[besson3c]

finboy: maybe the tea party is what we need to move towards a better system that isn't based on two parties?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by finboy 

When we're not in the middle of a Black Swan economic event maybe?

If republicans have been campaigning that they have the magic cure, I missed it. Or any cure, for that matter.

Originally Posted by finboy 

When we have to decide what hill to die on every four years when putting the national platform together? There are lots of things broiling under the big tent, but that's just family business.

That sounds like having a discussion, not splitting the base.

Originally Posted by finboy 

Have a healthy debate, but ultimately the party with the seats runs the show. Losing seats now is just dumb.

Politically I don't see how there's a "smart" time to lose seats. The system in place now, though, really gets what it deserves. Doing what you think is right (voting your conscience) is considered a general waste of time, if not counter-productive to your beliefs, if it doesn't support one of the major parties, and really, we deserve to be as ****ed as we are because of that.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

finboy: maybe the tea party is what we need to move towards a better system that isn't based on two parties?

I agree that the folks in DC are worthless, almost all of them, in both parties. But I'm not sure there is a better way to get them there than a two-party system.

For the folks actually participating in the Tea Party movement, I understand their angst. And one should always vote one's conscience. The net effect, however, is not going to be favorable for conservatives in the short- or long-term, I'm afraid.

The long-term positive this might have will be to make those who are there now more responsive and responsible, and perhaps recruit some fresh faces that are a little less in the pocket of lobbyists and a little more principled. It might convince the party structure that they have to take mass dissent seriously. That's always a good thing - keep 'em guessing (the party bosses, I mean).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by finboy 

I agree that the folks in DC are worthless, almost all of them, in both parties. But I'm not sure there is a better way to get them there than a two-party system.

What makes you feel that a two party system is the best possible system?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What makes you feel that a two party system is the best possible system?

Nope, you started it - what makes you feel that something other than a two-party system would work better?

What is this "better system that isn't based on two parties" of which you speak, Wise One? More than one example would help, if you have them. And please point out their major accomplishments (freeing the world of Nazi tyranny, equality of opportunity for all citizens, etc.) if they're somehow unique.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Nope, you started it - what makes you feel that something other than a two-party system would work better?

What is this "better system that isn't based on two parties" of which you speak, Wise One? More than one example would help, if you have them. And please point out their major accomplishments (freeing the world of Nazi tyranny, equality of opportunity for all citizens, etc.) if they're somehow unique.

What's with the sarcasm and mockery? No need to refer to me as "wise one".

More than two parties:

- minority and majority governments
- allegiances to overrule the elected government on particular issues
- the likely end to silly fillibusters
- discourse with the potential to be less x and contrasting x (y) and more choices for voters

If we are going to go this route why not bring a vote of no confidence possibility into the picture? It seems ridiculous that the public has to wait out a president that has 15% approval (or whatever it was that Bush had towards the end of his second term).

I'm not sure what listing accomplishments does here. There is no way of telling whether our accomplishments would have been possible under a different system of government. I don't think it's a given that they wouldn't be with all else being the same.

[BadKosh]

The Tea party gets it's power from the numbers of folks who turn out to voice opposition to the current idiots running our country. The left doesn't understand the anger or frustration the right has for the failed Obama policies and the irresponsible spending and the lack of results the spending produced, since they still suffer the effects of all that cool aid they drank in '08. The number of votes the Tea party can generate means that they are being listened to now. This shows how out of touch the political hacks in DC really are, and how out of touch the Democrat 'leaders' are. I hope none of them can sleep at night.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

No need to refer to me as "wise one".

That's for sure.

[BadKosh]

Obviously, the Germans noticed...

The World from Berlin: 'Obama Has Underestimated the Frustration in the Country' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

'Obama Has Underestimated the Frustration in the Country'

The dramatic ascent of the Tea Party continued in America this week, with the conservative movement scoring another surprise victory in the Republican primary in Delaware. German editorialists digested the news on Thursday and warned that both Republicans and Democrats were right to feel uneasy.

Even a few weeks ago, it was considered impossible that the Tea Party favorite Christine O'Donnell would win the primary in Delaware. She was long seen as being too far to the right to woo enough votes. On Tuesday, such predictions were consigned to the trash when O'Donnell beat a veteran congressman to secure the Republican nomination in the Delaware race for the US Senate.

The Tea Party movement has won a succession of Republican primaries, with its conservative, anti-establishment candidates. O'Donnell is known for her pro-gun, anti-abortion stance, as well as her belief that masturbation is a sin.

In the Delaware primary, O'Donnell got 53 percent of the vote, ousting Mike Castle, a long-standing politician who has represented his party as a state governor and in Congress.

Palin-Backed

"The people of Delaware have spoken. No more politics as usual," O'Donnell told enthusiastic fans after results came out. "The cause is restoring America."

In the weeks running up to her victory, O'Donnell gained publicity with endorsements from Sarah Palin, the former Republican vice presidential candidate, and the National Rifle Association.

Recent weeks have brought a string of successes for the Tea Party. In another boost to the grassroots movement, Carl Paladino, its candidate in New York, surprised pundits by wining the Republican nomination to run for governor in November.

The Tea Party movement has enjoyed a comet-like rise since last year. It provides a haven for voters for whom the mainstream Republican Party is not conservative enough, and its popularity is widely attributed to dissatisfaction with US President Barack Obama and frustration with the lackluster US economy. Many observers expect its rise will force the Repubican Party to move further to the right.

On Thursday, German editorialists look at what the latest victory means for US politics.

The center-right Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung writes:

"The spectacular successes of the grassroots conservative movement could turn out to be a political boomerang for the opposition Republicans, whose chances for the midterm elections were looking good or even very good. The Republicans will now be drawn further and further towards the right, meaning that they will no longer be an option for non-ideological voters who are disillusioned with the Democrats. In this way the Republicans could jeopardize their own future success. The Democrats' best campaigner isn't Obama, but rather the anti-establishment front of its opponent."

The conservative daily Die Welt writes:

"This sort of nomination is intended as a putsch against the Republican establishment, but it doesn't solve the Democrats' problems. They are threatened by a massive loss of support in the midterm elections, where the whole House of Representatives and a third of the Senate and a large chunk of the governor posts are up for grabs. But the Republicans' goal is to regain the majority in both houses of Congress. If they fail to accomplish this double whammy, the Democrats can breathe a sigh of relief."

The business daily Handelsblatt writes:

"Glen Beck, Sarah Palin and the Tea Party are part of an opposition movement outside of Congress which is moving mountains. This is a revolt against 'Obamaism,' which is seen as representing big government, more taxes, a higher deficit and not enough 'Americanism.' Day by day, it puts more and more pressure onto those at the top."

"In the US, people ... spend time and money supporting the Republicans. Unlike in Germany, in America, which never had a Hitler, being 'right-wing' is not taboo. 'Right-wing' represents Reagan, religion, the free market, individualism, patriotism and small government. In reality, it is an impossible mixture: National pride, God and tradition are conservative 'us' values. The profit motive, competition and a weak state are 'me-first' sentiments ... . But this mixture of conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- that's the difference to Germany."

The center-left Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:

"The success of the Tea Party candidate Christine O'Donnell does not bode well for the Republicans, nor for the Democrats (even if they see it differently at the moment), nor for the whole American political machine."

"Obama has underestimated the frustration in the country and the power of the Tea Party movement, which gives the prevailing disillusionment a platform and a voice. It is by far the most vibrant political force in America. Obama's left-of-center coalition, which got young people and intellectuals involved and which appealed to a majority of women, blacks and Latinos, has evaporated into nothing."

"The new right, though, is on the rise. It sets the agenda. America is facing a shift to the right. The Republicans have already marched in this direction of their own accord, regardless how many Tea Party reactionaries get a seat and a voice in Congress in November. The Democrats and the president have been put totally on the defensive. From now on they will only be able to react, rather than act."

-- Jess Smee

[ort888]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

The Tea party gets it's power from the numbers of folks who turn out to voice opposition to the current idiots running our country. The left doesn't understand the anger or frustration the right has for the failed Obama policies and the irresponsible spending and the lack of results the spending produced, since they still suffer the effects of all that cool aid they drank in '08. The number of votes the Tea party can generate means that they are being listened to now. This shows how out of touch the political hacks in DC really are, and how out of touch the Democrat 'leaders' are. I hope none of them can sleep at night.

I know man. Everything was just perfect until January 20th, 2009, when a cloud of darkness rolled over America and everything changed overnight. I don't even recognize the country anymore.

It used to look like a scene from Snow White, with woodland critters singing and flittering about, everyone employed, everyone happy... now there are shock troopers in the street, and I pay 90% of my income in taxes. Well, I would if I hadn't lost my job and been forced to move into an Obama re-education camp with my entire family.

WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE COUNTRY I LOVE?!????

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

--Eliminate the NEA and NEH.

Why?

[The Final Dakar]

Because they're in the liberal wheelhouse, duh.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What's with the sarcasm and mockery? No need to refer to me as "wise one".

More than two parties:

- minority and majority governments
- allegiances to overrule the elected government on particular issues
- the likely end to silly fillibusters
- discourse with the potential to be less x and contrasting x (y) and more choices for voters

No disrespect or sarcasm meant. I figured you had a mind full of info to give, and I was right. Thanks for responding.

Most of the advantages you list already occur in our government, and have produced some real progress in the past. True that we don't have the "vote of no confidence" option, and maybe we should, but that's not how we're set up anyway, and more than two parties won't change that.

So it's something to think about that I've never really paid any attention to. Not since PolySci 101 anyway.

[BadKosh]

We do need a way to remove a bad politician ASAP, instead of waiting for the corrupt politicians to impeach and remove them. Same for Judges. At least a review of their judgments every 2 years, and if too many technical mistakes were made, removal.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

too many technical mistakes were made, removal.

Hahahaha

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by finboy 

No disrespect or sarcasm meant. I figured you had a mind full of info to give, and I was right. Thanks for responding.

Most of the advantages you list already occur in our government, and have produced some real progress in the past. True that we don't have the "vote of no confidence" option, and maybe we should, but that's not how we're set up anyway, and more than two parties won't change that.

So it's something to think about that I've never really paid any attention to. Not since PolySci 101 anyway.

I don't think that most of the advantages do occur already...

We sort of have a minority government when different parties control different things, but more often than not our parties vote on party lines these days, so we get a lot of these silly political games occurring on both sides. If one party controlled 40% of government and two others controlled the remaining 60% when combined, that party controlling 40% would have to secure votes from these other parties rather than just making sure that everybody in their own party will vote the same way. These two other parties would have to have a contrasting set of constituents, and if one of them controls 10% they would probably need a good reason to vote a certain way based on a coherent platform - just wanting to spoil potential legislation would probably not be a winning long-term strategy.

There already are at least three sets of constituents in this country: left, right, and center. What has happened historically is that the left and right pander to the extreme ends of their party while trying to manufacture a more palatable image for the moderates in the center (where all the votes are) for elections. The moderates are usually the ones who seem to have the weakest voice when there isn't an election. It would be great if there was actually a party that was built to represent those moderates. I can't see this happening in today's climate, which is one reason why politics is often so incredibly unreasonable, I feel.

[Kerrigan]

Here is what I predict the Tea Party (and the country) is going to do over the next several years.

This year, congress is taking a hard right turn, thanks to the Tea Party movement.

Because Republicans fail to take hold of the senate, Obama is going to keep pushing through legislation that further depresses the economy. By 2011, the economy has officially "double-dipped" and voter anger is even higher than it is now.

In 2012, there are still no solid signs of an economic recovery. The Tea Party movement drives a Republican takeover of the senate and the presidency.

(Brace yourselves)
In 2013: massive government cuts, healthcare repeal, mass deportation of illegals, interest rate hikes, deflation, serious economic contraction (basically akin to the early years of Thatcher). By 2014 America is at the verge of popular revolt. By 2016, the economy starts to rebound. By 2017, the economy is healthy again and things settle down.

[stumblinmike]

Boy, I hope you're wrong! That's pretty grim stuff. On a happier note, I just finished watching Christine O'Donnell at the "Values" Voter Summit.. Wow, she's a real looker! Palin, O'Donnell...that Tea Party rocks!!!

[BadKosh]

I see the Dems are no longer hiding the fact that everything they are doing is a joke. Stephen Colbert - in character will be interviewed regarding illegal immigration n such. So much for the claim that Democrats were mature adults, and not immature left-wing nutjobs.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedi....html?showall#

[BadKosh]

Even more examples of the Jerkdom of the Left:

Elizabeth Warren: First Amendment Right 'Scares Me', Needs 'Dialing Back'
By Mark Finkelstein

Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . .the right of the people . . . to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. -- First Amendment to the Constitution

Remember the MSM brouhaha when some conservatives suggested reconsidering the automatic granting of citizenship to children born in the US to illegal immigrants? Suddenly, the sanctity of the 14th Amendment became the single most precious thing to liberals—even though no amendment of it, let alone its abolition, would have been necessary to revise the policy on birthright citizenship.

So should we expect the liberal media to take up its constitutional cudgel against Elizabeth Warren? After all, Pres. Obama's newly appointed [not nominated] head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau went on Morning Joe today and in effect proclaimed that the right to petition government for the redress of government "scares" her. More disturbingly, Warren suggested we need to work on "dialing back" that right.

To be sure, Warren never cited the First Amendment or the right it established to "petition government for a redress of grievances." But read and listen to her words: that's exactly what she was kvetching about—and wanting to "dial back."

NewsBusters.org | Exposing Liberal Media Bias

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Even more examples of the Jerkdom of the Left:

Elizabeth Warren: First Amendment Right 'Scares Me', Needs 'Dialing Back'
By Mark Finkelstein

Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . .the right of the people . . . to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. -- First Amendment to the Constitution

Remember the MSM brouhaha when some conservatives suggested reconsidering the automatic granting of citizenship to children born in the US to illegal immigrants? Suddenly, the sanctity of the 14th Amendment became the single most precious thing to liberals—even though no amendment of it, let alone its abolition, would have been necessary to revise the policy on birthright citizenship.

So should we expect the liberal media to take up its constitutional cudgel against Elizabeth Warren? After all, Pres. Obama's newly appointed [not nominated] head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau went on Morning Joe today and in effect proclaimed that the right to petition government for the redress of government "scares" her. More disturbingly, Warren suggested we need to work on "dialing back" that right.

To be sure, Warren never cited the First Amendment or the right it established to "petition government for a redress of grievances." But read and listen to her words: that's exactly what she was kvetching about—and wanting to "dial back."

NewsBusters.org | Exposing Liberal Media Bias

Why don't you tell us what *you* think, rather than just regurgitating the thoughts of someone else? If she doesn't *actually* cite the First Amendment, what *does* she say?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I see the Dems are no longer hiding the fact that everything they are doing is a joke. Stephen Colbert - in character will be interviewed regarding illegal immigration n such. So much for the claim that Democrats were mature adults, and not immature left-wing nutjobs.

Colbert to testify before Congress - On Media - POLITICO.com

Wrong thread? Or do you just not know what's going on?

[BadKosh]

You mean Colbert and 'Stewart' doing their parody of Becks gathering? That Colbert is doing his congressional testimony as a fictional character? That the Dems think this is somehow acceptable? Seems to suggest that the Democrats are the ones with the serious problems.

[andi*pandi]

Last I checked, this is America, right?

[hyteckit]

Stephen Colbert is God.

[hyteckit]

Now that we allow the Tea Party to have their tea time, it's time for the Democrats to bring out the artillery and start campaigning.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You mean Colbert and 'Stewart' doing their parody of Becks gathering? That Colbert is doing his congressional testimony as a fictional character? That the Dems think this is somehow acceptable? Seems to suggest that the Democrats are the ones with the serious problems.

Stewart and Colbert are a satire on modern media, I thought that was painfully obvious. Even if Colbert does a Congressional hearing in character it'll mean more than any blowhard media info-tainer pretending their sack of bullshit is the truth.

Do you watch either show? Or are you content to label it Liberal media without actually understanding what its point is? is the fact they lampoon all mainstream media outlets uncomfortable for you, since that's where so much of your talking points come from?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You mean Colbert and 'Stewart' doing their parody of Becks gathering? That Colbert is doing his congressional testimony as a fictional character? That the Dems think this is somehow acceptable? Seems to suggest that the Democrats are the ones with the serious problems.

Every politician at the national level is in character.

[screener]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Stephen Colbert - in character will be interviewed regarding illegal immigration n such.

In character, a stereotypical right winger.
The stereotype is sometimes, mostly close to the truth, and that's why he's so good at his job.
You really should listen to yourself.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Last I checked, this is America, right?

When did you check ?

Looking at Amaraca in the last 20 years, it doesn't look like George Washington's or Abe Lincoln's America at all. Heck, it looks like all that Marx ever dreamed America would be.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

When did you check ?

Looking at Amaraca in the last 20 years, it doesn't look like George Washington's or Abe Lincoln's America at all. Heck, it looks like all that Marx ever dreamed America would be.

-t

...and yet, you chose to move here.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

...and yet, you chose to move here.

Personally, I would've gone with "America - love it or leave it, you hippie freak!"
/lulz

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You mean Colbert and 'Stewart' doing their parody of Becks gathering? That Colbert is doing his congressional testimony as a fictional character? That the Dems think this is somehow acceptable? Seems to suggest that the Democrats are the ones with the serious problems.

Yeah..."Stewart."

[andi*pandi]

I think it's another thread to talk about why someone in the entertainment business may have wanted to change their name from "Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz" to Jon Stewart, and why someone may have issue with that.

[The Final Dakar]

Very perceptive, andi, I don't think I'd have figured that out.

Of course, the fact that there are people out there who feel the need to use quotes when using Stewart's name, to me reinforces whatever thinking he had when he changed it.

[Laminar]

B HUSSEIN OBAMA allcaps

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Stewart and Colbert are a satire on modern media, I thought that was painfully obvious. Even if Colbert does a Congressional hearing in character it'll mean more than any blowhard media info-tainer pretending their sack of bullshit is the truth.

Do you watch either show? Or are you content to label it Liberal media without actually understanding what its point is? is the fact they lampoon all mainstream media outlets uncomfortable for you, since that's where so much of your talking points come from?

Bla bla bla... Been following the antics of Colbert since "Strangers with Candy." He shouldn't be sitting for an interview with a congressional committee. Perhaps, since the entire last 2 years of Democratic mismanagement and incompetence now they are openly being the joke we knew they were.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Yeah..."Stewart."

If that is his real name.....Oh, wait...it ISN'T!

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

If that is his real name.....Oh, wait...it ISN'T!

So whats the problem?

You do know a lot of people in teh showbiz don't use their real name, right?

[osiris]

Osiris isn't my real name. I just thought I should be honest with you guys.

[The Final Dakar]

I've had my name legally challenged with each new handle.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

If that is his real name.....Oh, wait...it ISN'T!

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

finboy: maybe the tea party is what we need to move towards a better system that isn't based on two parties?

No, because it's a rehash of the same old argument.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

If that is his real name.....Oh, wait...it ISN'T!

Pretty sure it is:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/r...onstewart1.gif

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

No, because it's a rehash of the same old argument.

Did he use some sort of thesaurus script that went through the article and replaced normal words with ridiculous ones?

Never has the country produced a more brilliantly argumentative, individualistic or opinionated group of politicians. Far from being a soft-spoken epoch of genteel sages, the founding period was noisy and clamorous, rife with vitriolic polemics and partisan backbiting.

[The Final Dakar]

His vocabulary was likely indoctrinated by the liberal studies he has undertaken. Yet another reason education is dumb and should be hated.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

His vocabulary was likely indoctrinated by the liberal studies he has undertaken. Yet another reason education is dumb and should be hated.

From Wikipedia:

"Born in Brooklyn, New York Chernow graduated with honors from Yale University and Cambridge University with degrees in English literature."

Aha! Just as we suspected. It gets worse: "He is the president of PEN American Center, a writers' organization."

[Laminar]

Jon "Stewart" is a secret jew!

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by osiris 

Osiris isn't my real name. I just thought I should be honest with you guys.

What is it? Osiris...Bin Laden???

Your silence speaks volumes.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Bla bla bla... Been following the antics of Colbert since "Strangers with Candy." He shouldn't be sitting for an interview with a congressional committee. Perhaps, since the entire last 2 years of Democratic mismanagement and incompetence now they are openly being the joke we knew they were.

BadKosh uses..

DEFLECTION!

It's super effective!

Any comments on how you prefer mainstream news entertainers to an obvious and poignant satire on the state of said news outlets? Colbert is a clown, that's his act and he does not make any claims otherwise. All the talking heads you so vehemently parrot are exactly the same except they try to delude their audiences into thinking that they are watching journalists.