired people don't have too much time on our hands to be writing all this correspondence but I'll see the week out with this site, beyond that I'm sure no one will bother reading it, and maybe in you I have found a friend.
I mean no offence, laugh don't hate and you will get the spirit in which it is given.
I don't think Apple owes me anything other than to still be around now that I have at least parlially switched to its system. My warning is it may not.
There is two issues here that I hold sacred. One: that both parties abide within the terms of the contract - here Apple owes me nothing. Two: there is an issue of marketing (not selling)- how does Apple and its product wish to be regarded in the marketplace. In this area Apple in Australia is not a big player, though it has its sign on a big building in Frenches Forest not far from where I live. It only uses small business outlets and marketing francises that license small businesses. A large national retailer has a subsiduary it acquired that sell Apple after years of selling only PCs. They say the same as all the small apple signed businesses: "you would have more influence than we would". I am not kidding they behave as though they are bullied by Apple even though they are surprised at my treatment from them. Even you suggest it is my approach - differentiating between the guy you like from the guy you don't. Customer Relations staff are following a manual of instructions , they are not given decisive authority.
Apple still exhibits to me a business operating out of a garage.

[ghporter]

I can see your point. Where you are, you are pretty much at the mercy of the way local (and by that I mean in your part of the world) resellers work and how much they want to help and keep customers. Bad luck for you if they don't feel generous or even civil. On the other hand, I do think that the people in Cupertino WILL read your letter and do so with a positive customer service attitude-it's one of those "home office standards of conduct" things. I had a problem with an iPod that was rejected for mail-in service because of a small dent in the case, and the telephone support people actually suggested that I take it to my local Apple Store for an exchange-which they did without even looking for this (1.5mm diameter) dent. It seems that the telephone support people really WANT to help, and I can't imagine that sort of corporate culture showing up in one support department and not all the others (in Cupertino, anyway).

Good luck.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by charlesjaggers 

He did not mention the emac repair extension Program for default logic boards within my computer serial number. When I presented it, it was rejected by technoblab and the notice of the warrantry extension program was removed from the Apple website.

I find Apple's dealings with me sneeky and mean.

As has been shown, the Extended Repair Program is still very much documented online, as is the fact that it is good for a certain, limited number of symptoms. (This is as close as Apple will ever come to admitting a known issue.) Note that it is NOT a "warranty extension", and Apple are extremely careful with their wording not to imply any such thing, as that would entail a number of legal consequences, probably extending to the repair of your machine, which does not exhibit the symptoms indicative of a known manufacturing issue.

You probably searched the site for "warranty eMac" and didn't find the page again for that reason.

You have my sympathies for your trouble, but in all honesty, complaints about machines being manufactured in second-world countries by employees not trained in first-world education are somewhat misplaced, for the following reasons:

1) The components that fail are hardly touched, let alone assembled, by humans; i.e., premature failure of components is probably due to corner-cutting to hit price point while ostensibly meeting spec, and

2) were they manufactured in "first-world" nations by "first-world" employees, they would cost three times as much - as, in fact, they did, a mere ten years ago. The affordability of computers and their entry into complete ubiquity and the lowest-common-denominator commodity market is a direct result of overseas production, as conversely overseas production and cheaper components, resulting in reduced longevity, are a direct consequence of our unwillingness to pay the prices we did ten years ago.

[charlesjaggers]

Originally Posted by analogika 

As has been shown, the Extended Repair Program is still very much documented online, as is the fact that it is good for a certain, limited number of symptoms. (This is as close as Apple will ever come to admitting a known issue.) Note that it is NOT a "warranty extension", and Apple are extremely careful with their wording not to imply any such thing, as that would entail a number of legal consequences, probably extending to the repair of your machine, which does not exhibit the symptoms indicative of a known manufacturing issue.

You probably searched the site for "warranty eMac" and didn't find the page again for that reason.

You have my sympathies for your trouble, but in all honesty, complaints about machines being manufactured in second-world countries by employees not trained in first-world education are somewhat misplaced, for the following reasons:

1) The components that fail are hardly touched, let alone assembled, by humans; i.e., premature failure of components is probably due to corner-cutting to hit price point while ostensibly meeting spec, and

2) were they manufactured in "first-world" nations by "first-world" employees, they would cost three times as much - as, in fact, they did, a mere ten years ago. The affordability of computers and their entry into complete ubiquity and the lowest-common-denominator commodity market is a direct result of overseas production, as conversely overseas production and cheaper components, resulting in reduced longevity, are a direct consequence of our unwillingness to pay the prices we did ten years ago.

REPLY

Thank you, they are a small minded organisation aren't they.
Where do I buy a reliable computer now?
I have MS Office for Mac and was moving accross, now I have retracted to my Windows 98 machine. Rationalising it, I only realy need Mac for Adobe CS, essential for photography.
Instead of producing a better computer, core business, Apple is now trying to rip off software companies that have made them using their platform. They have gone beyond iPhoto (for jPeg kids?) and now expect Professional photographers to actually pay for a program called "Aperature". It is advertised in Pro mags in Australia and not Amateur photographer's mags, when, or maybe because of, Adobe has now a beta of a new photography program "Lightroom" to try free. This program is fantastic - try the sharpening. Apple should return to what it did best - nurture its customer base and produce a better computer, alas no more.
Apple is using a double Intel chips which allows running MS Windows on a Mac, it can't be far away we should be able to buy a Dell or HP computer that will run Leopard.

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by charlesjaggers 

REPLY

Thank you, they are a small minded organisation aren't they.
Where do I buy a reliable computer now?
I have MS Office for Mac and was moving accross, now I have retracted to my Windows 98 machine. Rationalising it, I only realy need Mac for Adobe CS, essential for photography.
Instead of producing a better computer, core business, Apple is now trying to rip off software companies that have made them using their platform. They have gone beyond iPhoto (for jPeg kids?) and now expect Professional photographers to actually pay for a program called "Aperature". It is advertised in Pro mags in Australia and not Amateur photographer's mags, when, or maybe because of, Adobe has now a beta of a new photography program "Lightroom" to try free. This program is fantastic - try the sharpening. Apple should return to what it did best - nurture its customer base and produce a better computer, alas no more.
Apple is using a double Intel chips which allows running MS Windows on a Mac, it can't be far away we should be able to buy a Dell or HP computer that will run Leopard.

Whilst you are clearly pissed off at apple at the moment.Can you update this thread with your current progress being made with apple.As i stated previously try www.whirlpool.net.au and you will find people in the apple forums who either work for an apple reseller or own there own apple reseller shops.They have assisted many people on the site in dealing with apple Australia.And on a side note i was aware that apple moved its facilities from frenches forest to the sydney CBD.

[charlesjaggers]

Originally Posted by Rob van dam 

Whilst you are clearly pissed off at apple at the moment.Can you update this thread with your current progress being made with apple.As i stated previously try www.whirlpool.net.au and you will find people in the apple forums who either work for an apple reseller or own there own apple reseller shops.They have assisted many people on the site in dealing with apple Australia.And on a side note i was aware that apple moved its facilities from frenches forest to the sydney CBD.

REPLY
Thank you again, I proposed to wind up this track taking with me your recommendations, Next week it is probably time to address this question in the IT section of the press, there is a lead time there, so the week after I'll get back to blogs. I was surprised at the number of participants, and on this site I guess you would expect apologists. A good product would stand up for itself. Apple is not new to me, though I personally just changed. My offspring are at the top of their careers now and Apple computers have always been tool of choice, so they have been part of the furniture here. I have always commented that if Apple is so good why is it represented by such a small market share. When I switched and experienced in full such a superior operating system I thought I had discovered a "secret". There no secrets. I see from this exercise it is the small mindedness not the small size of the Apple organisation. I know the operating system came Apple's way as a bit of opportunism but for large files, artistic/visual applications it guarantees adherents. The system will live on, Apple may not in computers. It appears to be moving towards gagets: iPods, iPhones and iOJjuicers where mass sales of cheap items, not reliability, will produce the stock price.
Will Apple remain a dog in the manger to the death of its operating system, or will it release it to a manufacturer that can make a better computer?
This is the question I entered this site with: "My eMac logic board failed in two years - what to do?