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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Quarz 2D Extreme Performance - The second Approach

Quarz 2D Extreme Performance - The second Approach
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A. R. Malberg
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Nov 27, 2005, 02:39 PM
 
Hi Folks,

as you see I`m opening another thread on Quarz 2D Extreme, and yes its supposed to be a thread about the "unsupported" feature of OS X 10.4.(0-3) Quarz 2D Extreme and not about the "supported" feature Quarz Extreme.

But why open another thread on on Quarz 2D Extreme?
I read the article on arstechnica (1.) about OS X Tiger and was facinated by the Q2DE technologie, but as mentiont in this article and on many other documents on the net it is disabled in the standard configuration.
It is not that difficuled to enable it(2.) and there is a bunch of people that report of drastic speed increase after aktivating it.

To the point, I activated it and there was no speed increase, my PB PB 12" late 2004 model even got slower.
So what I like to see and missed in other threads is a clear fact based documentation of working and not working Q2DE in the currend developement state and a investgation on the background.

So here is what I did:
At first I activated Q2DE by the Quarz Debuger, the first thing I noticed is that Safari (2.0.2) got very slow, that means when I, for example, try to scroll on a webpage it does not scroll smooth and there is a very high load on my CPU.
I looked at the Quarz Debuger Window List and found that the Safari-Window is marked green, green for accelerated, so it realy was using Q2DE.
Same thing goes for the Finder, when 'accelerated' it went damm slow, especially when any kind of sliding is done.
The only thing it seems to work for is the dock, when it is shown as accelearated it seems smoother and seems to have a lower CPU load when moving the mouse over it.

Many other apps and theire Windows where not markted as accelerated, even after restarting them a couple of times, so I activated Q2DE via the .plist file and restarted the book. The restart took longer as normal, after restart still not all windows where marked accelerated. The performance did not increase.

I took a XBench (Version 1.2) run with only the graphics test activated, the results read like this:

Qartz 2D Extreme disabelt:
Quartz Graphics Test 54.40
Line 47.88 3.19 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 53.26 15.90 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 55.23 4.50 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 62.18 1.57 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 55.37 3.46 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 58.32
Spinning Squares 58.32 73.98 frames/sec
User Interface Test 32.53
Elements 32.53 149.31 refresh/sec

Qartz 2D Extreme enabelt:
Quartz Graphics Test 67.01
Line 96.62 6.43 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 73.86 22.05 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 89.01 7.26 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 71.81 1.81 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 39.11 2.45 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 58.23
Spinning Squares 58.23 73.87 frames/sec
User Interface Test 2.31
Elements 2.31 10.61 refresh/sec

As one can see the all Quarz tests, but the text test, were noticable faster with activated Q2DE, but therefore the User Interface Test is realy messed up.

So I now konw on my book Q2DE rather messes things up then making my workflow faster.
But one question remains, why.

After crawling around in the devtools I found the OpenGL Driver Monitor, I realy dont know if this is the rigth tool but I gave it a try, and monitored some parameters.
I could not see any significant diverence between the enabled and disabeld mode.

Please send your experiences with Q2DE and some Benchmarks.
Any suggestions about the monitoring?
Is the performace increase an urbanmyth?
Is it a driver issue?
Is it about the poor performance of the Geforce 5200?

1. http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/1
2. http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...ry=performance
My System:
System Version 10.4.3 (8F46)
Physical RAM 1280 MB
Model PowerBook6,4
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.33 GHz
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.33 GHz No NAP
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card GeForce FX Go5200 64MB VRAM
Drive Type FUJITSU MHT2060AT
     
Detrius
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Nov 27, 2005, 08:23 PM
 
No matter how much research you do, you aren't going to change the fact that Q2DE is unsupported, slow, and buggy. With the 10.4.3 update, Apple went through and automatically disabled the feature for people who had turned it on.

If you want to supply useful information, you'll look for information on what Q2DE could *theoretically* do, or you will wait for it to be completed and/or supported. Discussions of the failings of Q2DE are no different in theory from discussions of a pre-release version of OS X. There is nothing to discuss but incomplete features.


That's just my opinion, not the official opinion of MacNN.
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TheSpaz
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Nov 27, 2005, 11:18 PM
 
Apple doesn't want you using Quartz 2D Extreme... and there's obviously a reason for that. If keeps it disabled, that's one less thing that have for people to complain about. Just give it a rest and disable "Beam Sync" while you're at it... cause that really makes a difference.
     
alphasubzero949
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Nov 28, 2005, 03:09 AM
 
Those of us using 10.4.3 will find it useless anyway, unless we don't mind seeing kernel panics.
     
zign
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Nov 28, 2005, 04:20 PM
 
There is no point to discuss this now. They actually said in 10.4.3 release notes, that the feature is not supported and could cause problems.
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TheSpaz
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Nov 28, 2005, 08:57 PM
 
Q2DE Causes more problems that it actually solves... which is none.
     
moonmonkey
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Nov 29, 2005, 12:09 AM
 
Its an upcoming 10.5 Feature, its no wonder Apple dont want people running it on 10.4.
     
bmedina
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Nov 29, 2005, 12:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey
Its an upcoming 10.5 Feature, its no wonder Apple dont want people running it on 10.4.
Yes, surely that's why they hyped it as a 10.4 feature.

My feeling is that video cards won't be good enough (generally) until Vista ships, and a larger portion of the market is able to use similar technology.
     
ntsc
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Nov 29, 2005, 12:52 PM
 
which is of course why they never mention it in any marketing material i've ever seen...
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Weyland-Yutani
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Nov 29, 2005, 01:30 PM
 
I'm sure Apple would not have talked about Q2DX as a 10.4 feature at the WWDC over a year ago unless they knew that the graphics cards of the day could handle it. They had to develop it in something.

It all takes time and apparently it is taking Apple longer than previously anticipated. Steve doesn't like to go on stage and make empty promises. Just ask IBM

We'll see Q2DX sooner or later, bot not on OS 10.4.3

cheers

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Chuckit
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Nov 29, 2005, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani
I'm sure Apple would not have talked about Q2DX as a 10.4 feature at the WWDC over a year ago unless they knew that the graphics cards of the day could handle it. They had to develop it in something.

It all takes time and apparently it is taking Apple longer than previously anticipated. Steve doesn't like to go on stage and make empty promises. Just ask IBM

We'll see Q2DX sooner or later, bot not on OS 10.4.3
I think we will see it sooner or later, but I do think they would have talked about Q2DE it whether or not the graphics cards in shipping machines at the time could handle it. They talk about Intel Macs now, but most people believe the chips that will be in the shipping machines are not out yet. And keep in mind that Q2DE was introduced during a technical keynote. It was for developers to get an idea of what was in the pipeline, not as a promise to consumers.
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Weyland-Yutani
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Nov 29, 2005, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
I think we will see it sooner or later, but I do think they would have talked about Q2DE it whether or not the graphics cards in shipping machines at the time could handle it. They talk about Intel Macs now, but most people believe the chips that will be in the shipping machines are not out yet. And keep in mind that Q2DE was introduced during a technical keynote. It was for developers to get an idea of what was in the pipeline, not as a promise to consumers.
Yes, my point was that over a year ago Apple had already begun developing Q2DX and thus on graphics cards available then and presumed to be available on machines when 10.4 would be released. That much is obvious. There hasn't been an unexpected slowdown in graphic card development since the announcement was made so it is safe to assume that the cards shipping in the latest Macs today are very well Q2DX capable.

This was a my response to the comment made by bmedina

My feeling is that video cards won't be good enough (generally) until Vista ships, and a larger portion of the market is able to use similar technology.
cheers

W-Y

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