[Dark Helmet]

I don't get it, is it because they assume most people are right handed? Even then how does 1 inch to the left make things better?

[rickey939]

So it's the PC makers who "Think different" after-all...damn, I've been fooled!

[Atheist]

If you notice, the keypad is centered directly under the space bar. PC keyboards typically have additional keys to the right of the enter key: insert, delete, home, end, pg up, pg dn.

Apple, in it's never ending quest for aesthetic perfection insists on a perfectly symmetrical keyboard, thus the trackpad is in the exact center of the laptop.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Apple, in it's never ending quest for aesthetic perfection insists on a perfectly symmetrical keyboard, thus the trackpad is in the exact center of the laptop.

Good, just the way I like it.

[exca1ibur]

They are centering it based on the position of the space bar. I prefer the center to the MACHINE, myself.

[imitchellg5]

I don't know, but I hate it. My HP's is off center, and it frustrates me. Makes an ugly piece of crap even uglier and crappier.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Good, just the way I like it.

And me as well. I think my 17" PowerBook is a thing of beauty.

Although I must confess I grow tired of having to press fn+up/dn to page up/down.

What price beauty?

[The Godfather]

The wife bought this VERY nice laptop last week. The trackpad was centered.

Averatec 2300. dual 1.6GHz/1GB/100GB/nVidia dedicated graphics/4 pounds light.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

The wife bought this VERY nice laptop last week. The trackpad was centered.

Averatec 2300. dual 1.6GHz/1GB/100GB/nVidia dedicated graphics/4 pounds light.

Wow, 11 whole components. Nice!

[chabig]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Wow, 11 whole components. Nice!

Plus, it no doubt came with a lot of nice stickers on it!

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Plus, it no doubt came with a lot of nice stickers on it!

Umm, please refer to those as "pieces of flair"...

[Tuoder]

I have always hought that those Averatecs were iBook ripoffs in appearance.

[Wiskedjak]

From an ergonomics perspective, it makes more sense to have the trackpad centered on the space bar. Apple's keyboard is shifted to the left as well, though not as much because Apple has gotten rid of the dedicated 'page up', 'page down', 'home', and 'end' keys.

For me, the question isn't as much why do the PC laptops sacrifice aesthetics for ergonomics, but why does Apple sacrifice the usability of having dedicated 'page up', 'page down', 'home', and 'end' keys in favor of aesthetics?

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

From an ergonomics perspective, it makes more sense to have the trackpad centered on the space bar. Apple's keyboard is shifted to the left as well, though not as much because Apple has gotten rid of the dedicated 'page up', 'page down', 'home', and 'end' keys.

For me, the question isn't as much why do the PC laptops sacrifice aesthetics for ergonomics, but why does Apple sacrifice the usability of having dedicated 'page up', 'page down', 'home', and 'end' keys in favor of aesthetics?

It's because Macs are mostly sold to people who don't care about those things. You and I, on the other hand, grumble upon the necessity of pushing Fn for basic things; our grandpas would never figure it out.

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Wow, 11 whole components. Nice!

More like pointing out to the user where various function keys/indicators are.

Grow up.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Tuoder 

I have always hought that those Averatecs were iBook ripoffs in appearance.

Compared to my former 12" iBook, the Averatec reminded me of its ideal size, but with a more industrial look.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

From an ergonomics perspective, it makes more sense to have the trackpad centered on the space bar. Apple's keyboard is shifted to the left as well, though not as much because Apple has gotten rid of the dedicated 'page up', 'page down', 'home', and 'end' keys.

Good point. I guess that's why the trackpad is so huge... cuz it's not really centered under the spacebar.

[Gamoe]

I prefer the machine centered trackpad myself, though I do wish we had two-button trackpads.

[Salty]

My sister's Avratech was a POS. That said who the heck needs dedicated page up and down buttons? Alt up and down works fine, it's not as if both of your hands aren't already there.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

The wife bought this VERY nice laptop last week. The trackpad was centered.

Averatec 2300. dual 1.6GHz/1GB/100GB/nVidia dedicated graphics/4 pounds light.

Ya that is wicked, I personally can't use a laptop unless there is a separate LED's each in a separate colour that flashes for hard drive access, WIfi, bluetooth, fan, battery level and CPU usage.

All that looking at the screen doesn't tell me if things are working the way the should.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

The wife bought this VERY nice laptop last week. The trackpad was centered.

Averatec 2300. dual 1.6GHz/1GB/100GB/nVidia dedicated graphics/4 pounds light.

1. Clear View™ Sticker
2. Wi-Fi Internet AOL 2-Months Free! Sticker
3. New "I-Zone" Sticker with Web Access™
4. Made for WIndows XP Sticker
5. Intel Inside™ Sticker
6. EZ Click™ Sticker
7. Kensington Secure-Lock™ 250 sticker
8. Averatec 2300 Sticker with features.
9. FunkyPhonics™ X-Treme! Stereo sticker (L)
10. FunkyPhonics™ X-Treme! Stereo sticker (R)
11. Microsoft Go!™ Wireless Remote sticker

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ya that is wicked, I personally can't use a laptop unless there is a separate LED's each in a separate colour that flashes for hard drive access, WIfi, bluetooth, fan, battery level and CPU usage.

All that looking at the screen doesn't tell me if things are working the way the should.

Where are all these LED's of which you speak?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Where are all these LED's of which you speak?

I wasn't talking about your PC in perticular but 90% of the ones out there. Nice to see at least one company can resist.

Although I'm surprised they didn't include numbers pointing to "Three prong wall outlet" and each letter on the keyboard.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I wasn't talking about your PC in perticular but 90% of the ones out there. Nice to see at least one company can resist.

Although I'm surprised they didn't include numbers pointing to "Three prong wall outlet" and each letter on the keyboard.

Yes, but this is a photo of the schematic laptop above. The one you were referring to when you said "I personally can't use a laptop unless there is a separate LED's each in a separate colour that flashes for hard drive access, WIfi, bluetooth, fan, battery level and CPU usage."

You are aware that the PC laptop company generally don't use the same design specs (with some exceptions, of course). But, design-wise, it isn't Apple vs. PC laptops; it's Apple vs. Dell vs. HP vs. Fujitsu vs. Sony vs. Lenovo vs. etc. Some of them make quite ugly products, while others make some which rival Apple in aesthetics.

[JoshuaZ]

I know people who keep the stickers on... because they may have important information they'll need later.

"So, you'll need to know that you have 2 free months of AOL, even though you've had this thing for a year and live in Japan?"

"Yes."

[Mediaman_12]

This is going way off but. It the first Post with the illustration you said

The wife bought this VERY nice laptop last week. The trackpad was centred.

but on the PHOTO later posted to point out the lack of LED's, the trackpad is actually located off to the right. are these two different laptops, or was the illustration inaccurate?

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

This is going way off but. It the first Post with the illustration you said but on the PHOTO later posted to point out the lack of LED's, the trackpad is actually located off to the right. are these two different laptops, or was the illustration inaccurate?

After careful examination of the laptop, the trackpad is 0.5" off-center, to the left, invisible to the careless eye. However, no discomfort comes out of this cock-eyed-ness.

There's a row of LEDs on arrow #4, but they are discreetly subdued by translucent plastic with icons representing power, battery, hard disk, wireless, caps lock and num lock.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

And me as well. I think my 17" PowerBook is a thing of beauty.

Although I must confess I grow tired of having to press fn+up/dn to page up/down.

What price beauty?

While browsing the web, space and shift-space do a nice job.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Where are all these LED's of which you speak?

Yeah, replacing them with pastel colored audio input/outputs make it so....functional!

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

While browsing the web, space and shift-space do a nice job.

Nice tip. I'll have to use that one from now on as well.

[Railroader]

I wish my space bar was lined up better on my MacBook with the trackpad.

I don't need that "enter" button do I? Do any of you use it?

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I wish my space bar was lined up better on my MacBook with the trackpad.

I don't need that "enter" button do I? Do any of you use it?

I've often wondered about that myself. I don't recall ever using the enter key on my PowerBook.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

You are aware that the PC laptop company generally don't use the same design specs (with some exceptions, of course). But, design-wise, it isn't Apple vs. PC laptops; it's Apple vs. Dell vs. HP vs. Fujitsu vs. Sony vs. Lenovo vs. etc. Some of them make quite ugly products, while others make some which rival Apple in aesthetics.

No really? I thought there was one PC template God that just sold a standard design to everyone but Apple.

Say what you will but there is only:

Apple = Excellent Design
Some PC's = Copy of Apples designs but still bla
Every other PC = Total ass

[chabig]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

I know people who keep the stickers on... because they may have important information they'll need later.

PC User: "I'm afraid to install Vista on this machine because it was made for XP."

[The Godfather]

There are many PC laptops that are well designed, which is a miracle since they just strive to fit all keys and lights on a reduced area. There are, however, some designs which are just vile, like those new laptops with round trackpads and music control buttons on the side.

[PurpleGiant]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I don't need that "enter" button do I? Do any of you use it?

Sure do. Some apps I use distinguish between return (carriage return for text box) and enter (OK).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

There are many PC laptops that are well designed, which is a miracle since they just strive to fit all keys and lights on a reduced area.

Show me some that don't copy design traits from the Mac that came out 6 months before it.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I don't need that "enter" button do I? Do any of you use it?

Let‘s say I have my left hand on the keyboard and my right hand on the trackpad. I hit Command+S, and the sheet comes out asking me if I really want to save. At this point, assuming I do want to save, it’s much faster to move my right hand to the Enter key than to select Save any other way.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by rickey939 

Umm, please refer to those as "pieces of flair"...

That's fantastic.

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

More like pointing out to the user where various function keys/indicators are.

Grow up.

Someone get this man a sense of humor, stat!

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Show me some that don't copy design traits from the Mac that came out 6 months before it.

You first have to agree that laptop designs generally copy the last generation of their own brand, and a small set of features is new every year. There are some feature changes that (a) are completely different from the features of an iBook/PowerBook, (b) some Mac features that are never copied by anyone else, (c) some Mac features that were found on PCs first, and (d) some technological developments that were included in Macs first.

Examples
(a.1) Jog wheel
(a.2) Fingerprint reader
(a.3) SD flash reader
(b.1) Magsafe
(b.2) White. After many years, no PC laptops are made white.
(b.3) Magnetic latch
(c.1) Camera integrated on LCD panel
(c.2) LED charge scale integrated on battery. Wrongly lauded as a Mac first by Mac fanboys.
(c.3) Sudden Motion Sensor, known also as Active Protection System, found in 1993 Thinkpads.
(d.1) Integrated Airport.
(d.2) Removal of legacy components (3.5" floppy, serial)

The copying goes both ways, and not all features are copied.

[Dark Helmet]

I am not talking about included technologies, I am talking of DESIGNS.

[The Godfather]

In that case, I have no clue. But the ball is in your side now. Show me some specific examples of the sweeping generalization that was implied by your question:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Show me some that don't copy design traits from the Mac that came out 6 months before it.

By the way, the Apple.com website suggests that "Design" is mostly related to the features tangible on the laptop case
Apple - MacBook Pro - Design

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by The Godfather 

In that case, I have no clue. But the ball is in your side now. Show me some specific examples of the sweeping generalization that was implied by your question:

Actually it is your job to prove me wrong. Show me PC designs that look good and came out before a Mac that looks remarkably like it.

[The Godfather]

No way dude. I spent 10 minutes trying to satisfy your request. Your turn now.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Actually it is your job to prove me wrong. Show me PC designs that look good and came out before a Mac that looks remarkably like it.

(note: no off-centre trackpad )



I've always liked these two designs. Though, I suppose you could still say they copied Apple; after all, they are rectangular, similar colour to the original PowerBooks, use LCD displays, keyboards, and batteries ...

[- - e r i k - -]

I hate that ugly charcoal color.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

(note: no off-centre trackpad )

Why is the tracknipple on this laptop off center to the left?

-t

[davesimondotcom]

SWG - it's pretty simple, they centered the trackpad between the left side of the computer and the "intel inside" sticker...

[ghporter]

I've been using PC laptops for almost 10 years, and I never noticed that the trackpads on them were offcenter by any appreciable amount. This may be because the trackpads have always been centered on the spacebar, so they've been centered ON WHERE MY HANDS ARE.

[Doofy]

Why are trackpads on PC laptops usually off centre to the left?

Well duh. How are you supposed to correctly operate the Internet with your right hand?