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Rumor is true!
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Surfer
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May 25, 2001, 04:00 PM
 
From ogrady.com:

The real deal on the new PowerBook. Three new PowerBooks in the course of seven months? Could you imagine anyone more excited than yours truly? Well, it's true. I have implied in these pages several weeks ago that Apple is working on another new PowerBook model to add to the mix. At the time I didn't want to potentially spoil Apple's coming out party for the iBook Dual USB. Yesterday the press went wild on comments that Alpha-Top Corporation spokesman Wang Hsin-wu made in an interview with a Bloomberg reporter. Reader of this site remember that Alpha-Top has made the last several PowerBook models (including Pismo, Lombard and Wallstreet) under a contract from Apple Computer.

In the interview Hsin-Wu said that there is a new larger-screen iBook that will be introduced in July and that the new iBook would come in a variety of colors. Apple today went on record saying that "The Alpha-Top spokesperson quoted in the article was incorrect in regard to Apple's iBook plans. What he said is not true."

Well yes and no.

Yes, Apple is developing a new PowerBook, but no, it isn't technically an iBook.

Say hello to Son of Pismo. According to sources close to the project, Apple is hard at work on a new PowerBook model that will sit neatly between the newly announced iBook Dual USB and the PowerBook G4 Titanium. The new model will ship with a 14-inch TFT display and a G3 processor and the will essentially be a Pismo-like machine in a new 2001 enclosure. Exactly what the enclosure will be remains a mystery, but we do know that it will be thinner than Pismo and will take design queues from both the Titanium and the iBook Dual USB. Pixel pushing readers: send us your Photoshop mockups for inclusion in our Monday update.

The Son of Pismo announcement will take place during Steve Jobs' keynote address at Macworld Expo NY on 19 July 2001. Price point is expected to fall in the neighborhood of US$2000.
     
graffix
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May 25, 2001, 05:42 PM
 
The real deal on the new PowerBook.
Um... we'll wait and see...
I have implied in these pages several weeks ago that Apple is working on another new PowerBook model to add to the mix. At the time I didn't want to potentially spoil Apple's coming out party for the iBook Dual USB.
Okay... I can play 'prognosticator' myself... I predict that Apple is working on some sort of new desktop computer... it'll have tons of new cool stuff... but I don't want to say just yet what it's going to be because I don't want to ruin the surprise...
chah! as if...
In the interview Hsin-Wu said that there is a new larger-screen iBook that will be introduced in July and that the new iBook would come in a variety of colors.
Great... the last time one of their spokesman spouted off about a new portable they were building for Apple it took almost a year for it to reach production... (the current iBook).
Apple is hard at work on a new PowerBook model that will sit neatly between the newly announced iBook Dual USB and the PowerBook G4 Titanium
.
Sit neatly? If they try to fit it between the Combo-Drive iBook and the 400Mhz TiBook, it will more likely be 'wedged' between the two, not 'sitting neatly'. If this is true then I have visions of the 'cube'... great concept but no market.

The new model will ship with a 14-inch TFT display and a G3 processor and the will essentially be a Pismo-like machine in a new 2001 enclosure.
Great... So basically if this were true then it WOULD essentially be a larger screen iBook...
Exactly what the enclosure will be remains a mystery, but we do know that it will be thinner than Pismo and will take design queues from both the Titanium and the iBook Dual USB.
I'm voting for Bratwurst... I havent' seen anybody make a laptop case out of that yet...
Pixel pushing readers: send us your Photoshop mockups for inclusion in our Monday update.
Translation: "I invite you to join in my lunacy..."
Hehe...
/me whips out the salt pills...
g.

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wild9
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May 25, 2001, 05:54 PM
 
Oh, no.

.... no..... please. Please, Dear God- er, Steve. Don't do this to me. not now. Not after this DVD/Combo fiasco. My pockets are only so deep.

In my never-ending quest to have the coolest computers in town, I've never had Apple come out with THIS MANY cool things.

If this is true.

If.


There's still hope for me and my pockets. Still hope.
Compulsive Software Update Button Clickers welcome!
     
warrior queen
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May 25, 2001, 06:04 PM
 
OK- here's my $0.02-

Apple is moving to an "all LCD" product line, right? Both of their laptops are LCD, all of their monitors are LCD and the iMac is.......a CRT. Which one doesn't fit with Steve's pronouncment at WWDC? Right. Our old analog pal, the iMac.

So, if Apple is going to create a new LCD-ized form factor for the iMac- a sleek, thin, all-in-one A/V Internet machine, where might they turn to manufacture such a beastie?

How about to the company that's currently making their sleek, all-in-one A/V Internet machine? Yep, the laptop people.

They'd have the experience working slim form factor designs *and* with LCDs.

I'd expect to see a flat-panel OSX iMac at MWNY.

That's my $0.02.....or maybe more like $0.25 ;^)

Now if my iceBook would just ship!!!!!!
     
wild9
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May 25, 2001, 06:16 PM
 
I sure hope you're right.

At "about $2000".... well, for $2500 I can get a G4 with a gorgeous display as it is. And it's titanium.

Let's see...

ibooks $1299-1799
xbooks $1799-2199 (?)
Tibooks $2599-3499

Or there abouts.... that's just too much. It doesn't make sense, really.

Phew. I'm sold on the "new iMac" idea, too.
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graffix
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May 25, 2001, 09:51 PM
 
While I don't debate that there's definitely a 'price-hole' that another line could fill (a $700 range between $1799 and $2499), I think that's the gap Apple likes to keep between their consumer and pro lineups.
The reason I don't think there will be a 'midway' laptop is simply this: what features could they add in a laptop that would incline people to pay more than they would for a Combo Drive iBook (a cool machine in itself), yet not cannibalize the TiBook sales with a cheaper alternative to it's feature set? (meaning they can't offer as many features as the TiBook).
I think the cube will continue to be a niche product, after a few adjustments, and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to introduce a PDA sometime in the future...
I definitely don't think they have room in their lineup for another laptop though...
but who knows? I'll be happily using my iBook (if I ever get it) for quite a while, so I could care less at the moment...
g.

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ibookbum
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May 25, 2001, 10:50 PM
 
Apple will not make another mistake like the cube. The timing and reason doesn't work far another laptop. Another iMac is 95% for sure. Maybe it is a very porable iMac?
     
Rhino99
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May 26, 2001, 01:22 AM
 
I too think Apple won't come out with another laptop at this point. They still have a very clearly defined product lineup. Think of it this way, too: take a topline iBook at $1800. Add ram for say $100. Add a 20mb drive for $200. Add an Airport card for $100. All of a sudden the gap to the base TiBook is only $300.

Also, if they announce a new iMac flat panel, it will be very big news. If for nothing else, they don't want to steal their own thunder by announcing too many new products at once. I think it's far more likely they'll announce incremental changes to the TiBooks, and maybe up the base ram in the iBook for the same price. Maybe colors on the iBook (shades of grey?).

I guess graffix covered this stuff better and funnier than I did.

Oh and one more thing : What is the meaning of the statement "The rumor is true!" ??? I think we'll have to get a little closer to MWNY to make a statement like that. And check out the circular logic of the O'Grady author: "I have implied in these pages several weeks ago that Apple is working on another new PowerBook model." His own statements about rumors are part of his "evidence!" Isn't that a little out of whack?

Hey does O'Grady work for the Enquirer, making the annual psychic predictions?
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Surfer  (op)
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May 26, 2001, 04:47 AM
 
hmmm, yes this rumor is very interesting and seems very untrue looking at apples history.
But I must say that ogrady had been predicting powerbook announcments for the last 6 years and they have almost always been true. He predicted the new ibook back in march, and then everyone thought that the specs and price were ridiculous.

If you look at todays stautus, the powerbook stands for quite a big share of apple profits. A laptop is today selling more than ever!
I think apple has realized this with the Tibook and wants to cash in!

I personally hope that this rumor isn't true as I have just bought a ibook, coming form a 14.1 inch lombard. I really like the format of the new ibook, but if I am dissapointed by ibooks small screen ( I do a lot of graphics) and they release a new 14.1 screen I will be very sad.
I think there is a market for a 14.1 screen as not everyone will be comfortable with the small letters on a ibook, however I find it hard to see a place for such a laptop when there is only a $500 difference to the tibook. If I want a portable I would go with the ibook, if I want power, I would go with the Tibook. Maybe they will introduce a new Tibook at a higher price with a lot more power and features and will sell the new powerbook for around $2500?

[This message has been edited by Surfer (edited 05-26-2001).]
     
rudynorff
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May 26, 2001, 05:11 AM
 
Sorry guys, but it won't happen!

Maybe Apple will bring out the PowerBook G4 with SuperDrives installed, but that's all what's going to happen.
And I'm going to tell you why:

1) A lot of Apple's buyers would be pissed (including me).

2) Why should Apple bring out a revision of the iBook when it's already selling large numbers of them?

3) The new LCD's are probably for the new iMac. iBooks sales are topping the charts at the moment, so why do a new iBook? But iMac sales are starting to fall behind and what Apple needs is a major remake of the iMac. 14.1" LCD is approxamately the same as a 15" CRT, right? So why not give the iMac a TFT-Display and make it a major redesign?

I bet the new iMac will look a lot like the iBook or TiBook if you ask me. I love the new design Apple is doing, it's simple, it's beautiful!

Well, this is what I think will happen at Macworld this July. Maybe we'll see some upgrades to the PowerMac line, Dual 733MHz would be nice. BTW, does anybody know when G5 is supposed to arrive?

- rudy

P.S. If Steve Jobs should release this new iBook, he would shoot himself in his own leg!
     
Rhino99
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May 26, 2001, 05:25 AM
 
Well, I understand your feelings Surfer. I've been hoping for this small form-factor type iBook since the 2400 was discontinued, so I see we have different perspectives. Except I do design too, but don't plan to do much of that on the iBook. What you say about O'Grady's notebook insight is interesting as I have not followed that site.

Take heart, tho. If Apple does come out with a 14" notebook between the i & the Ti, at least you should be able to sell your iBook for a decent $$ as it will be new and demand should still be high.

Best wishes!

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paterss
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May 26, 2001, 07:43 AM
 
Man...what a $hity position to be in.

something new is coming : but so much speculation about it.
There is going to be no big thunder now, it will be a case of everyone comparing what comes with their own hyped up wishes.

The screen won't be big enough, the processor won't be the right type or speed. There won't be enough RAM or HD. Not the right kind of 'ping' when it goes 'PING' etc etc etc

But...Apple have a show in July in New York...what should they do.?
Announce now ? Hmmm..not nice to be driven by rumours....but to wait...its still a long way away...

Stuart



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May 26, 2001, 09:13 AM
 
Paterss you're right. Too bad. Shame on Alpha-top. Now, on to my own speculation:

Zero percent chance the iBook is updated so soon (before pre-order ship?!?). I do think a LCD iMac would cost too much, but MAYBE Apple could do it. Howwever with Wang admonition of colors on a laptop, I'm guessing it reallt is a loptop. What can Apple offer that won't canibalize TiBook? Easy:
Think 6+ lbs. 600 Mhz G3. 100Mhz bus. PC Card slots. Removable drives. Also look for the Ti to get a better graphics card. That way you have a three tiered product line.

iBook: small, light, and cheap
xBook: fully-featured and customizable/swapable
TiBook: professional, G4 & graphics

Isn't pointless conjecture fun?
     
Macademic
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May 26, 2001, 10:22 AM
 
Another laptop model could make sense.

Consider that the iBook is such a good value for the money- unusually so for Apple. Perhaps this means it's a low-margin product, designed mainly to win back market share in education.

If so, Apple would probably be happy to steer potential iBook customers (esp. semi-pro, non-students) to a higher-margin product- something that offers enough important features to entice the semi-pro to spend another $1000 over a mid-range iBook, but which only costs Apple an additional $200 to produce.

Suggested spec: 1" thin, < 5 lbs, 14" screen, monitor spanning and higher res video output, 20 Gb HD base, 128 Mb RAM base, USB, Firewire, Airport slot, PC Card slot, internal optical drive, ATI Mobility 8 Mb video, 600 MHz G3. Price: $1999 base.

Alternatively, perhaps a 500 MHz G4 instead of the 600 MHz G3, but then a base price more like $2199.

Coupled to this, TiBook would go to > 600 Mhz and get 16 Mb nVideo graphics, for base price of $2999. The low-end TiBook would disappear.

Don't think of it as a bigger iBook that would cannibalize TiBook sales. Think of it as a trimmed-down TiBook that would cannibalize iBook sales.

Am I the only one out there who would gladly spend $2500 on a loaded version of such a machine, but who will otherwise spend < $2000 on an iBook? I don't want the TiBook 15" screen and associated added width (and fragility) on the road. Apple must be worried right now about potential TiBook buyers like myself looking seriously at the iBook instead. Just give me rugged portability and flexible video output... I'll pay a good bit for this!

     
graffix
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May 26, 2001, 10:39 AM
 
One thing...
I wouldn't expect any processors over 500Mhz in the laptops until the G4 powerbooks are bumped a few MHz...
For right now 500Mhz will be the top speed IMO.
The book you just described sounds like a definite Ti-cannibalizer, so it's doubtufl you'd see anything like it.
It's pretty tricky having to account for the rest of the product line when speculating like this...
g.

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BrunoBruin
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May 26, 2001, 10:51 AM
 
But I must say that ogrady had been predicting powerbook announcments for the last 6 years and they have almost always been true. He predicted the new ibook back in march, and then everyone thought that the specs and price were ridiculous.
Oh please. I could have predicted the new iBook in March. Everyone knew the iBook was due for an overhaul, the only question was when it would be unveiled. And the reason everyone thought the specs and price were ridiculous is that they were. Didn't he insist the CD-ROM would retail for $999 and the combo for $1,499?

Apple may very well be developing a third laptop but I agree with others that the gap between the iBook and Ti is a very slim space to live. It would have to offer more features than the iBook but steer well clear of the market for the Ti -- maybe 600MHz G3, and leave the G4 to the pro machine.

Which would be nice, if for no other reason than to tweak those who insist the G3 is going away.

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Severed Hand of Vader
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May 27, 2001, 04:43 PM
 
Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
Oh please. I could have predicted the new iBook in March. Everyone knew the iBook was due for an overhaul, the only question was when it would be unveiled. And the reason everyone thought the specs and price were ridiculous is that they were. Didn't he insist the CD-ROM would retail for $999 and the combo for $1,499?
Bruno's right.
O'Grady is rumormongering just like Ryan Meader (MOSR.com) and all the rest. His predictions for the iBook 2001 followed common sense; a few things, like the price points he provided, were absurd.

Which is not to say that all these rumors aren't a ton of fun!



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May 27, 2001, 05:07 PM
 
Even IF Apple thinks that portable "hubs" are the future, a third portable would preferably have to be so different from the iBook2 and TiPBG4 that even the owners of those models would want to by *also* this third "thing". So, 14" screen (by making iBook screen wider as when going from pismo to Ti), with all the ports of the iBook BUT no internal DVD etc drive. Even the battery would be built in and could be changed only by removing the bottom plate (as when installing Airport into Ti).
The result: iPad (500 G3) or PowerPad (500 G4) that is razor thin and weights around 2.5 pounds. Apple could even offer no external drives because one could load programs using firewire disk mode.
     
mac1200
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May 27, 2001, 05:29 PM
 
When I called the Apple Store to place my ibook order, I asked the rep flat out if there was a new ibook model coming out. She told me that the ibook is it and if there was something else coming out of the pipleline *hint*, it wouldn't be in the ibook price range. She mentioned using the word "logically" there would have to be a product to seperate the Tibook and the ibook.

So based on the conversation I had with the rep, (IMO) the middle-tiered product will be the new powerbook.

I think the reps have more empowerment now to clear up any issues surrounding the ibook debacle. Maybe someone can call and see if this was just a one-time occurence?

Thanks.
     
icruise
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May 27, 2001, 05:39 PM
 
As far as I know, the reps know essentially nothing about new products until they are released, and even if they did, they wouldn't go around telling customers. Trust me on this.
     
tie
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May 27, 2001, 06:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Macademic:
Am I the only one out there who would gladly spend $2500 on a loaded version of such a machine, but who will otherwise spend < $2000 on an iBook? I don't want the TiBook 15" screen and associated added width (and fragility) on the road. Apple must be worried right now about potential TiBook buyers like myself looking seriously at the iBook instead. Just give me rugged portability and flexible video output...
I think you're the only one. You're only complaint with the ti is that the screen is too big? The cost is fine but you think the screen is too big for the price. That seems backwards to me, but okay.
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BrunoBruin
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May 27, 2001, 07:18 PM
 
Bruno's right.
Thank you, Severed.

Now that I've thought about it, I'm starting to think Pismo 2 might be a reality (those 14-inch screens must be going somewhere, and I'm becoming more and more convinced it's not the iMac), but for all the wrong reasons. Do you think Apple has become a bit giddy with the Titanium's success and think they can move that further upscale, STARTING at $3,000 and going to ~$4,500, maybe with 16MB of VRAM and a combo drive at the top, and thus leaving room to slot a machine ranging from $2,000-$2,500? A machine that would be essentially the iBook mechanically, but with a larger screen and a humongously larger profit margin?

And isn't that pricing what got them into trouble with the Cube? If the Cube had been priced at $1,499 or (yikes!) its current $1,299, how many might they have sold?

Right now the 500MHz Ti starts at a rather breathtaking $3,499, and you gotta figure a lot of that $900 increase over the 400 is margin. An extra 10GB hard drive and 128MB of RAM doesn't cost that much, even retail. If you dropped the 400Mhz model, nobody would argue that there isn't room between the iBook and Titanium for a third model.
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mac1200
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May 27, 2001, 07:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Icruise:
As far as I know, the reps know essentially nothing about new products until they are released, and even if they did, they wouldn't go around telling customers. Trust me on this.

Well, that's what I thought. Loose lips sink ships, but in the ibook debacle, I think they're told to clarify a bit more.

I had the conversation with the rep, so it's not like I heard it from a friend of a friend. Maybe this was an unusual occurence, but it happened. I just wanted to relay it out...
     
SaM 01
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May 27, 2001, 07:45 PM
 
I hate this. I really do.

Just when I finally work up enough nerve to get an iBook this crap comes out. There is no way I am going to buy ANYTHING now until I can substantiate this, because I would hate my iBook and Apple forever if I bought one now and they came out with a 14 inch screen the next month.

This stinks. #!%^*#@! :-(
     
mac1200
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May 27, 2001, 07:54 PM
 
I can understand your frustration.

Well, if they do come out with a 14" model, it'll cost more (unless you don't mind dropping more coin).
     
Macademic
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May 27, 2001, 10:55 PM
 
BrunoBruin wrote:

"Do you think Apple has become a bit giddy with the Titanium's success and think they can move that further upscale, STARTING at $3,000 and going to ~$4,500, maybe with 16MB of VRAM and a combo drive at the top, and thus leaving room to slot a machine ranging from $2,000-$2,500? A machine that would be essentially the iBook mechanically, but with a larger screen and a humongously larger profit margin?

And isn't that pricing what got them into trouble with the Cube? If the Cube had been priced at $1,499 or (yikes!) its current $1,299, how many might they have sold?"

* * *

The trouble with the Cube is that there's very little pricing room between the high-end iMac and the low-end G4 Tower in which the Cube can fit. When it was rolled out, it was actually more expensive than a low-end Tower. It's now cheaper, but not by much.

On the other hand, the low end iBook is more than $1000 less expensive than the least expensive TiBook, and $2000 less expensive than the 500 MHz TiBook. That's a huge space.

So I don't see the Cube analogy here.

Does another model make sense for Apple? The answer to that depends on whether you think the 500 MHz TiBook is obscenely overpriced, or whether the 400 MHz TiBook is dramatically underpriced. I doubt they are both priced at similar margins (there can't be $1000 difference between a 400 and 500 MHz processor, can there? There's not much else that separates the two).

My bet is that the 400 MHz TiBook is a squeeze for Apple at < $2500; those 15" screens are probably expensive, especially since Apple is the only customer. If so, if they could replace that model with something that uses the iBook's guts in a "pro" configuration, or the TiBook's guts with less expensive components, it would make sense...
     
kooBi
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May 28, 2001, 05:18 AM
 
I reckon the 'next big thing' is a major revision to the iMac. I think some of the posts have been close. I think we can envisage a very portable, 'flattenable' iMac (due to the LCD screen) with a very interesting form-factor... maybe with a PDA baby sister which cradles snugly somewhere out of sight...??? Maybe it won't even be called an iMac. Maybe it will have a G4 processor instead of a G3 (wouldn't that be nice!!).

Updates to the TiBook are on the cards for July but I don't know about the iBook....

It's gonna be pretty exciting whatever happens
     
   
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