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War and CTP: how about we make this thread about God and Jesus themselves and not religion?
Do you think Jesus defecated while he lived on Earth?
Catholic Study Bible
Luke 24:41-43
41 And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?"
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 and he took it and ate before them.
Which goes to show that, unless Jesus powered up when he returned to heaven, he is constrained by his humanity, and therefore his emotions, sexual drive, and all of the other stuff that comes with being human.
I want to know if he did power up, how do his powers compare to God's now? I also wonder if while he was powering up if there were any cool sounds.
Which goes to show that, unless Jesus powered up when he returned to heaven, he is constrained by his humanity, and therefore his emotions, sexual drive, and all of the other stuff that comes with being human.
My uncle the priest gave me the impression the non-resurrected Jesus had human failings.
Jesus was half-human, and afair the only human behavior people disputed about was whether he ever engaged in romance or had children. Otherwise he slept, ate, bled, etc.
Jesus was half-human, and afair the only human behavior people disputed about was whether he ever engaged in romance or had children. Otherwise he slept, ate, bled, etc.
Jesus is 100% man and God. It is referred to as the hypostatic union.
Modalism is the word most often thrown out by critics. I'm impressed that you chucked out Sabellianism, as I've only read it in church literature — no one has ever brought it up in a debate. Some like to simplify by saying "Jesus-only." I don't consider either label to be correct.
(It doesn't translate well via written word, but there's 0% hostility in my voice).
I am currently preparing to speak tonight, but I'll start my write-up when I get home, hopefully posting tomorrow.
16 And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him;
17 and behold, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son,with whom I am well pleased."
Modalism is the word most often thrown out by critics. I'm impressed that you chucked out Sabellianism, as I've only read it in church literature — no one has ever brought it up in a debate. Some like to simplify by saying "Jesus-only." I don't consider either label to be correct.
(It doesn't translate well via written word, but there's 0% hostility in my voice).
I am currently preparing to speak tonight, but I'll start my write-up when I get home, hopefully posting tomorrow.
I won’t post the entire article you can read the rest at the link.
Denial that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate Persons of the Godhead; claim instead that they are modes, aspects, energies, phases, or offices of a single divine Person.
Modern Parallels
Sabellianism was revived at the time of the Reformation by Socinius, a Reformer considered a heretic even by other Protestants. Modalism arose in America during the nineteenth century and is today taught by several Pentecostal churches, the best known being the United Pentecostal Church (founded 1914).
Modern Pentecostal Modalists claim that "Jesus" is the proper name of the single divine Person who appears as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This notion is also known as "oneness theology" or the "Jesus only" position. Its proponents tend to be active proselytizers. They reject baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and instead baptize in the name of Jesus alone.
My uncle the priest gave me the impression the non-resurrected Jesus had human failings.
Letter to the Hebrews
Catholic Study Bible
Hebrews 4:15
15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning.
The accusation being countered is the behavior of the Church is endemic to them.
It's not. It's endemic to large institutions which deal with children, such as public schools, where the same behavior exists with a similar incidence rate.
This argument needs to be made because the disparity in reportage between the two leads most to arrive at the conclusion this is not the case.
To ask the obvious, if the Church can't be held to a higher moral standard, what exactly is the point?
To ask the obvious, if the Church can't be held to a higher moral standard, what exactly is the point?
The process of salvation. The Church is stainless, yet Christians are people who are capable of sin just like anyone else.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
How can people so distrustful of all elected government be so submissive and unquestioning of unelected clergy? Especially within one of the most ancient and traditionally corrupt organisations in human history?
If only Obama had worn a frock and a collar....
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
I admire the craftsmanship of churches, the beauty, the stained glass, and the history... yet I also know that the gold on the altar came from somewhere, and having gold on an altar is incongruous with helping the poor. My memory is foggy but I think if Jesus had a problem with someone wasting money for oil for his feet instead of the poor, he'd also have a problem with the money put into gold and marble temples.
How can people so distrustful of all elected government be so submissive and unquestioning of unelected clergy? Especially within one of the most ancient and traditionally corrupt organisations in human history?
If only Obama had worn a frock and a collar....
This calls for a meme.
St. Peter denied him three times. Saul/St Paul was complicit in murder.
Yesterday was the feast of St Francis Borgia. His great grandfather was Pope Alexander VI.
I admire the craftsmanship of churches, the beauty, the stained glass, and the history... yet I also know that the gold on the altar came from somewhere, and having gold on an altar is incongruous with helping the poor. My memory is foggy but I think if Jesus had a problem with someone wasting money for oil for his feet instead of the poor, he'd also have a problem with the money put into gold and marble temples.
Quite the opposite.
Catholic Study Bible
John 12:3-8
3 Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped his feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment.
4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (he who was to betray him), said,
5 "Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?"
6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box he used to take what was put into it.
7 Jesus said, "Let her alone, let her keep it for the day of my burial.
8 The poor you always have with you, but you do not always have me."
Yesterday was the feast of St Francis Borgia. His great grandfather was Pope Alexander VI.
Yeah, oops.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
How can people so distrustful of all elected government be so submissive and unquestioning of unelected clergy? Especially within one of the most ancient and traditionally corrupt organisations in human history?
Because it's the ONLY organization that's survived throughout human history (or at least the last 2 millennia). Of course there's going to be issues when any group has been around that long; they're humans, they **** up.
If only Obama had worn a frock and a collar....
Might as well have, almost every speech he gave was some kind of sermon, only he was more self-righteous. Ugh.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I will admit, I do hold clergy to a higher moral standard than most anyone else, and with few exceptions they've not let me down. In the instances where they have it's been a big letdown and I get angry (more so than if it had been an avg Joe), but that simply means I'm not doing my part; forgiving those who have wronged me.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Because it's the ONLY organization that's survived throughout human history (or at least the last 2 millennia). Of course there's going to be issues when any group has been around that long; they're humans, they **** up.
So given they are capable of "human issues", you don't see any reason that they shouldn't be trusted any more than an elected government? The fact they play a long game with no fear of key players being voted out of office is one thing worth considering, the fact they've been around so long should probably encourage you to be open to the idea that they might have had to resort to some fairly unsavoury tactics to make that happen.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
So given they are capable of "human issues", you don't see any reason that they shouldn't be trusted any more than an elected government?
I don't know of any clergy who are bombarded hourly with legal bribes and special favors from lobbyists. Given the current gift rules and campaign contribution laws, no one in gov't should be trusted. Everyone who leaves public office is far wealthier than when they entered; middle-class joe enters, a multi-millionaire exits. Unless that changes, everyone in politics should be held suspect and never fully trusted to look out for the public's best interests.
The fact they play a long game with no fear of key players being voted out of office is one thing worth considering, the fact they've been around so long should probably encourage you to be open to the idea that they might have had to resort to some fairly unsavoury tactics to make that happen.
You don't know that clergy in all major churches are regularly rotated to different parishes, and even vocations, aren't you? Also you seem unaware of how someone becomes a high-ranking member of the clergy (they're voted into office, democratically, they don't just seize power).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I don't know of any clergy who are bombarded hourly with legal bribes and special favors from lobbyists. Given the current gift rules and campaign contribution laws, no one in gov't should be trusted. Everyone who leaves public office is far wealthier than when they entered; middle-class joe enters, a multi-millionaire exits. Unless that changes, everyone in politics should be held suspect and never fully trusted to look out for the public's best interests.
Thats a good point. Not sure what you'd bribe a priest or pastor for these days. Unless you count the ones on TV.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
You don't know that clergy in all major churches are regularly rotated to different parishes, and even vocations, aren't you? Also you seem unaware of how someone becomes a high-ranking member of the clergy (they're voted into office, democratically, they don't just seize power).
I realise votes take place but thats peers not parishioners. I'm sure you'd have issues if your POTUS was picked by your congresspeople like in our version.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Thats a good point. Not sure what you'd bribe a priest or pastor for these days. Unless you count the ones on TV.
Televangelists are their own breed, it's like mixing clergy with WWE. People donate because they love the guilt porn.
I realise votes take place but thats peers not parishioners. I'm sure you'd have issues if your POTUS was picked by your congresspeople like in our version.
It's still a form of democracy, whether I would personally prefer it or not. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to swap out Corbin for someone else most of the time. I know that most Tories can't stand May.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Televangelists are their own breed, it's like mixing clergy with WWE. People donate because they love the guilt porn.
Even I wasn't actually counting them.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
It's still a form of democracy, whether I would personally prefer it or not. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to swap out Corbin for someone else most of the time. I know that most Tories can't stand May.
The thing about Corbin is I genuinely believe his heart is in the right place. Theresa May's heart is probably shrivelled up in a box made from cursed Transylvanian Oak on a dusty shelf in her lair.
Corbin's ideas are fine but he seems to have no idea how to pay for them. What bothers me the most about is the irrational nature of his cult following and his failure to be against Brexit.
That said the Tories have gone from being competent but harsh to utterly worthlessly stupid and downright evil. I really dislike Theresa May but the two most likely replacements in these Trumpian times are even worse. Boris Johnson will make us look like morons and I shudder to think what Jacob Rees-Mogg would do with that kind of power.
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Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Oct 7, 2017 at 08:38 AM.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
Theresa May's heart is probably shrivelled up in a box made from cursed Transylvanian Oak on a dusty shelf in her lair.
You realize that's why they're beating you, right? People are sick to death of the negative crap and want to hear about issues that are directly impacting them, like Immigration, Taxes, and NHS reform.
Corbin's ideas are fine but he seems to have no idea how to pay for them. What bothers me the most about is the irrational nature of his cult following and his failure to be against Brexit.
"We'll pay for everything" isn't a "fine idea". The guy has been carrying a torch for communists for decades, points to Venezuela as an example of successful socialism, and thought Castro was "a fine guy with PR issues". No. He's so out of touch with working Brits, the actual core of the Labour party that it's embarrassing, instead throwing his lot in with the champagne socialists who have never seen an honest day's work in their lives.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
No. He's so out of touch with working Brits, the actual core of the Labour party that it's embarrassing,
You say this with what evidence?
He's more in touch with the "core labour party" than Miliband OR Brown was. The labour party has around 600,000 members (myself included). In our local party he has full support and has galvanised moral and energy unlike his predecessor. I'm sure you will decide unilaterally that this means we are all ex Militant members but in fact we are all standard "working brits"
The labour party exists to promote labour ideals and protect the workers, if those ideals translate into popular votes then it wins power. It may turn out that the majority of voters still fail to support him but he most certainly is not out of touch with the party itself.
The tory party has 100,000 members. If you strip out MP's, peers, the enobled and other gentry how many "working brits" does that leave? talk about actually being out of touch.
Just last week TM offered to generously freeze student loans as £9250 a year. She only did this because for the first time ever young people voted. Repealing the public sector pay cap? Unfreezing benefit cap? The tories are desperate to copy as many labour policies as they can. They aren't even that opposed to re nationalising the railways! And you say labour are somehow misreading the public mood?
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
The collapse of the Labour party over the last decade; from a majority to "oh yeah, those guys over there".
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
You realize that's why they're beating you, right? People are sick to death of the negative crap and want to hear about issues that are directly impacting them, like Immigration, Taxes, and NHS reform.
"They" aren't beating "me". I'm not the staunch lefty you think I am over here because until quite recently our choices both had some merit and neither were despicable, self-serving scumbags. TM's cabinet of white millionaires has changed all that and I'm not the only one who thinks so. The Tories are systematically destroying the NHS so they can carve it up amongst themselves and their cronies, they used immigration and Brexit to help them do it and there is no tax relief to be seen for anyone. Their greedy and heartless policies are driving people towards Corbin's generosity and compassion and thats why they are now trying to copy some of his policies after he scared the shit out of them in the last election.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
"We'll pay for everything" isn't a "fine idea". The guy has been carrying a torch for communists for decades, points to Venezuela as an example of successful socialism, and thought Castro was "a fine guy with PR issues". No. He's so out of touch with working Brits, the actual core of the Labour party that it's embarrassing, instead throwing his lot in with the champagne socialists who have never seen an honest day's work in their lives.
I don't think anyone here expects you to like an idea that sees you deprived of a single penny to be spent on someone else you don't approve of. You've made that very clear.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
The collapse of the Labour party over the last decade; from a majority to "oh yeah, those guys over there".
So, as usual with no evidence.
You DID check in on our last election?
That collapse you refer to happened, er, when Labour had a Blairite, centerist agenda. Millibands continuation of that agenda saw Labour fall even further behind. Once Labours more left wing agenda was placed before the electorate, what exactly happened? Oh yes, the largest swing to Labour for over 50 years.
And that left wing agenda is not actually that far to the left of where the Tories where in the 70's. And a million miles form the far left position from the 80s
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
I don't think anyone here expects you to like an idea that sees you deprived of a single penny to be spent on someone else you don't approve of. You've made that very clear.
That's probably the most ridiculous thing you've said this week, and that says a lot.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
That's probably the most ridiculous thing you've said this week, and that says a lot.
We covered this very recently. Anything that takes so much as a penny from you that might go to someone you don't like is unthinkable. You're not big on sharing because poor people should print their own currency if they need it.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
He's butthurt, and horribly uncharitable (distorting the truth), because he's been getting pummeled in multiple discussions.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
We covered this very recently. Anything that takes so much as a penny from you that might go to someone you don't like is unthinkable. You're not big on sharing because poor people should print their own currency if they need it.
As someone who donates >75% of his income to charitable causes (lately a lot of disaster relief), I can't help but roll my eyes at your silly, petty lies. Since I'm sure that the Red Cross is currently helping everyone who needs assistance in places ravaged by tropical storms, even people I, for whatever reason you've imagined, may not like (despite the fact I rarely dislike anyone), your assertion is nothing more than another disgusting, pitiful attempt at character assassination.
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
You missed the discussion where wealth redistribution was bad because wealth can be created by anyone out of thin air?
Tell me, do you just not understand what I was talking about, or are you now stuck on misrepresenting everything I'm saying? If it's the former maybe I can help and provide better explanations, but I suspect it's the latter, and you've allowed yourself to sink lower than ever before. This is the second time you've tried this wholly dishonest garbage today and I have to say, it only hurts you. You should probably stop now before no one will debate you anymore.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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