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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Did the Macbook Air just get *****slapped?

Did the Macbook Air just get *****slapped? (Page 2)
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ctt1wbw
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Sep 6, 2008, 01:50 PM
 
Better components are going to mean higher prices. I think BMW's are overpriced when compared to a Kia. They both do the same thing, right?
     
Arkham_c
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Sep 6, 2008, 03:03 PM
 
This laptop is compelling to me. The MB Air has never been a consideration to me because of the price. I don't need a $1800 laptop, but a $350 laptop is pretty close to being cheap enough to be an impulse purchase.

If I had one, I'd use it for web surfing. That's it. I do software development on my Linux workstation at work. I use my Mac Pro at home for all my real computing needs (surfing, email, photo work, video work, gaming), so this would be a nice complement to that.
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Chuckit
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Sep 6, 2008, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Geofries View Post
The way I see it is, if you are using the Air to accomplish things that the Mini 9 cannot, then you wasted your money on the Air, because if you wanted a workstation you passed on two infinitely better choices in the MB and MBP.
They're not infinitely better. The Air is less powerful, and unquestionably a worse value to me, but that's because I don't value size that much after a certain point. If sleek form is always valuable to you, the Air is a pretty compelling option. I'm not sure who actually sees things that way, but there it is. It's actually not that much worse than the MacBook, just more expensive.
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darkmatter
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Sep 6, 2008, 04:19 PM
 
Hello

With the optional WiFi/Bluetooth/Webcam included and 1 Gb RAM and 16 SSD the Dell Inspiron Mini 9 costs $494 USD

Maybe we should wait and see what Apple offers with an Intel® Atom Processor inside, a 9" iPod touch wouldn't be that bad

Regards
     
matt_s
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Sep 6, 2008, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
They're not infinitely better. The Air is less powerful, and unquestionably a worse value to me, but that's because I don't value size that much after a certain point. If sleek form is always valuable to you, the Air is a pretty compelling option. I'm not sure who actually sees things that way, but there it is. It's actually not that much worse than the MacBook, just more expensive.
The MBA is much less powerful than my Blackbook. The bottleneck is in the parallel ATA drive, which is also a huge bummer because Air owners cannot leverage any of the new SATA (serial) solid state drives coming on to the market now.

While the Air is definitely a cool machine, removing functionality & features is not innovation, it's simple de-featuring. Thin has not been a problem in laptops since, oh, maybe back in 1994 when laptops were 4-5" thick. This has not been an issue for many years now.

$1700 for one USB port IMHO is a bit ridiculous. A gal in our office has an Air and just to plug a USB thumb drive in, she has to unplug the Ethernet cable & jockey the thumb drive and her net connection. She can't plug an application dongle in and log on to the web site simultaneously, it's just worthless in this sort of environment. It's obviously a machine for folks who can stomach the limited IO. I can't.

What I think Apple needs is a modification of the MacBook product, call it the MacBook Trail, a true road warrior machine.

The Trail would not have a DVD drive, but perhaps one could be purchased separately. It would sport all the IO that the MacBook has now with the addition of a CF/SD slot for photographers. It would also have a bottom slot for an extra battery, ala the venerable and magnificent WallStreet, Pismo and Lombard designs. This would make those 9 hour flights ORD-CDG and 16 hours LAX-MEL and 13 hours HKG-SFO all worthwhile work sessions. I can't afford to travel business class all the time (that's where the power plugs are!), and unlike Steve, I don't have my own jet

This machine would sport a 12" LCD because 9-10-11" are just too small to read consistently, and 13-15-17" are too large for the seat back tray on aircraft, and too heavy to tote all over the world. Twelve inches just works & fits perfectly on that seat back tray (man, I miss my PB G4 12").

To accommodate the 12" LCD, the MacBook's fantastic keyboard would need to be slightly redesigned to gain the added space needed. There are opportunities here: remove the ENTER key; cut the CAPS LOCK key in half; no optical drive means the Eject key is not required; and, the Shift keys could be reduced in size.

If Apple put a real, grown up, two button mouse on the Trail (hey, a fellow can dream, can't he?), there would be no need for the CTRL key. Let's face it: it should never take two hands to do on a Mac what it takes one finger to do in Windows.

Adding a 320 GB SATA drive to the Trail means when you're on the other side of the planet, you can tote every PPT presentation, every PDF spec sheet and every XLS BOM file from every customer's project with you, instead of hauling only snippets of your business.

What would make this laptop truly special was if Apple added an external DVI port to the iMac desk model, and a keyboard command that would allow you to connect your Trail by 1394 and DVI, switch back and forth between your desktop & laptop, and review and sync files. Apple could sell an iMac and a Trail as a desktop/laptop combination system, rolled into one.

And most importantly, make the Trail out of high impact plastic, I do not wish to return to the limited WiFi range I used to have in my old Titanium PowerBook G4 (15); Al G4 (12 & 15); and, Al Intel (15) MacBook Pro. I love the Blackbook's superior WiFi capability... it turns out that metal does make a good shield! Who woulda thunk?

My travel schedule takes me all over the world, well over 150,000 air miles a year, and I'd really like to have a MacBook-type OS X laptop in the 3-4 pound range with no sacrifices on IO or storage, and a 12" LCD for comfy working on a seat back tray. I believe a lot of road warriors would as well.
( Last edited by matt_s; Sep 6, 2008 at 07:10 PM. )
     
matt_s
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Sep 6, 2008, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Better components are going to mean higher prices. I think BMW's are overpriced when compared to a Kia. They both do the same thing, right?
Do you get laid because you own a Kia?
     
hyteckit
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Sep 6, 2008, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

$1700 for one USB port IMHO is a bit ridiculous. A gal in our office has an Air and just to plug a USB thumb drive in, she has to unplug the Ethernet cable & jockey the thumb drive and her net connection. She can't plug an application dongle in and log on to the web site simultaneously, it's just worthless in this sort of environment. It's obviously a machine for folks who can stomach the limited IO. I can't.
Buy her a USB hub.
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matt_s
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Sep 6, 2008, 06:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Buy her a USB hub.
Dongle doesn't work in a hub.

What's the point of toting an ultra-light when you have to schlep extra gear?
     
mduell
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Sep 6, 2008, 10:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
The MBA is much less powerful than my Blackbook. The bottleneck is in the parallel ATA drive, which is also a huge bummer because Air owners cannot leverage any of the new SATA (serial) solid state drives coming on to the market now.
It's not the hard drive interface that limits the MacBook Air's hard drive options or performance; it's the thin 1.8" hard drive bay. There aren't any thin 1.8" SATA drives that beat the options the MBA has.
     
Eug
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Sep 6, 2008, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Better components are going to mean higher prices. I think BMW's are overpriced when compared to a Kia. They both do the same thing, right?
They do. And since you started the (always bad) car analogy...

My Prius costs less than a BMW, but has a better repair record, gets better gas mileage, and is more roomy than most BMWs on the road. The BMW is faster, but I don't care.


Originally Posted by matt_s
If Apple put a real, grown up, two button mouse on the Trail (hey, a fellow can dream, can't he?), there would be no need for the CTRL key. Let's face it: it should never take two hands to do on a Mac what it takes one finger to do in Windows.
It doesn't. There is an option in the prefs to use 2-finger right-button select with the trackpad. This is much more convenient IMO than having two physical buttons.
( Last edited by Eug; Sep 6, 2008 at 11:02 PM. )
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
There is an option in the prefs to use 2-finger right-button select with the trackpad. This is much more convenient IMO than having two physical buttons.
Not for me. When it comes to input devices, I would prefer a solid, hardware solution over any software solution. I don't want to have to use two fingers, either on a trackpad or on yet another Apple control-click absurdity.

Give me a grown-up, honest to goodness real two-button hardware based mouse. I have one for my Mac desktop (and virtually everyone I know does too) and I want a built-in one for my Mac laptop.
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
It's not the hard drive interface that limits the MacBook Air's hard drive options or performance; it's the thin 1.8" hard drive bay. There aren't any thin 1.8" SATA drives that beat the options the MBA has.
Correct. As I wrote, the bottleneck is the parallel hard drive. We agree here.
     
Chuckit
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Sep 7, 2008, 01:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
Not for me. When it comes to input devices, I would prefer a solid, hardware solution over any software solution. I don't want to have to use two fingers, either on a trackpad or on yet another Apple control-click absurdity.

Give me a grown-up, honest to goodness real two-button hardware based mouse. I have one for my Mac desktop (and virtually everyone I know does too) and I want a built-in one for my Mac laptop.
I use a two-button mouse on all my desktops and have since before OS X, but the two-finger clicking is much more natural for me on a laptop. There's no occasion where I'm going to be clicking on the trackpad button and not have my fingers near the trackpad, and I find thumb-clicking on most right trackpad buttons to be a little awkward whereas clicking while my fingers are on the trackpad is the most natural thing in the world. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I really can't see anything wrong with it and I see a whole lot right.
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Eug
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Sep 7, 2008, 02:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I use a two-button mouse on all my desktops and have since before OS X, but the two-finger clicking is much more natural for me on a laptop. There's no occasion where I'm going to be clicking on the trackpad button and not have my fingers near the trackpad, and I find thumb-clicking on most right trackpad buttons to be a little awkward whereas clicking while my fingers are on the trackpad is the most natural thing in the world. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I really can't see anything wrong with it and I see a whole lot right.
Exactly. I prefer 2-button mice for desktops, but for laptops, Apple's 2-finger trackpad method is the most ergonomic.
     
ctt1wbw
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
Not for me. When it comes to input devices, I would prefer a solid, hardware solution over any software solution. I don't want to have to use two fingers, either on a trackpad or on yet another Apple control-click absurdity.

Give me a grown-up, honest to goodness real two-button hardware based mouse. I have one for my Mac desktop (and virtually everyone I know does too) and I want a built-in one for my Mac laptop.
You are aware that the Mighty Mouse can do a right click, too? Just because it isn't a grown-up, honest to goodness real two button mouse, doesn't mean it can't right click. This is one of the oldest and dumbest arguments I've ever heard, and I've been hearing for over twenty years now.
     
ctt1wbw
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
Dongle doesn't work in a hub.

What's the point of toting an ultra-light when you have to schlep extra gear?
You aren't "forced" to schlep extra gear if you don't want to. If you need to, don't buy something that will make you have to, just so you can berate and argue the merits of something. I don't need all the extra gear for my Macbook Air. I don't own a firewire drive, I have a usb mouse, and a few usb plug in devices, such as a Canon Powershot camera, and an iPod Touch. When I want to use them, I unplug one to use the other. I've never come across a situation where I needed both used at the same time. There are many people who are not that power hungry that they need fourteen million usb ports and twenty five thousand firewire ports. Hell, I can't even tell the difference in speed between my Air's hard drive and my Dell's hard drive. I know that my Air is much faster than my iMac G5, though.
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 08:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
You are aware that the Mighty Mouse can do a right click, too? Just because it isn't a grown-up, honest to goodness real two button mouse, doesn't mean it can't right click. This is one of the oldest and dumbest arguments I've ever heard, and I've been hearing for over twenty years now.
I never mentioned Apple's mouse product. I've tried it, I don't like it, I don't own one, I don't want one, and what in heaven's name does that have to do with anything, anyway? Now, I'm suddenly full of old and dumb ideas. Sweet.

All I asked for was a true hardware two button mouse on a Mac OS X laptop product. Why isn't a guy allowed to dream here? What's up with you people?
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 08:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
You aren't "forced" to schlep extra gear if you don't want to. If you need to, don't buy something that will make you have to, just so you can berate and argue the merits of something. I don't need all the extra gear for my Macbook Air. I don't own a firewire drive, I have a usb mouse, and a few usb plug in devices, such as a Canon Powershot camera, and an iPod Touch. When I want to use them, I unplug one to use the other. I've never come across a situation where I needed both used at the same time. There are many people who are not that power hungry that they need fourteen million usb ports and twenty five thousand firewire ports. Hell, I can't even tell the difference in speed between my Air's hard drive and my Dell's hard drive. I know that my Air is much faster than my iMac G5, though.
Good for you, I'm very happy for you.

I didn't buy an Air, I just watch a young lady in my office keep trying to use it and it cracks me up. If you're willing to spend all that money for one USB port, God bless ya, you're exactly the customer Apple was looking for.

BTW, I'd like to see that laptop with 14M USB & 25k 1394 ports. Now, were those 1394a or b? That puppy must weigh several hundred pounds!
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 08:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Exactly. I prefer 2-button mice for desktops, but for laptops, Apple's 2-finger trackpad method is the most ergonomic.
For you. The most ergonomic for you.

For myself, I would prefer a two-button mouse. These were specs for my dream Mac laptop. That's all.
     
ctt1wbw
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Sep 7, 2008, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
I never mentioned Apple's mouse product. I've tried it, I don't like it, I don't own one, I don't want one, and what in heaven's name does that have to do with anything, anyway? Now, I'm suddenly full of old and dumb ideas. Sweet.

All I asked for was a true hardware two button mouse on a Mac OS X laptop product. Why isn't a guy allowed to dream here? What's up with you people?

Okay, you can right click with the thing on a current Mac laptop now. I've seen it done. I do it all day. Just because it doesn't have two buttons, doesn't mean it can not right click.
     
mduell
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Sep 7, 2008, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
Correct. As I wrote, the bottleneck is the parallel hard drive. We agree here.
No, the limit is the physical hard drive size, not the bus. There are no better SATA drives that would fit in the confines of the MBA.
     
dimmer
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Sep 7, 2008, 03:41 PM
 
Dongle doesn't work in a hub.

That's a problem you should take up with whatever vendor requires the use of a Dongle that can't cope with a hub: it's in no way an Apple problem.

What's the point of toting an ultra-light when you have to schlep extra gear?

At the office, she has a hub. It stays there. The MacBook Air can live without it (as I'm sure she can). Schlep only what you want.
     
Chuckit
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Sep 7, 2008, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
All I asked for was a true hardware two button mouse on a Mac OS X laptop product.
You can have a true hardware two-button mouse on a laptop. I use one all the time. What you want is a two-button trackpad, which I think is a worse solution than what Apple has now. So I'm counterdreaming and explaining why.
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matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by dimmer View Post
Dongle doesn't work in a hub.

That's a problem you should take up with whatever vendor requires the use of a Dongle that can't cope with a hub: it's in no way an Apple problem.
That's truly a comical response. A dongle requires a host USB port. Why would any vendor in their right mind plan ahead for a stripped down, de-featured computer that has ONE LONE USB port? Who possibly could've foreseen that not only would a computer manufacturer seriously offer such a machine to the market but that customers would actually buy it? It's a total absurdity.

The fact is: the Air is simply not an acceptable solution for someone who must plug an application dongle into a host USB port and connect to the internet by Ethernet. That's the problem. A different machine needs to be used in this particular environment. A serious technical mind would not demand that a dongle supplier alter their product by completely re-designing the way USB exchanges packets with the host computer and the internet server side application.

You gotta get real here.
     
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
You can have a true hardware two-button mouse on a laptop. I use one all the time. What you want is a two-button trackpad, which I think is a worse solution than what Apple has now. So I'm counterdreaming and explaining why.
I stand corrected. Yes, I want a two-button trackpad mouse on a Mac OS X laptop. The one button mouse pad was fine for my daughter when she was 8 years old but now, years later, she wants a 2 button trackpad mouse as well.

Why can't this be an option? I just don't understand why - or even how - people can get so fired up about one damned button. It's silly, childish and absurdly hilarious, as though Godot had finally arrived...
     
matt_s
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
No, the limit is the physical hard drive size, not the bus. There are no better SATA drives that would fit in the confines of the MBA.
Yes, we're agreeing. I only made use of the word parallel to explain why new solid state serial drives cannot be used in the Air. It had nothing to do with the bus.
     
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:20 PM
 
I have to agree with matt_s here. As mush as love mac notebooks and I own plenty of them. I still hope that Apple is humble enough to admit that two-button track pad (or mice whatever you call them) is better than one. I guess it was all stemmed from the old days "Mac better than PC" comparison. But time has changed, and we all saw that two-button mice make much sense in modern day computers. Otherwise, why Apple makes the mighty mice or the laptop trackpads two-mutton "sensitive" (or "awareness")?

True, you can use two fingers for the second the button by the trackpad setting, but that means for a simple right click you are actually using three fingers to accomplish what can be done by just one middle finger!

Just try it on your Finder desktop, create a new folder, see how many finger movement you need to make with a two-button mouse or the trackpad......
     
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:26 PM
 
The only real thing the dongle problem proves is how utterly INSANE it is to require a hardware dongle for software.

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Sep 7, 2008, 07:46 PM
 
They aren't comparable, sorry. The 1024x600?? screen kinda makes the entire machine useless. I'm pretty sure I can find dialog boxes in OS X and Windows that would be cut off at that resolution. Lots of useful software won't even run below 1024x768 (I'm remembering my last attempt at running Delorme's GPS software on my old Viewsonic tablet).

Sure, a little portable machine for cheap would be great... but with a screen resolution that small, it's utility is limited.
     
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Sep 7, 2008, 08:57 PM
 
Personally speaking I'd much rather have two fingers on the trackpad than fumble for the second button. I use the two finger scroll all of the time, so this makes perfect sense to me.
     
mduell
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Sep 7, 2008, 09:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
Yes, we're agreeing. I only made use of the word parallel to explain why new solid state serial drives cannot be used in the Air. It had nothing to do with the bus.
The new SATA drives can't be used because they're 2.5" and won't fit in the bay; having a SATA interface is secondary. The new miniPCIe drives may be usable, because they could fit in the hard drive bay with an IDE adapter.
     
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Sep 7, 2008, 10:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
In my case, I haven't purchased the Air because of the price, the slow hard drive, and the lack of Firewire.
Well the way things are moving, outside of the movie industry FW is pretty dead as a standard, and USB 3 is only helping it along.


I really think the air needs to be $1500. It's a bit pricey for the tradeoffs at the moment.
     
Nergol
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Sep 7, 2008, 11:44 PM
 
They aren't comparable, sorry. The 1024x600?? screen kinda makes the entire machine useless.
Would this be a bad time to bring up the 640x400 screen on the Powerbook 165C that got me through college?
     
dimmer
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Sep 8, 2008, 12:17 AM
 
That's truly a comical response. A dongle requires a host USB port. Why would any vendor in their right mind plan ahead for a stripped down, de-featured computer that has ONE LONE USB port?

I'm glad you found it amusing: I wasn't going for the funny but you know, what the heck eh?

Of course you could turn your assessment around and ask why any USB dongle vendor would assume that they'd have a host USB port, and not have to deal with a hub or other technology in the mix? I can see having a dongle that requires a powered port, but needing a port right on the computer? With USB as an industry standard, known specs and all? That's just sloppy. ADB dongles never had any such requirement.

The "one lone USB port" on the Air exists because USB is designed to work with hubs, and when you don't need a hub, you don't need more than one port.
     
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Sep 8, 2008, 11:48 AM
 
I have to admit, I would love and in an instant buy a Netbook (At least that's the jargon I've head used for these small laptops) that was a 10" version of the Macbook Air (Yes only USB is fine too!), Identical design just a baby version with even an Intel Atom (Intel will have dual core versions very soon!). There are many times when I would just love to carry something with me for quick notes and some web access but beyond what a iPhone can do. The caveat, it has to be $600 or less, I think Apple can do it if they wanted to, but do they want to? I'd buy a MBA but 1800 is just to much, besides it's not that much smaller or lighter then my MBP and at that point I'll just take it, which I do. I think the Dell has its purpose but what can I say I'm also in it for the design and that's where Apple takes the cake! What I don't want and so many do is a tablet! I like a keyboard for input and the clam shell for screen protection. Anyhow my 2 cents not that it was need here

BTW there are youtube videos of OS x hacked on one of the MSI winds (Atom Processor) and it seems to run well enough for some light computer use.
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Sep 8, 2008, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Nergol View Post
Would this be a bad time to bring up the 640x400 screen on the Powerbook 165C that got me through college?
or an iBook G3 SE (800x600) 5 hours battery life...

Does the Inspiron Mini 9 is really $500 worth?
     
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Sep 8, 2008, 05:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Actually, I'm interested in this device. Kinda cool from Dell, which is a change.
I agree. This actually is kind of cool. I think the price point on this is a little high.

It's no competition for the MacBook Air. The Air is not a netbook product at all. It's a sub-notebook. They are different types of products.

I don't see Apple making a netbook though...well wait...iPhone is like one. Maybe Apple has it's foot in the door on this one sort of...
Chris Brown
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Sep 10, 2008, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post
That's truly a comical response. A dongle requires a host USB port. Why would any vendor in their right mind plan ahead for a stripped down, de-featured computer that has ONE LONE USB port? Who possibly could've foreseen that not only would a computer manufacturer seriously offer such a machine to the market but that customers would actually buy it? It's a total absurdity.

The fact is: the Air is simply not an acceptable solution for someone who must plug an application dongle into a host USB port and connect to the internet by Ethernet. That's the problem. A different machine needs to be used in this particular environment. A serious technical mind would not demand that a dongle supplier alter their product by completely re-designing the way USB exchanges packets with the host computer and the internet server side application.

You gotta get real here.
Matt, I think it's YOU who needs to get real here. The name of the product explains it's intended market, it's the MacBook AIR. It was never envisioned for the uses you describe. It's market segment is for those who want a generally fell-featured computer in a very light form factor, AND will generally be used on WIFI. Getting onto a network via ethernet requires a dongle, one you have to purchase separately, this isn't what Apple designed the machine for. The usability issues you describe aren't the fault of the Air, but the fault of the purchaser who didn't buy the correct product to fill their needs. I also don't have an Air, but that's because I know what I need and buy that, that doesn't have any reflection on the Air being a quality product or not.

Also, the comparisons to the EePC, or anything else in that market segment, are laughable. They don't compete against each other in anyway. If you want to complain that you find the Air too expensive, fine that's a valid argument. But comparing it to products that are basically unrelated is pointless and troll-like. That's like saying an iPod Shuffle competes against an iPod Classic or Touch because they're both music players. Doesn't make much sense does it? Also, the Kia to BMW comparison was quite apt, they both fulfill the same purpose in a way, but achieve them very differently. No one interested in a BMW is going to consider a Kia, they don't compete against each other, so really any comparison in terms of features to price are pretty silly.

P.S. A powered USB hub or even an Apple keyboard will allow you to use a thumbdrive and other USB devices off a single USB port on the computer. There are actual solutions here that don't include bitching about a product that doesn't appeal to YOU.
     
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Sep 10, 2008, 11:01 AM
 
P.S. A powered USB hub or even an Apple keyboard will allow you to use a thumbdrive and other USB devices off a single USB port on the computer. There are actual solutions here that don't include bitching about a product that doesn't appeal to YOU.
I can't use some USB thumbdrives with the Apple keyboard. Not enough power provided. Also, a powered USB hub is a real PITA for portable use.

OTOH, the Air's USB port can provide more power than normal USB ports (for the SuperDrive). I wonder if this might help for USB thumbdrives through non-powered USB hubs.


No one interested in a BMW is going to consider a Kia, they don't compete against each other, so really any comparison in terms of features to price are pretty silly.
Actually, when I bought my car, I looked at BMW, Audi, Volkswagon, and Prius. I bought the Prius.
     
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Sep 11, 2008, 09:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
The biggest shock for me is the price. $350 bucks? Are you kidding me? Yes, the MacBook Air smokes this thing in just about every conceivable way, but it also costs 5 times as much.

I live in a purely Apple world, so I very rarely look at what PC makers are doing. When I saw the price of this thing it really just drove home how overpriced Apple products really are.

This thing does 100% directly compete with the Air. It's a tiny notebook designed to compliment a more full-featured computer. The Dell may not be as fully featured as the Air, but it accomplishes the same basic task. Surfing the web on the go.

To make the pricing even more crazy, Dell has a promotion now where if you buy a regular laptop from them you can get one of these for $99.

I think these eePC's just go to show the desparate nature of many PC manufacturers. These machines can't have decent margins. They are almost loss leaders... when you factor in R&D. (and they are counting on users to add several optional features which actually do have decent margins.)

Apple is not into low margin products which is the reason I don't think you'll ever see an Apple product designed to directly compete in this space.

Recently I saw a deal on DealMac for a SSD 64GB drive for $200 I think. I was blown away. Apple was originally charging $1000 for the SSD option. Clearly these have become far more affordable in recent months. I think we'll see the Air come down soon but it won't be that much. Apple's model is not to significantly lower there price points, but to maintain their price points by adding new/more/better features.

If there aren't decent margins in it, Apple it not make it.
     
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Sep 11, 2008, 10:25 PM
 
I love my Macbook Pro but there was no way I would pay $1799 for the Air as a second computer when I could and did buy the Acer Aspire One for $349 which includes a 120GB hard drive, camera, 1GB of ram, XP (yikes) and I just pop in a bluetooth usb adapter and I'm off. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
     
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Sep 17, 2008, 05:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by gregj777 View Post
I love my Macbook Pro but there was no way I would pay $1799 for the Air as a second computer when I could and did buy the Acer Aspire One for $349 which includes a 120GB hard drive, camera, 1GB of ram, XP (yikes) and I just pop in a bluetooth usb adapter and I'm off. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
Right, and I am by no means justifying the price of the AirBook, but there are some things that it has that you won't find on many machines much less cheaper:

OS X

Multi-Touch Trackpad
Backlit keyboard
MagSafe
802.11n
Bluetooth
LED Display
Thinness

And it looks more badass than anything that Acer could ever make.

I am not saying that it is a better buy than an Eee or Aspire One or MSI Wind or anything, I am just saying that it appeals to different people, and for different reasons.
     
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Sep 17, 2008, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by powerbooks View Post
I have to agree with matt_s here. As mush as love mac notebooks and I own plenty of them. I still hope that Apple is humble enough to admit that two-button track pad (or mice whatever you call them) is better than one. I guess it was all stemmed from the old days "Mac better than PC" comparison. But time has changed, and we all saw that two-button mice make much sense in modern day computers. Otherwise, why Apple makes the mighty mice or the laptop trackpads two-mutton "sensitive" (or "awareness")?

True, you can use two fingers for the second the button by the trackpad setting, but that means for a simple right click you are actually using three fingers to accomplish what can be done by just one middle finger!

Just try it on your Finder desktop, create a new folder, see how many finger movement you need to make with a two-button mouse or the trackpad......
To click the second button you would have to move your wrist, now all you need to do is touch the trackpad with another finger. It's not the count of movements that is important (especially if we are talking ergonomics), rather what the movements are like.
     
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Sep 17, 2008, 09:49 AM
 
I am very used to the two-finger touch on my MacBook Pro. When I go to using a friends PC, it is weird to have to actually move one of my fingers to right-click.

I think that the Mighty-Mouse could be improved, but the trackpad is a really nice feature that the Macbooks have.

I think it will be sooner that other companies start featuring a two-finger double click than Apple will have two buttons on a Macbook.
     
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Sep 20, 2008, 09:38 AM
 
No you don't need to move your wrist if the pad is designed optimistically and your hand position is right. There is also nobody force you to use one finger to touch the second button.
Try is on a mouse, or a real PC notebook.....

Originally Posted by kamina View Post
To click the second button you would have to move your wrist, now all you need to do is touch the trackpad with another finger. It's not the count of movements that is important (especially if we are talking ergonomics), rather what the movements are like.
     
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Sep 20, 2008, 10:59 AM
 
Čil
     
darkmatter
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Sep 25, 2008, 05:35 AM
 
Hello

A new Toshiba SATA 1.8" HDD is out, hopefully the next Macbook Air supports it

http://sdd.toshiba.com/techdocs/PR20...nouncement.pdf

Regards

PS: Great would be also that next Macbook family ist designed with this kind of HDD in mind
     
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Sep 25, 2008, 06:04 AM
 
It comes down to the question if the next MBA will come with SATA (as it should have in the first place) or will retain PATA. Fortunately the latter is not very likely.
     
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Sep 25, 2008, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
It comes down to the question if the next MBA will come with SATA (as it should have in the first place) or will retain PATA. Fortunately the latter is not very likely.
Agreed, but there's other area's within the design (and price) that apple could improve. Ports, chipset, and lowering the price a bit. While I really do like the design, there's little justification to spend more on the MBA and get less then the MB. They need to provide a wider gap in features imo
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Sep 25, 2008, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
While I really do like the design, there's little justification to spend more on the MBA and get less then the MB.
If size and weight is important to you then yes there is.

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