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News FApple Support Being Transferred To India
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silentfeet
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:06 PM
 
I find this news that Apple has decided to ship its tech support off to India very disturbing and disappointing. However, the idea of Apple not using American workers is certainly not novel. If you don't believe me, take a look at where your powerbook was manufactured ( I know manufaturing is not tech support, but the idea of out sourcing overseas is the same). I don't believe you will find the words "Made In The U.S.A." anywhere ( no other computer companies list these now hard to find words on their computer porducts, either to the best ofmy knowledge).

Moreover, my experience with Apple tech support has NEVER been with an agent from the U.S., but rather an agent in Canada. Some of them weren't so hot, either. Now, Apple's talking India–not Canada. That's even worse. I have dealt with tech support coming out of India on other computer products using Windoz, and in almost every instance it sucks the big one. You get someone who is just reading a script something like reading a laundry list out loud. Well, I can tell you, I will not be forking over the $349 three year tech support fee on a Macbook Pro to speak to someone in Bangalore, (isn't that the same name as the military explosive device used to blast holes through barbed wire?) or any other city in India. I will, instead, seek out other alternatives for support and purchase an extended warranty from an authorized reseller, hopefully one in America, offering tech support here in the good old U.S. of A.

Sorry for the long message, but this news really frosts my boopee! Whatever happened to "made by Americans for Americans"? As different as we macolytes like to think Apple is, and all it stands for in the way of being non-mainstream in ideas and application, Apple, apparently, is not as pure a non-conformist corporation as a dedicated macolyte might have hoped. , Well, like the old song "I Can Dream, Can't I" , I'll have to content myself with just that–dreaming of the way it could be one day. I apologize for any grammatical and/or lame ass writing, but, it's hard to see a company whose products you've loved over the years bcome more and more like them Windoz guys. What does the rest of the Mac community have to say about this?
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meelk
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:07 PM
 
ahahahahahahaha
     
jedi2187
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:11 PM
 
hee-hee.... "boopee".
     
turtle777
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by silentfeet
FApple
What Fiona Apple outsourced to India ?

Uhm, no, wait

-t
     
euphras
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by silentfeet
I find this news that Apple has decided to ship its tech support off to India very disturbing and disappointing. However, the idea of Apple not using American workers is certainly not novel. If you don't believe me, take a look at where your powerbook was manufactured ( I know manufaturing is not tech support, but the idea of out sourcing overseas is the same). I don't believe you will find the words "Made In The U.S.A." anywhere ( no other computer companies list these now hard to find words on their computer porducts, either to the best ofmy knowledge).

Moreover, my experience with Apple tech support has NEVER been with an agent from the U.S., but rather an agent in Canada. Some of them weren't so hot, either. Now, Apple's talking India–not Canada. That's even worse. I have dealt with tech support coming out of India on other computer products using Windoz, and in almost every instance it sucks the big one. You get someone who is just reading a script something like reading a laundry list out loud. Well, I can tell you, I will not be forking over the $349 three year tech support fee on a Macbook Pro to speak to someone in Bangalore, (isn't that the same name as the military explosive device used to blast holes through barbed wire?) or any other city in India. I will, instead, seek out other alternatives for support and purchase an extended warranty from an authorized reseller, hopefully one in America, offering tech support here in the good old U.S. of A.

Sorry for the long message, but this news really frosts my boopee! Whatever happened to "made by Americans for Americans"? As different as we macolytes like to think Apple is, and all it stands for in the way of being non-mainstream in ideas and application, Apple, apparently, is not as pure a non-conformist corporation as a dedicated macolyte might have hoped. , Well, like the old song "I Can Dream, Can't I" , I'll have to content myself with just that–dreaming of the way it could be one day. I apologize for any grammatical and/or lame ass writing, but, it's hard to see a company whose products you've loved over the years bcome more and more like them Windoz guys. What does the rest of the Mac community have to say about this?
Me thinks Macs would be in the range of 10 000 bucks (starting with the Mac Mini)


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Goldfinger
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Mar 9, 2006, 01:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by silentfeet
Whatever happened to "made by Americans for Americans"?
There are other countries in the world.

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vmarks
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Mar 9, 2006, 11:09 PM
 
I've talked with Apple tech support in Texas.

Texas, despite some Texans intention to secede, remains a part of the United States of America.

When I find my calls answered in India, I'll voice my displeasure to California.
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volcano
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Mar 10, 2006, 12:28 AM
 
I'd like to see some proof, silentfeet. Give me a link to a relevant news site that relays this news - then I'll believe it.

Originally Posted by vmarks
I've talked with Apple tech support in Texas.

Texas, despite some Texans intention to secede, remains a part of the United States of America.
     
meelk
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Mar 10, 2006, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by volcano
I'd like to see some proof, silentfeet. Give me a link to a relevant news site that relays this news - then I'll believe it.




try (and this is a hard one) www.macnn.com


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CharlesS
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Mar 10, 2006, 12:39 AM
 
Apple's been using tech support from India at least since last summer, when I tried to call them to get some replacement install DVDs since the Disc 2 that came with my iMac turned out to be corrupt (something I wish I would have found out about before I repartitioned the hard drive). I talked to a guy who not only had no idea what I was talking about regarding my problem, but couldn't even understand English well enough to get my mailing address. In fact, the guy didn't even know the format of a US mailing address at all. He just had no idea what a "state" was or that it was abbreviated by a 2-letter code, and no amount of explaining would resolve that issue for him. He'd just keep on asking me to spell the "county" name, over and over and over and over and over. He just couldn't accept that "Kansas" is spelled "KS". And he'd keep putting me on hold for 5 minutes every other sentence, presumably to ask a buddy to figure out what some English word or phrase I said meant. The most irritating thing about the whole ordeal is that they already had my address on file from a previous call, although no amount of explaining could convey this fact to him in a way that he'd understand. It turned what should have been a 10 minute call into at least a 90 minute call.

Needless to say, I never did get that replacement DVD.

I don't mean to sound racist or anything, and I'm sure that these guys in India are needing to make money to survive, but tech support is something that just should not be outsourced to non-English speaking countries. I'm not all chauvenistic about the USA, and I wouldn't care if I called tech support and got someone from Canada, or the UK, or Australia, or whatever. But they need to speak the same language I'm speaking. I don't understand how you're supposed to tech-support someone if you only have a high-school level grasp of the language you're supposed to be communicating in...

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Mar 10, 2006, 12:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS
tech support is something that just should not be outsourced to non-English speaking countries.
English is an official language of India. It is an English speaking country.
     
SSharon
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Mar 10, 2006, 01:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
English is an official language of India. It is an English speaking country.
Well then they officially need teach it better. I don't care what they claim, I care if I can communicate on the phone with them.
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Mar 10, 2006, 02:07 AM
 
Yeah, it's no revelation or new development that Apple is outsourcing tech support to India - it's been that way for a while. If the Indian tech cannot help you, you'll probably get transferred to America. One of the problems is that the cost of living in America is greatly inflated, so Americans expect to get paid high wages even for menial jobs. It makes sense, then, for corporations to outsource such jobs. Those of you who are blaming Indians should be thankful humans are still required for tech support - once AI is sufficiently developed it will be doing the script reading instead.

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Mar 10, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
still...booo
     
alphasubzero949
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Mar 10, 2006, 03:08 AM
 
Whoever made fun of Dell for having outsourced their tech support to India, I now laugh at the plate of crow you're about to enjoy.

Smart business move by Apple, if you think about it. If it weren't, all of these companies wouldn't have packed their bags from the capitalist capital of the world in search of greener pastures.
     
aberdeenwriter
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Mar 10, 2006, 04:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac
Yeah, it's no revelation or new development that Apple is outsourcing tech support to India - it's been that way for a while. If the Indian tech cannot help you, you'll probably get transferred to America. One of the problems is that the cost of living in America is greatly inflated, so Americans expect to get paid high wages even for menial jobs. It makes sense, then, for corporations to outsource such jobs. Those of you who are blaming Indians should be thankful humans are still required for tech support - once AI is sufficiently developed it will be doing the script reading instead.
You are absolutely right. By the way, when the President was in India a week or two ago he told us this was going to happen. It's been in the business news pages before that.

India hopes to be seen as the world's laboratory, and I suppose it's tech support outsourcing center as well, and China would be the world's manufacturing center.

Just like the blacksmith was phased out by the industrial revolution, the technology/information age is having it's effects, too.

I'm afraid we'll all just have to get used to it.
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Mar 10, 2006, 04:35 AM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentfeet
Whatever happened to "made by Americans for Americans"?
There are other countries in the world.
i agree with him....it doent mean that if its made from america its only for americans?! your not the only country here..
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Mar 10, 2006, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
Whoever made fun of Dell for having outsourced their tech support to India, I now laugh at the plate of crow you're about to enjoy.

Smart business move by Apple, if you think about it. If it weren't, all of these companies wouldn't have packed their bags from the capitalist capital of the world in search of greener pastures.
And if they do as poor of a job with it as Dell did then I'll make fun of Apple as well. Not sure where the crow comes in here.

I didn't mind Dell's outsourcing, until I needed them and realized that they went out of their way to find the most idiotic people in Bangalore to work for them.
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Mar 10, 2006, 11:27 AM
 
I know of one person that is very happy about the move of Apple to India. A person that I met on another site. Have spoke to him on the phone, I find it easy to understand his English. His goal is to study at MIT.

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Mar 10, 2006, 12:15 PM
 
The US is getting its ass handed to it in the areas of Science and Math, which is a shame since our government doesn't really seem to have an agenda that would improve upon this situation other than all sorts of talk about how education is important, with little actual action or commitment to better this situation. This government talks a lot about how education is important, but make cutbacks to higher education student loans, underfunds NCLB, and has not embraced things like open source software within the government or school system (where the most innovation is taking place) while numerous other countries are all over this.

According to the Red Hat CEO that visited our school recently, he doesn't know of any tech companies that are hiring Americans anymore. It's not just a means to save a buck either, even R&D divisions and operations that are absolutely VITAL to a company are hiring non-Americans.

I can understand how the language barrier and cultural barrier can be frustrating, but perhaps India just offers a larger pool of talent to draw from than Texas, or anywhere else in America?

Has it occurred to you that maybe this move isn't simply a cost-cutting measure, but an attempt to actually improve the quality of tech support in terms of having the most knowledgeable and talented employees? I can understand the frustrations over these barriers, but maybe these can be hacked away at and will improve over time? Just throwing this idea out there...
     
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Mar 10, 2006, 01:20 PM
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...-SearchStories
Forbes: A Billionaire 'Boom'

NEW YORK, March 9, 2006
(CBS)

A Quote

"A billion just isn't what it used to be."
Luisa Kroll, Forbes Magazine


(CBS) Becoming a billionaire is something most people dream about but few actually accomplish. Still, CBS News Correspondent Anthony Mason reports, it might be getting easier.

"A billion just isn't what it used to be," said Luisa Kroll, the leader of some 30 reporters who ranked the world's wealthiest people for this week's issue of Forbes. "There are now 793 billionaires. Three years ago there were only 476."

One thing is still the same, though. Bill Gates is the world's richest man, according to the Forbes list. His $50 billion earns him the title for the 12th straight year.

Second place this time around goes to another well-known billionaire: investor Warren Buffet with $42 billion.

Then there are the newcomers. Calvin Ayre, a Canadian, has built a billion-dollar online gaming empire. K. P. Singh owns the real-estate under many of India's outsourcing centers.

India now has 23 billionaires,
but the U.S. still leads the way. Half of the world's billionaires – 371 of them – live in America, holding well over $1 trillion in assets among them.


Friday, November 25
Exclusive: DLF Group To Raise A Real Estate Fund With The Help Of Private Equity Giants
by Sahad on Fri 25 Nov 2005 09:50 PM IST
We would always bring exclusive news to you as and when we get it. In fact, I have a few leads and would be posting it once I verify them.
I have this lead on DLF Group, Delhi-based real estate biggie, that it's raising a huge real estate fund. The fund size is likely to be $1 billion, according to some sources. Private equity giants like Blackstone, Carlyle and Temasek India Advisors are being courted by DLF for raising this fund. Some sources say that the fund would be investing only in DLF's various upcoming real estate projects.
DLF, owned by K P Singh (in the picture), is a good real estate company. It has profits in the range of Rs 400 crore a year. They pioneered quality construction in Delhi. Their building, DLF Universal, in Delh's Connaught Place is still the best building in that part of the town and commands a significant premium in rentals compared to the other buildings in the same area. They have built international class housing colonies in Gurgaon, a southern suburb of Delhi.
So if any private equity firm wants a share of the real estate pie, it should aspire for a partnership with DLF. If you ask for a suggestion for a good alternative to DLF, I would give Unitech's name. It's also a quality real estate company.

UPDATE: The Economic Times reports that DLF is looking at a $1 billion private placement. It more or less validates my story. What I think is that a fund is more likely since that would sort out the legal issues surrounding the deal.
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euchomai
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Mar 10, 2006, 01:49 PM
 
Seriously... F - Apple
...
     
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Mar 11, 2006, 03:32 AM
 
4% vs 30%

In the US 4% of all college grads get engineering degrees. In India 30% of all college grads get engineering degrees.
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silentfeet  (op)
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Mar 11, 2006, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by silentfeet

"made by Americans for Americans"?

Just a quick note folks, when I wrote the above quote, I did not mean that only Americans should be allowed to use Macs to the exclusion of everyone else - so apologies offered to anyone offended. What I meant by this statement is that I long for the days when an domestic company used domestic workers to manufacture and SUPPORT its products, instead of out sourcing to another country. Further, I completely understand the economic reasons for doing so. And it stinks! The widespread policy of out sourcing, while economically sound for the company that is practicing it has NEVER been a sign of economic soundness for the indigenous population from which a company is headquartered, IMHO. But, please let's not get into a discussion of ecomonmics.

Suffice it to say that I have had very negative experiences with tech support from a variety of productst on coming from India. So, naturally I am not going to celebrate Apples decision to build a large tech support cite in Bangalore, and hire 1500 people, when Apple, centered here in Cupertino, CA, USA, about 5 miles from where I live, could be hiring Americans. We have poor people right here in Cupertino that could use a job, too. That's all I have to say about it. I have enjoyed reading everyone's responses. God bless you all!
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Mar 11, 2006, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
The US is getting its ass handed to it in the areas of Science and Math, which is a shame since our government doesn't really seem to have an agenda that would improve...
You already have one "my penis is bigger than yours" thread in the PL lounge. No need to REPEAT it twice making a redundancy, while making this one into another contest for you to pound your chest about.

It's got rather silly in the other thread.

I know you have demanded them to move said thread BACK into this part of the forum, and this is just another lame attempt by you to "show the mods"
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Mar 11, 2006, 12:44 PM
 
The real story here is not necessarily the outsourcing. Customer Service is always going to be a cost center for a company like Apple, and if they can keep up an acceptable level of service by outsourcing support call to India, then as a shareholder I say, go for it! Americans probably don't want those types of jobs anyway. I believe that the notion of "cheaper" jobs in foreign countries is going to go away eventually, anyway. As everything gets more globalized, eventually it will be hard to find cheap labor anywhere. I really need to read that silly "the world is flat" book.

But if CharlesS's story is any indication, the real outrage here is that companies don't feel the need to provide adequate customer service at all anymore. Cost seems to be their only metric, and if they manage to ailenate a customer because of bad customer service, that's OK, because they're concentrating more on getting new customers than keeping their old ones! After all, they already have their money from the original sale, so what does it matter if they ailenate the customer afterwards? I don't care if the call center is in Bangalore, Bangkok, or Bangor, Maine. But I do want my issues addressed promptly, and by someone who can help me and not just waste my time.
     
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Mar 11, 2006, 02:00 PM
 
FApple?
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Mar 11, 2006, 08:38 PM
 
My philosophy in business has always been this:

"The only goal of the company is to obtain and retain a customer. Everything else comes automatically."

It works. I wish more companies followed this philosophy.
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Mar 12, 2006, 02:12 PM
 
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...403861,00.html

A somewhat interesting and related article. The call-center agents in India not just speak English, they are even trained to have an American personality.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 02:20 PM
 
Amway
     
turtle777
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Mar 12, 2006, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
The call-center agents in India not just speak English, they are even trained to have an American personality.
Pfff, not the ones I had the pleasure to deal with. They mostly read of their script, and don't understand really what's going on.

One time, I had an issue that was NOT resolved. I made it clear that I was extremely unhappy.
Ending the call, the call center guy said "Well, I hope that we provided excellent service for you today and that all of your issues where resolved."

WTF ?

-t
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Amway
Poor guy. He's in for a rude awakening...

-t
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...403861,00.html

A somewhat interesting and related article. The call-center agents in India not just speak English, they are even trained to have an American personality.
I actually met one of these call-center employees when I was in India. The guy I met spoke nearly perfect English, better than mine (which isn't really saying much). He already had a western type of personality, which most of the young call-center techs already have. These call-centers have started a new sort of culture among their employees. They pay their employees well, provide everything they need.. including car transport from their homes to work. With all the money they earn, they have plenty to spend in cafes, smoking, and acting American. They definitely don't need to be trained to have an American personality.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 04:04 PM
 
Maybe the Indian callcenter agent sounds a bit odd and gives you all the wrong answers. But that happens with local call centers too, I did that work a year ago and was confronted with much too difficult questions from day 1. I bumped into fellow dutchmen with inaudible accents too. Routinely working down a chart and relying on a welltrained second/third line is how it goes. It's surprising how fast you learn in an environment like a callcenter, I bet the Indians are under a lot of pressure to score.
( Last edited by PB2K; Mar 12, 2006 at 04:36 PM. )
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Mar 12, 2006, 04:16 PM
 
I deal with Dell and HP support daily. Both companies outsource to Bangalore and sometimes it can be a real slog to get through their scripts.

I know the script better than some of the guys I deal with, others are perfect, no messing about, 2 mins and we're at the "ok, here's the reference number, an engineer will be dispatched".

I've never had to phone Apple (touch wood) with any of my own stuff and we don't have any clients that use macs here at work so I've had no experience with their support.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Albert Pujols
I actually met one of these call-center employees when I was in India. The guy I met spoke nearly perfect English, better than mine (which isn't really saying much). He already had a western type of personality, which most of the young call-center techs already have. These call-centers have started a new sort of culture among their employees. They pay their employees well, provide everything they need.. including car transport from their homes to work. With all the money they earn, they have plenty to spend in cafes, smoking, and acting American. They definitely don't need to be trained to have an American personality.
If it's giving people from other places a chance to thrive, I am all for it. THIS will do more for spreading democracy and good deeds than anything.

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Albert Pujols
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Mar 12, 2006, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
If it's giving people from other places a chance to thrive, I am all for it. THIS will do more for spreading democracy and good deeds than anything.

If they see their check is coming from the Evil Satan, the Satan may not be as evil anymore.
The thing about India is, it's already a democracy. Most educated Indians have a positive view of America. Maybe not our current politics, but a positive view of America as a country.
     
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Mar 12, 2006, 05:36 PM
 
I didn't mean India in general...
     
aberdeenwriter
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen, WA
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Mar 12, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
I didn't mean India in general...
Exactly. The un-democratized nations in the region will have an opportunity to see the world's largest liberal democracy, (which is what India is) benefitting from their choice of system of government as their economies grow in leaps and bounds.

See, most any liberal democracy with a low enough standard of living can, theoretically, jump on the gravy train.

However, as interesting as India will be to watch develop, let's also see what happens with China, which is growing even faster than India. Let's see if they resist or ease into a form of liberal democracy ( ) to complement their terrific capitalistic growth.
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