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Will Apple be the Next Microsoft?
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freudling
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Jul 27, 2008, 04:04 AM
 
Apple is on a tear... their market share has constantly been increasing, and their iPhone and iPod sales have/are taking over the world to the point where Apple is now pretty much ubiquitous. When we factor in their movie/music business, and cloud computing taking away from Microsoft's hegemony, will Apple be the next Microsoft? Will there be justice for Jobs afterall? Is this even something Apple wants? Imagine 1 billion Mac users.

Something to consider... Apple seems to own touch interface technology... from the Newton to the iPhone... if they release a really cool Tablet, it might be the device that "breaks the camel's back" that is MS.
     
Andy8
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Jul 27, 2008, 04:36 AM
 
No.
     
Tiresias
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Jul 27, 2008, 06:47 AM
 
Doooo nooooot waaaaant!
     
MacosNerd
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Jul 27, 2008, 07:23 AM
 
Microsoft got to its position not from innovating but buying, copying and stealing technology. Apple has been innovating and taking chances on products for years. At times that risk taking approach has paid off, i.e., iPod, and at other times its failed - G4 Cube.

Microsoft got its start when they were able to license Dos to IBM, problem was microsoft didn't own, or developed an OS at the time. They then were able to buy (or license I forget) QDos.

Bottom line MS got its start from using other people's technology and Apple created its own technology (for the most part), so to that end, I don't think Apple will ever become the next Microsoft
     
mattyb
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:19 PM
 
IIS, SQL Server, SharePoint, Exchange, what have Apple got that competes with these products? IMHO Apple are a VERY long way from being the next Microsoft.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
IIS, SQL Server, SharePoint, Exchange, what have Apple got that competes with these products? IMHO Apple are a VERY long way from being the next Microsoft.
Apache, nothing, nothing, Mac OS X Server. But how on earth did you get "Matches Microsoft's exact product lineup" from the OP's question? It was about market position, not identical product bullet points.
Chuck
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mattyb
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:38 PM
 
Funny, I read the tile of the thread as : Will Apple be the Next Microsoft?

Market position in what then? Email servers? Collaboration suites ?

I was giving my opinion is all.
     
Zeeb
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Jul 27, 2008, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Apple is on a tear... their market share has constantly been increasing, and their iPhone and iPod sales have/are taking over the world to the point where Apple is now pretty much ubiquitous. When we factor in their movie/music business, and cloud computing taking away from Microsoft's hegemony, will Apple be the next Microsoft? Will there be justice for Jobs afterall? Is this even something Apple wants? Imagine 1 billion Mac users.

Something to consider... Apple seems to own touch interface technology... from the Newton to the iPhone... if they release a really cool Tablet, it might be the device that "breaks the camel's back" that is MS.
"Justice" for Jobs? What are you talking about? Windows became the dominant operating system years ago because of mistakes Jobs made then--he admits that. Apple is already exhibiting behaviors previously associated with Microsoft with an aggressive team of lawyers that sues anything that moves.

Apple is not any more noble than any company out there. I'll buy there products as long as they are useful and fun.
     
besson3c
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Jul 27, 2008, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
IIS, SQL Server, SharePoint, Exchange, what have Apple got that competes with these products? IMHO Apple are a VERY long way from being the next Microsoft.
Apache, MySQL/PostgreSQL (although these aren't Apple technologies), nothing, nothing... To answer the original question, Apple is nowhere near being the next Microsoft for the very same answer to this question: they have no real business/enterprise software offerings. They can continue do well capturing the home market, but MS's success has been a combination of its business/home market, I think.
( Last edited by besson3c; Jul 27, 2008 at 07:14 PM. )
     
Monique
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:42 PM
 
Just much better; once Jobs said to Gates : "We make better stuff" Gates answered that it does not matter.

Many years later, Microsoft is a non creative house and Apple is way way far ahead. So I guess making better stuff matters a great deal.
     
sek929
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:45 PM
 
I certainly hope not. I don't want every asshole I know using Macs...who will I brag to then?
     
Chuckit
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
"Justice" for Jobs? What are you talking about? Windows became the dominant operating system years ago because of mistakes Jobs made then--he admits that.
Jobs was a decade gone from Apple when Windows took over the world.
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Monique
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Jul 28, 2008, 01:00 PM
 
But, now he is back and is taking over the world of artists, people with good taste. The rest of them do not have any taste at all.
     
Laminar
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Jul 29, 2008, 12:24 AM
 
They probably hate women and kick puppies too.
     
Guy Stone
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Jul 29, 2008, 01:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Jobs was a decade gone from Apple when Windows took over the world.
This is true.

Way back, when both Jobs and Gates were moving out there garages, ok only Jobs was in a garage, but anyways Gates went to Jobs and said that Apple's OS was the bee's knees and would he like to collaborate on this and take over the world. Jobs being the prick he was, said screw off geekster and that was that.

Basically that's the way it went.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jul 29, 2008, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
"Justice" for Jobs? What are you talking about? Windows became the dominant operating system years ago because of mistakes Jobs made then--he admits that.
Don't quite agree. Jobs was ousted from Apple before Apple and MS really went head-to-head, so we will never know what would have happened between the two with Jobs at the helm. Moreover, Apple lost their case against MS for rights to the GUI... today they most probably would have won and Apple would be incredibly rich, as MS would have to pay for the license to use a GUI for all of their software... well, at least their monopolistic OS.

And Justice really refers to the fact that MS stole from Apple and became successful. If only Jobs had allowed companies to license his NextStep OS...
     
freudling  (op)
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Jul 29, 2008, 02:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Apache, MySQL/PostgreSQL (although these aren't Apple technologies), nothing, nothing... To answer the original question, Apple is nowhere near being the next Microsoft for the very same answer to this question: they have no real business/enterprise software offerings. They can continue do well capturing the home market, but MS's success has been a combination of its business/home market, I think.
besson3c:

The interesting thing is, the home market is the future. MS went the enterprise path and was/is successful... but things are changing: we are now fully in the information age. The individual can do so much more than he ever could during the pre-internet days, and it is taking more and more power away from big business, where the balance shifts to the individual.

Just like international relations are shifting to a focus on human security (related to a concern for the security and well being of the individual, rather than a concern strictly for macroscopic globes of society called countries), so to is business/markets revolving around the individual more and more.

I am a good example. I run my entire business from home. I have servers, a fiber optic internet connection, a 48" LCD with a mac mini attached and remote. I can voice operate my system in my living room, Skype my contacts and anyone else in the world from Skype's front row api, all sitting in my living room in front of a large screen. I do business with large companies and set up and implement major projects, some of it supported by free, open source software.

The point is, all of this tech would have been strictly reserved for big business even 10 years ago, but now all of it is available to the individual. I pay a mere 37 bucks per month for my Fiber Optic connection, my Server was about $1000... it does not take much.

And it is the individual that Apple is targeting and they are going to win this time.
     
Maflynn
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Jul 29, 2008, 07:58 AM
 
So you're saying that you expect to see more server technology make it into the household In some form I suppose that will happen but not to the extent that we'll see an outright server sitting in someone's office.

Microsoft thought it could make money on that concept and it flopped, their home server edition of windows is a major failure.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jul 29, 2008, 10:38 AM
 
Maflynn:

You are taking a small piece of what I am saying and focusing on it instead of looking at the gist of what I am saying: high tech that would normally only be reserved for business is now available to the individual. Of course, I am not just talking servers. People are more and more existing with/through the Internet, and they have the technology to experience it in ways they have not before. One way is interacting with other people and other businesses. Most everything can be done online now, and by the individual. This is something that was not the case at the turn of this past century. Individuals are thus much more informed, and much more empowered.

People are 'finally' embracing high tech: it has taken a while though. I think the iPhone has really been the impetus to high tech acceptance on behalf of the sheeple, as well as the AppleTV. Living room computing is coming for sure, for example. Many people have Internet businesses and work from home or small offices. Under 10 people companies are taking on big business (i.e. electric car industry). And since the individual is empowered, it only makes sense to market to them, and not the enterprise (we look at cloud computing and how Google is owning that).

I think Steve saw all this coming way back, even in the beginning before Internet. I also think Steve and his colleagues knew that there would be an Internet at some point, and they were very aware of its implications. So the Internet, the root cause of the information age, has empowered people, changed the business-person balance of power, and has engendered a high tech society. Apple has been right all along to market to consumers (it is the biggest market by far). I don't think MS ever saw this coming properly, and so what if their home server edition failed, their Zune failed too. As Steve would say, MS could not conceive of and implement the appropriate hardware and software for the individual: it is not their expertise. This should be a glaring foreshadow of things to come.
( Last edited by freudling; Jul 29, 2008 at 10:46 AM. )
     
besson3c
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Jul 29, 2008, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
besson3c:

The interesting thing is, the home market is the future. MS went the enterprise path and was/is successful... but things are changing: we are now fully in the information age. The individual can do so much more than he ever could during the pre-internet days, and it is taking more and more power away from big business, where the balance shifts to the individual.

Just like international relations are shifting to a focus on human security (related to a concern for the security and well being of the individual, rather than a concern strictly for macroscopic globes of society called countries), so to is business/markets revolving around the individual more and more.

I am a good example. I run my entire business from home. I have servers, a fiber optic internet connection, a 48" LCD with a mac mini attached and remote. I can voice operate my system in my living room, Skype my contacts and anyone else in the world from Skype's front row api, all sitting in my living room in front of a large screen. I do business with large companies and set up and implement major projects, some of it supported by free, open source software.

The point is, all of this tech would have been strictly reserved for big business even 10 years ago, but now all of it is available to the individual. I pay a mere 37 bucks per month for my Fiber Optic connection, my Server was about $1000... it does not take much.

And it is the individual that Apple is targeting and they are going to win this time.

Very interesting post!

I'm looking to work from home too full-time, it is interesting that you see this growing... Now if only there were reasonable health insurance packages for people like us

Microsoft does seem to be more and more irrelevant, but one thing that I have learned as that these sorts of changes take a long time. It could be that Apple develops an Exchange killer and really beefs up their business offerings, or they could thrive without business offerings like you've said. It will definitely be interesting to see what will happen, I'm open to the idea of what I can't fathom now becoming a reality at some point in the future
     
Person Man
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Jul 29, 2008, 11:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
...I think the iPhone has really been the impetus to high tech acceptance on behalf of the sheeple...
As soon as you said "sheeple," you lost all credibility.
     
finboy
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Jul 29, 2008, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Microsoft got to its position not from innovating but buying, copying and stealing technology. Apple has been innovating and taking chances on products for years.
I agree with both statements, but you need to look at the early history of Apple -- Microsoft learned how to buy, copy and steal from Jobs et al. Microsoft has also been taking chances on products for years.

Can Apple replace Microsoft? Given the Vista backlash, who knows? Certainly they've got the right price points now. They'll never be able to replace Dell machines in WalMart, not with their cost structure. But Apple could push market share higher if they wanted to, mainly by opening their OS for install on other machines/processors. I'm sure there are some legal reasons to NOT do this or it would have already happened. That would kill MS slowly over the next 10 years -- as long as Apple didn't drop the ball (again, as they did in the 80s).
     
Person Man
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Jul 29, 2008, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
But Apple could push market share higher if they wanted to, mainly by opening their OS for install on other machines/processors. I'm sure there are some legal reasons to NOT do this or it would have already happened.
There are no legal reasons for not doing it. Apple has not done that because they are a hardware company first and foremost. About 11 years ago or so, Apple licensed their operating system to clones and was nearly driven out of business because of it.

Apple will not license their OS to run on other hardware unless they become primarily a software company, which doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.

And Apple is doing a pretty good job of pushing their marketshare higher as it is.
     
brugesman
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Jul 29, 2008, 03:08 PM
 
It's gonna take a while if it does happen. Apple's share of the overall market, especially when you consider the fact that Microsoft rules the business world, is tiny.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jul 29, 2008, 10:38 PM
 
Person Man:

You lost all credibility when you said, "you lost all credibility".
     
Laminar
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Jul 30, 2008, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
There are no legal reasons for not doing it. Apple has not done that because they are a hardware company first and foremost. About 11 years ago or so, Apple licensed their operating system to clones and was nearly driven out of business because of it.
Not to mention that their "It just works" mantra wouldn't be any good if Apple didn't strictly control exactly what hardware runs their software.
     
analogika
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Jul 30, 2008, 05:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by brugesman View Post
It's gonna take a while if it does happen. Apple's share of the overall market, especially when you consider the fact that Microsoft rules the business world, is tiny.
They're rolling up the musicians' market, that's for sure.
     
   
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