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Podolsky · Jan 11, 2003, 07:11 PM

Is the 17 really that much bigger? Is this extra size and wait a REAL problem? How much more does 2 inches REALLY add? I'd like to hear from folks who own or have played with the 17. Aren't all the posts about it being too big just folks who bought the gigabook right before MacWorld when we told them not to??????

NeoEsper · Jan 11, 2003, 07:25 PM

If you want to compare the sizes, just take a large piece of paper, measure them and cut them to the dimensions that are given on the apple webpage. This is what I did and IMO. The 17 inch is not that much bigger.

Podolsky · Jan 11, 2003, 07:40 PM

Well, I did just that and the paper up to the back of my Tibook screen and voila - IT ISN'T THAT MUCH BIGGER. I was in the market for a Gigabook but if the 17 starts to get a lot of kudos and doesn't seem to suffer to greatly from rev 1.0 woes.....I am going to snap one up. I love big screens

hippy3 · Jan 11, 2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Podolsky:
Well, I did just that and the paper up to the back of my Tibook screen and voila - IT ISN'T THAT MUCH BIGGER. I was in the market for a Gigabook but if the 17 starts to get a lot of kudos and doesn't seem to suffer to greatly from rev 1.0 woes.....I am going to snap one up. I love big screens

exactly... it is not that much bigger...Who know's maybe there won't be a mid range aluminium book! there's food for thought.... I think the 17incher will be a worthy replacement as a pro's choice.

itai195 · Jan 11, 2003, 08:38 PM

Well it weighs 1.4 more pounds than the 15" Ti, and the 15" Ti is already too heavy IMO.

ChrisB · Jan 11, 2003, 09:16 PM

What I think is causing all the commotion is "perception." When you look at it for the first time, you just think that it's BIG. At first, I thought it wasn't a laptop, but a table top! :-)

But you are right, it isn't that much bigger, but it seems so because the keyboard isn't taking up the whole laptop like we are used to.

legionare · Jan 11, 2003, 09:23 PM

Jeebus, the 15" Powerbook weighs 5.3 lbs, one of the lightest full-size laptops. That's "heavy"??? The 17" Powerbook weighs 6.8 lbs, about the same weight as a Wallstreet introduced in 1998. If that's heavy, lift some weight.

fetopher · Jan 11, 2003, 09:43 PM

I dont think the 17" is that much bigger either. I mean its 1.8" larger diagonally. What's that horizontially? Any math wizards out there wanna figure it out? Also I can't image it being much bigger vertically (especially once its opened compared to the 15). The 17" has hinges like the ibook so it drops the screen probably a little more than 3/4" dont ya think? I just traded in my 15 for the 17 and I think its going to be a great portable.

JohnM15141 · Jan 11, 2003, 11:10 PM

I played with the 17" Powerbook at MacWorld and my first impression was it's huge. But, looking closer, I realized this is more of an illusion than a reality that comes from the width. It is very wide but not very deep. As far as the weight goes, it weighs the same as my original iBook which only had a 12.1" screen. This has the exact same screen from the 17" iMac. Most PC's weight this much or more. The Aluminum finish looks very strong and the semi-rough surfaces look like the will resist scratching.

Podolsky · Jan 11, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by hippy3:
Who know's maybe there won't be a mid range aluminium book! there's food for thought....

Indeed. That would be outrageous.

Clearly, Apple is investing heavily in this form factor and by having more versions, they can satisfy new customers as well as the installed base. I don't think I care if they release a 15 or not. But I am going to hold off my opinion until I actually see the 17.

Chris Grande · Jan 12, 2003, 12:33 AM

I want to see this thing in person, I can't wait until it shows up in the Apple Stores.

junkie · Jan 12, 2003, 01:56 AM

I really hope they retain/update the 15" form factor. The 17 is nice for some but too big to whip out in a cafe. The 12 is super compact but I would not want to work on such a small screen for long periods of time.

iDaver · Jan 12, 2003, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by fetopher:
I dont think the 17" is that much bigger either. I mean its 1.8" larger diagonally. What's that horizontially? Any math wizards out there wanna figure it out?

I'm no math wizard but according to the Apple website, the large PowerBook is two inches wider and seven tenths deeper than the medium.

I'll be curious to see if the 15" version gets any heavier (or lighter) when it's revised to match the new aluminum models.

k2director · Jan 12, 2003, 04:38 AM

I would require some serious psychiatric care if Apple didn't update the 15" PowerBook, and instead just stuck with only the 12 and 17" models.

The 12" screen is way too small for me. The 17" is a machine that I could live with, but i don't need all that screen real estate if it means adding 1.4 pounds on my shoulder. So the 15" model is perfect.

I'm pretty sure that Apple understands the need for a 15" model, though. If they're really serious about leading the laptop market as Steve said, then they need to keep a product in the middle ground.

However, we may see that the 15" model doesn't get the fastest CPUs in the future, or lacks some other tweaks that the 17" has (so the 17" always lives up to the 'desktop replacement' positioning). Hope not, but it may be in the cards...

itai195 · Jan 12, 2003, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by legionare:
Jeebus, the 15" Powerbook weighs 5.3 lbs, one of the lightest full-size laptops. That's "heavy"??? The 17" Powerbook weighs 6.8 lbs, about the same weight as a Wallstreet introduced in 1998. If that's heavy, lift some weight.

Why do you think the subnotebook market exists? You try carrying around that 15" Ti and a bunch of college textbooks around all day and see how much you like it. Yes it is one of the lightest full featured notebooks, and I admire it for that, but it's just a tad too heavy for what I'd like.

Axo1ot1 · Jan 12, 2003, 05:28 AM

I'm getting a 17" the day they come out. I played with one extensively at Macworld, and while it was very large compared to my TiBook 550, the screen size is worth it. The display is beautiful. The book seems to be a much more refined design than the already amazing titanium powerbook. I tried to f�ck up the bottom panel with a coin, but I couldn't put a scratch in it. I am so in love. The only bad thing about it is that it's incompatible with coach seating on airplanes. This was a problem with the TiBook too, but to a lesser extent. This powerbook will be totally unruly on a plane. Maybe I should get a 12" too and always boot from a firewire disk

seanyepez · Jan 12, 2003, 06:02 AM

In a perfect world, I would have a 12-inch PowerBook to compliment my 15-inch PowerBook for times when 1,280 by 854 pixels of screen real estate is not necessary.

Personally, I prefer the RADEON 9000 Mobility to the nVIDIA GeForce4 Go. The GeForce4 Go is based on the GeForce4 MX, the budget nVIDIA card that is, in turn, a GeForce2 with DDR. The RADEON 9000 is to the GeForce3 just as the RADEON 7500 is to the GeForce2. It has programmable pixel shaders being a hacked down version of a RADEON 8500, ATi's direct competition for nVIDIA's GeForce3 cards when they were the top-end solution.

seanyepez · Jan 12, 2003, 07:59 AM

I know they're a bit big, but I'm too lazy to create another gallery.

www4.macnn.com/macnn/mwsf03/15on17/

seanyepez · Jan 12, 2003, 08:00 AM

For those who don't want to download megabyte-sized images without knowing what they are, they're pictures of my 15-inch PowerBook on top of a 17-inch PowerBook.

hippy3 · Jan 12, 2003, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
For those who don't want to download megabyte-sized images without knowing what they are, they're pictures of my 15-inch PowerBook on top of a 17-inch PowerBook.

Thanks sean..... The 17incher doesnt look all that big when you see them together like that! so what if it's a bit wider.. It's no monster that's for sure....

mrmister · Jan 12, 2003, 08:39 AM

Good job getting those photos--it seems like the issue is width more than anything else. Hmmmm.

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Apple will not issue a new 15 inch model--that's exactly the kind of weird move they seem to make every year or so, and I can easily imagine them making all the happy 15" owners having to lug 1.5 more lbs.

DaedalusDX · Jan 12, 2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by mrmister:
Good job getting those photos--it seems like the issue is width more than anything else. Hmmmm.

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Apple will not issue a new 15 inch model--that's exactly the kind of weird move they seem to make every year or so, and I can easily imagine them making all the happy 15" owners having to lug 1.5 more lbs.

Man... that would go a long way to confuse an already messy laptop line.

You'd have a huge jump between a $1799 or $1999 12" Powerbook to a $3299 17" Powerbook... really svelt, or really huge.

I imagine that the mid range 15.2" display will be around for some time... whether they upgrade the existing Titanium, or design a new enclosure (Aluminum maybe) around that 15.2" display is up in the air.

Frankly, I haven't seen the 17" Powerbook yet, but I'm still pretty awe-stricken by the Titanium. It is a sweet spot for price, portability, and performance for plenty of people. (whee... aliteration)

And hey... it ain't heavy... not for its size and capability anyway. And its big in the GOOD way... X and Y... not in the bad way, Z.

Heck... those 2 Tibook clones from Best Buy and that other company whose name eludes me at the moment try to copy the Titanium with the same screen and slot load combo drive, but fall short by being bigger in every dimension and heavier.

Yup... still love the titanium.

Podolsky · Jan 12, 2003, 09:43 AM

Hey, Sean those photos are super-thanks. Even though I have always felt that the 15 was just 10% too big, I am still a candidate, a strong one for the 17 inch as a desktop replacement and occasional traveler. By the way, the 15 inch in coach does suck, the ergonmics go to hell and the risk of the dreaded seat-back crunch too real. What I do is forgo the tray, crank MY seat back and work the 15 on my lap....I think that would do just fine for the 17 too......

hippy3 · Jan 12, 2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by mrmister:

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Apple will not issue a new 15 inch model--that's exactly the kind of weird move they seem to make every year or so, and I can easily imagine them making all the happy 15" owners having to lug 1.5 more lbs.

same here. I wouldn't be at all suprised. I reckon they'll keep the tiBook going for the moment though...

iDaver · Jan 12, 2003, 06:15 PM

It would be just plain crazy if Apple didn't upgrade and continue to make the medium size PowerBook. It has been very popular. Remember the great reviews Steve talked about when he was about to introduce the new models?

They'll do it and I don't think it'll take long. I'll bet it's already in the pipe.

Podolsky · Jan 12, 2003, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by iDaver:
It would be just plain crazy if Apple didn't upgrade and continue to make the medium size PowerBook. It has been very popular. Remember the great reviews Steve talked about when he was about to introduce the new models?

They'll do it and I don't think it'll take long. I'll bet it's already in the pipe.

I agree with iDaver. Apple is doing to well with the PB line and these new offerings give them the choices that switchers and installed base will love. The 15 anchors the offerings and will continue to be the core of the sales. I think the new 15 is in the pipeline. I also think it will be built around the same materials and architecture of the 17. Making for great new 15 and for great options to pick up last great Tis........

seanyepez · Jan 12, 2003, 06:42 PM

I like the 15-inch PowerBook the best. I don't really like how Apple's moving the ports to the sides of the unit. In my opinion, that makes things ugly.

I've heard March, but my individual experience tells me May or June. They won't get rid of the 15-inch unit.

Podolsky · Jan 12, 2003, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I like the 15-inch PowerBook the best. I don't really like how Apple's moving the ports to the sides of the unit. In my opinion, that makes things ugly.

I've heard March, but my individual experience tells me May or June. They won't get rid of the 15-inch unit.

Guess dates requires staring a little deeper into the crystal ball than I like. But, if Apple is serious about a 3 PB lineup, I think the 15 should come very soon - like the March date you heard. I also agree with iDave thatf the 15 is probably designed already benifitting from the 17 project.

eole · Jan 12, 2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I like the 15-inch PowerBook the best. I don't really like how Apple's moving the ports to the sides of the unit. In my opinion, that makes things ugly.

I guess that to put the port on the sides is the right answer to the very poor [noisy] ventilation of the late 867 or GH.

Sean did you manage to check on the fans of the 17" or the 12" ?

skyman · Jan 12, 2003, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I like the 15-inch PowerBook the best. I don't really like how Apple's moving the ports to the sides of the unit. In my opinion, that makes things ugly.

I've heard March, but my individual experience tells me May or June. They won't get rid of the 15-inch unit.

If they go with the new hinge design they will have no choice but to place the ports on the side. I agree, that would be ugly.

Also, I don't think the new 15" is that far off. I feel that current inventory is the only thing hold back the new 15". IMO.

Podolsky · Jan 12, 2003, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by eole:
I guess that to put the port on the sides is the right answer to the very poor [noisy] ventilation of the late 867 or GH.

Sean did you manage to check on the fans of the 17" or the 12" ?

I would like some ports on the side just not sure which ones. If side ports would translate into less fan time, wouldn't that be worth it it???

TonTaub · Jan 12, 2003, 09:21 PM

I played around with my Bertelsmann Atlas as a stand-in for the 17" and found it rather comfortable sitting on the couch and fiddling around (well, it was a huge book, but lighter than the PB).
Doing this another question came up:

How far can you move back the screen of the 17" AluBook? Could one lay it virtually flat (180�)?

Thanks,
Michael.

PS: IMO the lit keyboard must be a killer feature for studio guys!?!?

DVD Plaza · 09:59 PM

Originally posted by TonTaub:
IMO the lit keyboard must be a killer feature for studio guys!?!?

I'm looking forward to DVD reviewing with it. I review using a projector and hence in a dark room, and whilst I touch type I fumble with the keyboard when editing/formatting text and/or typing numbers/symbols/etc.

VERY much looking forward to the backlit keyboard - I never thought they'd actually do it, can't wait

xMetal · Jan 13, 2003, 11:56 AM

I will be getting a 17" at work, and it will be my main machine. I've been working exclusively on my 400Mz TiBook for months, and I do things like 3d animation, video editing, and heavy-duty Photoshop work, and while not super speedy, the TiBook has worked great so far. With the faster memory, faster CPU, the larger/ higher resolution screen with more video RAM, the light-up keyboard, etc the 17" is going to be perfect. I come into the office everyday, plug in my mouse, 120GB firewire drive and 2nd monitor and I'm ready to work. Unplug all that, take it home. It's a beautiful thing, and I'm sure the slight increase in size and weight will be worth it.

Podolsky · Jan 13, 2003, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by xMetal:
I will be getting a 17" at work, and it will be my main machine. I've been working exclusively on my 400Mz TiBook for months, and I do things like 3d animation, video editing, and heavy-duty Photoshop work, and while not super speedy, the TiBook has worked great so far. With the faster memory, faster CPU, the larger/ higher resolution screen with more video RAM, the light-up keyboard, etc the 17" is going to be perfect. I come into the office everyday, plug in my mouse, 120GB firewire drive and 2nd monitor and I'm ready to work. Unplug all that, take it home. It's a beautiful thing, and I'm sure the slight increase in size and weight will be worth it.

You sound like a perfect candidate to really benefit from the 17. Heck, if you are as appreciative of you 400Mz TiBook - you're gonna love the nearly 3-fold speed bump you'll see when you go to 1GhZ with a 167Mz bus! When you get it, be sure to logon and tell us what you think. I am currently using a Rev B 667 (not DVI) and while I like it fine, it is not enough power for me - I do a lot of scientific imaging. So, I am looking to upgrade too.