[Lebodde]

I have an OS9 app that I need to install on my new iMac 1Ghz. But when I try to run it I get the following message:

"That application or control panel is not supported by classic."

Now, the app runs just fine on my OS9 machine but the newer one cannot be started in OS9 so I am stuck.

Any ideas on what would cause my new machine to refuse to run an OS9 app? (I am running 10.2.5 if that makes a difference.)

Thanks very much for nay help.

P.S. I did a search for this but could not find anything. If there is another thread on it, don't hesitate to redirect me. Thank you.

[OptimusG4]

What application?

[andretan]

Does trying to boot directly to OS 9 work?

[gorickey]

Originally posted by andretan:
Does trying to boot directly to OS 9 work?

He said he cannot do that.

[jwblase]

some applications (such as TechTool and other disk utilities) cannot be launched from within classic. AFAIK, Apple has a little database in there somewhere with a list of classic applications that would interfere with classic in some way shape or form if launched. If that app is launched, the message comes up.

I'm guessing you're launching one of these restricted apps, so the message shows.

JB

[normyzo]

Some of it is based upon system calls that the Application will make. When it links to system libraries on launch, the system can (IIRC) intercept what symbols the application needs in those system libraries, since it has to do the binding anyway. Well, if the app needs certain symbols/routines that aren't compatible with Classic (ie low-level hardware direct access stuff, older deprecated routines, whatnot) it can throw up the alert. Remeber the Norton issues around system 9?

Dan

[Orion27]

I have the same problem with a design application I use. It will not open in Classic within OSX. It will only open on a Mac booted
in Classic. This program cost several thousand
dollars. I made the assumption when I purchased my new mac it would run in Classic
within X. Wrong! I wish there was a work around so I could take advantage of my new
20" Cinema.

[normyzo]

With that $$$ application, perhaps it has a hardware key? These were always problematic, and might be causing the problem. What app is it? I can't think of that many apps that actually don't work in classic (besides the obvious ones).

Dan

[Orion27]

It does have a hardware key called a "security dongle". it's required to be plugged into the old apple mouse and keyboard ports, but a conversion dohickey allowed me to port the
dongle to usb. Is there a work around for this?
The program is Mac specific and called "Sailmaker" by Sails Science out of New Zealand. They have not ported to OSX as yet
and seemed unable to help. Perhaps I should
give them another call.

[normyzo]

The dongle might be it. About the best you might be able to do is scrounge up a Blue & White G3 or a Beige G3 (they have ADB mouse & keyboard ports) and try it there with OS X on that machine, since that would tell you whether OS X was in fact the problem, or on the other hand whether its the ADB->USB conversion thing you have between the dongle and the computer. It could be either OS X's Classic environment, the conversion adapter, or both. Or none of the above, but I'd start here

Dan

[Nai no Kami]

Did the dongle show up in the Apple System Profiler when you booted in OS 9?. If the dongle was listed as a kind of device, checking its appearance in OS X might give you a clue if it is that hardware piece or not. Besides: Does the software make use of proprietary extensions or control panels?. If so, that may be another source of conflict.
i would start to mentally check all the things that in Classic are really handled by OS X (like OpenGL, Quicktime, USB devices, for example); some are pretty easy to discard (like Open GL), but some may put you behind the scent of the conflict.

[Orion27]

There are no proprietary extensions or control panels. I'll connect the dongle and boot into nine then check system profiler in X.
What can I deduce if I see the presense of the dongle or not?

[Nai no Kami]

Originally posted by Orion27:
There are no proprietary extensions or control panels. I'll connect the dongle and boot into nine then check system profiler in X.
What can I deduce if I see the presense of the dongle or not?

if the dongle is recognized in OS 9, you should expect it to be shown on OS X. So, if it doesn't appear in OS X, you may conclude that the dongle is conflicting somehow. Even if the dongle is not recognized by the system profiler in the latter case, that should not imply that the dongle is regarded at "absent" by the OS.

[normyzo]

The _other_ thing you can do, while you're at it, is try Apple System Profiler under Classic in X (if that works, not sure). If the dongle is not seen under ASP under Classic, then it probably will not work under X at all, unless they release some updates.

Dan

[normyzo]

If none of these show it, we can use some of the tools from the Apple Developer Tools that look at the IOKit device registry directly to see if the dongle is actually found or not on the USB bus through the adapter. The application may expect to find it on the ADB port, not through a USB adapter. The adapter can probably make mice and keyboards look like USB devices, and also the adapter, but if the application in question is looking for an ADB device only, it won't find the converted USB device that corresponds to the dongle seen through adapter.

Dan

[Orion27]

The adapter worked fine on my earlier usb Mac. Obviously the program looks for the dongle on start up. The program is not seeing the dongle in Classic within X. I'm at work in a few in an hour and I will see if Profiler sees the dongle.

[Orion27]

O.K Apple Profiler sees the iMate the ADB to
USB converter. Program will not open in OS9
within X. What are we looking for now? I would
pay a small fee for a work around.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Orion27:
I have the same problem with a design application I use. It will not open in Classic within OSX. It will only open on a Mac booted
in Classic. This program cost several thousand
dollars. I made the assumption when I purchased my new mac it would run in Classic
within X. Wrong! I wish there was a work around so I could take advantage of my new
20" Cinema.

BTW, machines don't "boot into Classic" - Classic is an App not an OS - machines boot into OS 9.

If the application says that it is incompatible with Classic on launch then the dongle is not the issue - if the app worked but the dongle didn't you would be getting a license rejection instead of OS incompatibility. There is likely no workaround for this - Apple quarantined the API's for good reason.

For what you are doing you should stick with the OS and hardware that you bought with the $$$ app or else upgrade the app to work on the new hardware/OS.

That sounds tough but that is the way the world works. Everyone who owns Photoshop (or just about any overpriced Adobe products), Office, etc, has had to upgrade to get them to work properly (sometimes at all) in OS X.

Our office purchased WebSphere for 40K and when Windows 2000 came out we had to purchase an upgrade license (and expend significant development to upgrade) in order to deploy on the new platform.

[Orion27]

Correction noted. Thanks for taking the time.

[Nai no Kami]

Originally posted by Orion27:
O.K Apple Profiler sees the iMate the ADB to
USB converter. Program will not open in OS9
within X. What are we looking for now? I would
pay a small fee for a work around.

OK. Maybe lies within the software and is not related to the dongle. Trying to launch the program in Classic with and without the dongle yields the same results?. If so, it is likely that the dongle (and its interaction with the OS, or the lack thereof)is not the problem.
If it is true that there is a "list" somewhere with the Classic-incompatible programs, you could try to edit it (with unpredictable results, of course). AFAIK, I am not aware of the existence of such list.

[Orion27]

There is no discernable difference as how the
program tries to open with or without the
dongle. The software must be looking for the
presence of the dongle but is not seeing it even though profiler in X sees the iMate. Perhaps X is not interacting with the dongle. I know absolutely nothing about this.

[deTaNg]

I believe I have the same situation that you have. I have an imate to connect the ADB Serial Dongle to the USB port on my PM machine. The dongle is required to run the software on for the machine. ($200K) The software (Celsis) is designed to run in Max OS 9.

I've noticed when things run fine in 9 with the imate/dongle, you switch over to OS X it doesn't register. I haven't had much time to play around with it since the drivers for the Solaris, UltraSun Rip Server doesn't accept OS X (not do I know if it ever will) but there might be a work around. Try going to Griffin's website (maker of imate) and downloading the newest OS X AND the OS 9 drivers. The OS 9 drivers were specifically noted to make the imate work under OS X with 9.

Griffin Imate Mac OS 9 Driver

and here's the direct link for the OS X Driver




Good luck and post if it works out or not. I'll come back and read up. =)Griffin Imate Mac OS X Driver

[Orion27]

Thanks for the tip. This is what happened. I downloaded the driver. It installed fine, an extension, control panel and preference file.
I restarted in Classic but the extension did not load (red cross through it.) I restarted in X, no
problem. Tried to launch Classic and it wouldn't open. Force quit and tried again. Still would not open. Force quit and retarted X. X stalled in shutdown prior to restart. Had to push the power button to sut down. Restarted and removed the extension, control and preference files from Classic. Ran utilities and am fine now. I'm going to call Griifin as they ask and see if we can make this work. Did it work for you? Remember, my machine does not boot in OS9, but the PDF says this driver
should work for Classic within X.

[Nai no Kami]

Originally posted by Orion27:
Thanks for the tip. This is what happened. I downloaded the driver. It installed fine, an extension, control panel and preference file.
I restarted in Classic but the extension did not load (red cross through it.) I restarted in X, no
problem. Tried to launch Classic and it wouldn't open. Force quit and tried again. Still would not open. Force quit and retarted X. X stalled in shutdown prior to restart. Had to push the power button to sut down. Restarted and removed the extension, control and preference files from Classic. Ran utilities and am fine now. I'm going to call Griifin as they ask and see if we can make this work. Did it work for you? Remember, my machine does not boot in OS9, but the PDF says this driver
should work for Classic within X.

Reading this post about Griffin makes me think one thing:
***this reasoning is valid as long as Griffin is the manufacturer of the adapter but not the dongle***
I really believe that if you have the adapter clearly identified in the Apple System Profiler within X, you should have no problem with that. Maybe you should try to connect any ADB device to the adapter and see if it works. If it does, you should discard the adapter from you black list.
Anyway, what I was trying to say in my last posts was the following:
If it just were the dongle, and OS X' Classic Environment being unable to identify it, your program should start, but appeared as unregistered or something like that (just as deTaNg noticed).
Given that you say the program does not even start and you receive an alert from Classic (not from the software), I am inclined to think that the dongle and the adapter are not players in this game. That's why I asked if there were extensions and control panels (but you told me they weren't).
Please: If I misunderstood some of your explanations and therefore some of my assumptions in what I wrote are wrong, tell me so; in order to keep looking for a solution.

[Angus_D]

Am I the only one who thinks this might not be related to the dongle at all? Certain os 9 apps which do things like accessing the hardware at a low level are not supported in classic. What does the vendor say?

[Orion27]

To Clarify: There are no alerts either from Classic or software prior to not opening. When trying to launch Sailmaker, Classic Starts and both Classic and Sailmaker are present in the
dock. I am still in X finder. If I single click on the Sailmaker icon in the Dock ( the Sailmaker icon has the the black triangle underneath it as if it were loaded and running) it disappears
and I'm still in X Finder. This is without the dongle attached. Another observation: I have noticed even though the iMate is seen in X Profiler, I'm not sure it is properly powered. I seem to remember a blinking start-up light on the iMate which I have not observed when starting in X. I am going to test it on my old machine right now and report my findings. I am a little leary about reinstalling the OS9 drivers again but I will.

[Orion27]

Well. I retested the iMate and dongle on my old iMac. The IMate flashed during startup and Sailmaker opened normally. The iMate does not flash upon startup in X or Classic. The new Griffin drivers from what I understood was supposed to address this.

[Orion27]

Update. the iMate diid flash upon attaching to my PM USB port on the keyboard. I am going to read up on the Griffin drivers before reinstalling.

[Orion27]

After loading the new OSX driver from Griffin
that enables iMate in Classic I can open my program in Classic. Great! I hope it's stable.
Success!! Albeit partial. I can use all my design
tools but my print "panel offset"s button is
dimmed and not functional. I'm not sure what the deal is printing out of classic since I have never had to do it. Another glitch to conquer.
Thanks to all you guys who had something to add to the discussion. I hope I can be as helpfull to someone in need here as y'all have been helpfull to me.

[Nai no Kami]

Originally posted by Orion27:
After loading the new OSX driver from Griffin
that enables iMate in Classic I can open my program in Classic. Great! I hope it's stable.
Success!! Albeit partial. I can use all my design
tools but my print "panel offset"s button is
dimmed and not functional. I'm not sure what the deal is printing out of classic since I have never had to do it. Another glitch to conquer.
Thanks to all you guys who had something to add to the discussion. I hope I can be as helpfull to someone in need here as y'all have been helpfull to me.

Maybe you should fiddle with the printing preferences, if present. And if so, you could transcript here the printing options and settings; we may figure out what is happening. BTW, and now I remember, I never tried to print from Classic...

[Orion27]

I installed Canon printer driver S750_classic_v395. There seems to be a conflict with the printer driver extensions and my program. When I tried open the program with the printer drivers installed it refused to open. I immediately suspected a conflict. I trashed the drivers and restarted X and
Classic and the program opened. Subsequently, I think I have found that logging off and on and starting Classic produces the same issue. Program refuses to open. Restarting X then starting Classic the program opens fine. The printer driver install did require a restart in X. I didn't test the printer in other programs as I was eager to get my design program up and running again. I started to print from AppleWorks but with several alerts I knew there would be some configuring required and I was afraid to lose access to my printer in X. I emailed Griffin and
asked if there were ant known printing or extension conflict issues with the new iMate driver or the Canon driver.