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mugwump · Oct 24, 2001, 01:25 PM

Since iPod is a firewire drive, is it possible to just install OS X onto it and use it as a mobile system on any Firewire mac? Is it a a startup disk?

jwblase · Oct 24, 2001, 01:29 PM

If it can be used as a Firewire target disk... I dont' see why not. Of course, that means Less mp3's

Hmmm.... What if you could put your home folders on the iPod. That way, you could bring your Home folder with you ANYWHERE. Complete with preferences & even some applications.

That way, you'd always have your documents and information wherever you go

(If your mp3's happen to be in your Music folder, then iPod would read the iTunes file in your home folder as the default...)

Just some ideas to spruce up life a bit!!!

JB

KellyHogan · Oct 24, 2001, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by jwblase:
If it can be used as a Firewire target disk... I dont' see why not.

JB

But that means OSX can be pirated around. Oops, Apple.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 24, 2001, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by KellyHogan:


But that means OSX can be pirated around. Oops, Apple.

huh?

how does this change the status quo?
you can put anything you want on external drives.

Millennium · Oct 24, 2001, 02:03 PM

Apparently, it is possible to do this.

Mind you, it's not supported in the least. But it can be done. It would be really cool if Apple had an option to let users sync their Home folders onto iPods, as jwblase is saying.

ratlater · Oct 24, 2001, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Apparently, it is possible to do this.

Mind you, it's not supported in the least. But it can be done. It would be really cool if Apple had an option to let users sync their Home folders onto iPods, as jwblase is saying.

Apple doesn't need to support this feature, almost any backup software allows for folder synching between drives.

-matt

larkost · Oct 24, 2001, 05:13 PM

The official word from Apple is 'yes, but we don't support it'. Meaning that is will work, but if for some reason something screws up, Apple will not help you to fix it. iPods conform to the FireWire Target disk standards, and include the booting specs.

juanvaldes · Oct 24, 2001, 05:37 PM

I think this has been the idea the whole time.
Trim down OS X, put in a G3, color LCD...Newton 2.0!
Or... increase size, and a device like jwblase suggested would be very nice. Imagine 5, 10,20...40? gigs in your shirt pocket. Just take your home from computer to computer. No mess, no fuss. It just auto sync's (as long as there is an account with your name

) your home folder on this new computer.

I think this device has lots of potential but not as an Mp3 player. (though If I didn't have my trusty Rio and being broke I just might consider buying one) There are alot of ways to manipulate this device into a billion different useful gadgets, I have seen plenty already reading these forums, now the only question remains, can apple create these devices, can they do it at a decent price point, will they make any money off them?

of course the over all strategy is to create a whole bunch of gadgets that are so cool and great that on top of OS X kicking ass, and mac just working etc...people will buy them instead of just following the heard and getting windows cause so and so did.

[edit] and it's name! Think mp3's you don't think 'pod' to me 'pod' is a storage device to transfer something from point a to point b, not to jam to tunes on the way. So I think the name is a hint to this devices true potential and overall goal

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: juanvaldes ]

petej · Oct 24, 2001, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by jwblase:
That way, you could bring your Home folder with you ANYWHERE.

It's an even better virus transmission medium than email!

Nebagakid · Oct 24, 2001, 05:56 PM

NO!.

I think there is a feature where you can't put files on another computer than your own or something like that to detier piracy

word out

Rickster · Oct 24, 2001, 06:13 PM

Yes, you could install OS X onto an iPod, since it is just another FireWire drive (that happens to be able to play MP3s stored on it). It wouldn't be all that useful, though: Last I heard, you couldn't boot OS X from an external FireWire drive. Also, booting OS 9 from FireWire only works on more recent Macs... the Summer 2000 G4s and newer, I think.

FAerrorTAL · Oct 24, 2001, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by petej:


It's an even better virus transmission medium than email!

uh.... ok? if you have a virus and no protection, you're screwed anyway. what's the different what media you use? if you're so affraid of virii that you won't use a drive under your sole control to sync two computers, why are you online? why are you using a computer?

just use protection.
i think i'll stop opening email because of virii? ok

adios
aaron

Millennium · Oct 24, 2001, 07:26 PM

I think there is a feature where you can't put files on another computer than your own or something like that to detier piracy

Not quite. Here's how it works. The iPod cannot "see" any files that were put onto it in disc mode; only Macs can do that. This includes MP3's, so while you can put MP3's on an iPod in disc mode, it won't be able to play them (you will, however, be able to transfer them between computers normally, as with any other file).

The reverse is also true, though: Macs cannot "see" any files that are put onto the iPod in music mode. So once MP3's go in for playing, you can't get them out. This is why you should keep backups of the files.

Developer · Oct 24, 2001, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Rickster:

Last I heard, you couldn't boot OS X from an external FireWire drive. Also, booting OS 9 from FireWire only works on more recent Macs... the Summer 2000 G4s and newer, I think.

My Cube boots OS X and OS 9 just fine from an external FireWire drive.

That could actually be quite cool. You take your home folder and OS from home to your workplace/school/friends etc. plug your iPott in, and while you're on your way you listen to your music.

I might actually buy one for this purpose (don't need an mp3 player) when they arrive at $250.

developer

mmurray · Oct 24, 2001, 10:13 PM

I'm not sure whey everybody is getting excited about this aspect of iPOD. Small, fit in your pocket Firewire drives are not new -- check out www.vsttech.com for example.

Mind you it makes it easy to claim as an expense. `Yeh I just need to buy a 5 gig external hard drive for file transfer, its only $399, apple make one ..." :-)

Michael

IUJHJSDHE · Oct 25, 2001, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by FAerrorTAL:


uh.... ok? if you have a virus and no protection, you're screwed anyway. what's the different what media you use? if you're so affraid of virii that you won't use a drive under your sole control to sync two computers, why are you online? why are you using a computer?

just use protection.
i think i'll stop opening email because of virii? ok

adios
aaron

uh.... no! If you have a virus on your computer does not meen your computer if infected with it. It could still be in egg form (as I call it). Basicly a virus can be on your computer as one program waiting to be opened. Once open then your infected.

ipod might have an interestion potention for hackers who use viruses to get into computers!

I don't know?

kman42 · Oct 25, 2001, 01:57 AM

I like the idea of the iPod merging into a suped up PDA. I bet they already have prototypes for it. It's not much different than the iPod. It could be the same thinkness as the iPod,but the length and width of a Palm. If they have the power to run a hard drive for 10 hrs, they must be getting close to running a 350 Mhz G3, a hard drive, and a small LCD for 4-5 hours. You wouldn't need much processing power to do aqua-like effects on a small screen. And with full fledged apps running on it that would be awesome. Since it could run OSX, then developers could just provide slimmed down interfaces for the device without rewriting most of their code. Using Cocoa, couldn't Apple pretty easily provide the tools to map interface elements from a big screen down to the device?

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

kman

mugwump · Oct 25, 2001, 03:01 AM

Um, isn't that the point? Sure there are firewire drives out there, but this one is useful even without a computer. It's the first hard drive that provides entertainment even when unplugged.

I can see a commercial now: Sitting on a train as the German countryside streams by the window. A dude is listening to some relaxing music. He walks out of train station and into an urban internet lounge. He plugs in his firewire iPod and he sees his girlfirend's picture pop onto his OS X desktop...

...much more exciting than simply a firewire drive! But no way will Apple market this correctly.

sadie · Oct 25, 2001, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by FAerrorTAL:
just use protection.
i think i'll stop opening email because of virii? ok

I have the perfect protection against email viruses - i do all my emailing on the PCs at work.

SpeedRacer · Jun 18, 2002, 10:21 PM

To re-open this topic I'm having some pretty serious issues doing just this.

Installing every varient of OS X form 10.1.2 through 10.1.5 creates some pretty significant problems when running off the iPod. Yes, i can boot, but no certain preferences (networking in particular) do not seem to want to update and leave you will an OS that works only just as it is did on install - blank values for all configs - the "Apply Now" or "Save Configuration" options just don't stick.

I've tried deleting plists, resetting PRAM, reinstalling from scratch - no go. 10.1.5 is the worst of them all - renders the entire OS useless (ie: broken system folder icon at startup). Given the overall impression i've gotten from 10.1.5 update this doesn't surprise me much though.

Regarding the "portable home directory" idea, this actually works great. I've successfully authenticated against an OS X Server box over NetInfo that is set to pull the local home directory from the "Users" directory on the iPod. Works just fine - so long as you're ok with filling up your precious 5GB with preferences, IE caches, downloads, and documents. A bit complicated to setup, but a neat exercise in "hacking." For daily use i think i'd rather a larger and/or faster self-powered FW drive that doesn't eat into my music space though.

For now, any ideas on the X on iPod problems are very much welcomed!

Speed

CharlesS · Jun 18, 2002, 10:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />I think there is a feature where you can't put files on another computer than your own or something like that to detier piracy<hr /></blockquote>Not quite. Here's how it works. The iPod cannot "see" any files that were put onto it in disc mode; only Macs can do that. This includes MP3's, so while you can put MP3's on an iPod in disc mode, it won't be able to play them (you will, however, be able to transfer them between computers normally, as with any other file).

The reverse is also true, though: Macs cannot "see" any files that are put onto the iPod in music mode. So once MP3's go in for playing, you can't get them out. This is why you should keep backups of the files.<hr /></blockquote>I don't have an iPod, but as I understand it, they simply used the hiding folders method that you're such a fan of. So Macs *can* see the files that are put onto the iPod in music mode, you just have to do it by cd'ing in with the Terminal, because the Finder is hiding the folder.

[edit: just realized that your post was written a long time ago. sorry, didn't catch that the first time around.]

[ 06-18-2002, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: CharlesS ]

mitchell_pgh · Jun 18, 2002, 11:34 PM

Could you imagine a Palm like device that can run OS X on it at OK speeds... That�s almost scary.

gattur · Jun 19, 2002, 12:08 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:

The reverse is also true, though: Macs cannot "see" any files that are put onto the iPod in music mode. So once MP3's go in for playing, you can't get them out. This is why you should keep backups of the files.<hr /></blockquote>I had to reformat my drive about a month ago and wanted to avoid ripping all my cd's again. So I used TinkerTool to show the invisible files on the iPod. Unfortunately all of the artist - album folders got eliminated and I am stuck with a mess of files to be reorganized. But, I did get them back on my computer. As far as running the operating system off the iPod, this should be avoided due to excessive heat that could potentially damage the internal components. I believe Apple has commented on this. It is along the same lines as Apple saying not to charge the iPod while it is in a case because the heat isn't able to dissipate as well.

[edited for the hell of it]

[ 06-19-2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: gattur ]

kman42 · Jun 19, 2002, 09:53 AM

A fairly simple modification of the OSX login by Apple would make for a really cool feature. Store your /Home directory on the iPod, plug it into any OSX machine and you could LOGIN as yourself on that machine.

The possiblities are quite neat. Besides easy access at your friend's house, public kiosks would become way more useful. Our school just installed a bunch of iMacs in public places (curiously running os9). I think it would be awesome if you could just plug in and do something useful.

A couple of comments on security. This feature could be turned off by default and simply have a toggle switch in the Login prefs pane (right next to show list of users). Also, if someone has physical access to a machine and has the know-how to screw the system up by logging in with a user that would have limited persmissions, then they could boot into single user mode and screw it up anyway.

kman

Cipher13 · Jun 19, 2002, 10:16 AM

Yes it's possible.

No, don't do it, with the amount of fragmentation OSX causes, and the amount of HD swapping it could conceivably do, it'd tear that little drive to pieces.

Millennium · Jun 19, 2002, 10:29 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by CharlesS:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />I think there is a feature where you can't put files on another computer than your own or something like that to detier piracy<hr /></blockquote>Not quite. Here's how it works. The iPod cannot "see" any files that were put onto it in disc mode; only Macs can do that. This includes MP3's, so while you can put MP3's on an iPod in disc mode, it won't be able to play them (you will, however, be able to transfer them between computers normally, as with any other file).

The reverse is also true, though: Macs cannot "see" any files that are put onto the iPod in music mode. So once MP3's go in for playing, you can't get them out. This is why you should keep backups of the files.<hr /></blockquote>I don't have an iPod, but as I understand it, they simply used the hiding folders method that you're such a fan of. So Macs *can* see the files that are put onto the iPod in music mode, you just have to do it by cd'ing in with the Terminal, because the Finder is hiding the folder.

[edit: just realized that your post was written a long time ago. sorry, didn't catch that the first time around.]<hr /></blockquote>You're correct, of course. I was just talking about how Apple claimed it worked. And you still need extra software (or the Terminal) to see the MP3's which the iPod plays. Not a very effective hiding system, but a hiding system nonetheless.

And technically, Command-~ thus becomes illegal under the DMCA as a circumvention device...

Todd Madson · Jun 19, 2002, 11:57 AM

Remember that if you do this, there's a warning at the Apple site that
the drive isn't meant to be read from/written to constantly like OSX
abuses a drive.

The iPod spins up its drive while loading 32 megs of mp3 data into ram
and then stops spinning while the buffer empties out. Then it starts up
again when it needs to retrieve another 32 megs.

OSX beats a drive senseless with constant read/write with VM so you could
have a pretty much dead iPod in short order. The drive in the iPod has a
mean-time-between-failure rate that's a lot sooner than bigger drives.

calumr · Jun 19, 2002, 02:48 PM

I remember reading somewhere that Apple engineers ran a web server (OSX Server) from an iPod for a few days. Eventually the drive just melted.

What happens if you use "/Volumes/My iPod/myHome" as a home directory and the iPod is not connected? Doesn't that mean that a directory will be created at that path, and when you finally plug in your iPod, it will mount at a different path eg. "/Volumes/My iPod.2/"?

diamondsw · Jun 19, 2002, 06:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rickster:
Yes, you could install OS X onto an iPod, since it is just another FireWire drive (that happens to be able to play MP3s stored on it). It wouldn't be all that useful, though: Last I heard, you couldn't boot OS X from an external FireWire drive. Also, booting OS 9 from FireWire only works on more recent Macs... the Summer 2000 G4s and newer, I think.<hr /></blockquote>Nah, you can boot from FireWire as far back as the Blue & White G3. And OS X boots wonderfully on my Pismo - that way my backup drive has a bootable OS and recovery software on it. For all of the talk of bootable CD's, a firewire drive for recovery is the way to go.

KellyHogan · Jun 19, 2002, 06:45 PM

So if I boot off of the iPod, what about iPod synching with iTunes? I suspect this would result in the most unfixable error or kernal panic.