[Karim]

Well I'm on the West coast and I'm in a room with lots of windows. And I'm watching the news about the war which at this point, I guess is inevitable...

I don't wanna move right now. Once I'm done setting it all up I'll move to a darker room.

[Karim]

By the way the texture of the trackpad is very different on the 17" from the tibook. The tibook trackpad is verrrrry smooth, the 17" is slightly grainy/gritty.

[iHanhauser]

Do you have an Air Port Extreme ? If you do, How is the signal.

Thanks

iHanhauser

[Karim]

I do have an AE but I haven't set it up yet, and I'm now less than a minute away from starting her up for the first time!

[Karim]

She is booting up....

[Karim]

Xbench scores coming up...

[doyouflip]

Ohhhhh the drama....

[BrettOZ]

How was the boot time ?

[javabeans]

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
How was the boot time ?

I want one today!

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by BrettOZ:
How was the boot time ?

Yeah, I really wanna know this, and also, pop a DVD in there...any black bars?

[BrettOZ]

I like this - Live Testing/Benchmarking, who needs to wait for those magazine articles

[JayTi]

Not to hijack Karim's thread, but whatever he doesn't get done tonight I'll do tomorrow...I have access to my VX 2000 Sony DV cam so I can take some footage and upload it for ya guys....real life video footage

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by JayTi:
Not to hijack Karim's thread, but whatever he doesn't get done tonight I'll do tomorrow...I have access to my VX 2000 Sony DV cam so I can take some footage and upload it for ya guys....real life video footage

Cool! So you still have a 17" PB? I remember reading in a post that you didn't have yours anymore..

[Patcarla]

did you notice how many people are logged in the PB forum right night!!! unbelievable!!

[javabeans]

Originally posted by Patcarla:
did you notice how many people are logged in the PB forum right night!!! unbelievable!!

How can you find out?

[JayTi]

Patcarla, yup--my own beauty arrived just a couple days ago

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by JayTi:
Patcarla, yup--my own beauty arrived just a couple days ago

Hehe..You kept it quiet on this one...

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by Karim:
Xbench scores coming up...

So?? Results please..

[Karim]

Here are the conditions of the tests:

Both powerbooks 1ghz tibook/sd and 17" powerbook sd have the exact same contents on their drives by using Carbon Copy Cloner.

Both are running Xbench 1.0

Both have airport & bluetooth shut off.

Tibook has 1gb ram, 17" has 512mb - This is the only difference in test conditions but will have an effect.

Both are set in energy saver to max performance

Both have highest resolution settings & colors

There ARE several background drivers running on both for USB devices so this will not affect relative performance but the Xbench scores are a little low because of them if compared to outside systems. The relative differential between MY tibook and MY 17" are what I'm looking at.

Both are plugged into AC

[iHanhauser]

Lets see some pictures ..... And a quality review

[Karim]

Tibook results:

Results 79.71
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 1024 MB
Model PowerBook3,5
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.00 GHz
Version 7455 (Apollo) v3.2
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 667 MHz
L3 Cache 1024K @ 134 MHz
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV250M9
Drive Type FUJITSU MHS2060AT
CPU Test 98.36
GCD Recursion 85.27 3.33 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 94.52 318.58 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 104.17 5.65 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 114.15 5.13 Mops/sec
Thread Test 62.38
Computation 62.25 501.50 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 62.51 784.63 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 98.58
System 93.86
Allocate 115.80 39.04 Kalloc/sec
Fill 129.13 740.49 MB/sec
Copy 64.17 320.87 MB/sec
Stream 103.80
Copy 101.07 441.97 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 102.58 447.56 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 108.17 492.18 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 103.64 455.38 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 117.07
Line 123.15 3.13 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 118.89 8.36 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 132.38 3.05 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 114.27 1.24 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 101.29 1.65 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 96.47
Spinning Squares 96.47 67.51 frames/sec
User Interface Test 103.52
Elements 103.52 35.22 refresh/sec
Disk Test 43.66
Sequential 41.31
Uncached Write 34.94 15.25 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 35.00 14.24 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 93.95 14.80 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 34.49 14.88 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 46.28
Uncached Write 56.50 0.85 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 37.57 8.62 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 50.57 0.33 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 44.78 8.78 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[Karim]

17" results:

Results 93.84
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 512 MB
Model PowerBook5,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.00 GHz
Version 7455 (Apollo) v3.3
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 1000 MHz
L3 Cache 1024K @ 200 MHz
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card GeForce4 MX
Drive Type FUJITSU MHS2060AT
CPU Test 110.85
GCD Recursion 115.24 4.50 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 109.31 368.43 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 105.23 5.71 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 114.22 5.13 Mops/sec
Thread Test 64.25
Computation 62.16 500.73 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 66.50 834.67 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 116.73
System 114.11
Allocate 117.16 39.50 Kalloc/sec
Fill 160.47 920.17 MB/sec
Copy 86.77 433.87 MB/sec
Stream 119.48
Copy 118.44 517.93 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 123.16 537.33 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 122.54 557.54 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 114.23 501.94 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 120.47
Line 125.62 3.20 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 116.74 8.21 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 130.31 3.00 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 115.91 1.26 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 115.24 1.88 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 123.92
Spinning Squares 123.92 86.72 frames/sec
User Interface Test 108.41
Elements 108.41 36.89 refresh/sec
Disk Test 45.59
Sequential 42.09
Uncached Write 37.38 16.31 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 34.44 14.01 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 95.37 15.02 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 34.78 15.00 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 49.73
Uncached Write 62.51 0.94 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 39.72 9.11 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 55.81 0.36 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 46.84 9.18 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[BrettOZ]

Look at those cache differences! amazing speeds!

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Yeah, I really wanna know this, and also, pop a DVD in there...any black bars?

Blah on the numbers right now, how 'bout answering this?

[Patcarla]

Wow.Quite a difference!
I'm a bit surprised by your tibook score. With the same config (and with xbench 1.0) I usually get around 89-90..

[Karim]

Main Sub-system comparisons

Test Tibook Albook 17" Difference
Overall Result 79.71 93.84 18%
CPU 98.36 110.85 13%
Memory 98.58 116.73 18%
System 93.86 114.11 22%
Quartz 117.07 120.47 3%
OpenGL 96.47 123.92 28%
User Interface 103.52 108.41 5%
Disk 43.66 45.59 4%

Average 17" advantage 14%

[BrettOZ]

Interesting the biggest margin is the OpenGL ??

[Karim]

Bus speed 167mhz
l2 cache 256k
l3 cache 1mb

First ram slot full with 512mb ddr sdram sodimm
Second empty

OSX 10.2.4 6J25

NVidia GeForce 4MX

Bluetooth card is hooked into the USB bus

Matshita UJ-815 Superdrive DWDB firmware

Fujitsu MHS2060AT hard drive 60gb

[BrettOZ]

How is that DVD playback karim ?

[Karim]

Using a widescreen DVD still shows some black borders at top and bottom. Although, the disk is an old movie, the original Oceans 11.

I will need to grab one of my more modern DVD's to double check.

[Karim]

Covering both speaker grills with my hands makes the lcd screen dim a little. I can't notice the keys lighting up. Must need to be darker to notice it.

[drainyoo]

Originally posted by Karim:
Bus speed 167mhz
l2 cache 256k
l3 cache 1mb

First ram slot full with 512mb ddr sdram sodimm
Second empty

OSX 10.2.4 6J25

NVidia GeForce 4MX

Bluetooth card is hooked into the USB bus

Matshita UJ-815 Superdrive DWDB firmware

Fujitsu MHS2060AT hard drive 60gb

I CANT WAIT TO GET MINE!! DAMN THIS IS TORTURE!!!!

[BrettOZ]

Curious for you to comment on the Audio too - how are those speakers?

[iHanhauser]

PICTURES ..... REV...

[escher]

Thanks for the live updates, Karim! They are invaluable for those of us who are still waiting. We all appreciate the patience and diligence shown in your posts.

Escher

[AssassyN]

After substantial use, are you satisifed that it doesn't get too hot?

Also, I know you may haven't have had time to check this, but how'd battery life, and what tasks were you doing in the tests, and were power settings enabled?

AHHHHHHHHHH I NEED MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Karim]

On LCD profile in displays and max brightness on both I would have to say that the Tibook is brighter. Although the colors look a little better on the 17"

I'm not much of a color expert. I suppose I should calibrate both and then decide.

But initial impression is the Tibook is slightly brighter.

To me, pixel response "seems" better on the 17"

[bamchum]

Were both machines freshly restarted for those Xbench results? Because I find that my scores--particularly the memory scores--are much higher if I run Xbench first thing after a restart.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Blah on the numbers right now, how 'bout answering this? - pop a DVD in there...any black bars?

You don't need the machine to know the answer to this.

A typical movie is at an aspect ratio of 1.85:1, which is 16:9 - since the 17" PowerBook is 16:10 you'll only end up with teensy black bars.

On the other hand a sci-fi movies (and a lot of megga blockbusters) are extremely wide, 2.35:1, so you'll always end up with thick black bars - they'll just be much thinner on the PowerBook than you would get on a 4:3 television.

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by escher:
Thanks for the live updates, Karim! They are invaluable for those of us who are still waiting. We all appreciate the patience and diligence shown in your posts.

Escher

DEFIINTELY!!!! THANK YOU! We all know you'd rather just go play w/ your new toy w/o us pestering, but your responses are tremendous! Also, have any games, like Quake III, Soldier of Fortune II, RtCW, Ghost Recon, etc.? How's the graphics on any games like this?

[issa]

Thanks for running the tests so quickly, Karim. Look forward to hearing how you find the respective functions, fit and overall experience as you go.

While Karim is bet set up to run a relative test using a similar set-up on his two machines, it will also be interesting to see how the machines line up once we have the exact same OS version running on both, as well as the same amount of memory, etc. And we all know that life with a machine in the real world goes beyond Xbench. Still, as with Patcarla, my 1 GHz normally scores around 89-90 under similar conditions. That is, running Xbench 1.0 under 10.2.4 with some background processes running.

For fun, here's how Xbench just finished on my TiBook:

Results 90.69
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 1024 MB
Model PowerBook3,5
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.00 GHz
Version 7455 (Apollo) v3.2
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 667 MHz
L3 Cache 1024K @ 134 MHz
Bus Frequency 134 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV250M9
Drive Type FUJITSU MHS2060AT
CPU Test 111.54
GCD Recursion 116.79 4.56 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 106.96 360.55 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 107.13 5.81 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 116.07 5.21 Mops/sec
Thread Test 64.29
Computation 63.02 507.68 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 65.61 823.56 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 112.57
System 125.32
Allocate 380.11 128.16 Kalloc/sec
Fill 167.56 960.83 MB/sec
Copy 65.19 325.95 MB/sec
Stream 102.17
Copy 100.72 440.44 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 102.71 448.11 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 104.06 473.49 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 101.26 444.95 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 124.39
Line 125.91 3.21 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 120.15 8.45 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 135.93 3.13 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 118.13 1.28 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 123.31 2.01 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 100.94
Spinning Squares 100.94 70.64 frames/sec
User Interface Test 109.85
Elements 109.85 37.38 refresh/sec
Disk Test 59.76
Sequential 59.43
Uncached Write 54.91 23.96 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 51.50 20.95 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 97.12 15.30 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 51.60 22.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 60.09
Uncached Write 72.54 1.10 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 52.80 12.11 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 58.53 0.38 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 59.68 11.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[Karim]

It's confirmed *NO* bad pixels. Phew!

OK, the keyboard takes getting used to, but I'm beginning to like it. Sound feedback from the keys is muted and tinny whereas the tibook was lower pitched and more solid.

[Karim]

By the way I AM SO HAPPY that the fan on the 17" has yet to turn on after almost 1 hour on. The Tibook's fan finally just turned off, but believe me I think it just did it now because it was ashamed. It usually runs 24x7...

[AssassyN]

The heat still not too bad? How about gaming? Got any 3D games you can run on it just to see if they play smoothly?

[Karim]

Hey guys, I am happy to do this. I know how it feels to wait, and I got lucky today so it is fun to give you a glimpse of your future and do a service to the Mac community that is still deciding. This is what owning a Mac is all about and is proof were a tight knit group.

[Karim]

Heat on bottom of computer is cool to luke warm, left arm rest is cool (it was warmer before, but I was transferring over 50gb of data nonstop at firewire 400 speeds).

No fan on 17" at all.

Next up is RTCW frame rates.

[Karim]

Ok it has gotten a little darker here and if I cover the speaker grilles here is what happens:

Screen dims slightly
The silverish color of the keys change to dark grey
The black coloring of the key icons change to almost the silvery color of the keys

This is happening because there is still some ambient lighting. So the effect is only barely noticeable in brighter lighting.

[Eug]

Your TiBook Xbench numbers are VERY slow. I believe slower than a TiBook 867 in fact. Something is fubared.

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by Karim:
Heat on bottom of computer is cool to luke warm, left arm rest is cool (it was warmer before, but I was transferring over 50gb of data nonstop at firewire 400 speeds).

No fan on 17" at all.

Next up is RTCW frame rates.

AWESOME to hear!!!!! No plaguing heat issues! WOOHOO!!

Too, along w/ frame rates, could you post your actual comments, like how *you* think it plays, as in smoothly, how the graphics look, what resolution(s) you tested at, etc. Too, can you see if playing at resolutions ASIDE from the native one causes the game to look grainy or bad? THANKS!!!

[JayTi]

Originally posted by Eug:
Your TiBook Xbench numbers are VERY slow. I believe slower than a TiBook 867 in fact. Something is fubared.

Woah, thats blatent.