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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Are Canada and the United States losing their Identities?

Are Canada and the United States losing their Identities? (Page 7)
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Wiskedjak
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Dec 25, 2010, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Go pull the stats and find out.
*You're* the ones claiming flood by buy in. Unless you can present some data to prove it, I call BS.
( Last edited by Wiskedjak; Dec 25, 2010 at 09:53 AM. )
     
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Dec 25, 2010, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
We've been "flooded" with people who can pay $800,000 out of pocket to enter the country? I think you've been reading too many conservative manifestos.
What the hell? Can you show me a single conservative that thinks our problems with immigration (in the US and Canada) come from immigrants that have too much money?

Sorry Wiskedjak, but if you're going to take a cheap shot at conservatism at least make the premise believable. And take responsibility for your own - Athens is not even close to conservative ideals in this thread or in any other.
     
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Dec 26, 2010, 12:06 AM
 
I get the feeling that Athens has never met an immigrant, besides the ones who rear-end him.
     
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Dec 26, 2010, 07:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
A nation needs immigrants to survive economically and socially. If you put such a high minimum on the amount required to get into the country, there will be no young growth, only older wealthy, declining, investors. There are quite a few countries experiencing this right now. In 15 years, they'll be screwed. I'd love to move to Vancouver, but there is no way in heck that I can afford to pay $50,000 to simply enter the country.
I never once said we need to limit the skilled class. I only suggested that when bringing noncontributing members of family over through the family sponsorship method that a tax is required on those people who will never pay a cent into the social systems they will be using to end their lives here. $120 000 for 2 parents is nothing compared to a average house cost of $600 000. If they can take a loan out for a house why cant they take a loan out to bring parents over?
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 26, 2010, 07:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
*You're* the ones claiming flood by buy in. Unless you can present some data to prove it, I call BS.
how many times do the stats have to be reposted over and over. Go read the posts already in this treat which links to stats that back up the claims.
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Dec 26, 2010, 07:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I get the feeling that Athens has never met an immigrant, besides the ones who rear-end him.
ROFL

80% of my friends are immigrants, good 20% of the people I work with are immigrants, and 90% of the people I interact with in any given day are immigrants.

Lets look at where you live
Colorado Springs city, Colorado - ACS Demographic and Housing Estimates: 2006-2008

Almost 90% of Colorado Springs is made up of White/black and native people let alone over seas visible ethnic minorities which don't exactly represent immigrants either. So whats Colorado Springs immigration numbers, less then 1%? The question is have you ever meet one.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 26, 2010, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So, how many people have "flooded" into Vancouver via the $800,000 route?
Facts and figures 2009 – Immigration overview: Permanent and temporary residents

Here is the 2009 numbers

Total Number for 2009 was 227 455 Immigrants

Of that the Entrepreneurs, Self Employed and Investors make up 12159, not a big number but you look at the 10 year totals 125,900.



Parents and Grandparents represent another 175,000

Skilled labour makes up the largest chunk but it also leads to the largest chunk of spouse and Dependants too.

2009 only 40,735 skilled workers immigrated here, also brought in 55,227 spouses and dependents.

With the bulk of immigrants going to either Toronto and Vancouver and the majority of Asian immigrants going to Vancouver thats a extra 100 000 people over the last 10 years in Vancouver under the buy in class, prob double that when you include spouses and dependents. Skilled workers class is more even through out the country.

2009 Numbers
65,200 through Family Class.
154,498 though Economic Class.
22,846 through refugee class.

Immigrants by Province for 2009

Newfoundland - 603 Immigrants for the entire province.
Prince Edward Island - 1,723
Nova Scotia - 2,424
New Brunswick - 1,913
Quebec - 49,493
Ontario - 106,867
Manitoba - 13,520
Saskatchewan - 6,890
Alberta - 27,017
BC - 41,438
Yukon - 174
NWT - 107
Nanavut - 10 (this surprised me, I had expected zero)

Toronto received - 82,644
Vancouver received - 34,626

Vancouver, a city of 600 000 excluding the metro had more immigrants then the entire provinces and territories of Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Yukon, NWT, Nanavut combined. While Toronto got triple the number, Toronto is also 7 times larger in area and quadrupole in population. The immigration numbers don't break down locations but Toronto gets more from Europe while Vancouver gets more from Asia.

Calgary got 13,708 immigrants. So a City with 988 000 people and a area of 280 sq miles got 13, 708 immigrants while Vancouver a city of 578 000 people in a area of 44 sq miles got 34,626

Thats 1 Immigrant for every 78 people in Calgary. Thats 48 immigrants per sq mile of the city.

Vancouver averages out 1 immigrant for every 16 people and 786 immigrants per sq mile of the city.

These are one year stats for 2009. Its accumulative. Of those 1 immigrant for every 16 people in Vancouver, almost half of them are previous years immigrants.

The numbers dilute a bit for both Calgary and Vancouver when you factor in the Metro's. The Stats on the government site don't say if its Vancouver proper or Metro Vancouver. 10 years of immigration puts a number of 340000 in Vancouver which prob includes Metro Vancouver. Thats almost the entire population of Colorado Springs worth of immigration in one urban location over 10 years.

Revised Numbers using Metro Populations and area for Calgary and Vancouver

Metro Vancouver 2,116,581 people, 1111.4 sq miles = 1 immigrant for every 61 people or 31 immigrants for every sq mile.
Metro Calgary 1,079,310 people, 1972 sq miles = 1 immigrant for every 78 people or 6 immigrants for every sq miles.

10 Year numbers

Metro Vancouver = 1 immigrant for every 6 people in Metro Vancouver, or 315 immigrants for every sq mile
Metro Calgary = 1 immigrant for every 10 people in Metro Calgary, or 53 immigrants for every sq mile.

Vancouver has 6 times more immigrants per sq mile then Calgary so its a lot more noticeable here.
( Last edited by Athens; Dec 26, 2010 at 08:38 AM. )
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Dec 28, 2010, 08:35 PM
 
Suspected targeted knife attack outside Vietnamese restaurant in Vancouver:

Man repeatedly stabbed in brawl outside Vancouver restaurant
     
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Dec 29, 2010, 05:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Suspected targeted knife attack outside Vietnamese restaurant in Vancouver:

Man repeatedly stabbed in brawl outside Vancouver restaurant
Oklahoma man says wife's death was sex fantasy accident - CNN.com
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Dec 29, 2010, 06:38 AM
 
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Wiskedjak
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Dec 29, 2010, 09:32 AM
 
Right. So, those are the raw immigration numbers. How many of those immigrants were "Buy Ins"?
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 29, 2010, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Suspected targeted knife attack outside Vietnamese restaurant in Vancouver:

Man repeatedly stabbed in brawl outside Vancouver restaurant
Husband charged after wife's throat slashed on vacation
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 29, 2010, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Right. So, those are the raw immigration numbers. How many of those immigrants were "Buy Ins"?
The numbers of buy in's where posted in the post you quoted this from
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Dec 29, 2010, 12:34 PM
 
Again, why are people posting murders and attempted murders from the US and from Jamaica? We already know their is high violent crime rates in the US, and this Jamaican one is a complete mystery here?
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Dec 29, 2010, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
While I agree that the duty of every immigrant is to assimilate into their new host country by learning the primary language and customs your argument as to why that should be the case and how the culture is supposed to remain static around all that is stupid.
[/thread]
I should have just stopped reading at this post...sadly I made it to the second page.

The "bucket list" of acceptable/unacceptable things was hilarious though. 90% of which are committed by people of every race/colour/creed/etc. in North America. Awesome.

Wait, isn't that somewhere in the definition of xenophobia?
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Dec 29, 2010, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
[/thread]
I should have just stopped reading at this post...sadly I made it to the second page.

The "bucket list" of acceptable/unacceptable things was hilarious though. 90% of which are committed by people of every race/colour/creed/etc. in North America. Awesome.

Wait, isn't that somewhere in the definition of xenophobia?
Xenophobia does not apply here because not one has a hatred or fear of foreigners or immigrants politics and culture. The issue is about unbalanced immigration which affects everyone including already established immigrants and those from other countries that are of a greater disadvantage. Should have kept reading through every page.
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Wiskedjak
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Dec 29, 2010, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
The numbers of buy in's where posted in the post you quoted this from
What are the buy ins listed as?
     
Wiskedjak
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Dec 29, 2010, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Again, why are people posting murders and attempted murders from the US and from Jamaica? We already know their is high violent crime rates in the US, and this Jamaican one is a complete mystery here?
If you read the article, you'll see that it was a Canadian man with a very European name, who is accused of slashing his wife while on vacation.

Do crimes committed by Canadian while temporarily outside of Canada not count?
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 29, 2010, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Xenophobia does not apply here because not one has a hatred or fear of foreigners or immigrants politics and culture.
And yet you you want to fine two people "jabbering away in Punjabi at the local 7-11"...fascinating
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Dec 29, 2010, 11:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
If you read the article, you'll see that it was a Canadian man with a very European name, who is accused of slashing his wife while on vacation.

Do crimes committed by Canadian while temporarily outside of Canada not count?
1) Canadian man, how long as a citizen? Was he born here?
2) Just proves the point that was made before, we have enough crime as it is with out IMPORTING more Thank you for your contributions.
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imitchellg5
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Dec 29, 2010, 11:16 PM
 
Say, did you ever read that Wikipedia article about straw men?
     
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Dec 29, 2010, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
And yet you you want to fine two people "jabbering away in Punjabi at the local 7-11"...fascinating
Actually I rather they be written up for not doing there job respectfully and a second offence dismissed to allow for respectful people. Fascinating indeed Mr Spoke.
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Dec 29, 2010, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Say, did you ever read that Wikipedia article about straw men?
No I didn't, I looked at it, skimmed through but wasn't in a good state to actually read it. I'll give it a look when my pain meds start to lose effect.
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Dec 30, 2010, 03:38 PM
 
I think racism is just below the surface ready to explode. I've been testing the waters in the last couple weeks since I made this post with friends and co-workers. My opinions on the immigration issues have been pretty silent thus far between other people out of fear of being branded a racist when im not. But since im moving I've added things in conversations with people about how I like a certain area because its mostly white just to gage reactions and so far every time now a discussion has come on about it and im finding that almost every one around me has even deeper opinions on immigration then I do some of them actually sounding racist which I would have never expected out of many of them. A couple co-workers actually started aggravating me with how they where talking about immigrants. I mean there is pointing out flaws in our system and some of the issues due to immigrants and its another thing just to be attacking them and spitefully for the sake of doing it. I really do think we are going to hit a boiling point in the next decade and have a real problem. I hope im wrong, I don't want to see idiots out there beating up immigrants just because they are a immigrant and doing worse things but I really do see it coming.
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Dec 30, 2010, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
But since im moving I've added things in conversations with people about how I like a certain area because its mostly white just to gage reactions
Quote for Hilarity Purposes
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Dec 30, 2010, 04:40 PM
 
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Dec 31, 2010, 01:13 AM
 
Quebec has some elements right with its language laws. Je me souviens.
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Ich lach mich schlapp.

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Jan 5, 2011, 07:37 AM
 
Breaking news: foreigners with foreign names bring drugs to Canada
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Jan 5, 2011, 10:05 PM
 
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 5, 2011, 10:19 PM
 
That's clearly irrelevant, since the story is about an American committing a crime in the US.

The Mexican drug trafficker *is* relevant to the topic of the dangers of immigrants to Canada since it's about a Mexican national ... oh, wait
     
freudling
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Jan 5, 2011, 10:49 PM
 
If you haven't noticed, we've been on topic for Canada. Remember, an actual country outside of the US, that is actually different, politically, and socially.

Oooooooh, aaaaaaaah.
     
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Jan 6, 2011, 03:22 PM
 
What about foreigners with foreign names who kill people? Are they responsible for bringing killing to Canada?

I'm having some serious trouble seeing your point here regarding this story about the drug trafficking. What is it?

greg
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Jan 6, 2011, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
If you haven't noticed, we've been on topic for Canada. Remember, an actual country outside of the US, that is actually different, politically, and socially.

Oooooooh, aaaaaaaah.
Dude, the topic was both Canada and the US not just Canada. The point of the thread was to examine the current problem in Vancouver which clearly shows how to much immigration and more importantly to much unbalanced immigration causes problems. Its a warning of what problems other locations could start seeing over the next couple decades unless policies change. For Canada, and mostly Vancouver right now its Asians, for southern US states its Mexicans. This was not a Canada only thread....

That said the post being replied to was utterly useless.
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Jan 6, 2011, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
If you haven't noticed, we've been on topic for Canada. Remember, an actual country outside of the US, that is actually different, politically, and socially.

Oooooooh, aaaaaaaah.
I thought we were talking about Asians? WTF does Mexican nationals have anything to do with Asians? Last time I check, Mexicans with the name Victor Perez Rodriguez aren't Asians.

And you other link about someone getting slashed outside of a Vietnamese restaurant. So Asians are to be blamed cause someone got slashed outside a Vietnamese restaurant? What if someone got slashed outside an Italian restaurant? Or a Starbucks? Or a McDonalds?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
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Jan 6, 2011, 08:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
I thought we were talking about Asians? WTF does Mexican nationals have anything to do with Asians? Last time I check, Mexicans with the name Victor Perez Rodriguez aren't Asians.

And you other link about someone getting slashed outside of a Vietnamese restaurant. So Asians are to be blamed cause someone got slashed outside a Vietnamese restaurant? What if someone got slashed outside an Italian restaurant? Or a Starbucks? Or a McDonalds?
No its a topic of to much immigration and more importantly to much of one kind of immigration. For Vancouver thats Asians. For Southern US States its Mexicans. For Germany its the Turks.

Additional Notes on this topic.

Canada
Main article: Immigration to Canada
Canada has the highest per capita net immigration rate in the world,[28] driven by economic policy and family reunification, and is aiming for between 240,000 and 265,000 new permanent residents in 2010.[29] In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada. Newcomers settle mostly in the major urban areas of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Since the 1990s, the majority of Canada's immigrants have come from Asia.[25] A third of all immigrants to Canada come from just three Asian countries – China, Philippines and India.[30] Accusing a person of racism in Canada is usually considered a serious slur.[31] All political parties are now cautious about criticizing of the high level of immigration, because, as noted by the Globe and Mail, "in the early 1990s, the old Reform Party was branded 'racist' for suggesting that immigration levels be lowered from 250,000 to 150,000."[32]


Recent surveys by Gallup found roughly 700 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance. The United States is the top desired destination country. Nearly one-quarter (24%) of these respondents, which translates to more than 165 million adults worldwide, name the United States as their desired future residence. With an additional estimated 45 million saying they would like to move to Canada, Northern America is one of the two most desired regions.

You think we could handle this many people, 210 million people wanting to move to North America? More people want to move to Canada then there are people in Canada. Enough people want to move to the US that represents over half the US population.
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Jan 6, 2011, 08:59 PM
 
Indo-Canadians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vancouver
Around 20% of the entire Indian Community in Canada resides in Vancouver. Settlement by Indians has occurred increasingly since the point system was introduced to allow immigrants into Canada. Initially, most Indians moved to cities close to Vancouver International Airport such as Abbotsford; Burnaby; Richmond; and Surrey. Over the past two decades however, more Indians have been moving to areas outside of Metro Vancouver.
The highest density concentrations of Indo-Canadians can be found in Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Richmond, Abbotsford and Delta. The Punjabi Market neighborhood of south Vancouver it considered the city's "Little India" and has a particularly high concentration of Indian residents, shops and restaurants.
By far the largest number of Indo-Canadians within Vancouver are of Punjabi Sikh origin. However, there are sizeable populations with other ethnic backgrounds, including Gujarati, Tamil, Kannadigas, Malayalees, Bengali, Urdu, and Sindhi.

Filipino Canadian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Metro Vancouver
Vancouver is home to the second largest Filipino community in Canada with nearly 94,000 Filipinos residing there. Filipinos in Vancouver make up the third largest Asian Canadian and visible minority group behind the Chinese and East Indians. Most of British Columbia's 94,000 Filipinos reside in the Greater Vancouver Area where the jobs are concentrated. About 1 out of 5 Filipinos in Canada call Metro Vancouver home. They contribute to the city's economy greatly like many of the Asian-Canadians. Vancouver is also home to the only branches of Goldilocks Bakeshop in Canada with 2 as of 2008. It is the only city in the country served by Philippine Airlines.

Chinese Canadian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vancouver British Columbia 402,000

Language
In 2001, 87% of Chinese reported having a conversational knowledge of at least one official language, while 15% reported that they could speak neither English nor French. Of those who could not speak an official language, 50% immigrated to Canada in the 1990s, while 22% immigrated in the 1980s. These immigrants tended to be in the older age groups. Of prime working-age Chinese immigrants, 89% reported knowing at least one official language

I really want to know what the 2010 stats are on language because it sure the hell does not feel like 87% have conversational knowledge. Then again its self reporting so many of them prob think its conversational knowledge not realizing the people they are talking to are nodding and smiling not really understanding lol
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Jan 6, 2011, 09:24 PM
 
How is a Mexican drug trafficker an example of the problems with immigration?
     
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Jan 6, 2011, 09:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
And you other link about someone getting slashed outside of a Vietnamese restaurant. So Asians are to be blamed cause someone got slashed outside a Vietnamese restaurant? What if someone got slashed outside an Italian restaurant? Or a Starbucks? Or a McDonalds?
Only Asians can be found outside Asian restaurants.
     
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Jan 6, 2011, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Only Asians can be found outside Asian restaurants.
I wouldn't say thats true. I eat more Asian then any thing else and so do most of my non Asian friends too. It really depends on the actual restaurant because some of them really make non (there own ethnicity) people un welcomed.
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I wouldn't say thats true. I eat more Asian then any thing else and so do most of my non Asian friends too. It really depends on the actual restaurant because some of them really make non (there own ethnicity) people un welcomed.
Then, how is an article about an incident outside of a Vietnamese restaurant an example of the problems of immigration?
     
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Jan 7, 2011, 01:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Then, how is an article about an incident outside of a Vietnamese restaurant an example of the problems of immigration?
Ask the poster of it, I dont see any point in posting every news article of immigrant violence being positive to the point of the thread. A few examples was enough. I suspect it didn't have anything to do with the restaurant he was pointing to, but the people involved in the attack itself being immigrants. Just happen to be a Vietnamese restaurant where it occurred. If it had been a Pizza hut with a incident involving immigrants outside I think you would have focused on the assault not the location.
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Jan 7, 2011, 07:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Ask the poster of it, I dont see any point in posting every news article of immigrant violence being positive to the point of the thread. A few examples was enough.
Your comments in this thread are so stupid it's giving me a headache and our great nation of Canada a black eye.

Can you not see that examples of immigrant violence are completely irrelevant? That for every example of immigrant violence, I can give you 2 examples of violent actions by someone born and bred in Canada?

Astonishing.
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Jan 7, 2011, 10:16 AM
 
Speaking of stupid, someone needs to review the signature guidelines.
     
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Jan 7, 2011, 10:35 AM
 
You're lucky it wasn't animated.
( Last edited by osiris; Jan 7, 2011 at 11:40 AM. )
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Jan 7, 2011, 10:36 AM
 
You must ALL KNOW ABOUT MY LAPTOP AND ITS SUB-PAR PERFORMANCE.

     
Athens  (op)
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Your comments in this thread are so stupid it's giving me a headache and our great nation of Canada a black eye.

Can you not see that examples of immigrant violence are completely irrelevant? That for every example of immigrant violence, I can give you 2 examples of violent actions by someone born and bred in Canada?

Astonishing.
Yes thats great, thats the point, thats exactly the POINT. We have more then enough violence already that we DONT need to import MORE from people not suitable for immigration due to lack of proper background checks and lack of education training on how things are different here.

The posting of immigrant violence is valid, Vancouver has some of the worst crime rates in Canada, easily matching US crime rates and a lot of it is traced to legal and illegal immigration. If a better job was done screening people, and deporting illegals we might be near par with the Average crime rates.

Most of the gangs and gang violence is Korean, Chinese, East Indian and Mexican gangs. There isn't any violence coming out of the First Nation gangs or established groups like Hells Angels. The exception to this a few years ago was with the red scorpions getting into a spat with South Asian gangs.

Even if the number is as low as 30% of Metro Vancouvers murders over the last 4 years, its def higher then that have been at the hands of Immigrants gangs. This excludes the murders from cultural killings such as a husband killing wife or brother killing brother over family disputes. Our violent crime rates would actually be on par with the Canadian Average. But then again maybe its just due to numbers. With over 65% of the city being immigrant populations just more chances of them being killed or killing I guess...

A large portion of drugs entering the entering the country through Vancouver and a large portion of the availably of drugs in Vancouver excluding pot are coming from immigrant gangs.



CBC News - British Columbia - Stepfather faces 2 murder charges in Surrey shooting

A Surrey man is facing charges of murder and attempted murder after his two teenage stepsons were killed and his wife was seriously injured in a townhouse shooting Sunday.
The family recently moved to Canada from India in the fall, according to friends and neighbours.

out of 115 murders in Metro Vancouver in and the Valley over 2009 and 2010 6 immigrant families had cultural related murders with the family being gun downed or members of the family being murdered because of silly things like a woman refusing to marry her arranged husband.

That national average across the rest of Canada for family murders was around the same number from mentally ill family members.

Most of the recent gay bashings downtown have been East Indians. Most of the street racing deaths have been from Asians. No other city in Canada suffers these problems and no other city in Canada has a issue of disproportional immigration numbers.

This is the results of unbalanced un proportional immigration. It needs to be fixed.
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ShortcutToMoncton
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Jan 7, 2011, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Yes thats great, thats the point, thats exactly the POINT. We have more then enough violence already that we DONT need to import MORE from people not suitable for immigration due to lack of proper background checks and lack of education training on how things are different here.
But this is a completely different argument now.

You're not arguing against "unproportional, unbalanced immigration" - you're saying that some immigrants haven't had proper checks and/or education.

Or is that what you mean? That our current rate of immigration is okay, as long as better screening processes are put in place?

Most of the recent gay bashings downtown have been East Indians. Most of the street racing deaths have been from Asians. No other city in Canada suffers these problems
Uhhh, what?

Plenty of other major cities in Canada "suffers" those problems.
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