[jebjeb]

Well not me but my wife is pregnant! Hooray!! We are both really happy and excited.

It means the Mini Cooper S will no longer be practical for us. I have tried to get a baby capsule (my nephews) in the back before but it is difficult to get in there as the front seat doesn't fold forward enough to get it through easily. Plus, you wouldn't be able to do it with a nipper in there as he/she would fall out as you try squeeze it through.

So, time to start short listing its replacement. The Mini has been fantastic and it has been great to be in a car that is a little special. I think it is going to be hard to find that something special again in the cars I am looking at.

Firstly, here's my criteria;

- 4/5 doors
- Decent (but no need to be huge) boot (trunk) or a estate (station wagon) - (Gee I am nice to you Americans by translating for you :-))
- Safe
- Quick - I still want a great handling car with some power for when I get to drive it by myself (quite often)
- Quality (looking at mid to premium sector)
- Comfortable - needs to ride well, not crash around (especially on these cruddy London roads) but still handle although I don't expect Mini like abilities
- Not bothered if it is new or used but as long as it is not older than around 2-3 years. (there is one exception below)
- Not a killer on insurance. My Mini is a group 15 (all cars in the UK here have an insurance grade between 1 [lowest] and 20 [highest]. The Mini is reasonably high as are most of the cars on my shortlist. I currently pay about �1500 a year (about US$3000) which is a bit rough.
- Prefer factory Sat Nav but may consider after market. After having it in the Mini (initially speced it at a whim) I can honestly say that I will probably never buy another car without it. Takes the stress out of driving.
- Not an SUV (my wife's only stipulation)
- between �18000 and �25000.

Right. Here's my short list so far;

- Top of the list is a BMW 330d (diesel) or 330i (petrol). Either a saloon or estate. Fulfils all criteria above. Can get a 2 year old example with sat nav and about 15000 miles on it for around �22000
- BMW 530i (new shape) - this is up at the top end of my budget
- Merc C320 - not sure about this
- Volvo V50 T5 - took one for a drive a couple of weeks ago. Impressed me but it wasn't quite there
- Subaru Legacy 3.0 R - down the scales in quality (but not reliability) but still worth a look
- VW Golf GTi 5door - new shape - looks good but not to different from the Mini plus I have never been a fan of Golfs.

My two other cars on the list but are ones that don't fit a couple of the criteria are;
- Merc C32 AMG - High insurance (group 19) and about �27k used
- My favourite - previous shape (E39 I think) BMW M5 - Fast, Safe, Sat Nav, Quality, Comfy but group 20 insurance (will cost me nearly �3000 to insure) and about a 2001 model is in my price range (�22000).

What do you guys think and do you have any suggestions? Have I missed anything out? For the non-UKers here, if you do make suggestions, can you make sure I can actually get it here in the UK!

[Rampant Desire]

I would most definitely go with a BMW. Pure driving machine that will haul around your new baby too . You live in the UK, so size is of concern. My inclination would be to go for the 330i. How's the diesel version for peppiness?

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Rampant Desire:
I would most definitely go with a BMW. Pure driving machine that will haul around your new baby too . You live in the UK, so size is of concern. My inclination would be to go for the 330i. How's the diesel version for peppiness?

0-60 is down by about a second on the petrol (not that I really measure things that way) but the in-gear times are fantastic (lots of smooth torque).

[badidea]

I would get the Volvo V50 but since you already drove it and I didn't, you should know better!?

[G4ME]

nothing like baby puke in a BMW

[Rampant Desire]

Originally posted by G4ME:
nothing like baby puke in a BMW

LOL... that's what leather is for! It can survive just about any kind of torture.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by G4ME:
nothing like baby puke in a BMW

Thats the best thing about leather, mate. Just wipe it off!

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Rampant Desire:
LOL... that's what leather is for! It can survive just about any kind of torture.

Doh! Beat me to it!

[Rampant Desire]

Originally posted by jebjeb:
Doh! Beat me to it!

LOL.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by badidea:
I would get the Volvo V50 but since you already drove it and I didn't, you should know better!?

It was a better vehicle than I thought it would be. Effortlessly quick but that was part of the problem. It didn't feel like it was supposed to be that quick and you didn't need to work at it.

It is a bit soft but nothing major. Auto (geartronic) box is very nice. Does what you tell it to and doesn't auto change up if you have manually change gear. Still, I prefer a Manual (6 speed).

The other thing is that the sat nav display retracts back into the top of the dash. this is good for security but I prefer having it on display all the time as I learn many more routes that way (even when I know where I'm going). Minor thing though.

[Skip Breakfast]

Dodge Magnum AWD w/Hemi. Best bang for the buck, and decent gas mileage too.

[Skip Breakfast]

Scratch that. I didn't realize that you were not in the US. The V50, Mazda3, and new Ford Focus (the European model) are all essentially the same car, if that is helpful.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
Scratch that. I didn't realize that you were not in the US. The V50, Mazda3, and new Ford Focus (the European model) are all essentially the same car, if that is helpful.

Sure, their on the same platform (Ford's C1 I think) but there is certainly a difference in performance and interiors. Again, I think the V50 is down the list a bit. Not too say that the three cars you have listed are not nice vehicles.

[Goldfinger]

Get the 330d, NOT the 330i. Or second hand 530d if you can get it (E39). The diesel gets much much better mileage and it has heaps of torque the 330i is just not worth it in Europe. And get a manual transmission.

Skip Breakfast, you can get that Magnum in Europe (in 4 door and the Hemi is indeed available), it's sold as the Chryseler 300C. But I don't recommend that car. It sucks gas and it has a sucky suspension and probably very high insurance rate (and taxes, altough I don't know anything about car tax in the UK). It does look cool tough.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Goldfinger:
Get the 330d, NOT the 330i. Or second hand 530d if you can get it (E39). The diesel gets much much better mileage and it has heaps of torque the 330i is just not worth it in Europe. And get a manual transmission.

Skip Breakfast, you can get that Magnum in Europe (in 4 door and the Hemi is indeed available), it's sold as the Chryseler 300C. But I don't recommend that car. It sucks gas and it has a sucky suspension and probably very high insurance rate (and taxes, altough I don't know anything about car tax in the UK). It does look cool tough.

Goldfinger - this is something quite close to my heart. I used to hate diesels (the old ones were crud in cars) but the lats 5 years or so has seen some fantastic oil burners. I was very much of the opinion that the 330d is the car to get except one day I started to think a little more about it. To get the equivilant car (if used then mileage, specs etc) I will need to pay betwen �1000 and �2000 more than the 330i. I average about 10000 miles a year so not too much. By coincidence, Autocar (a UK car magazine) ran a story on it a couple of weeks ago and did some comparisons on what you would save with the diesel. They have a comparision between the 330i and 330d. Over three years at 12000 miles a year it was only a stupidly small fuel saving of about �300 by having the diesel (unlike Europe, diesel is actuall a few pence a litre MORE than petrol here ). Couple this with the increased initial cost of the vehicle and it is going to cost me more to have the 330d.

Now, I may find it a nicer car to drive (due to the torque) but is it worth it? It is one of the best diesel engines in the world (along with the V10 VW diesel) but the 3.0l petrol straight six BMW engine is a smooth operator!

I think the answer is I will have to test drive both!

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by jebjeb:
Goldfinger - this is something quite close to my heart. I used to hate diesels (the old ones were crud in cars) but the lats 5 years or so has seen some fantastic oil burners. I was very much of the opinion that the 330d is the car to get except one day I started to think a little more about it. To get the equivilant car (if used then mileage, specs etc) I will need to pay betwen �0 and �0 more than the 330i. I average about 10000 miles a year so not too much. By coincidence, Autocar (a UK car magazine) ran a story on it a couple of weeks ago and did some comparisons on what you would save with the diesel. They have a comparision between the 330i and 330d. Over three years at 12000 miles a year it was only a stupidly small fuel saving of about � by having the diesel (unlike Europe, diesel is actuall a few pence a litre MORE than petrol here ). Couple this with the increased initial cost of the vehicle and it is going to cost me more to have the 330d.

Now, I may find it a nicer car to drive (due to the torque) but is it worth it? It is one of the best diesel engines in the world (along with the V10 VW diesel) but the 3.0l petrol straight six BMW engine is a smooth operator!

I think the answer is I will have to test drive both!

Woops, yeah forgot about diesel prices in the UK. Well indeed you'll have to test drive them both. But the torque in the 330d is really fantastic. How about road tax in the UK ?

[ManOfSteal]

Have you considered the VW Touareg?

[crazeazn]

holden monaro teehee

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Have you considered the VW Touareg?

Funny you mention the Touareg. My Mum and Dad just bought one back in Australia. I was just out there on holiday so I drove it quite a bit. Wonderful vehicle. Sadly it is covered (specifically) by my wifes request for no SUV's. She is not ready for a big car like that and partly I can understand that here in London. With parking sensors and such they actually aren't that big but... what can you do. Next car will probably be something like that.

At one stage I was looking at a Porsche Cayenne. Different price range of course but that got ruled out. In a few years we will be living in Oz or out of London so maybe something like that will be on the cards then.

Nice suggestion though!

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by crazeazn:
holden monaro teehee

Nice one! They are selling the Monaro here under the Vauxhal brand (the local GM brand). Nice enough car but only two doors and I wouldn't pay the money they want for them here in the UK when they are so much cheaper back in Australia.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Goldfinger:
Woops, yeah forgot about diesel prices in the UK. Well indeed you'll have to test drive them both. But the torque in the 330d is really fantastic. How about road tax in the UK ?

Firstly, sorry about the individual replies. I am not trying toboost my post cound. Just got back from the pub and couldn't be ar5ed trying to quote you all in one message.

Looking forward to test driving both. Should be very interesting. I am a torque man so the diesel is looking good for that!

[macroy]

You mentioned a 330.. and a used M5 (E39) - how 'bout a used M3? IMO handles better than both.. and has everything a 330 has (except the spare). Those M5's are rockets for the size of the car... but you can't throw them around like a 3... And since you're in Europe - CSL?

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by macroy:
You mentioned a 330.. and a used M5 (E39) - how 'bout a used M3? IMO handles better than both.. and has everything a 330 has (except the spare). Those M5's are rockets for the size of the car... but you can't throw them around like a 3... And since you're in Europe - CSL?

It's a 2 door... And probably really high insurance rate and I tend to advice against a CSL. No way he can buy one for cheap either.

[nerd]

Getting rid of the Mini?!!? My girlfriend just got one and mine is on the boat right now. That's our 2 kids. I would personally find a way to fit the kids in the car but that's just me. I love driving and the Mini is fun. I can only recommend you keep the Mini.

Brad

[wdlove]

Congratulations on the upcoming birth.

My vote would be for the Volvo. Probably one of the safest cars on the road. It has a reinforced steel cage, so the important package is better protected.

[ajprice]

OK, a bit of a funky suggestion away from the German car standard choices:

SEAT Altea 2.0TDI DSG, �17,600, Insurance Group 8, Sat Nav a �1600 option
Funky looking Golf based tall 5dr with the DSG paddle gearbox from the Audi TT V6

links to a few other pictures cos this ain't a pic orgy thread yet!
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/S...-red-f3q-s.jpg
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/S...ge/04-dash.jpg

Looks better with big wheels (17"s are an option). And I know I said 'away from the German standard car choices' but this is a Golf underneath, and if you need a bigger boot there's the Toledo, which looks similar except for having a bit of a notchback shape (which kills the looks if you ask me, but hey...)
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/uploa...ed_600_027.jpg

[effgee]

I test-drove a Volvo S60 T5 (260hp) two weeks ago. Had never driven (or even seen from the inside) a Volvo before.

To sum up my experience in two words: Very disappointing.

• The car rattles and creaks whenever you drive over so much as an old chewing gum that's stuck to the road. A lot worse so than my Z3 Coupe which comes with much stiffer shocks.
• If I hadn't known that the car has a 260hp engine, I would've guessed 200hp at most - acceleration (at least the personal/subjective experience thereof) is nothing to write home about.
• But the worst part was the interior: not enough room (length-wise) for you thighs in the driver seat, relatively cheap looking leather (it's not terrible, but not acceptable for a car in that price range) and then there's the switches/buttons/dials on the dash and (worst of all) on the center console - that telephone/radio combo thing - hideous, absolutely hideous. Each and every one of them looks like it came straight out of $7000 Daewoo. Horrid.

For me, the interior was the straw that broke the camel's back - if the V50 looks anything like that, I strongly recommend you take a closer look at either the BMW (worst of the bunch), the Mercedes or an Audi A4.

I was actually looking forward to testing and maybe even buying a Volvo - boy was I dosappointed.

[jebjeb]

Macroy - M3's are great - but as Goldfinger said, they are only 2 doors (except the next version due in 06/07)

Nerd - I know, it is such a shame to get rid of the Mini. It is such an amazing car and has been so good for us two. We have done quite a few trips over Europe with the most notable trip being last year doing nearly 3000 miles in two weeks through France, Germany, Austria and Italy. One of the things I love about it so much is that you don't have to be going stupidly fast to enjoy it. Squirting about through crazy, windy, cliff edge Italian roads was great. Plus once you jumped on the motorway it could do a fairly comfortable 120 mph cruise.

The thing is that it is not going to be practical for a baby. There is no switch to disable the passenger airbag (I guess you could pull the fuse but I don't like the idea of that) and it is just too difficult to get a seat or capsule in to the back seats. We have thought about keep it as a second car but we just don't have the need for a second car. Plus the insurance and garage costs...

Sadly, it has to go.

Ajprice - I don't mind Seat's and they are a VAG vehicle. The 2 litre diesels just don't have enough poke for me. I do quite like their Leon Cupra R though (could be an older model).

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by effgee:
I test-drove a Volvo S60 T5 (260hp) two weeks ago. Had never driven (or even seen from the inside) a Volvo before.

-snip-

For me, the interior was the straw that broke the camel's back - if the V50 looks anything like that, I strongly recommend you take a closer look at either the BMW (worst of the bunch), the Mercedes or an Audi A4.

I was actually looking forward to testing and maybe even buying a Volvo - boy was I dosappointed.

I know what you mean. The V50 I drove was well put together, probably better than the S60 as the design is a little younger. It was nice inside but more mid-premium than the BM's and such. I guess you do save the money though.

What you say about the speed/power is very true. It was quick but subjectivly just didn't seem it.

Audi is one I left off my list. I have a tainted relationship with Audi. My brother had a previous shape A4 Avant. It was a nice car but rode terribly and was poorly packaged. I know they improved and that now their interior quality is second to none is some respects. However, Audi's idea of injecting more sportiness into a vehicle is to weight up the steering a lot and tighten up the undercarriage. The steering still lacks feel and there may be little body roll and such but the my experience is they crash around a bit. I wil test drive one though.

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by jebjeb:
My brother had a previous shape A4 Avant. It was a nice car but rode terribly and was poorly packaged.

Horrible suspension ?

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Goldfinger:
Horrible suspension ?

Yeah. For a car that had less sporting intent than my Mini, the suspension was hard with what seemed to be little travel and overly quick rebound. It was a used car but had supposedly been "lovenly look after" by the Audi dealer. I have rode in other examples and found the same to be true.

I will need to take a more recent model for a drive so I can from a decent opinion on a more contempeory example.

I am trying to keep an open mind with this but I guess experience plays a big part.

Something that non brits/Europeans may not realise is that our vehicles over here are tuned quite differently to American/Australia cars. This is talking about the same make and model of vehicle as well. A UK model BMW will ride and handle differently to a US version. Generally, that difference is the US version is a bit softer than the European version. Anyone else back me up on this?

[zwiebel_]

The ultimate in Fahrvergn�gen�.



Bought one in '02 with a tip-tronic, just before we had our first one. Now, I am spolied

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by zwiebel_:
The ultimate in Fahrvergn�gen�.



Bought one in '02 with a tip-tronic, just before we had our first one. Now, I am spolied

Had to ask my wife what that meant (she is fluent in German). Not sure if it is true but Passats are quite a nice car. I just read a review of the new model and it looks great. Love the interior (really borrowing from the toeurag) and looks like it drives well. I would be interested to see what they are like when they become available over here.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Congratulations on the upcoming birth.

Forgot to say, thanks for the congrats, wdlove!

Go for the first scan next Thursday. Should be great!

[macroy]

Originally posted by jebjeb:
Macroy - M3's are great - but as Goldfinger said, they are only 2 doors (except the next version due in 06/07)

--Snip--

Duh... that completely slipped my mind. Congrats on the good news. How far along is she? We are also expecting our first...

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by macroy:
Duh... that completely slipped my mind. Congrats on the good news. How far along is she? We are also expecting our first...

Still quite early. About 13 weeks. How about you?

[angelmb]

Firstly, congrats about the baby :-)

Fahrvergn�gen --> driving pleasure.

Although you need to try a Benz, seriously

I would say, get the new M Class, but since your wife is not going to cope a SUV Anyway, if space is a real issue, what about getting real 'Espace' ?

[Goldfinger]

Originally posted by jebjeb:
Yeah. For a car that had less sporting intent than my Mini, the suspension was hard with what seemed to be little travel and overly quick rebound. It was a used car but had supposedly been "lovenly look after" by the Audi dealer. I have rode in other examples and found the same to be true.

I will need to take a more recent model for a drive so I can from a decent opinion on a more contempeory example.

Well, I can tell you that they ALL suffer from a horrible suspension. From the cheapest to the the most expensive Audi. If you read some car magazines then you'll find that every time they test an Audi they will mention this as a serious problem. I really don't get why Audi is so popular these days. They are boring, have crap suspensions and don't have as much style as a BMW or a Mercedes and VAG diesels are pretty noisy. But I'm maybe a bit biased by the 2 bad experiences we have had with Audis. They seem to be really popular in the states these days. Especially the A8, over here you don't see a lot of A8s, people don't like them over here, including me.
On a side note: My mother has this replacement Golf (het Merc is in the shop for a new bumper) and I've driven it today and yesterday and I must say that it's well built actually but the engine is really really noisy (1.9 TDI 90bhp).

The Espace is a really nice option. My dad drives an Espace 3.0 V6 Diesel Initiale. It's really nice, full option and really fast for such a big beast.

But do get back to us when you test drove some cars

[V12]

how about a audi a4 or a6 avant (estate) ?

if not a passat wagon (estate) may be a good one as well.

[Garage81]

i have an '03 325i. its been great to me so far, and the warranty covers *everything*

my vote is for the beamer

[Mastrap]

Just a quick note on the stick vs. automatic debate: I thought I never would drive anything automatic (my car at the time was a 1964 non syncro Land Rover IIa) until I bough an old Jag straight six. I loved it, especially in London traffic. Like the sat nav you've mentioned it took the stress out of driving.

I know that this is probably not at all what you're looking for, but if you'd be willing to get a car that's a little bit older, you can get a Jaguar for next to nothing. Mine (1988 model) cost me �2000 and was in as near factory condition as a car could possibly be. Power everything, leather everything, fast and ultra luxurious. I took it to Europe, a joy to drive long distance. PM me if you want an introduction to a decent garage in Whitechapel where the boys take care of old-ish cars.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
Just a quick note on the stick vs. automatic debate: I thought I never would drive anything automatic (my car at the time was a 1964 non syncro Land Rover IIa) until I bough an old Jag straight six. I loved it, especially in London traffic. Like the sat nav you've mentioned it took the stress out of driving.

I know that this is probably not at all what you're looking for, but if you'd be willing to get a car that's a little bit older, you can get a Jaguar for next to nothing. Mine (1988 model) cost me �2000 and was in as near factory condition as a car could possibly be. Power everything, leather everything, fast and ultra luxurious. I took it to Europe, a joy to drive long distance. PM me if you want an introduction to a decent garage in Whitechapel where the boys take care of old-ish cars.

Thanks mate. I had a friend who had an old V12 Jag and he used to take it tracking! Great cars but I guess not really what I am after.

As for the manual v Auto, I am not ruleing auto's out. If it is a decent 5/6 speed auto that is smooth and doesn't kill the fuel economy then I would consider it. I am going to drive both and see. I can really see the use of it in London. But also, I don't mind swapping cogs myself.

[jebjeb]

Originally posted by V12:
how about a audi a4 or a6 avant (estate) ?

if not a passat wagon (estate) may be a good one as well.

I went for a look at the Audi dealership yesterday. Initial impressions were very disapointing as I had to wait nearly 15 minutes to be served.

Had a good look at the 5 door A3 Sportback and the A4 Avant. Both nice cars that are extremmely well put together. One of my pet peeves with 4/5 door cars is the room between the front of the back seat bolster (the bit you sit on) and the B-pillar. In y brothers older A4, this was tiny and I had to twist and turn my feet to get them in the car. Once in, the legroom wasn't bad but I hated getting in and out of the thing. Mind you, I am never going to sit in the back of my new car but I like to think of the people who are!

This was much improved on the newer ones. The funny thing is, I couldn't see any difference in interior size (except for the boot) between the A4 and the A3 Sportback! Personally, I prefer the A3.

A3 Sportback


I think I will take one for a test drive. Either the 3.2l or probabl the 2.0l FSi. May even try the DSG (sequential manual) gear box that everyone is raving about.

[andretan]

How about the Peugeot 307 or 407 estates?