[moep]

Does anyone know if the 45nm Die-shrink for the PS3 is still scheduled to come soon? (that is in <3 months)

Slashdot | Cell Hits 45nm, PS3 Price Drop Likely to Follow

I know that I will buy a PS3 for Bluray at some point down the road, the question is just if I'll buy one now together with GTA4 or if I'll wait some more (and grab GTA4 for the Xbox).

[Hawkeye_a]

Thats kinda nice to hear. If the shrink in die(and heat sinks) would lead to a smaller, cooler, quieter PS3 model i'd wait.

[moep]

Yeah, there were rumors about a "PS Three" popping up already, including mock-ups of what it might look like:


Rumor - Sony to release a slim PSThree this Fall - SlashGear

Guess I'll wait until fall after all.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Seems a bit soon for any smaller version to come out. I don't think it will come till next year.

[Aegis]

The white mock-up looks like somebody stepped on a Wii.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Wow, I didn't realize GT5 released for PS3 a few weeks ago. For Sony's flagship, I'm surprised it got so little fan-fare around here.

[sek929]

huh? Wow, i heard nothing about what is most likely the most important release for PS3 thus far.

[angelmb]

SONY is indeed advertising GT5 here in Europe when TVs broadcast Formula 1 Grand Prix, maybe due to the lost about the exclusivity regarding the FIA F1 license. They also sell it as a pack, anybody surprise. Albeit they are still far far away from ubiquitous Nintendo's marketing machine they are better than Microsoft's.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Wow, I didn't realize GT5 released for PS3 a few weeks ago. For Sony's flagship, I'm surprised it got so little fan-fare around here.

It's Gran Turismo 5 : Prologue

It's basically a beefed up demo that costs 40 bucks. The real game comes out in 2009.

I might have these numbers wrong, but I think it's 5 tracks, 70 cars, no customization and very barebones online.

Not the real game, just a teaser to hold over the fans until the full game.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Wow, weird.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

PS3 software has leading percentage of 'good' games - PS3 Fanboy

[- - e r i k - -]

What an odd argument:

While the software library of the PS3 is rather small, in comparison to the other two, it's more likely that a shopper buying a completely random game from the PS3 shelves will fare better than when shopping for the other consoles. While we have to endure through a bit of shovelware on our system, we feel bad for the uneducated Wii shopper, where "bad" games are seemingly the norm.

Surely what really matters is the size of the software library and exclusive "good" titles. I think this "fanboy" is reaching.

[Hawkeye_a]

Yea no kidding, when the PS2 in its time had a comparable ratio, it was all fine and dandy. double standards...fanboyism's most obvious symptom.

Anyway... whats this...$40 for a demo ? wow

[Hawkeye_a]

The "other" game released this week was Mario Kart for the Wii.... most reviews downplayed the graphical jump over the GCN version, and i must admit i was a LITTLE disappointed as well at first. but 12 player multiplayer probably factored into it somewhere.

To see the visual 'upgrade' over the GCN version, here's a comparison video from Gamespot.. GameSpot Video: Then & Now: Mario Kart Wii

[jokell82]

Report: Only 11% of Wii games score above 80% - Joystiq


tl;dr: The Wii has more crappy games than any other console.

Edit - And of course this was already posted above. Disregard.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I wanna know how many of that 11% are 3rd party titles.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I got Mario Cart that I was really looking forward to. It is a bit meh but still fun.

The main problem is that it feels like Nintendo isn't even trying anymore. They know they can just make an OK game and it will sell like hotcakes (And Nintendo making money is my main concern anyway) so why push the limites or come up with something new?

The game is still fun but it has the same problem that the very first NES version did... horrible AI. Expect to be in 1st for most of the race only to have yourself hit with 3 different brutal weapons 50 feet from the finish line and watch 4 racers rush past you.

As for graphics... yickes. It isn't horrible but looking at Metroid we know although the Wii hardware sucks it can still do better than what Mario cart gave us.

The other bad news is they took out drifting and gimped the battlemode. God knows why.

When I look the value I get for the $50 for this game and the $10 more I spent on GTA IV it really makes me feel that Wii games should be $40 max.

[ort888]

GTA4 isn't really a fair comparison, but I do feel you.

I'm starting to get more and more annoyed with the Wii and what it offers me.

I know Nintendo is raking in the cash right now, but they are really sticking it to the hardcore audience. Right now they are targeting casuals and massive Nintendo fanboys and that's about it. Once you get over the waggle controls (which I did almost immediately) you are left with a Gamecube and a bunch of rehashes of games we've already played.

It's like they aren't even trying anymore. I wonder if it's eventually going to bite them in the ass. The casuals will eventually tire of this thing, which will leave them with just the massive Nintendo fanboys, a bunch of bored casuals who have moved on and a bunch of scorned hardcore gamers.

Although I guess people have been saying this all along and been continually proven wrong, so who knows.

The only game on the Wii that has really blown me away was Mario Galaxy. The rest of the big games are either rehashes of what we have seen before (Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros, Mario Kart) or waggle mini-game fests. (wario ware, Wii Sports, WiiPlay, Wiifit).

I like to see the envelope pushed. At least in the past when Nintendo rehashed a game for the 3rd time in a row, we got a generational leap in graphics. Now we're just getting Cube games with Waggle.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Here's a question: What do you think was the last Nintendo game that pushed the envelope?

[ort888]

Graphically or in general?

Mario Galaxy pushed it. Not an incredible amount, but they really nailed that one. It felt very familiar and yet very fresh at the same time.

Metroid and Wind Waker on the Cube...

And a lot of stuff on the N64, SNES and NES. Back in those games every other game they put out was a huge jump in one way or another.

[jokell82]

I don't think Nintendo EVER pushed the envelope. Maybe with Mario 64, but I can't think of anything else.

They've made some great games, though.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I'm sure I probably missed something else, but I thought Zelda 64 was the closest thing to an open-world game before GTA III.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I'm sure I probably missed something else, but I thought Zelda 64 was the closest thing to an open-world game before GTA III.

GTA 1 and 2? Or do you mean the first one in 3d?

Zelda: OOT was really just an evolution of Zelda. Link to the Past was just as open as Ocarina of Time, just in 2d.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Yeah, I specifically mean 3D.

[jokell82]

According to this article it looks like that title may have gone to Body Harvest on the N64:
Born Free: the History of the Openworld Game Article // None /// Eurogamer

[Dakar the Fourth]

I totally knew someone would bring out something I couldn't remember or never head of.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I don't think Nintendo EVER pushed the envelope. Maybe with Mario 64, but I can't think of anything else.

They've made some great games, though.

Zelda and Metroid were both open world games way before Body Harvest. Well hell, Adventure on the 2600 was open world. So was Pitfall 2.

Nintendo has made some of the most groundbreaking games of all time. You have a very short memory.

Nintendo used to reinvent the entire game every few years. They were the driving force behind video gaming evolution. In the past they really pushed the limits and innovated like no one else. It's sad to see how far they have fallen... or rather, to see them pushing so hard in a direction I have little interest in.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The only game on the Wii that has really blown me away was Mario Galaxy.

Galaxy was fun and cute but I finished it in 2 days and only spend 2 more finding some extra stars but I quickly got sick of it. I have no urge to play it through to find 100% of the stars though as the reward isn't that great not to mention I got a ton of other games I rather tinker around with.

As for Mario cart the graphics and AI are really bumming me out. I can't get over how other than slightly better graphics it feels exactly like the very first mario cart ever made. Where is all this innovation Nintendo is supposed to have? I guess the Wiimote is the only thing that counts for innovation these days... take a gamecube game that never shipped and slap on motion controls and you got all the innovation one needs.

Honestly I am seeing way way more innovation from Sony and MS this generation. Xbox live is top notch (other than the paid membership) and Sony's games like Little Big Planet, loco-roco, echocrome, Flow, and Home are far more revolutionary than the Wiimote in my opinion. And it is the game that are supposed to matter remember?

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I got Mario Cart that I was really looking forward to. It is a bit meh but still fun.

The main problem is that it feels like Nintendo isn't even trying anymore. They know they can just make an OK game and it will sell like hotcakes (And Nintendo making money is my main concern anyway) so why push the limites or come up with something new?

I hear ya. What REALLY sucks is that third party developers see the huge sales that Nintendo software gets and give up without even trying to make decent games. They just say, "Oh, we could make a good game, but why bother? No one will buy it, they'll just buy Nintendo games and nothing else." And then when Nintendo has little or no competition for good games, they get huge sales and perpetuate the cycle.

The only good non-Nintendo games for the Wii are No More Heroes and Zack & Wiki, oh, and I guess MLB Power Pros scored pretty highly too. Okami, RE4, Guitar Hero 3, and Bully are on there too, but they were all originally for other systems,

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The game is still fun but it has the same problem that the very first NES version did... horrible AI. Expect to be in 1st for most of the race only to have yourself hit with 3 different brutal weapons 50 feet from the finish line and watch 4 racers rush past you.

Well, the original was for SNES, and the same mechanic has been at work in all the versions of the game that I've seen. That is, the items are really overpowered and they make it too easy to gain and lose positions. That doesn't really have to do with the AI, it's an item balance issue, but it's still a problem with the game design. However, do keep in mind that the nastiest weapons are only given to the guys at the very back of the pack.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

As for graphics... yickes. It isn't horrible but looking at Metroid we know although the Wii hardware sucks it can still do better than what Mario cart gave us.

It certainly could be better, but the same could be said for pretty much any Wii game (other than Metroid perhaps). It looks quite bad in four-player split screen mode, but if you have three friends over I don't think you'll be paying as much attention to the graphics.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The other bad news is they took out drifting and gimped the battlemode. God knows why.

What are you talking about with the drifting? It's alive and well... you can get blue and orange sparks just like before, or you can set it to automatic for cleaner racing at the expense of not getting any sparks.

I do agree on the Battle mode, though. I HATE HATE HATE what Nintendo did with it. What were they thinking???

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

When I look the value I get for the $50 for this game and the $10 more I spent on GTA IV it really makes me feel that Wii games should be $40 max.

They're such completely different games it's hard to compare. I almost never play my Wii in single player. It's just too boring. The single player games are tedious rehashes of old series (yes, even Metroid and Zelda are boring to me, because they're just Metroid and Zelda games). The multiplayer games are the only ones that are worthwhile, and Mario Kart is certainly a lot of fun for that. But I wouldn't get it for single player.

Oh, and I don't mean to be too harshly critical of your post, I was just confused on a couple points and though I'd respond.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Zelda and Metroid were both open world games way before Body Harvest. Well hell, Adventure on the 2600 was open world. So was Pitfall 2.

Nintendo has made some of the most groundbreaking games of all time. You have a very short memory.

Nintendo used to reinvent the entire game every few years. They were the driving force behind video gaming evolution. In the past they really pushed the limits and innovated like no one else. It's sad to see how far they have fallen... or rather, to see them pushing so hard in a direction I have little interest in.

See, in my opinion Nintendo games have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The mario and zelda games, while definitely some of the best of the respective genres, never really pushed any boundaries. They're kind of like Apple - they take existing ideas and perfect them.

Their hardware was innovative, I agree. But what about Mario 64 was innovative? It wasn't the first 3d platformer, but it was definitely one of the best. Maybe I'm just forgetting their revolutionary games, though - what would you say was their pinnacle of "pushing the envelope"?

[Chuckit]

Inventing a new genre is not the only kind of innovation. Maybe there's some game I've forgotten (and/or never played) that preceded it, but as far as I know, Mario 64 was the first 3D platformer to really make use of a 3D world. For instance, two superficially similar games around the same time were Tomb Raider and Crash Bandicoot — but both of those were basically 2D platformers with 3D graphics.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Inventing a new genre is not the only kind of innovation. Maybe there's some game I've forgotten (and/or never played) that preceded it, but as far as I know, Mario 64 was the first 3D platformer to really make use of a 3D world. For instance, two superficially similar games around the same time were Tomb Raider and Crash Bandicoot — but both of those were basically 2D platformers with 3D graphics.

How was Tomb Raider any less 3D than Mario 64???

[Eug]

MS: 360 GTA IV Outselling PS3 Version 2-to-1 : Next Generation - Interactive Entertainment Today, Video Game and Industry News - Home of Edge Online

"What we've heard anecdotally from our retail partners is that the Xbox 360 version of the game is outselling the PS3 version by a margin of two-to-one," said Aaron Greenberg, director of product management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live during an interview Thursday.

"That mirrors what we saw with pre-orders, but it continues to hold true at retail, at least for the first couple of days. It's a great sign."

But a SCEA rep questioned Microsoft's findings, saying that Microsoft's two-to-one ratio "doesn't line up" with what Sony has been hearing from its retailers. The rep declined to say exactly what Sony has been hearing from its retail partners until more concrete data can be compiled.

Rockstar's GTA IV launched on Tuesday.

In day-one sales in the UK, the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV outsold the PS3 version: 335,000 versus 274,000, respectively, according to Chart Track.

One of the big questions hovering around the release of GTA IV is just how much of an impact the game will have on sales of Xbox 360 and PS3.

SCEA released a statement Thursday saying that GTA IV drove a boost in PS3 sales on the game's launch day, although the company has yet to release hard figures.

Microsoft also has yet to release post-GTA IV hardware sales figures, but Greenberg said, "We've heard from our retailers that the consoles saw strong lifts during the week. We typically wait for [research firm] NPD to give us a better read on that.

"But we expect that GTA IV is definitely driving a lot of people to Xbox 360. ... The fact that we know that we're outselling [the PS3 version] two-to-one on the game is a pretty good sign that a lot of those games are going with a new console out the door."

Asked if April NPD results would definitely show a GTA IV-driven Xbox 360 hardware boost, Greenberg said, "I think we'll have solid performance in April, but I think you might actually see a bigger impact in May."

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I'm sure I probably missed something else, but I thought Zelda 64 was the closest thing to an open-world game before GTA III.

Final Fantasy VII

[Dakar the Fourth]

Wasn't that more of a rendered world than a 3D world?

[ajprice]

Zelda? FF? Pfft, how about Jet Set Willy!!??!??


Wikipedia

A very tired Miner Willy has to tidy up all the items left around his house after a huge party. With this done his housekeeper Maria will allow him access to his bedroom. Willy's mansion house was bought with the wealth obtained from his adventures in Manic Miner but much of it remains unexplored and it appears to be full of strange creatures, possibly a result of the previous (missing) owner's experiments. Willy must explore the enormous mansion and its grounds (including a beach and a yacht) to fully tidy-up the house so he can get some much-needed sleep.

Ok its not 'open' open like a modern open world game, but 60 rooms in a game in 1984 was brilliant!

[ort888]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

See, in my opinion Nintendo games have been more evolutionary than revolutionary. The mario and zelda games, while definitely some of the best of the respective genres, never really pushed any boundaries. They're kind of like Apple - they take existing ideas and perfect them.

Their hardware was innovative, I agree. But what about Mario 64 was innovative? It wasn't the first 3d platformer, but it was definitely one of the best. Maybe I'm just forgetting their revolutionary games, though - what would you say was their pinnacle of "pushing the envelope"?

By your standards there must only be 2 or 3 revolutionary games. If you didn't think Mario 64 was innovative then I don't think this is even worth discussing.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

MS: 360 GTA IV Outselling PS3 Version 2-to-1 : Next Generation - Interactive Entertainment Today, Video Game and Industry News - Home of Edge Online[/i]

Holy cow I am surprised that the PS3 version is selling that well considering how much higher the Xbox install base is.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by ort888 

By your standards there must only be 2 or 3 revolutionary games. If you didn't think Mario 64 was innovative then I don't think this is even worth discussing.

I don't know about 2 or 3, but DEFINITELY less than 20 and probably less than 10. Gaming hasn't been around that long (since, what, the late 70s?). If there were 50 revolutionary games that would be a revolution multiple times a year. Methinks people throw around this "revolutionary" title around way too much.

I would consider a game revolutionary if it comes up with a new idea that influences many games to follow.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Wasn't that more of a rendered world than a 3D world?

Well, you didn't say "3D", you said "open".

It was a little of both.

[Dakar the Fourth]

It's not really open though. The view was fixed. You can't explore behind a building if you wanted to.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Holy cow I am surprised that the PS3 version is selling that well considering how much higher the Xbox install base is.

? You must have been really pessimistic for sales of the PS3 version then.

The US installed base of the 360 : PS3 is probably about 2.4 to 1.

If the the retail sales is really 2 : 1, that means that the PS3 is doing a bit better than the installed base would suggest, but not by much.

We won't know the real numbers for a little while yet though. Who knows if they're 2 : 1 or 2.4 : 1 or 1.7 : 1 for that matter. My guess though is that it will be close to 2 : 1 360 : PS3.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

? You must have been really pessimistic for sales of the PS3 version then.

The US installed base of the 360 : PS3 is probably about 2.4 to 1.

If the the retail sales is really 2 : 1, that means that the PS3 is doing a bit better than the installed base would suggest, but not by much.

We won't know the real numbers for a little while yet though. Who knows if they're 2 : 1 or 2.4 : 1 or 1.7 : 1 for that matter. My guess though is that it will be close to 2 : 1 360 : PS3.

I think the more interesting thing will be how many consoles are moved after the release of GTA. Sony was marketing the PS3 as the console that GTA4 was meant for. I wonder if that will pay off at all...

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I think the more interesting thing will be how many consoles are moved after the release of GTA.

Yep, this is the first must-have game for both consoles. I feel like the war has started in earnest now.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If the the retail sales is really 2 : 1, that means that the PS3 is doing a bit better than the installed base would suggest, but not by much.

So in other words exactly what I was saying originally no?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So in other words exactly what I was saying originally no?

Not really. Your post suggests that GTA IV is selling a lot better on the PS3 than expected.

That doesn't seem to be the case. GTA IV was always expected to move some hardware units on the PS3 side, and probably more than the 360 (since people believed more gamers were holding off on their PS3 purchases until GTA IV came out), so that GTA IV sales on the PS3 was expected to be a bit better than the installed base would suggest.

If the 2:1 ratio holds true (and that's a big if), then that sounds about right. However, if GTA IV software sales mirrors installed base (say around 2.4 : 1), then that would be considered a blow for the PS3. OTOH, if say GTA IV sales are closer to say 1.5-1.7 : 1 for the 360 over the PS3, then some would say that could be taken as a small victory for the PS3. I think a ratio like the latter is probably what Sony was looking for, but I'd be a bit surprised if they got that.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Not really. Your post suggests that GTA IV is selling a lot better on the PS3 than expected.

Um, no I didn't. I said I was surprised that it is selling as good as it is considering the small install base and like you said it is actually doing a bit better. So my statement was correct plus some.

If you want to interpret that as me saying "It is flying off the shelves like HD-DVD's" then so be it.

[starman]

PS3 has outsold Xbox 360 in Europe since October - Engadget

[Dakar the Fourth]

Here's the numbers I was kinda looking for a few pages ago. They are kinda out of date now, but still useful.
Npd: Who's Winning The Console War In The US?

All numbers are US.

2007 Total Hardware Sales
Nintendo DS - 8,500,000
Wii - 6,290,000
Xbox 360 - 4,620,000
PlayStation 2 - 3,970,000
PSP - 3,820,000
PlayStation 3 - 2,560,000
Game Boy Advance - 1,120,000

Lifetime-To-Date Total Hardware Sales
PlayStation 2 - 41,120,000
Game Boy Advance - 36,240,000
Nintendo DS - 17,650,000
PSP - 10,470,000
Xbox 360 - 9,150,000
Wii - 7,380,000
PlayStation 3 - 3,250,000

[Dakar the Fourth]

Grand Theft Auto IV Day One and Week One Sales - Xbox

Take-Two Interactive announced today day one and week one sales of Grand Theft Auto IV, revealing that the game sold approximately 6 million units globally with an estimated retail value of more than $500 million in the first week. The game sold approximately 3.6 million units on its opening day with a retail value of approximately $310 million globally.

As a result, Grand Theft Auto IV broke the previous video game launch record set by Halo 3, $170 million, and the all-time entertainment launch record of $404 million set by Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End.