[Anders]

How do you think about this question?

In some cultures family and community plays a much larger role than it does in our (and in our I mean all countries that have net access and a general population able to buy macs). It is even said that in some cultures there isn�t a word for "I" (meaning that the people have a hard time even grasping the idea of the individual). But does that mean that it should be accepted that individual rights less importent there? Please make arguments for you position.

[ManOfSteal]

"Anders: Perhaps the lowest Posts/DaysRegistered rate on MacNN"

Discuss.

[Anders]

Originally posted by manofsteal:
"Anders: Perhaps the lowest Posts/DaysRegistered rate on MacNN"

Discuss.

Ahem. What?

[milkmanchris]

Man of.....


Anders post, obviously took a lot of thought

[BlueSky]

"manofsteal:(formerly known as gorickey)"

Discuss.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Anders:
How do you think about this question?

In some cultures family and community plays a much larger role than it does in our (and in our I mean all countries that have net access and a general population able to buy macs). It is even said that in some cultures there isn�t a word for "I" (meaning that the people have a hard time even grasping the idea of the individual). But does that mean that it should be accepted that individual rights less importent there? Please make arguments for you position.

The answer to your question is here.

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by Bluesky:
Discuss.

I'd say it already has been...

[DeathToWindows]

Depends on the upbringing... there is a lot of cultural variance in individuality, but I would say that we are all individauls on some level...

[Cohiba]

Really depends. Some cultures see individually as a bad thing, as it can cause a host of problems to a contiguous whole. It all depends on how conservative your culture is. What I find interesting is how people always try to give "special" meanings to the words conservative and liberal. Liberal just means wanting to change things, conservative means wanting things to stay the same. People who want things to stay the same have to get their ideas from someone else, so conservatism is all about conforming.

For example, in Japan people are for the most part very conservative. Same thing goes for men and women in the military. This has some bad things as people usually think of themselves as a "cog in the machine of life". A lot of times, individually is suppressed, as it means that you do not want to be part of a group. However, there are many pros as well.

Although some people have the "cog in the machine" feeling, many people enjoy the fact that they are part of something better. Lets be honest, if you ever worked with a large group of people to complete one very large goal, you feel good that you took a part in it. Individually gives the feeling of autonomy, but can also make people feel lonely. As people are social animals, most people like to be with and to work with people. Even young teens like to be liberal (in groups) but conservative (as people in a click act and dress the same).

Also, individually in cultures has the problem of removing tradition. If you travel around the world, cultures with a rich set of traditions and culture are usually conservative. Look around Kyoto, Japan and the idea of Japanese culture is usually enough for people to ooh and aah. The reason why is all of that culture was created during a time in Japanese history that people were forced to think in the same. Wanting to be an individual means that you did not "want" to be part of the group. A sort of "with us or against us" mentality.

Travel to New York City however, the culture changes every decade. Everyone is different. It is a completely different experience as everyone seems to want to lash out with their distinctive personality.

I am about in the middle. What I find sad is people who seem to want to target and destroy any rich culture that their countries have. America is a good example. Although I do not believe in Christianity, I find it funny that people do not want to learn anything about it. Being atheist is good, but to not want to even crack open the book that has had such an impact on human history is just a tad bit fatuous to me.

Just as I do not believe in Buddhism, Shinto or Islam, seeing shrines, temples and mosques are amazing. What many people do not know in America is when foreigners come to your nation, seeing churches and cathedrals also amaze them. I try to learn about religion (even my native religion, although I also do not believe in it) as it links me to where I have come from. People in other countries should at least to the same, unless you think learning about religious will, gasp, turn you religious.

Any tradition worth having usually has a spiritual element. And because most of mankind's history has been religious it would be easy to attain the ideal that most of our tradition is based on religion too. For example, in America people went to a large fracas to remove a statue of the ten commandments from a city capital. Singing Christmas carols is look down upon on some schools, and while I disbelieve in making children pray, saying they cannot practice their believes, or traditions is the equivalent of telling children they cannot practice Shakespeare or any other form of classic ideas. Some people in America (and this forum shows this idea in writing) are tradition-phobic. If it is what your parents did, it is "uncool" or "old". It is "dragging you down". Tradition has a strong power to unite generations. Spending time in Japan, or India you feel that people are connected to their parents and other generations, the same is not true in Germany or America.

But, this thread is all about conformity, so I digress. When I lived in Japan for a few years it was seemed as a bad thing to declare yourself as an individual. For instance, in English you have I and me. In Japanese you have Watashi. Most of the time people just leave out subjects on their sentences as people just take things in context. But, people should use a passive tone whenever possible. You should not say, I like this, or I want to go here. It should be, this is good, or lets go here together. Around Tokyo, people are having a stronger sense if individually, but it is nowhere as liberal as America. Going to school with Japanese people, asking then to stand in front of class and talk usually produces a very nervous person.

I would say America is a very "me oriented" society. This has major problems as people who always think about me, will usually do what is best for me. In Japan, crime is low, and people are very helpful as it is all about us. A good mix is necessary, people should question "us" but choose to be part of "us". But at the same time, a good amount of "me" helps expand "us" as different "me's" makes a very unique and colorful "us", if that makes any sense. Now, if everyone were completely conservative, we would still be living in caves. As an inverse, if everyone were completely liberal, people would change so often, nothing would mature and no one would be able to link themselves to what they or their friends believed the day before. As an example, imagine if computers changed so often that a new computer you bought yesterday was completely obsolete the next day to the point that it could not even connect to the internet anymore. If you needed a new computer every day chances are everything people would buy would be very cheap and without quality. Another ideas is that people would not even be able to converse with their children (as language would change too), which seems to be a problem now as the language changes constantly with slang and pop-culture verbage.

A good mix is necessary, as with all things.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Anders:
But does that mean that it should be accepted that individual rights less importent there? Please make arguments for you position.

"individualism" is a social concept, which is becoming increasingly popular all over the world.

what you or anybody "accepts" is a choice you'll have to make for yourself.

[wolfen]

I read a couple of research articles on this issue. One discovery is that the same mental health counseling/therapies used to assist people in the west are actually destructive in India, for example. When you start emphasizing individual drives and motives with people whose identity is developed in terms of social roles, a serious personality crisis develops. When you help these people in the context of their social roles with the cooperation of their loved ones, things gets better quickly.

I would argue that the idea of an individual operating alone is more fantasy than reality, and contributes to as many disorders as it appears to resolve. Social isolation and depression are rampant in countries that emphasize individuality over community.