Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Big Mac · Jan 11, 2006, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by krove

In answer to my own question, "Does it support Firewire Target Mode?"

Yes, it does:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...2006/1/11/2458

That's a healthy sign, I suppose. A poster to the comments thread about the article claims, interestingly enough, that only firewire booting - not USB - works on these Mactels so far.

ort888 · Jan 11, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by uicandrew

ort888, well, given that the styling is exactly the same, i wouldn't expect you to like it the second time around.

if you want more flair, then alienware or colorware could be it.
people rave about the simplicity and clean look of the powerbook.

can you give an example/link to a laptop that you think looks good?
now i'm really curious to see what you have in mind.

Most PC laptops look like poo. I dunno. I like the way the iBook looks. Even though the design is similar, I think the difference in the details is important. I loved the TiBook and the Pismo as well.

Something about the keyboard and speaker placement and coloring looks cheap to me. I've never liked the new style of Powerbook. I thought it was a step back aesthetically.

Chuckit · Jan 11, 2006, 07:12 PM

What do you mean? The keyboard and speakers are in the same place on both the TiBook and the AlBook.

uicandrew · Jan 11, 2006, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by SkiBikeSki

I do have one thing about the PowerBook that I can't quite figure out myself: Should I get AppleCare when I buy it? I'm buying it through MacMall since they're offering a free 1GB of RAM, thus maxing it out. From them AppleCare is only $250, which is a bit more than the cost of fixing something myself. I've replaced RAM, Airport Cards, HDD,CD/DVD Drives in iBooks and PowerBooks before, and replacing any 1 of those would be cheaper than AppleCare. Then again if 2 were to go bad then I'd better off with AppleCare. And what about the new Intel motherboard that's powering this beast. What are the odds that something will be wrong with that in this first rev? Is anyone else getting AppleCare with theirs simply because of the fact that its the first Intel based Mac laptop?

No, you can get applecare up until the last day of the original warranty. I am getting it because it is the first intel based mac laptop. if something goes wrong with the lcd, that is definitely more than $250

Do you personally have to pay taxes over at macmall? I noticed that the free ram costs $250+ and you have to pay an installation fee. Over at crucial, it is only $130 with free shipping.

mrmister · Jan 11, 2006, 07:23 PM

"Wow, the Axe came down....5 threads locked."

Overreactive moderators with little to do, apparently--tiresome. I sometimes think moderators obsess over ONE THREAD PER TOPIC rules because otherwise they might suddenly realize how little they matter.

mrmister · Jan 11, 2006, 07:25 PM

And here is what I was trying to discuss--

***

Happens to me all the time--I go somewhere else with my laptop. I bring my mouse (1 usb port) I plug into their printer (2 USB ports) I go to use their scanner--out of USB ports. I was psyched about the Intel Book, because maybe things would finally change.

I'm still a little in shock that we lost a FW port (I've been using an 800-400 converter so that I can have two FW400 ports on my AlBook) and, portwise, gained...nothing.

I expected they'd sensibly give us another USB port...and then we lost SVideo, and the new PCCard port that, I *pray* gets adopted widely or it'll be a total mess. Verizon CDMA cards are useless, as are other wireless (non-WiFi) internet services that require PCCards--we're just going to have to hope that everyone under the sun adopts the new standard, but given how entrenched PCCards are, I'm not totally certain that will happen, and if it does, I doubt it will be very quick.

But that at least is defensible, if potentially annoying--but not giving three USB ports on a high-end laptop, or 2 USB and 2 FW, really sucks.

I haven't even gotten into the loss of the modem port, which in a way is the ultimate insult; it's been replaced by a USB dongle, which, if one needs to dial-up, eats up a USB port. In other words, if you need a modem and a mouse you are out of USB ports.

I await the apologists, who I expect will flock in like hungry birds to this message--I'd ask you take a moment, read what I'm actually saying, breathe and then explain to me how the loss of 4 ports (FW800, PCCard, SVideo, modem) is anything but a cost-cutting move at the expense of users. Shouldn't there at *least* be more USB ports? Something?

***

uicandrew · Jan 11, 2006, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Most PC laptops look like poo. I dunno. I like the way the iBook looks. Even though the design is similar, I think the difference in the details is important. I loved the TiBook and the Pismo as well.

Something about the keyboard and speaker placement and coloring looks cheap to me. I've never liked the new style of Powerbook. I thought it was a step back aesthetically.

well, to each his own. My best friend has an ibook g4. while it looks nice initially, the lettering on the keyboard is rubbing off on its own. now THAT looks cheap.

maybe you're a 2-tone type of a guy (based on the tibook and pismo)

i guess i am a minimalist. thin, clean edges.

uicandrew · Jan 11, 2006, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by mrmister

And here is what I was trying to discuss--

***
I await the apologists, who I expect will flock in like hungry birds to this message--I'd ask you take a moment, read what I'm actually saying, breathe and then explain to me how the loss of 4 ports (FW800, PCCard, SVideo, modem) is anything but a cost-cutting move at the expense of users. Shouldn't there at *least* be more USB ports? Something?

***

Thanks for shining the "apologists sign" (analagous to the "bat sign") in the sky. i got here as quick as possible :-)

maybe they were running out of space. I mean, they had to move the vents to the back of the laptop and they moved the antennae to the hinge.

loss of pccard is more "forward thinking." just give expresscard time to take off (despite that it was introduced in 2003) since pc laptops are starting to get them too. maybe apple is helping create the market for expresscard peripherals.

I'm not sure how analogous it is to the floppy drive or the vga port. i also expected more USB ports. I use a flash drive regulary, so using a wired mouse would fill the 2 ports up, not to mention wanting to print using a usb printer.

luckily, my hp 5850 is wifi. but hey, maybe the wireless usb hub (see engadget.com) will be the next great thing for powerbook users :-)

Chuckit · Jan 11, 2006, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by mrmister

"Wow, the Axe came down....5 threads locked."

Overreactive moderators with little to do, apparently--tiresome. I sometimes think moderators obsess over ONE THREAD PER TOPIC rules because otherwise they might suddenly realize how little they matter.

Sometimes I think people flagrantly disobey easy-to-follow rules because they're idiots.

macross · Jan 11, 2006, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

Hi all,

First off, WHY an Intel gimmick (yes, gimmick)? What's wrong with the G4 platform? Secondly, wasn't one of Apple's goals to produce a sub-$1,000 PowerBook? How is this thing going to lead to that and what's the point since the G3/G4 series already runs OS/X?

Why not G4, because that chip is dated. Why not use an old p4 chip that is 4 years old, because that's probalby the same comparison

. Where exactly did you hear about a sub $1k Powerbook? Have you heard of the ibook? It's only $999.99, that qualifies as a sub $1k laptop. Obviously you're coming off more as a mac fanboy that wants them to continue to use IBM chips yet you don't understand how slow the PB laptops are and have been for years.

mrmister · Jan 11, 2006, 08:32 PM

"Sometimes I think people flagrantly disobey easy-to-follow rules because they're idiots."

Aren't you the cutest! Yes you are! Yes you are! You and your 5,000 posts!

Babies rock.

mrmister · Jan 11, 2006, 08:36 PM

"maybe they were running out of space. I mean, they had to move the vents to the back of the laptop and they moved the antennae to the hinge."

I hope the wifi range doesn't suffer with that...and yes, it could be space, that's true, but if true my feeling is they should have waited and made less compromises.

"loss of pccard is more "forward thinking." just give expresscard time to take off (despite that it was introduced in 2003) since pc laptops are starting to get them too. maybe apple is helping create the market for expresscard peripherals."

That makes sense, though I fear that its not a market, frankly--I have never actually seen an expresscard peripheral, and I see a lot of gear. It's a risky gamble, which Apple does often, and I appreciate that, but it's rather nausea-inducing.

"I'm not sure how analogous it is to the floppy drive or the vga port. i also expected more USB ports. I use a flash drive regulary, so using a wired mouse would fill the 2 ports up, not to mention wanting to print using a usb printer."

At the end of the day I think I'd be a lot less prone to complaint if we had just gotten one additional USB port. I really can't fathom why that would be so hard.

photoeditor · 08:46 PM

Basically a good introduction but several serious problems for most people, I think. (By the way the moderators are foolish not to allow threads specific to each issue, because digging through hundreds of loosely connected posts is too much effort).

First, not enough USB ports. In this day and age of customizable solutions (some on a modem, some on a cell phone and so on) it is logical to leave out the modem, BUT the one common theme is USB, and two ports is insuffucient. Should be three or four.

Second, choosing the 34mm ExpressCard instead of 54 might be an issue for some, given the lack of a second FireWire port and Cardbus. You can't fit a flash card in a 34mm receptacle, nor will you be able to use, say, an EVDO card and a FIreWire800/SATA card at the same time in one receptacle. Which also brings us back to the insufficient number of ports.

Third, why the backward step in the SuperDrive? Was the new case simply too thin to shove an 8x drive in there?

Fourth, this has to break all existing Apple records for "biggest markup on a top-of-the-line version". The $2,499 model has an incrementally faster processor (difference in Intel list price to manufacturers, $50), an incrementally larger hard drive (retail difference about $70 or so), incrementally more RAM (guessing about an $80 retail difference if they go on using Samsung RAM). and lastly, the doubled VRAM -- valuable for the few gamers that need it, virtually useless for everyone else unless more software starts to seriously take advantage of CoreImage -- I'll charitably score the VRAM for $100. By my count, that's $300 worth of stuff for $500. This is one of those rare cases on a laptop where there is a convincing case for the cheap one.

As it happens, I am one of the lucky ones who is not seriously affected by these issues. The cheap model (cheap compared only to other Apple products, of course) is a spectacular upgrade for me. I tether my cell phone when on the road, I use Ethernet at home and work, I don't use FireWire 800, and ExpressCard is just right for the external SATA setup I hope to add. I just use a lot of processor intensive software. Question is, am I typical of a power user? I think maybe not.

But even I may run out of ports. Emergency backup external 2.5 hard drive (FireWire or USB 2), Mouse (USB 2 or Bluetooth), Card reader (FireWire 400), cell phone (USB 2) -- four items get a bit crowded on three ports. I guess they want you to buy a Bluetooth mouse.

iDoctor · Jan 11, 2006, 08:37 PM

MacBook sucks !
No Modem !
How the hell I am going to receive faxes when I am abroad ?!!

Such a retard laptop :-(

t_hah · Jan 11, 2006, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by iDoctor

MacBook sucks !
No Modem !
How the hell I am going to receive faxes when I am abroad ?!!

Such a retard laptop :-(

What is the big deal about the modem? Most users really don't need a modem. If you need one, buy the external modem for it.

I have not used a modem for years and I travelled all around the World, well kind of. I never had to use a modem in the US, and not in Europe. I am glad that I don't have to pay for it.

analogika · Jan 11, 2006, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ambassadeur

And the notion that there'll only be one notebook line seems a little awkward, given the gap this would open up in the low-end (i.e. iBook) segment. I guess we'll see some close to 1000$ MacBook Basic or whatever (let the guessing begin) as well in the final lineup.

Anybody wanna bet it'll be the iSchool, MacBook Express, and MacBook Pro models by mid-summer?

iDoctor · Jan 11, 2006, 09:13 PM

"Get an external modem" .. one more thing to carry !
Does not have and S-video out put .. so what output are we gonna use to play DVDs on TV?

:-(

analogika · Jan 11, 2006, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by stuepfnick

Oh please, what's the problem with a 4x Superdrive? I can't image a single problem... if it's really to slow (14 instead of 9 minutes for burning a DVD...)

The BIG problem is the lack of FW800. So there is NO WAY to connect a decent harddrive for Audio or Video-Professionals! That's really very hard! So the whole thing is not really a ProBook... sadly.

The ProBook won't be shipping until February.

I'm sure (well, I hope) we'll see a Firewire 800 ExpressCard 34 by then.

The bigger problem is with all those CardBus cards for Magma chassis or audio interfacing.

Of course, I have never met a "professional" who didn't give an entirely new article AT LEAST six months before switching production machines. Unless they had disposable income for a secondary machine for early adopting.

Helmling · Jan 11, 2006, 09:26 PM

People, people, people...

The name does NOT suck.

You're just confused about the name.

We've changed it. You must now refer to the aforementioned laptop as:

Mac ProBook, or just ProBook for short.

Thank you, that is all.

winterlandia · Jan 11, 2006, 09:39 PM

Totally agree.. MacBook is the most rediculous name. I would have to put a sticker over that if I bought one to keep from thinking how stupid it is everytime I opened the laptop. This ranks up there with the flower power imac.

ProBook it is for the high end. iBook for the low end.

Much better.

Originally Posted by Helmling

People, people, people...

The name does NOT suck.

You're just confused about the name.

We've changed it. You must now refer to the aforementioned laptop as:

Mac ProBook, or just ProBook for short.

Thank you, that is all.

jasong · Jan 11, 2006, 09:40 PM

Jeez Helmling, STFU already

fisherKing · 10:12 PM

was away today, with some pc users.
everyone associates apple with "mac", so the name finally makes sense to me.
"apple makes macs"... got it!

we'll get used to it soon enough, and find plenty of other things to bitch about.

whats the big gripe about the modem? most of us dont need it, and if you do, the apple one (for example) couldn't be smaller...

my guess: we'll see an "ibook" line, called the "macbook" (ie no "pro")

and i'm hoping for a small macbook pro, to replace my 12" alubook, by the summer.

but the more i check the specs, the more impressed i am.
i dont care so much about the isight, or front row (altho they're nice features).

i want speed, stability. battery life. a great screen.

and this seems like a great step forward...

trevorM · Jan 11, 2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Trygve

Does anyone here actually GO anywhere with their PowerBook? I can't beleive everyone is brushing off the lack of a built-in modem. I use Ethernet or Ariport at home and in a few cafes and such, but when travelling often the modem is the only way to connect. Just another doodad I have to carry if I want to work now.

In the last 3 years. Every hotel or motel I have visited has had either wifi or ethernet. I've never used a modem in the last 5 years I don't think.

B Gallagher · Jan 11, 2006, 10:08 PM

Any idea if the new Macs or the software's in retail stores yet?

B Gallagher · Jan 11, 2006, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by one09jason

Well, that's true, but in some ways I guess that's not the point. I only ocassionally use the modem also. It's just that it was a nice piece of Apple design that a port or or acessory was built in and we didn't have to remember to bring it. I don't use the s-video much either, but it's nice to have. I never once thought to myself, "damn, this Powerbook is so heavy, I wish it didn't have a modem in it." Or, "I never use this modem, I wish I hadn't paid for it". It was nice to have it there when you needed it.

Bang on.

t_hah · 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by iDoctor

"Get an external modem" .. one more thing to carry !
Does not have and S-video out put .. so what output are we gonna use to play DVDs on TV?

:-(

iDoctor: there is an adapter called "Apple DVI to Video Display Adapter". It will set you back another $19... I already ordered mine.

t_hah · Jan 11, 2006, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by B Gallagher

Any idea if the new Macs or the software's in retail stores yet?

I called the store in Chandler, AZ. The automated system gave me the following availability:
iLife 06 - Jan 11
Intel iMac - Jan 17
Intel MacBook Pro - end of February

Helmling · Jan 11, 2006, 10:25 PM

You shut up, Jason! Nanny, nanny, boo, boo...

I'm just messing around, though I do hope the new name catches on.

I know I'll call mine ProBook...once I can finally get one.

Why am I using so many smileys? Must be Macworld giddiness, I get it every year, even though I've never been to Macworld.

SirCastor · Jan 11, 2006, 10:31 PM

ProBook is what I would've called it if I had to abandon power. That way we could keep iBook. Maybe we will anyway.

RogerR · Jan 11, 2006, 10:53 PM

One of the rumours floating around in the last few months was that Apple was working on an updated Airport Express that would provide wireless video transfer similar to it's current Airtunes feature. (Again, this was only a rumour I read.)
If this were true, it might explain the lack of an S-Video out port. It could be that the MacBook Pro/ProBook/Mac ProBook/PowerBook Duo has the capability of transmitting video wirelessly, but this ability was not announced because the AirPort Express with Video is not yet ready.
I'm only thinking out loud here.

giggs11 · Jan 11, 2006, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by mrmister

Babies rock.

They also can't figure out how to quote properly. But then I guess they have an excuse. At least wait until somebody has a MacBook in their hands to start bitching about them in multiple threads.

On a side note, I really am surprised at the number of people who use their laptops in rural areas away from broadband, but I guess its understandable. Personally I've been to several third-world countries and been able to find some kind of ethernet, but then I've mainly been in urban areas. Yes its frustrating that hooking up a USB modem leaves you with just the one extra port, but again its a laptop--its not going to be as full-featured as a desktop, regardless of how they position it. A $2000 laptop isn't going to have all of the features of a $2000 desktop, simple as. A gain in speed, a loss in features that Apple's research probably told them were being used by a fairly small minority.

And if thats not enough, believe it or not, the good old PowerBook is still for sale.

mrmister · Jan 11, 2006, 11:35 PM

"At least wait until somebody has a MacBook in their hands to start bitching about them in multiple threads."

Unnecessary, unless they automagically are going to have these ports reappear when they start shipping. It's this kind of ridiculous apologism that rankles--what, we can't complain about features that are obviously removed? The answer is: you can complain, but only once the product ships. WTF? We *know* what's missing--the specs are published. You don't see me commenting on the battery life--we don't have enough data on that yet.

"Yes its frustrating that hooking up a USB modem leaves you with just the one extra port, but again its a laptop--its not going to be as full-featured as a desktop, regardless of how they position it."

IT USED TO HAVE MORE PORTS. NOW IT HAS LESS. What this has to do with desktops vs. laptops is beyond me.

"A gain in speed, a loss in features that Apple's research probably told them were being used by a fairly small minority."

Substitute "market studies" and "cost-cutting" for "research" and you might have something, though the "small minority" in question adapted FW800 because Apple told them it was great in the first place. Lesson: don't trust Apple. I'm remembering that as far as the ExpressCard is concerned.

"And if thats not enough, believe it or not, the good old PowerBook is still for sale."

Wake me up if they start offering an Intel chip with respectable speeds in a PowerBook chassis that has the features they've left out, and then I'll get excited.

I mean, come on--I just want at least one more USB port. Isn't that a position most people can get behind?

runejoha · Jan 11, 2006, 11:37 PM

Well, I am stil waiting for the PowerBook G5. I think it will be released the last quarter this year, or next year!

crouchingtiger · Jan 11, 2006, 11:43 PM

I spent a few hours at Macworld Expo this afternoon and here are my impressions of the MacBook Pro and the new iMac:

1) I think it's pretty clear that Apple chose to have the first iterations of the Intel Macs look very similar to their G5 counterparts (identical, in the case of the iMac) to convey exactly how seamless the transition to Intel is going to be. It was quite successful, in my opinion. Sitting down in front of either the MacBook or the iMac, it's impossible to tell that it's not a "normal" Mac. In some ways, it was actually a little bit disappointing!

2) Speed. Yes, these things are very fast. No, I couldn't quantitate it. Web browsing is improved, but still not quite as good as I had hoped (on more complex pages, like espn.com). Don't get me wrong -- it's very fast, but only "instantaneous" sometimes. iPhoto on the Powerbook was very very very smooth and snappy, although of course I can't determine how much of this is due to iPhoto 6 and how much is due to the computer. I played one HD trailer (believe it was 720i) and two other smaller trailers at the same time on the iMac and I couldn't get it to skip a frame. In fact, iPhoto running on the iMac with the three trailers looping in the background felt about as responsive as iPhoto 5 running alone on my AlBook 1.5 GHz with 2 GB of RAM. Very nice, heheh.

3) The screen is BRIGHT BRIGHT BRIGHT. I plopped my AlBook (which I occasionally find too bright to use) down right next to it and it was like night and day.

4) Battery life: I suspect that battery life will be similar or somewhat better than the current generation of Powerbooks. When I unplugged the MacBook Pro, it had a full charge and eventually listed 8:20 (!) as the estimated time remaining (Energy saver setting = Normal). However, I loaded up iPhoto and started paging through images like mad in the full-screen mode to tax the CPU and it dropped down to 2:30. This, of course, is thoroughly unscientific, but it leads me to believe that normal battery life on these things will be in the 3.5-4.5 hour rage.

5) Miscellaneous. The new power plug is very slick. I believe that the lack of dual-layer SuperDrives in the MacBook is only temporary -- I think the part they were using in the last Powerbooks is just not slim enough to fit in the chassis, a situation that I bet will be remedied by the next revision. I still hate the Mighty Mouse. Lack of Firewire 800 is disappointing but I bet that an ExpressCard solution surfaces sooner rather than later. The built-in iSight is very nice, and it will make videoconferencing a proposition that is infinitely less of a hassle (all of you complaining about the tiny little USB modem -- I guess traveling with the iSight wasn't your cup of tea either...). While on that topic, I say good riddance to the modem -- I personally have not used one in at least 5 years. It's just like ADB, SCSI, infrared etc. -- there will be the handful of whiners who eventually shut up because they, amazingly enough, learn to cope with what is really not an earth-shattering issue.

Anyway, I'll probably drop by one more time this week so if anyone has anyone questions that they'd like looked into, feel free to post in this thread...

krove · Jan 11, 2006, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by t_hah

iDoctor: there is an adapter called "Apple DVI to Video Display Adapter". It will set you back another $19... I already ordered mine.

Do we know if this works with the MacBook Pro? The following page says PowerMac G5 / mac mini only:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...plm=M9267G%2FA

fisherKing · Jan 11, 2006, 11:56 PM

no matter what we get, we complain.

"i need one more (insert protocol here) port!"
"i wanted (insert almost anything here) and they did (expresscard, better screen, speed!, etc)."

meanwhile...
next to our current books, this is a great machine.
maybe not definitive (my theory is, by rev3, it will be).
but read those specs again...

am looking forward to usage reports end february...

tycheung · 12:24 AM

i'll wait a couple of revs, still on my 12" iBook 800, which I love even tho it's obvious it's still chugging along...15" is a little big to throw into my (very useful) little timbuktu bag...

agree that powerbook is the better name - it's become legendary in computing circles, and has name recognition....they call leica M's leica M's....they should call powerbooks powerbooks

dunno about the s-vga - does DVI work with the new HDTV's? if so they might have felt that was good enough

SkiBikeSki · Jan 12, 2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by uicandrew

No, you can get applecare up until the last day of the original warranty. I am getting it because it is the first intel based mac laptop. if something goes wrong with the lcd, that is definitely more than $250

Do you personally have to pay taxes over at macmall? I noticed that the free ram costs $250+ and you have to pay an installation fee. Over at crucial, it is only $130 with free shipping.

The LCD! That is a good reason to get applecare. I suppose the isight and magsafe are other expensive things i couldn't fix myself.

I don't think I have to pay taxes with macmall. another question is do i pay $40 installation and take my chances with the mail in rebate, or do i just get it from crucial and do it myself. Also the free printer has 3 rebates itself. I'm not sure i want all that hassle for a crappy printer.

crouchingtiger · Jan 12, 2006, 12:24 AM

heheh, I was going to wait too because my 1.5 GHz AlBook still performs great for me, but, more importantly, the MacBook Pro is too wide to fit into my Spire Endo bag!

Originally Posted by tycheung

i'll wait a couple of revs, still on my 12" iBook 800, which I love even tho it's obvious it's still chugging along...15" is a little big to throw into my (very useful) little timbuktu bag...

tycheung · Jan 12, 2006, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by winterlandia

Totally agree.. MacBook is the most rediculous name. I would have to put a sticker over that if I bought one to keep from thinking how stupid it is everytime I opened the laptop. This ranks up there with the flower power imac.

ProBook it is for the high end. iBook for the low end.

Much better.

you had to see the slashdot postings - i'll have my macbook with 2 extra beef patties please...be bloody, bold, and resolute! Laugh to scorn the power of man, for none of woman born shall harm MacBook....Lay on, MacBook!

shabbasuraj · Jan 12, 2006, 12:31 AM

This MacBlow's.

t_hah · Jan 12, 2006, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by krove

Do we know if this works with the MacBook Pro? The following page says PowerMac G5 / mac mini only:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...plm=M9267G%2FA

I don't know it for sure. But the MacBook Pro has a DVI port, and that is a DVI to Video connector. There is really not much to that. A video signal is a video signal, there should not a difference between the computers in DVI output (I would think).

frdmfghtr · Jan 12, 2006, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by crouchingtiger

Anyway, I'll probably drop by one more time this week so if anyone has anyone questions that they'd like looked into, feel free to post in this thread...

I have one, and I couldn't find the answer here in thr forums (OK I didn't look that hard either.)

Some users are gettign them in order to dual boot into either an OS X or Windows environment. Has this ability been confirmed to exist? I've seen posts (not here) where people get confused and think that just because it's the same processor that runs Windows that Windows software will run in OS X (obviously not true.) I'd hate for the same confusion to exist regarding what OS will run; after all, there is more to a motherboard than just the processor.

Scooterboy · Jan 12, 2006, 12:59 AM

So if I buy a MacBook "Pro", I have to connect to my LaCie drive with a connection at 400 or 480 mbps, instead of 800? Half the drive performance? On a newer machine? Not impressive. 1.67 and 1.8 GHz? There are PC laptops at 2+ GHz dual core. Many pro music peripherals use FW800 as well as many external hard drives. Besides the processor and iSight, many of the specs are downgrades. Apple has removed features. I'd buy the Powerbook over the MacBook until Apple makes a real MacBook Pro. There are no speed issues that impact me as a user on my cureent 1.5 GHz PowerBook. And there are other Centrino Books with the the Intel Duo processor that will 2 GHz and above and at least have a real PC card slot for FW 800.

Welcome to PC land Appleverse! Not entirely, because it looks like Apple still can't score the fastest processors for its portables, as these seem to have gone to Dell.

icruise · 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

This PB is a transition machine

...has FLOP written all over it...

...this MacBLOW PRO will be a one off 15" only creation... a la the TiBook of previous lore...

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

not what the people wanted

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

MacCrap

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

This MacBlow's.

Yeah, we get the point. You don't like it. But chiming in every few hours with a new one-liner is not contributing to the discussion.

icruise · 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr

Some users are gettign them in order to dual boot into either an OS X or Windows environment. Has this ability been confirmed to exist?

Not exactly. But Apple's vice president has been quoted as saying that they will not do anything to prevent people using windows on Macs, which implies that it will be possible. That isn't the same thing as saying that it will work right out of the box, though. People are saying that the hardware the new Macs use might not be supported until Windows Vista comes out. I haven't heard of anyone actually trying to install Windows yet (not surprising since no one has one of these yet).

I've seen posts (not here) where people get confused and think that just because it's the same processor that runs Windows that Windows software will run in OS X (obviously not true.) I'd hate for the same confusion to exist regarding what OS will run; after all, there is more to a motherboard than just the processor.

Obviously windows programs won't run in OS X just as they are, but it is possible to create something like WINE for Linux, which allows Windows programs to run within Linux. I don't think anything like this exists yet, but it could very well allow people to run Windows programs within OS X. Whether this is a good thing or not is another question, since having the ability to run Windows programs within OS X could actually hinder the development of OS X native software.

uicandrew · Jan 12, 2006, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr

I have one, and I couldn't find the answer here in thr forums (OK I didn't look that hard either.)

Some users are gettign them in order to dual boot into either an OS X or Windows environment. Has this ability been confirmed to exist? I've seen posts (not here) where people get confused and think that just because it's the same processor that runs Windows that Windows software will run in OS X (obviously not true.) I'd hate for the same confusion to exist regarding what OS will run; after all, there is more to a motherboard than just the processor.

As of right now, win XP can not be installed because pcs have bios, but probook has efi (the next generation). windows vista supports the efi. (isn't it funny that i'm looking forward to vista?)

there is also a full thread about it in this forum. it is one of the only few new threads that hasn't been shut down/locked.

Scooterboy · Jan 12, 2006, 01:10 AM

So if I buy a MacBook (really a crappy name) "Pro", I have to connect to my LaCie drive with a connection at 400 or 480 mbps, instead of 800? Half the drive performance? On a newer machine? Not impressive. 1.67 and 1.8 GHz? There are now Centrino laptops with 2.0 GHz Intel Duo. Many pro music peripherals use FW800 as well as many external hard drives. Besides the processor and iSight, many of the specs are downgrades. Apple has removed features. I'd buy the Powerbook over the MacBook until Apple makes a real MacBook Pro. There are no speed issues that impact me as a user on my cureent 1.5 GHz PowerBook. And there are other Centrino Books with the the Intel Duo processor that will 2 GHz and above and at least have a real PC card slot for FW 800.

Welcome to PC land Appleverse! It looks like Apple still can't score the fastest CPU's as those have gone to Dell.

Eug Wanker · Jan 12, 2006, 01:18 AM

Not exactly. But Apple's vice president has been quoted as saying that they will not do anything to prevent people using windows on Macs, which implies that it will be possible. That isn't the same thing as saying that it will work right out of the box, though. People are saying that the hardware the new Macs use might not be supported until Windows Vista comes out. I haven't heard of anyone actually trying to install Windows yet (not surprising since no one has one of these yet).

There are unconfirmed reports that people have been trying Windows install disks, and can't even get them to boot.

crouchingtiger · Jan 12, 2006, 01:49 AM

heh, obviously you are entitled to your opinion and others do feel the way you do (and other do not), but two small points:
1) the MacBook Pro was definitely significantly faster than my 1.5 GHz AlBook.
2) ExpressCard, while in its infancy, is certainly a better long-term solution for FW800 and the like compared to a PC card slot (which is getting quite ancient).

These certainly are, to some extent, transition machines. Others have speculated that Intel designed the first round of motherboards for Apple. I hope that FW800 makes it back into the Powerbook into a future revision based on an Apple designed motherboard.

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

So if I buy a MacBook "Pro", I have to connect to my LaCie drive with a connection at 400 or 480 mbps, instead of 800? Half the drive performance? On a newer machine? Not impressive. 1.67 and 1.8 GHz? There will be PC laptops at 2+ GHz dual core. Many pro music peripherals use FW800 as well as many external hard drives. Besides the processor and iSight, many of the specs are downgrades. Apple has removed features. I'd buy the Powerbook over the MacBook until Apple makes a real MacBook Pro. There are no speed issues that impact me as a user on my cureent 1.5 GHz PowerBook. And there are other Centrino Books with the the Intel Duo processor that will 2 GHz and above and at least have a real PC card slot for FW 800.

Welcome to PC land Appleverse!